More Proposed Board Changes & Group Discussion

suzycupcake

Hello Ladies,

This is a list of 5 things as well as a few miscellaneous items at the end, noticed by either myself, long timers, or newbies that I believe are important things to discuss. Hopefully you will not feel exhausted by the time you get to the end. These things have been mentioned either on the board or within the private messaging system. It would be great if we could discuss them and figure out together what we should do about them, or maybe there are some we won't be able to agree on. After we discuss these things and get everyones' input, we could bring each thing to a poll individually. 

1. Proposed change to the TTGP Grad threads: 

-The rules currently stated in the Ultimate Newbie Guide, "Once you get your Big Fat Positive test (BFP), the appropriate place to post is in the weekly Graduation Thread". There are no criteria mentioned.

-The rules currently stated in the weekly grad threads, 
1. Ask your heart if you have contributed positively here.
2. Do these people know you? Will they be happy about your pregnancy? 
3. Have you offered support to others or have you just blasted your own info out there?
4. Really, if you're a 1/1 or a 2/2, maybe just move on. Even if you have participated daily for one month and offered tons of support. Sometimes the silence is kindest. Those of us who lurk BMBs will see your intro and PM/comment/love tit.
5. Again, take a moment and step away from your excitement and ask your heart if posting would be potentially hurtful.

Problem: The rules in the weekly grad threads contradicts the rules in the Ultimate Newbie Guide. The instructions in the weekly threads mention that if you have participated daily for one month and offered tons of support, then sometimes silence is kindest. First, people are getting called out for being here for a few months and posting in the grad threads even though they meet the criteria for 1, 2, and 3. Second, "sometimes" the silence is kindest is too subjective, no offense intended towards anyone. 

Possible solutions:
A. Stick with the original rule as stated in the Ultimate Newbie Guide and change the grad thread language to reflect it. 
B. Change the wording in the weekly grad threads to reflect current board culture. 
C. Create two separate weekly grad threads; one for <6 cycles grads and one for >6 cycles grads


2. Proposed change to Benched/TTA threads:

Problem: There are women who come to TTGP who are waiting to start TTC because they are trying to get used to tracking/learning their bodies, etc.. They want to be a part of the board, but don't feel like they fit in anywhere. There are some members who feel they have no business posting on TTGP period since TTGP stands for Trying To Get Pregnant and instead, that these ladies should be directed to the Babies On The Brain board. They see the Benched/TTA as a thread for women who are benched or TTA for reasons beyond their control. 

Possible Solution: One member has suggested putting in direct language in the Benched/TTA thread on BOTB, including a link to that board as well as a collective move and effort to help make that board more active, or starting a weekly BOTB thread here at TTGP so they feel they have a place to fit in.  

3. Proposed change to WTO/TWW threads:

Ultimate Newbie Guide says, "You do not need a TW for topics such as children, general pregnancy, etc." based on this poll https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12682740/tw-poll-results-posted/p1. 

TTGP has acquired a TFAS weekly thread.

Problem: It has been brought up that adding the blurb at the top of the WTO/TWW threads was added but never voted on in the past. Some members feel they cannot talk about their children outside of the TFAS thread without being called out and have a very difficult time determining when to use a TW with spoiler/when not to.

Possible Solution: Discuss it and go to poll


4. Proposed change to minimize subjectivism on members starting their own threads:

Ultimate Guide says, "Otherwise, if you have a general question for the whole community, it may be better suited to start a new thread." 

Problem: Many members don't know when it's okay to do this and when it isn't.

Possible Solution: Discuss and go to poll. Then decide on the language that tells members when it is/isn't okay and where to put this. 


5. Proposed change to direct members who got their BFP:

Problem: Many women don't know where to go when they have graduated from TTGP and their BMB isn't opened up for weeks at a time, but they still want to participate.

Possible Solution: Direct them to another active board while they wait. Discuss which one and where to include the link to it on TTGP. 


6. Miscellaneous contradictions/issues to discuss in which I don't have ideas for possible solutions:

A. I've had many newbie members/non IF members come to me to ask advice about IF/long time members so that they can understand our plight/anxiety/frustration better in order to be more respectful. I've also had many come having an issue with what they deem as a lack of gentle/kind redirect on the boards when they don't understand what it's like and make a potentially hurtful statement that they cannot possibly know that it would be hurtful. 

B. Ultimate Newbie Guide contains a link to TB's Welcome New Members that instructs newbies to create their own intro thread, but Ultimate Guide says to do it in the weekly intro threads.

C. Ultimate Newbie Guide says, "Please do not post your BFP in the TWW thread" but If You Could Tell A Newbie Anything Thread (linked within Guide) says that announcing BFPs in the TWW thread is okay. 

holly321

1. I think every contributing member should be allowed to post bfp's. But, I get not wanting to see a new members sometimes.  Back in the olden days, you make your own individual thread.   I have mixed feelings about the 2 separate threads (like what qualifies as 6 months, like I stated in the past I have been around for a long long time,but have barely been actually trying.)  But, I also hate to see another poster ignored for their bfp when someone who has been trying longer posts. 
2.  I fortunately no longer belong in the benched/tta thread, but it needs to change.  I agree with the botb redirect, or have a weekly botb check in?
3. Is a tw necessary? 
I have two kids, as most of you know, so, maybe my opinion is not the best.... But I think the inability to mention children is ridiculous scrict. I also personally struggle with tfas since I am not in the same place as most of the women there considering my kids are school aged. 
4. Tough one.  Some subjects deserve/need their own thread.  I think the scrictness that has changed around here lately is hurting thwboard and why we have less members than in the past.
5/6 I have no true opinions 

suzycupcake

Edit because I thought holly didn't see my edit but I read it wrong. 

zamoraspin

I'm fine with discussing changes in an open forum and do think rule changes should be approached that way. I agree with @lulu1180's comments in the Newbie thread both generally and also specifically that it is not super easy to get the BG's to unsticky the existing thread and sticky a new one (which is what would need to happen, we would need to get the existing one un-stickied and start a completely new thread with all the rules, old and new). This is why it's often good for people to lurk some - board culture can and does change over time, and if you lurk a bit you can usually figure out norms, even if they aren't rules that are written in the Newbie Guide thread. 

Anyway, to the points in this post: 
1. Grad Thread -- I actually do not see anything wrong with the difference you pointed out as between the Newbie Guide and the Grad thread instructions itself. In theory, any literate person should see that instruction to post in the weekly Grad thread, go to that Grad thread, see the instructions there, and realize that actually they should not post if they have not been participating for a while if they exercise their own common sense. It also does not strictly exclude people who, by that same common sense should post in the grad thread. *TW loss - for example, we often have members who come back to TTGP after loss, and/or are benched for a long while due to medical reasons, participate for a long while, and then when they are allowed to try again they get ku somewhat quickly. So if we make it a hard rule everywhere we then either exclude those people or have to further explain when it is ok to post, when really, come on, it's common sense. end TW* I guess two grad threads is a compromise but it seems needlessly complicated. Believe me, everyone here wants to be an a BMB, and once you get to go to one there will be lots of celebrating there. Plus, if you've made an impression on people on TTGP, however, short the time, you will get congratulated either by an LT on your BMB intro or a PM. If you don't, well, I guess there wasn't a lot of impact from your stay here. 
2. Benched/TTA Thread - I'm a little confused on what is being suggested as to this thread. However, I want to say very clearly that I do not think it's appropriate for people who are not trying yet/belong on BOTB to post in that thread. Again, to me this is common sense. The pp'ers in that thread are doing things like battling cancer, have a partner battling cancer, waiting to try again after a heartbreaking loss, etc. I am kind of horrified that people who just want to drink on their upcoming vacation, or whatever, have been encouraged to post on that thread. People who are unwillingly benched/TTA really need a safe space to share. I personally don't have a problem with people who are more BOTB participating in GTKY threads, randoms, cs/q, or whatever, but I don't think that the benched/TTA thread should be undermined in the way it has been. 

Ok, actually I'm too tired to address the rest right now. 

holly321

@suzycupcake, you had my slightly drunk self very confused!  

suzycupcake

@holly321 It seems we are on the same train lately. I'm on my second glass. All aboard!  

dpjennifer

1.      An updated Newbie Guide would be best, but agree with PP that TBG can make it very difficult to unsticky and resticky things. Which is annoying because this group changes a lot. I think the big problem here is that everyone wants to come in and participate during their first TWW, be the special person who gets KU right away, and then post on the grad thread and get all of the kudos. And that happens. But those people are going to get all of the love and support from social media and their families, so it really is kindest to just silently disappear in the night. Again, if you made that big of an impact on people, they WILL find you and congratulate you another way.

2.      Can we have the Benched/TTA thread continue as it was meant to be (for those medically benched or TTA for valid reasons, like we had a member whose husband was deployed off and on who would go there occasionally). Then, maybe we can have a monthly Pre-TTGP board? I understand that many people want the wisdom and advice on this board and are excited for their journey, and maybe we don’t need to direct all of them. If there are enough people interested in a thread prior to them actually trying (or a place for people to ‘sit out’ if they want to drink or something), then maybe they should have a thread.

3.      As for TW for live children. I’m sorry if I offend all of those with LC, but you get to tout the greatness of your babies for the entire world to know in every aspect of your life. You get to flaunt them and have them seen EVERYWHERE. Speaking as someone who’s had multiple MC and is a few short months away from living childless not by choice… I get to see those babies and happy families and children touted EVERYWHERE I go. I’d rather not have them mentioned in these posts ever if I had a choice. I prefer to have those 2 letters, because even though I tend to read everything, it gives me a fraction of a second to steel my heart against having a breakdown.
Additionally, why is it ok to force me to TW my MC and MY Babies/children because it makes YOU uncomfortable, if it is ok to flaunt your children in my face?

4.      Honestly, I think it’d be better to have a thing where nobody can post their own threads unless they’ve been here 6+ months or were directed by more than 1 regular member to do so when the question was asked in a regular thread. But, maybe I’m just too #BitterHagPartyOf1 after the last rant?

5.      BMB weren’t open for a while because people kept posting “I’m really hoping this is my month” on them and being a PIA while they couldn’t even test. People did this to themselves. TTGP is not the place for a “I’ve got a BFP and want to participate” thread. Maybe people who want to participate could start up a thread in the 1st Trimester board? A monthly “waiting room” before their BMB opens, as it were.

6.      A. I’m glad people have come to you to ask advice. I know I can seem very stand-offish, but I actually am very open to this. I’d rather people contact me and ask me about things. I think that as a community we’re going to have differences of opinion and that people are going to get hurt no matter what. It sort of is what it is. I don’t think there is a solution for this.
B. and C. Again, unless we can change the stickied post, these aren’t going to change.

KariAnn323

*lurking*

dpjennifer said:

3.      As for TW for live children. I’m sorry if I offend all of those with LC, but you get to tout the greatness of your babies for the entire world to know in every aspect of your life. You get to flaunt them and have them seen EVERYWHERE. Speaking as someone who’s had multiple MC and is a few short months away from living childless not by choice… I get to see those babies and happy families and children touted EVERYWHERE I go. I’d rather not have them mentioned in these posts ever if I had a choice. I prefer to have those 2 letters, because even though I tend to read everything, it gives me a fraction of a second to steel my heart against having a breakdown.
Additionally, why is it ok to force me to TW my MC and MY Babies/children because it makes YOU uncomfortable, if it is ok to flaunt your children in my face?

Frankly I can’t say it any better than @dpjennifer so I won’t even try

lurvleybunchococonuts

*lurking*
Just wanted to point out that @offtoneverland discovered that the BGs will unsticky a thread if you tag them in it but also report said thread requesting it be unstickied. 

marebear15

1. TTGP Grad thread
I think the way we have this thread set up right now is fine. People can read and use their own judgment. *TW* As for those who have left for a BMB and come back and get KU again, maybe we can change the wording of #4 to say "If you've only been here for a month, it's best just to move on. Even if you have participated daily and offered tons of support. Sometimes the silence is kindest. Those of us who lurk BMBs will see your intro and PM/comment/love tit." That way it doesn't matter if they are a 1/1 or a 7/7. Sometimes people join here having tried for several months, but if they've only been here 3 weeks, no one is going to know them very well.

2. Benched/TTA thread
I agree this should remain a strict group. I vote we add a weekly BOTB thread since the other board gets practically no traffic.

3. WTO/TWW threads + *TW for kids
We have the TFAS thread that we can talk about our children. I have no issues writing *TW before any mention of kids, but could we do away with the "has to be incredibly pertinent to the conversation and in a spoiler" rule? 

4. Members starting their own threads
Maybe we can ask members to ask in the Randoms thread if something is broad/weighty enough to warrant it's own thread. For example the Craft thread or the Instapot thread. If someone wants to make an entire thread devoted to a topic, they could mention it in the Randoms and if say 5 people say yes, or 10 people loveit, they can post. We aren't going to fix the one-offs though. Those will always be there to brighten a slow work day, lol.

5. KU members don't have BMB yet
I propose the 1st trimester thread. Sometimes the latest BMB also has a thread for the next month's, but that all depends on that particular board's atmosphere.

holly321

@dpjennifer, about TW, I am glad I read your opinion and does shed light.  I think that LC shouldn't be mentioned casually in dailies and such (eg, there was once a rant about running late because LO's shoes) but something's are pertinent, and I guess it is uncomfortable to mention.  But, I also think TW in general are a bit ridiculous, and definitely don't think TW is needed for mentioning Angel babies.  Now, details of a miscarriage, maybe.

harrierwife

Lots of great points brought up in here re: TW, etc., but the only real, full opinion I have worth voicing is about the Grad Thread. 

I think we need to strengthen the wording of the OP. It needs to be made clear that the thread is for contributing members only. That way, if someone that's been here for two weeks jumps in with their BFP its clear(er) that they're the a**hole rather than the subsequently posting members. There is a very specific culture on this board that is misrepresented at times, and I think that thread tends to be our weak spot to an outsider/new lurker. 

Honestly, when I was a brand new lurker, that thread would oftentimes make me cringe. 

EDITED TO ADD: I think that keeping it to contributing members only encourages participation on the board which is always a good thing. 

lcking82

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with putting TW and spoilers on mentions of  *TW*:

my kiddo.  

If it helps other folks out here, then I'm all for it.  

Re:  #1:  I think the way it's set up is fine.  As a "newbie" it made total sense to me.  

Re: #5:  Directing to first tri is fine --- they can post a pic of their pee-stick, talk about anxiety, and everything else right there.  

meatballs37

*TW*

I might be one of those weird members here who kinda half fits in. I will say for me personally I try and double and triple check where I am posting because I know what it is like when someone is insensitive. And I know the importance of it. But just some insight from my perspective...When I am posting in TFAS, I have to TW my two sons in heaven, who have names and we talk openly about at home. So it’s hard to switch gears when they are such a normal part of my life.

But when I am posting elsewhere I have to TW my DD. Who more than anything I want to have a sibling. But for over a year now have been unsuccessful with that with three losses. 

I know I have ghosted and come back a lot the last 8 months. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. 

*TW* end

1. I think the grad thread is fairly clear except for the 4th section about someone being here for maybe a month, silence is the kindest. That can be confusing to those like me who have come back after a loss(es). 

And the proposed idea of a >6 <6 cycles. Would that include benched cycles? Do you have to participate for those cycles? For example someone who has been trying for a year, but only has participated here for 3 of those cycles. Where do they post? 

Having even more detailed threads can make the lines more blurry and cause confusion. I would keep the grad thread the same, but change the wording of the 4th to be more clear. Either say if you have been here for a month, don’t post. Or remove it completely.

2. I agree the benched thread needs a change. I like the idea of a BOTB weekly thread for those abstaining by their OWN choice. Those who are medically benched need their own safe place. 

3. I could go either way on this. I see the importance of keeping other children chatter to a minimum. But for example. 

*TW* My BBT chart the other night looked awful because DD was up all freaking night and I feel like complete shit. And I know I can’t mention the reason for those temps. You know? I like the idea of being able to mention other children as long as people are respectful and use a TW/spoiler. But I do think that the top of the post for WTO and TWW is a little harsh and unwelcoming.  

*TW* end. 

4. This is probably a topic I care the least about. But I agree, the language is confusing. As the poster with POTS pointed out in her thread this last week. Definitely needs to be changed so it’s consistent. 

 5. I also agree that those who have gotten their BFP now don’t belong on TTGP. They have graduated. 

If you have graduated lurk and love tit people here in the meantime instead. Women here have been waiting years/months for a BFP and a take home baby. What is a few weeks waiting for their board to open to have a place to go? I can’t imagine people complaining they don’t have a place to go for 2 or 3 weeks.  

nomangos23

Wholeheartedly agree on Benched board. This should be for those who are benched from ACTIVELY trying to conceive. If you're TTA because you have a party coming up, you're not ACTIVELY trying to conceive. 

WTO/TWW *TW
I also have no children and have had several miscarriages but I have no problem with others mentioning their kids or past miscarriages. Are people really offended by hearing someone had a miscarriage? Like, there is no one that could be more painful for than me. It was MY miscarriage. If I'm (or others) are open to talking about it during a daily thread then more power to them. I like participating in the daily WTO/TWW boards but a lot of my cycle questions or R/R are often related to that fact that I have wonky things going on because I've had a million (ok, 3) miscarriages. I often find myself not participating because I don't want to TW/Spoiler my entire posts. 

Just my two cents.

meatballs37

@nomangos23 couldn’t agree more! My last cycle was weird for the same reasons, but I felt like I can’t mention it because it’s in the WTO thread. 

To be be honest I haven’t participated as much in the last year when I could because there are so many rules. And I don’t know if and where I belong. 

dpjennifer

nomangos23 I'm sure you've seen, but if I'm just mentioning my 4 MC or anything, I never TW that. Because I REFUSE to TW my life. Like you said, no one hurts more from it than me. However, I would never mention the details of my MC or anything like that without a TW. No one, not even those of us who have been through it, need to hear the gruesome details without being forewarned!!!!

meatballs37 Sorry you have to TW your life all over the place. It must be a difficult spot to be in with your angels that you actually got to hold and are still grieving even though I'm sure most people have expected you to move on, as well as a LC that makes TTCAL even more difficult.  

meatballs37

@dpjennifer nothing but love for you. 

lulu1180

1. This is something that has come up many times.  I don't think criteria needs to be mentioned in the newbie thread as anyone posting will (hopefully) read the full text of the grad thread before posting.  I see no reason to change this.  If someone who shouldn't post there does, then they'll get flamed for it.  I'm not gonna lie, seeing a 1/1 or a 2/2 hurts but at the same time, I'm happy for those that don't have to struggle like I and many of my friends have.  I really wouldn't wish the emotional pain of IF on my worst enemy.  If you've only participated in the board for less than 1 cycle, then no, you haven't formed enough of a connection that you should post there, unfortunately, people will always post there that really shouldn't.

For those that haven't been around long, here are some past threads where making changes to the grad thread has come up.
General Changes Proposed: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12706354/proposed-changes-to-the-weekly-grad-thread/p1
The thread that sparked the current grad thread wording: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12709284/ttgp-grad-thread-week-of-5-22/p1
The first iteration of the current grad thread (the wording for which @kiki75 came up with...miss you girl!): https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12709365/new-improved-ttgp-grads-week-of-5-22

2. There is no reason that the BOTB ladies that are postponing TTC because of a vacation (or other personal reasons) should be posting in the same thread as those that are currently going through a MC or whose partner is waiting on the approval from their Dr after a cancer diagnosis.  Once upon a time there was a separate thread for benched and TTA but there wasn't enough traffic for that and they were consolidated into one.  If the BOTB ladies are currently tracking their cycles and trying to learn about their bodies, then they are welcome to post in the WTO/TWW threads only instead of putting the number of months/cycles, put TTA.  If they are not currently tracking and they just want to hang out here, we can talk about adding a new pre-TTGP thread here.  Allowing those people to be included may add some traffic to the board and maybe have more "fun" threads.

Again, links for last time this was brought up:
BOTB ladies were called out for posting inappropriately last time here: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12703494/benched-tta-check-in-week-of-3-6
New wording was added on the next week's thread: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12704118/benched-tta-check-in-week-of-3-13

3. This is something that I do think we need to vote on.  As I mentioned in the other thread, this was discussed in some length previously but I don't believe it ever went to a poll.  My opinion changes depending on the day/my mood.  If I'm having a good day then mentioning children doesn't bother me as much.  If it's a not-so-good day then the merest mention of children will likely bother me, especially if it's a pretty inconsequential mention.  When I started on this board, there were people that I interacted with on the daily threads that I either didn't know they had children or would often forget because they were so rarely mentioned in the dailies.  When I interact with the other ladies in the daily threads, I want to get to know you all as people, not as mothers. And if you're constantly talking about LOs then it's difficult to make that distinction.  As for the spoiler, I actually appreciate that on the bad days.  It's a lot easier to just not open the spoiler than it is to not see a mentioning that's just sitting out there.

And the previous thread where this was discussed: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12712571/important-re-newbie-guides/

4. I feel like I may have been a bit unclear in my other post.  If a regular member wants to start a new thread, it doesn't need to be voted on/approved by others if it's something that everyone can participate in such as the instant pot thread, a game, a random GTKY, etc.  Starting a thread for AW reasons, such as a general question doesn't need its own thread. 
As for drive-bys, there are some on occasion that are ok posting, although they are few and far between.  Something like the POTS thread is an example; if the thread is a situation that is a little more rare, has little to no results when doing a search, and may get lost in the shuffle if posted in the questions thread because lurkers who can give a perspective might miss it, then I'm ok with it.  If they're just posting their pee stick, wanting us to examine their TMI TP pic, or using us as google then I say to flame away!

5. This isn't our job to direct people anywhere.  Once they get their BFP, they have several options open to them and I'm not going to take extra time to point them out.  I know this probably sounds a little harsh but I've been around TB enough and have lurked more than enough to see these things.  I don't want to have to possibly stare at a link directing someone to a BMB or PG board making a bad day for me worse because they lack common sense.

6A. If anyone has any issue that they want to bring up to those of us that have been here forever, please bring it up, I promise we won't flame you if you're just trying to get some information and figure out why we are the way that we are.  I know that @suzycupcake seems like a good choice and seems more approachable than some of us (#bitterinfertilehag) because of the time that she's been TTC.  However, she's really only been a regular on this board for a little over 6 months and because of that, doesn't truly understand what some of us are going through because she hasn't spent the time on here that we have and gone through the many iterations of threads like this and dealt with the completely ridiculous drive-bys that have gotten our friends banned because they were defending themselves (and us) from some pretty shitty things that were said.  I know that suzy joined TB last July, but she participated only here and there from August 2017 until the end of January, when she started posting regularly.  So her perspective on IF may help some but her perspective on the board doesn't match some of the rest of us.
6B & C.  I feel like these should be common sense.  If you look at the "Welcome New Members" thread as well as the "Tell A Newbie Anything" thread, they are both older than the Newbie Guide.  When I joined, both the old and the current newbie threads were around.  I read them both (and the welcome new members thread) and they both had different information on where/how to intro.  I used common sense and also lurked.  That told me that 1) I should follow the instructions in the newest of all of those threads and; 2) Noticed that there's a weekly thread created for newbie intros while lurking and just did my intro there (which was the appropriate place).  I think that the people who join this board are usually fairly intelligent and if they use common sense, they should be ok.  But more important, if they follow the number 1 rule and LURK, LURK, LURK then there shouldn't be a problem figuring these things out.

lulu1180

Also, 2 other things. 

First, when/if it comes to doing a poll, I'll be more than happy to handle that.  They used an external website previously that I've had some experience with and we won't have to do 10 different polls, just one longer one.

Second, what would people think about possibly doing some kind of pinned thread for board organization.  It would be similar to what the do on BMBs, but obviously wouldn't have anyone assigned and would be more like guidelines for what we've found useful or what has worked well in the past and maybe help future generations of TTGPers.  And in a thread like that, it could be explained (if chosen) not only the purpose of each thread, but maybe some of the other things, like mentioning of LOs in the daily threads.  Obviously, this is also something that could go to poll but I wanted to put it out there.

KristoKekerooni

I legit have zero opinions or cares in this world about any of this. BUT, I feel the need to respond to this @nomangos23 - 

I also have no children and have had several miscarriage but I have no problem with others mentioning their kids or past miscarriages. Are people really offended by hearing someone had a miscarriage? Like, there is no one that could be more painful for than me. It was MY miscarriage. If I'm (or others) are open to talking about it during a daily thread then more power to them. I like participating in the daily WTO/TWW boards but a lot of my cycle questions or R/R are often related to that fact that I have wonky things going on because I've had a million (ok, 3) miscarriages. I often find myself not participating because I don't want to TW/Spoiler my entire posts. 

This is really self-centered. Just because YOU don't take issue with mentions of losses, etc, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. How dare you insinuate that if you don't feel pain, how can anyone else feel it? And to pull out number of losses you have had is very competitive and pain Olympics-esque. Not cool. I understand (like, deeply understand), that a loss is painful. Three losses is horrific. But that in NO way makes your pain greater than anyone else's- which is exactly what you insinuated with the bolded. 

And honestly, your last statement about not wanting to spoiler your entire post? Give me a break. Number one, it's not that hard. Number two, since clearly you aren't as fragile as others, it's an extremely self-centered thing to say. You can't be bothered to help protect others a bit? 

Ugh. 


Edit because words and English and stuff

dpjennifer

lulu1180 Yeah, these threads sort of seem to be almost an annual occurrence. Sad to look back at posts you made over a year ago and realize that nothing's really changed. 

KristoKekerooni

@dpjennifer PREACH

lulu1180

@dpjennifer Exactly...these things get discussed ad nauseum every so often and I don't think any big changes ever result. 

Alyeena

*TW* Child, pregnancy and miscarriage mentioned* I am not the best with words and I took a little while to type this, so apologies in advance if I come across as mean or patronizing, it is not my intention.

I have not participated here in a while, even though I come and lurk sometimes. This board was really great when I was TTC my first a few years ago and I would love to join again now that we are ready for a second but everytime I feel discouraged.

There is the rule about not mentioning existing children or previous pregnancies that particularly affects me, I don't feel like I would be comfortable in an environment that forbids me to mention my child unless strictly pertinent to the discussion. I am not alone for thinking this way, several on us from Sept 16 would love to come join again but we don't feel like we would be welcome because of this rule. Is this rule it worth losing potential new members?
When I first joined here there was no such rule and the board thrived, back the BFPs were announced in the TWW thread too so it was definitely a long time ago (I do think the BFP thread was a good change). It was also when the "Postpartum Preparedness" AMA was created and I loved it then, it felt much less restrictive.

I do understand, it took us 4 years, two rounds of IVF and a miscarriage to conceive. I am saying not because pain is contest but just so you can see that I'm not ignorant about the kind of pain many of you go through.

I'm not really going to comment on other points because I am not actually a part of this community right now, but I would like to be, and so would many other moms from Sept 16. 

nomangos23

@KristoKekerooni Oh my! Sincere apologies for coming off as self-centered and loss-competitive. That was obviously NEVER my intention and I guess that's what I get for quickly typing out my thoughts without much proof reading.

I just feel strongly compassionate for those who have had a loss(es) and want to make sure they feel they can talk about them openly in a society that doesn't really allow that. Loss can be a very lonely place and I guess I'm suggesting that having to TW/Spoiler everything associated with loss just perpetuates the feeling that we can't talk about it openly. Which is exactly what a TW is suggesting. 

Perhaps for now I should stay out of the daily threads and stick to the TTCAL weekly board. 

And no, my comment was meant to be interpreted as "no one feels more pain for MY losses than ME". I can see how someone might think I was suggesting that I'm the only person who feels pain, which is an absolutely ridiculous and of course that's not the case. 

I'm sorry for your losses. It's horrible and I know where your heart is. Truly.

kvh22

I'm super new so defer to the longstanding members and those with particular sensitivities to certain potential triggers. A couple of points to add where I was (and still am) confused about what would be appropriate in certain situations so maybe as we're discussing, these can be added to examples that don't necessarily need to be called out specifically, but could be lumped in with some other examples when considering guidelines.

2. Benched/TTA thread: *TW* child mentioned

I was benched until DD turned 1 by my OB. About 3 weeks before, I wanted to join as I was getting back into tracking and lurked when TTC previously and found this board very informative. It was technically a medical benching although I feel like those words feel disrespectful to those benched for MCs, cancer, etc. I also hadn't started TTC and then stopped. It looks like I started posting right around the time that the wording was changed (and should now be changed back). I still don't know if I should have been posting and apologize if I contributed to the existing problem on that board by doing so.

3. TWs for LC: *TW* child mentioned

I'm absolutely fine doing TWs and spoiler boxes for mentions but the "extremely pertinent" phrasing is a bit vague to me so after a while, I stopped posting in the dailies as much as I feel awkward mentioning that breastfeeding and my first PP period are why I'm on CD35 in WTO with the way it's currently worded. I like @marebear15's recommendation to remove the "extremely pertinent" wording but see how it can be a slippery slope and want to be sensitive to others.

I also thought the MC *TW* were to be sensitive to others TTCAL in the dailies who maybe didn't want to look in the TTCAL board that day or a specific mention of loss but still want to participate in the dailies.

I don't want you all to think I don't care about #s 1, 4, 5, and 6 but as a newbie, I don't think my input is all that valuable, especially compared to many others who know the board well.

KristoKekerooni

I've never felt restricted in my ability to talk about my losses, @nomangos23 . typing a quick two letters before I mention it is absolutely nothing to me. That's literally the only thing people have asked for. A spoiler is encouraged, but not necessary. So like. Why is it so hard to type out two letters? I guarantee if you say, even every day, "my cycle is still so effed up because TW my last loss, so I'm super frustrated... etc etc" no one would bat an eye. 

NO ONE here would dare say to not talk about a loss. I've never, EVER gotten that vibe from anyone, and I've been around here a hell of a longtime. So to say that this community doesn't allow for discussion is absurd. There have been many, MANY discussions regarding losses. Including ones that look like this:

TW- does anyone know how long I can expect to bleed for? I M/c two weeks ago and am still bleeding
TW- I am having a D&C tomorrow, what can I expect?
TW- I am having major anxiety about TTC after my recent loss
TW- I just got this tattoo commemorating my angel babies: 

That's not reflective of a community that isn't accepting of discussion. 

The ONLY thing people say is to toss a "TW" there. Let me tell you why (again, since apparently you're superwoman and aren't bothered)- Sometimes I like to pretend and ignore that I have ever experienced loss. I like to pretend the world is a happy place where babies never die in the womb (or like, ever). So when I come to TTGP and wanna talk with my friends about how OMG, I SUCK at temping, etc, and then I see someone  mention their loss with ZERO regard to my feelings and where I am, it pisses me off because it breaks my careful illusion. Is it the best way to cope? Probably not. But the fact is, it's MY choice how I want to deal with my pain. And if I chose to ignore it, why can't other people add TWO EFFING LETTERS. 

And yes, I can see what you meant... MY losses do hurt ME more than anyone else. But I also am aware that MY losses can and DO hurt others as well. So I am not going to blatantly disregard their feelings. I can't help the pain I feel. The losses have already happened. They exist. I can't change that. But I CAN directly influence the pain other's feel because of my losses. And if I can, why wouldn't I? Just because I feel it MORE doesn't mean that other people's feelings don't matter. 

zamoraspin

Oof. I think like a lot of us I find this all very exhausting because it feels like folks who have been here a long time end up having to defend the way things are done. Honestly the OP is just so much to respond to and track I'm not sure how to handle it. 

Here's one of the fundamental things about TTGP as it has existed in recent memory:  we try to protect the minority from pain, as best we can, even if it's a bit inconvenient to others. 

*TW kids and loss. For example, I get the debate on TWs for kids and loss. Many posters would not be bothered if kids were mentioned more casually, or if loss is mentioned. Realistically TTGP is a revolving door of posters - given that 1 in 8 couples will struggle with IF, and 1 in 4 women will experience loss, that means that 7 in 8 couples will achieve pregnancy within a (medically) short time, and 3 out of 4 women will not experience a mc, eta more people here will have little to no trouble conceiving/having a successful pregnancy than will experience IF and/or loss. So should we cater to the people who are fortunate enough to have an easy time reproducing? Or should we cater to the people who are struggling with things they most likely cannot talk about freely in IRL? I agree with @dpjennifer that if you have kids, well, you get to crow about that as much as you want IRL. If you have to type an extra two letters before mentioning your kid or put something in a spoiler in certain threads in this community, is that really such an imposition if even one poster would be deeply hurt or triggered because you didn't do it? 

Frankly I never knew what it felt like to be triggered until I had my first mc. It is a deeply unsettling feeling to suddenly have your emotions go out of control because you saw a pregnant person or a baby. It's not a feeling anyone wants to have, I can tell you that. Out in the world things happen without warning, but here it is possible for community members to help prevent their fellow community members from feeling that way. So if being mindful/using a TW/using a spoiler would save someone from that, don't you want to do that? If there's a large contingent of people who don't. Well. I don't know what to say. end TW*

We've also had comments before that go something like -- all you bitterinfertilebitches should just move off to the IF board or Trouble TTC board and leave us happy newbies alone. And frankly that feels like what this is, even if coded in certain of the posts in this thread. 

nomangos23

@KristoKekerooni Honestly, no need for mocking comments like "Clearly you're superwoman" 

I've already apologized for coming off self-centered and definitely didn't mean to. I actually have had my hand slapped before for not putting loss comments in a spoiler which made me feel like I shouldn't/couldn't talk about it openly. So, also apologies about misinterpreting the rules?

I was just giving MY thoughts and MY opinions on a discussion board asking for them. I will obviously abide by whatever rules the group agrees on. 

KristoKekerooni

@nomangos23 , I’m not mocking. I’m basically saying the same thing you already have. You aren’t affected when people talk about losses. That’s awesome for you. But that doesn’t mean we all feel the same way. Again, if you can prevent hurting someone, why wouldn’t you? 

I’ve never seen anyone called or for not using a spoiler. Link please. 

Its not just about abiding by the rules. Because yeah, you’ll abide by the rules, but that doesn’t get to the heart of the issue. You -and everyone - needs to understand the REASON. Maybe if you guys get it, then it wouldn’t be such a difficult thing for you. If you have a heart, which I am positive you do, because I believe the best in everyone, then if you get why it can hurt so much, then you’ll do it without question or care. 

@zamora_spin has got it right. It’s not that we are against board changes. It’s that it’s freaking exhausting to feel like we have to constantly defend ourself. I’m sorry, but if I have the ability to protect even 1% of people, I will ABSOLUTELY do that. I know I’m not a better human being than everyone here, so why is this so easy for me to get but not as much for others? Can we not try to see beyond our own selfish desire to help everyone else? 

Alyeena

@zamora_spin Adding two letter before my post is no trouble at all and I do not have a problem with that if it will spare someone even a bit of pain, so long as I can speak about my child or miscarriage freely after that, with no restrictions like "only if absolutely pertinent to the conversation".

Also, I would never suggest people here move to the IF boards, I have been there and we have a very different way of doing things. BFPs and pregnancy and children and miscarriages are talked about quite freely over there. It is a very different environment and considering the discussion we are having here on that may not be comfortable for many. Edit* Not implying you or anyone would not be welcome, every one is welcome no matter their situation.

KristoKekerooni

I have no opinion about the pertinent thing... but I will say this, I'm not really sure why everyone is confused over it. 

mentioning kids because they are affecting TTC= pertinent. 
mentioning kids just because= not pertinent

For example:

I am breastfeeding so my cycles are wonky- pertinent
My kid woke up a bazzillion times last night so I didn't temp- pertinent
my kid is super sick, so we couldn't HIO on key days- pertinent

I was late to work this AM because my kid couldn't find her shoes- not pertinent. 
My kid has a play today, and I am so excited/bored/whatever-not pertinent. 

Since when did this become rocket science? 

meatballs37

@zamora_spin couldn’t agree more. I never knew what it was like to be triggered until my losses. What you wrote pretty much sums up what I think a lot of people here feel. 

Which is why why I feel like I straddle the line. I haven’t had IF struggles. Just very painful losses. And I agree, just because I may not understand what those particular IF struggles are like. My own losses have given me a greater compassion to empathize with everyone here no matter their journey. It is not hard to add a TW. 

Have people really said that members need to leave and join the trouble ttc board? Like wtf is wrong with people?! That is the problem with people these days, no one thinks beyond themselves. Ugh. My blood is still boiling thinking about it. 

*TW* mention of previous board/child

I actually recently left my August 16 private Facebook group that formed from TB. So many of the ladies there have gone on to have healthy pregnancies. And I don’t feel safe there anymore. I feel left behind in the dust. 

This is is why I LOVE TTGP. For the most part, members here think about what they say and how it might affect someone else. 

srscott3

*Lurker for about a year*

I know I am not part of this community, but I just wanted to offer a long-time lurker’s perspective. Take it with a grain of salt, I know y’all don’t know me. 

1. If you lurk long enough, you KNOW that you do not participate in the grad thread unless you truly belong there. As pp’ers have mentioned, it’s common sense. If you’re not sure, you probably should just move on. 
*also, a bit of a rant, but when I see people on the Grad Check-in say they were active on TTGP for two months, I roll my eyes so hard and skip that post. 

2. I am not currently TTC, but I started using OPKs, taking PNVs, and charting with FF about three months ago so I could get to know my body/how to read the tests/etc. We are waiting to start trying because of financial reasons. My first thought when I started everything three months ago was to join the community and just post in the Benched/TTA thread. I didn’t though, and I’m thankful for that now. Even after lurking for so long, I honestly had NO idea that the women who post there are benched or avoiding for very serious reasons.  The wording at the beginning of the thread might make a newbie feel like they can post there, when they really shouldn’t. Personally, I have just posted here and there in the CS/Q thread when I had a quick question. 
The idea for a Pre-TTGP sounds amazing for someone like me. However, if that thread is created, I think you guys may want to add a line to the Grad thread stating that time spent in the “Pre-TTGP” thread does not count towards cycles/months. I could see someone making an argument that they’ve been participating for 5 months on Pre-TTGP and then was a 1/1. Again, as a long-time lurker, it’s obvious that person shouldn’t post in the Grad thread, but maybe that’s just me. 

3. I am not an IF lady, but I have lurked that thread and I just need to say..IDGAF if you have kids..when you’re on this board, put it in a  goddamn spoiler. Don’t make it look like this: 
“Today my *TW* DD *TW* was so cute”
That’s bullshit and DOESN’T ACTUALLY WARN ANYONE OF THEIR TRIGGER. TFAS is a safe space for those with kids. And maybe in a Pre-TTGP there could be a general TW that kids might be mentioned. But other than that, there’s really no need to mention kids and I really don’t think it’s censoring “your life”. Honestly, I’ve seen one legit reason for mentioning a LC - your temping is off/it’s hard to properly temp because LO wakes you up a lot a night. That’s it. 
I don’t think MC’s need a TW on this board though. 

5. People who are fortunate enough to move on to a BMB can wait the two weeks for their BMB to open. 

4. And 6. The only thing I will say (again) is that if you lurk, you know to strictly follow board culture and loosely follow the pinned posts. However, as a lawyer and someone who gets annoyed on all of your behalf by the one-off posts, I really do think the language in the pinned posts should reflect board culture. So many responses to drive-bys include “please see the rules/pinned post at the top”. Then the drive-by goes there and is given a great defense as to why they did what they did. Changing the wording would cover your ass and not let anyone whine about “well that’s not in the rules”. (I know changing the pinned posts are easier said than done though). 

KristoKekerooni

@meatballs37 , Yeah, that was a huge argument... a year ago? maybe? That TTGP is for the fertile and all us IFers needed to go elsewhere so unicorns and rainbows can be had. 

Maybe not in all those words, but it was painful. 

hestia-is-wearie

**De-lurking in response to the proposed change to Benched/TTA threads**
I know I was one of the people who posted on this thread as someone who was TTA entirely by choice. I also posted on some of the dailies and lurked on the WTO/TWW threads, but after a while didn't feel right posting in a community of women who were actively TTC when I was champing at the bit to start. I know I've said my reasons for TTA were going to a festival, which is true, but it's the only real "reason" I've had other than DH's unspecified hesitance. I've had BOTB for years now, and DH and I are finally in a place where we might (and I'm really tired of using the word "might") start trying. Sometimes being on this board did nothing but remind me of how I'm not TTC yet.
Couples can have many reasons for TTA that may not be appropriate for the Benched/TTA thread: vacations, home renovations (absestos/lead), debt, unemployment, moving, etc, but would still like a place to talk about their anticipation for a LO. That's why I've been trying to make the BOTB board happen. There's only a handful of us right now, but I think the talk of these board changes has driven more people our way. I'm all for BOTB lurking on the TTC threads, but since a BOTB board already exists, I don't think we need to create a separate thread on TTC. A few months back, BOTB had its own WTO/TWW threads, and I'd be willing to resurrect those if there's a genuine interest.
My vote on this issue is to drive traffic to the BOTB board. The TTC board is an excellent source of knowledge and support, but I believe in having a separate space for those of us who are waiting to start due to reasons not covered by the Benched thread.

meatballs37

@KristoKekerooni I must have just missed that crap. I hope you guys smoked their asses out of here. 

jhems776

General kid *TW* for all of this.

 Hi, so I’m a new in this year.  I spent the better part of TTGP in 2015 and half of my thoughts are based on this and the other half is based on my kid.  I so loved being part of this group then and had an amazing time on my BMB and really want to find a home here again.  I do get how the board changes, sometimes it is unicorns and sometimes it is strict. 

1.        I do like how now you have a thread for it now and not in the TWW and if I voted I would say A.  I did love how VIP/long term/beloved would make their own post.

2.       I do not feel strongly to be honest.  I can see the case to limit but no to directing them to BOTB, that would like people trying to direct IF talk to Trouble TTC. 

3.       So, on my first time around here I would get a bit stung when I heard others talk about their kids.  Now having a kid I find the board a bit unwelcoming, if this is supposed to be a community it is hard to say to never mention the biggest part of your life.  Now, I can see the need for a TW, I think a TW at the top of the post and what it is for.  If we are supposed to chat about our lives and this is area for it then saying ‘my kid slept like shit last night’ should be ok as long as at the top you put TW kids.  

4.       Right now there is not a too many post problems, on the first page there are multiple posts that haven’t been commented on for almost a week!  So, yes I am for subject “Lets talk about X” posts.

5.       So, after you have spent time on this board you make friends and just because you got your BFP doesn’t mean you want to stop talking to them.  I am for letting people linger a bit as long as no pregnancy talk. 

6.       The board changes cultures, maybe it is time to rewrite it to reflect who is here.  The board has changed and at some point it will change to another culture and they will rewrite.  I would love it if this board was a bit more welcoming to those at the beginning as everyone at some point every single person here was.  

lulu1180

jhems776 said:

*snip*

5.  So, after you have spent time on this board you make friends and just because you got your BFP doesn’t mean you want to stop talking to them.  I am for letting people linger a bit as long as no pregnancy talk. 

I get wanting to keep in touch with people once they get their BFPs; I've become IRL friends with some people I first met on this board and I love being able to know what's going on with them and chatting with them from time to time.  However, the board is Trying To Get Pregnant and for me, at least, to see that person hanging around here commenting everywhere after getting a BFP until they move on to a BMB would be upsetting for me as it would be a reminder of my inability to get pregnant.  

jhems776

@lulu1180 I am a rule follower at heart and will do whatever the board chooses.  I'm just trying to add some perspective of why they might be doing it in this general discussion.  I am used to a number of people, not just TTGPers commenting, it was the norm when I joined so I just got used to that, the board was more of a talk about TTGP, not TTGPers only.  I do agree on this is not where they should live forever.