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April 2022 Moms
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Covid Thread

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Re: Covid Thread

  • loveanddatadrivenloveanddatadriven member
    edited September 2021
    @aloha_mama I loved every message everyone sent in this thread in response to Taylor, including yours. I have all of the same feelings I think some of you had. My first reaction: "BUT ALL OF THE DATA!" As the last person responding I just didn't think it would help by repeating. There were helpful links I hadn't seen before and also powerful personal everyday experiences with COVID that I'm distant from that I really appreciated.

    @doxiemoxie212 @doula-mama
    I think the majority of Covid vaccine distrust is a continuum, not entrenchment, and people who are distrustful are an enormous part of the US population (both of these are in contrast to the flat earthers). Many who are vaccine-distrustful now will change their minds in time, but only if they're able to discuss their concerns openly. It's just not possible to shut down conversations containing misinformation or exclude community members who are vaccine-distrustful. Not in much of the country. I think the only way through is to respond and engage in these conversations respectfully and build trust in our communities, even though it provides more airtime to viewpoints that are in contradiction to medical consensus (risking entrenchment, social normalization, etc - all of those things are already happening). It doesn't have to happen on this board if no one else wants that, I get that. To me, it depends a lot on what Taylor thinks of us and this board now. Did this whole thing cause more harm than good?

    I'm with you that if a medical care provider with a very privileged platform for providing medical advice arrived on this board saying that she advises all of her pregnant patients to avoid Covid vaccination, I would have responded very differently.

    Edited to respond to @doula-mama. I know this board, with its text format and tone communication difficulties, can come across as more aggressive to the person receiving constructive criticism than intended (multiple posts, etc). I also thought everyone was civil, but I could imagine Taylor not feeling that way. I only meant to remind Taylor she is still welcome here, and I personally want to see if what we said made a difference. I don't think I was treating her with kid gloves, and I don't think she needs them anyway.
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  • shlecksshlecks member
    Catching up, I'm assuming there was some deleting?  I think I missed part of the convo.
    IAmPregnant Ticker
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @loveanddatadriven the point of this board isn't to convert people to vaccine use, though (as fun as that would be lol) - ultimately we're really building a group of moms who want to go to Facebook and share extremely personal parts of their lives with one another once our babies are born. So my priority is being honest about who I am and what I think in hopes that everyone else will do the same and can thus make an informed decision as we progress toward (hopefully) longterm friendship. 
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  • aloha_mamaaloha_mama member
    @shlecks I don’t think anything has been deleted, it all looks the same to me.
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  • shlecksshlecks member
    @aloha_mama Oh okay, I just didn't see a comment where Taylor said she felt bullied and someone referenced that so I was curious.  No worries either way
    IAmPregnant Ticker
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  • doula-mamadoula-mama member
    @shlecks It was in her original comment, and I don’t think it was in reference to this discussion, more a general statement (but obviously I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, so please correct me if I’m wrong)
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  • shlecksshlecks member
    @doula-mama gotcha gotcha. Well for what it’s worth I think everyone has been perfectly kind and informative. ❤️
    IAmPregnant Ticker
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @dinomeetsjedi yes, black and indigenous people have a very valid reason to mistrust the government (DH is black), but by and large these still are not the people who are refusing the vaccine, and oftentimes this rhetoric is actually being used by far right groups to inappropriately place blame on black and indigenous people (see: Lt Gov of Texas). 
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @queenklau I saw that! Very exciting!
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  • monstera13monstera13 member
    @jessabelle05 No advice, but I’m so sorry you’re positive! It makes me so mad that people are refusing to use the strategies that reduce the occurrence of this happening!! 
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  • shlecksshlecks member
    @jessabelle05 Ugh I'm sorry.  Sounds like Tennessee. 😒  (which is where I am)  I haven't been through it, but I follow The Lazy Genius on Insta and she is just getting over a breakthrough case herself.  She and her husband both got it and they have 3 children.  (2 of the kids got it)  I know it's not the same as being pregnant with it, but might be helpful?  
    IAmPregnant Ticker
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  • robbensonrobbenson member
    @jessabelle05 I'm sorry, I can only imagine how stressed out you are, for you and your Dad. I haven't had it but in general make sure to keep hydrated and don't push yourself. 
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  • aloha_mamaaloha_mama member
    @Blondesweety444 That is amazing, good for him! What a relief, I’m sure! 
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  • zamoraspinzamoraspin member
    @jessabelle05 How are you doing?


    Also, question: I received the J&J back in March. I talked to my OB about a possible booster in a few more months and he recommended to get an mRNA vaccine just because of the (still extremely low) risk of blood clots with J&J (I honestly find the incidence so low it doesn’t really worry me but would like to follow his advice). Has anyone received similar advice? I think so far the guidance is to get the same vaccine you originally got, but I know they are mixing and matching in other countries. I’m not worried about reaction but more, am I going to have to fib to get a booster of a different vaccine? I’m getting a flu shot today and I noticed when I got my appt the questions about getting a COVID vaccine booster seemed to pen you in to getting the shot you’ve already gotten. 
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  • queenklauqueenklau member
    @zamoraspin2, there is currently no approved JJ booster, it is unclear the timing on when JJ is submitting for one to the FDA. I have also heard from many physicians that recommend getting the Pfizer after a JJ. There is no standard guidance for mixing right now.
    In my opinion JJ is not doing a good job in communicating updates to the public. 
    ******TW******Siggy warning
    BFP1 04/24/2015 EDD Dec 2015 MMC 10W5d;
    BFP 2 09/25/2015 EDD June 2016 MMC 9wks; 
    BFP 3 03/22/2016 EDD Dec 6th 2016 

       Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker


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  • loveanddatadrivenloveanddatadriven member
    @zamoraspin2 the lag on guidance for people who received j&j is so frustrating. Can your OB administer the pfizer vaccine? No fibbing required in that case. Since Pfizer was fully approved, administering it off label by mix and matching with another vaccine for medical reasons is defensible. I think off label use should be properly documented so you are followed appropriately.
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  • zamoraspinzamoraspin member
    @morganw320 That is really good info.

    @queenklau @loveanddatadriven Well I was going to say I have some time to figure it out (since generally I’ve been seeing recs to get a booster about 8 months out from full vaccination and that would be November for me). But then I saw the below news piece, highlights are J&J seems to be losing effectiveness in all age groups, not just older folks 😅

    I do think it’s important for me to get a booster because the twins are at extra risk of premature birth and we live in a very low vax state. 

    I did talk to the pharmacist about what my OB said and her reply was they have moderna and Pfizer available so hopefully it will be doable. I’m not sure my OB’s office is administering vaccinations or not - the mRNA ones have to be stored so cold and are also in multipacks so I’m not sure it makes sense for doctor’s offices to have them on hand.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/28/1041133830/for-people-who-got-the-j-j-vaccine-some-doctors-are-advising-boosters-asap
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  • aloha_mamaaloha_mama member
    @zamoraspin2 The efficacy of the J&J vaccine has dropped even more than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, so a lot of people are urging those who need a booster to talk to their MD about getting one as soon as possible. There are preliminary studies showing the safety of “mixing” vaccines and some even have tentatively shown a greater immunity than getting the same one. In the UK they’re already giving out boosters to those who got the J&J.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/28/1041133830/for-people-who-got-the-j-j-vaccine-some-doctors-are-advising-boosters-asap


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  • constantinabeeconstantinabee member
    The vaccine roll out has been awful here in Australia and I'm only just getting my first dose of Pfizer on the 11th. I'll be 12+2 then, and despite having a healthy and normal (IVF) pregnancy so far, I'm so worried that something will go wrong. Please reassure me anyone that got their vax in their first trimester that things were ok for you!
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @constantinabee go follow dr mama jones and dr marta perez on ig. They're both board certified OBGYNs who have lots of saved highlights on the vaccine in pregnancy. You can also follow Natalie Crawford MD who is a board certified reproductive endocrinologist. They'll give you all the info!
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  • constantinabeeconstantinabee member
    @doxiemoxie212 Ah I love mama dr Jones. I'll watch through the highlights. Thanks for the recommendations. My rational brain says it's all fine but my anxiety is saying otherwise.
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @constantinabee the main thing to remember is that we know covid definitely is very dangerous to pregnant women and fetuses, and there is no mechanism of action for the covid vaccines to be dangerous. <3 
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  • loveanddatadrivenloveanddatadriven member
    edited October 2021
    I really liked Emily Oster’s analysis of “when will the pandemic be over?” (author of expecting better)
    edited to add link: https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/covid-when-will-it-be-over

    based on where I live and how covid-risk averse my family is, I don’t think my life will start to look more normal until our newest arrival is fully vaccinated (probably end Oct 2022). We might get a couple months in the 3rd tri where DD2 is fully vaxed.

    I got back on my MIL’s sh** list recently for introducing DD2 to her fully vaccinated great-grandparents for the first time. Their memory is fading fast and they may not know who we are for much longer. 😞 MIL said if we choose to engage in risky behavior, she can’t spend time with us until we complete our 2 week quarantine. (She’s worried we got infected from my grandparents, and that we would then infect her. *sigh*)
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  • rbfleirbflei member
    @loveanddatadriven Oh I hear you. The whole thing is just so annoying and obviously no end in sight. Also everyone has a different opinion of what risk you should be taking. But I love that visiting vaccinated family is riskly. What a headache for you so sorry.

    Most of the time I'm fine and just like this is what we feel comfortable with take it or leave it. But we are currently playing the bad guy in our own Covid risk saga. My newest sister in law refuses to get vaccinated. Then brother and SIL keep asking me when I'll feel comfortable having them over. I keep very clearly stating, when you are vaccinated. Holidays are at my house because logistically I'm easiest to get to. Everyone else is vaccinated who can be and my daughter is the only child. SIL seems to think this means then we should all be ok with her not being vaccinated. Of course they are thinking once  my Daughter gets vaccinated all will be fine life to normal. But in a week they all find out nope, I'm pregnant and vaccines don't exist for under 5 for who knows how long so it may be up to two more years before they can come over. Meanwhile, got to tell them it is actually my grandfather who made the vaccine required for people to be at Thanksgiving at my house. I'm just enforcing his request. Good times. 

    I'm still playing with when to get my 3rd, I think the sweet spot is 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. Then I'll have full immunity before my parents and grandparents visit. Is anyone else still thinking about when to get their third? Such a conundrum. Trying to not get too far off my 6 month post second and still hopefully pass immunity on post birth but I guess nursing will help. Anybody have any articles on pubmed or other peer reviewed? Honestly my OB was not helpful in our conversations.
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    I think it's important to respect people's risk tolerance during the pandemic. It's not even necessarily about getting sick; I had panic attacks in March 2020 when I read the Imperial College study before all the news was talking about it (and before the world shut down), and the fear of wondering if my mom (who is 70+ and has asthma) was exposed was too much for me. There's only so much therapy and medication can mitigate with anxiety, and they're not options for everyone anyway (not everyone can afford therapy; not everyone can take medication). 

    DH is adamant that DD3 cannot be around anyone indoors (vaccinated or not) unless both parties are masked aside from me, him and my mom (who is here every single day and doesn't go anywhere without us). 

    @rbflei if you're not immunocompromised the booster doesn't actually give you that much more additional protection, and protection from the first shots doesn't really start to wane until 8mo. If you work in a high risk area the calculus changes because every percent increase will matter more under those conditions. Dr Marta Perez (OBGYN) has broken this down in a lot of details on her instagram saved in her IG highlights with references to different studies etc.

    My OB recommends waiting until 3rd trimester to get the booster with the basic goal of passing immunity to the baby. So I'll probably get mine right after the 8mo mark in 3rd tri. 
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  • rbfleirbflei member
    @doxiemoxie212 good information thanks.
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  • aloha_mamaaloha_mama member
    @doxiemoxie212 @rbflei I work in an in-patient setting in a hospital where I am regularly required to come in face-to-face contact with COVID-19 patients, people with unknown status whose test results are pending, or unvaccinated people. The 10+ OBs and CNMs I’ve spoken with at work have urged me to get my booster as soon as possible because my immunity from the first series is waning— I got my second shot in January so I am well past the 8 month mark. The danger for me contracting COVID outweighs the benefits of waiting for the third trimester to get my booster. So I will be getting my booster this week, at 10 weeks. I’ll check back to update on how that went since my second shot hit me pretty hard, and my flu shot a few weeks ago had me down for the count for a weekend. 

    I tried (half-heartedly tbh) to find research articles for you, @rbflei, but everything I found was about the vaccine itself and not specifically about the booster. But since the booster is the same vaccine as the first two in the series it should be considered the same. And every MD I speak with tells me we should be treated it as a third dose in a series of three and not as a “booster shot”, since it’s necessary for full immunity.

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  • rbfleirbflei member
    @aloha_mama more food for thought. My 8 month mark is October 15th but risk is pretty good for me considering I'm direct contact with patients 30 min at a time even though we have masks on, my husband works in the ICU and my daughter is in daycare. Pretty sure that will move up my timeline. Thanks for looking even if there wasn't much on pubmed. Everything I find is just not pregnancy timing related but that makes sense as there just isn't that much information available. 
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  • zamoraspinzamoraspin member
    @doxiemoxie212 Is there any data on the third tri being better to pass on immunity? I know they recommend TDAP somewhat later in pregnancy. I am going to have to get a booster soon regardless (8 months for me will be November and I live in a very low vax rate state, I will not be taking the risk of waiting - 1 in 3 pregnant women with symptomatic COVID in my county we’re hospitalized in August). My mom claimed she heard a news story that said pregnant women are actually better to get their booster as soon as permitted and not wait until third tri but idk where she got that info. My thought is get the booster timely, and likely while the babies are little I will hopefully be breastfeeding and be able to get another booster if that’s offered.
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  • aloha_mamaaloha_mama member
    @zamoraspin2 I’m sure @doxiemoxie212 would be able to tell you more, but the reasoning behind vaccinating in the third tri comes from the fact that antibody sharing between fetus and mother are increased in the weeks around 28-32, and fetal antibody presence equals maternal antibody presence at about week 36. However, I did find one interesting research article that suggested the earlier you vaccinate the better (the researchers said it was a somewhat-flawed study because the research group wasn’t very diverse and most were in their third tri already, but I’ll be interested to see further research on this). 

    Regardless, I think these recommendations are directed at the vaccine hesitant who haven’t gotten their first dose yet and need that assurance that the vaccine is safe. If you are due for your third dose then the prevailing recommendations across the board is to just get it, and not to wait for the third trimester. 

    https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(21)00215-5/fulltext
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  • doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 member
    @zamoraspin2 almost everything at this point is anecdotal, but it's basically just based on what we know about vaccines and pregnancy broadly - highly educated guesses, essentially. 

    But also I really should just add that I live in an area where 92% are fully vaccinated now and 97.8% are partially vaccinated, and kids under 12 don't make up a huge demographic so even including them doesn't bring our numbers down that far. I (and everyone in my "bubble") also can continue to social distance, everyone here wears masks inside (and many do outside), and our numbers are very, very low. So I'm at very low risk of getting covid being 2-shot vaccinated, I got my doses in April so I have until December before I hit 8 months, and 3rd tri is only a few weeks after that. If any of these details changes the calculus changes with it. 
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  • taylorz8912taylorz8912 member
    I have a legit question for everyone vaccinated that is worried about being around unvaccinated people. The CDC director just came out on CNN and said vaccinated individuals can still contract and spread covid. So my question is , why would you be worried about the unvaccinated when the vaccinated can still get it and spread it just like the unvaccinated? This is a genuine question that I’m just curious to hear . 
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