@rnyland1 I hear you, but my questions do come out of care for my newborn. It's not about thinking we don't need to follow procedures because we're better than anyone, but more a desire to be an informed patient and mother. There are reasons practices become standard in the first place, but also reasons that standard practices eventually change in the face of new research or new environments. Based on the research I read, it seemed that the practice started because of something that used to be much more of a problem than exists now, and that's why I want to know more about it. And while there are many reasons I'm 100% sure about not having or getting an STI that I know people still would doubt, not having sex at all between now and then seems like a pretty easy way to be 100% sure. There's nothing wrong with being a questioner and a researcher in the interest of doing the very best for your family. That's why people look for second opinions from doctors in serious situations. Doctors and nurses are wonderful and obviously much more educated in these things than I am, but like anyone in any profession, they have different perspectives and knowledge and sometimes have totally opposite opinions from each other. Just because one person or group said something is so does not mean their word is law forevermore or that they are the most right. There's a difference between being ignorant and having an informed, if not controversial, viewpoint. That's how research moves forward and things get better. I'm not at a point of refusing anything for my son or jeopardizing his safety because I think I know better than everyone, but I do want to know if I have options to consider. I may be a new mom, but I'm already fiercely protective and it took a lot of fighting through a "standard practice" crap to find a doctor who would ask the right questions and care about us enough to help us get to a point of having a baby still be alive at 33wks pregnant. We probably would have given up a long time ago if we had listened to the doctors who wouldn't deviate from what's normal or standard. Questions are good. That's my point.
Married 6/1/13
BFP #1 7/2013 MMC 9/17/13
BFP #2 5/2014 MC 6/15/14
BFP #3 11/13/14 (Found in ER with ruptured cyst) Diagnosed MC 11/15/14
BFP #4 4/2015 MC 7/1/15
BFP #5 10/21/15 EDD 7/3/16 Praying for our rainbow!
I just want someone to come clean my house.... Like a fairy or forest animals. DH does 99% of the cooking, though he is about to move to 2nd shift me and DS might be eating lots of cereal.
@rnyland1 To piggyback on winnie when a country stops doing a certain standard practice or doesn't use certain medication/chemicals we do, I research why. Recently Canada stopped using the eye ointment and UK don't give it for every new born and only use it on mothers who have tested positive or show signs of infection. I am pro-vaxx, don't demand any kind of schedule but on this subject I am really thinking about it. The US ranks one of the worst in Maternal Health in developed countries, so yes, I will question things that seem a little off until I get the answer that makes me comfortable. And an HIV blood test on yourself is completely different than squirting antibiotics in a newborns eyes before they even have time to bond with mom imo.
@winnie1122 The more I learn about the ointment the more I don't like it. But I'm going to talk to my H and dr about it and see, and I know my doula is talking about it in our next childbirth class (which I know will be anti ointment if mom is clear of sti's) I'm already opting out of the IV during labor unless I get epi or have a need for it.
@dolewhipper I agree there's nothing wrong with questioning the routine procedures to have a better understanding of why things are recommended etc. I also agree that doing all of those things before bonding occurs is usually not necessary. At the hospital I'm delivering at they wait on all newborn procedures until after 2 hours skin to skin and breastfeeding occurs so as not to disrupt the process and so that the first time your baby is looking at you, they can see you clearly. Maybe this is something you could request if you still want to have the recommended precautions taken but don't want it to detract from your initial bonding.
@winnie1122@dolewhipper I don't think there's a problem with being informed, but I do think that most hospitals require it by state law and you aren't able to just "opt out" for any reason, depending on what you state you live in (unless you aren't giving birth in a hospital?). Regardless of what Canada and the UK are doing, I don't think that the US will drop out of this practice anytime soon, especially because STDs/STIs such as chlamydia and gonorrhea are currently on the rise in the US, and neonatal conjunctivitis from gonorrhea can be extremely serious. Some bacterial infections are asymptomatic for some people, so they may not have any signs of infection at the time they are giving birth. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks, even if there is a really small chance of me or my baby having an infection. Completely abstaining from any sort of sexual activity/contact would be a great way to ensure you don't have any types of STIs. Unfortunately for me that's not really an option, because sex is a really important part of my relationship/marriage...and I'm not really willing to give that up anytime soon At my hospital at least I was able to bond with my son before they took him for the Hep B/Vitamin K/eye-drops, so it didn't interfere with that part of it at all. I think there's a national push for more mommy and baby- bonding time at hospitals, especially right after birth, so they are willing to plan around that.
@rnyland1 As a patient, you have a right to refusal. At least in NC (which is far from progressive), you can opt out of both of those treatments. I think it's completely acceptable to question the medical system and why things are routine. I'm not an anti-vaxxer by any means, but I do want to know why it is "standard procedure" to put things in me/my baby. Sometimes the research I do shows that it's the safest option, and sometimes it doesn't. I think it's my responsibility to be informed and do the research. I'm not blindly following anybody (naturopath or traditional doctor) who gives me medical advice. That's why second opinions are a thing. I asked my pediatrician, he said he didn't think it was necessary right after birth, that echoes my own research, I'm not doing it. That's not irresponsible.
Also, I know my husband isn't cheating on me. You're right, there's no way for me to absolutely know, but I call bullshit on giving my baby an STI shot on the chance that my husband that I trust completely has been sleeping around. Those odds don't make sense to me.
@elenabrent here in Texas we can't really opt-out because state law requires hospitals to do the eye drops, but it does vary by state. We can opt out of the Hep B shot I believe, but I won't be opting out because I want my child to be vaccinated/protected against any and all preventable diseases. It is great to be informed about whatever is being given to your child though. I wasn't implying that your husband is cheating on you so sorry if I offended you! I don't think my husband is cheating on me/ever would cheat on me either. I trust my husband whole-heartedly but I'd also rather just take the extra precaution for my child. I had never heard much about the controversy surrounding the eye-drops issue so I was initially confused as to why people might want to refuse it, so I definitely came off as judgy in the beginning. Sorry about that!
I may have forgotten how to apply makeup. I mean, I've worn it maybe 3 times since I found out I was pregnant and I have maternity pictures this weekend. My makeup may even be out of date, hahahaha. Lawd help.
The artist formerly known as Butters. July BMB June Signature
@rnyland1 I fully intend to get my child vaccinated for hep once the other vaccines start. But since I don't foresee him having sex or using dirty needles the first day of his life, I'm cool waiting until 2 months for that one.
I don't like either the "trust everything doctors say" or the "everything doctors say has ulterior motives!" attitude. Take doctor's advice and expertise, do independent research (that isn't mommy blogs), and make an informed decision. For everything.
A wonderful fellow prego bumpie informed me that "ticker change" are designated for the ladies on their day. So, for example, I am 30 weeks on Sunday but have been posting on random days of the week and had no clue...
A wonderful fellow prego bumpie informed me that "ticker change" are designated for the ladies on their day. So, for example, I am 30 weeks on Sunday but have been posting on random days of the week and had no clue...
A wonderful fellow prego bumpie informed me that "ticker change" are designated for the ladies on their day. So, for example, I am 30 weeks on Sunday but have been posting on random days of the week and had no clue...
I did the same thing for a few weeks when I became active. Couldn't figure out the point to posting everyday... But there was a new thread so why not. {face palm}
If you get the TDaP shot while pregnant for the sake of passing it onto the baby, does it then show up on the baby's immunization record?
I don't remember getting this my first time, but that was 6 years ago. My doctor hasn't mentioned it this time, so I'm wondering if they'll just spring it on me (which seems to be normal at my office since no one told me to prep for my glucose test).
No, they still need the three shot course once they're older.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug what's your take on shots & drops. I've kind of always been against this practice in my own head but I'm interested in your opinion here.
We signed the consent to opt out of eye ointment as well. Our midwives try to avoid what they call "over-treatment" and said it was fine to skip the eye ointment if you're certain neither partner has any STI's. DH and I both had to sign the consent and I am willing to bet my son's eyesight on neither of us being stupid enough to risk blinding our child in order to cheat on each other at this juncture. The downside to having the eye ointment as it was explained to us is that it needs to be applied within the first hour of life. That would disrupt the 1 hour uninterrupted skin-to-skin bonding time immediately at birth where our newborn will be opening his eyes for the first time and doing his breast crawl. We want him to be able to see, smell, bond, and squirm over to the breast during that time which would be inhibited by eye ointment. Or as DH so eloquently said when we were filling out the forms "Yeah, yeah, whatever we have to sign to keep our son from being blinded, stuck with needles, and taken from his mother's arms when he's born." Did I mention I love this man?
What @PootsDragon said about skin to skin / nursing! We were advised by our pediatrician to at the least delay the ointment so that we could establish a good breastfeeding relationship while he is alert and into it. (we decided on declining the ointment as well as the hep shot).
This is my second time going through this and I feel so enlightened by all of you. I went in blindly with my first child but with this one, there are so many things I need to discuss with my OB at my next appointment. Add eye ointment to my list.
The artist formerly known as Butters. July BMB June Signature
One of my 4yo students just said, to another kid, "get that fucking car out of the way." We had the most hilariously candid conversation about how fuck was a GREAT word but, ultimately, not one you can say in certain places. Including school. It was awesome. I love kids, they're the best.
One of my 4yo students just said, to another kid, "get that fucking car out of the way." We had the most hilariously candid conversation about how fuck was a GREAT word but, ultimately, not one you can say in certain places. Including school. It was awesome. I love kids, they're the best.
My husband and I have had conversations about how to deal with the cursing issue with our kids, and it's so interesting to think/talk about. I was raised in a conservative environment where even saying "hell" or "that sucks" was completely inappropriate and not allowed. He was raised where swearing was fairly routine, but the kids were taught that they were "adult words", and not to be used until the kid left for college. We prefer his family's approach, but also realize that our lack of self-editing at home may mean that conversation comes up sooner rather than later. :-P It's been interesting to try to decide on a good approach. I'm guessing we will discuss it many more times as the kids get older and hear a lot at school too.
@jen11797 I don't have plans to really edit myself in front of this kid. Rather I'd like to teach him what context to use with certain words. Some words are appropriate for school, for church, for Grammy's house, etc. Some words aren't. I think that's a lesson that is best learned from the get go instead of creating big taboos around words. In my experience teaching kids eventually learn the words either way and if the words have always been off limits kids are more eager to use them. All kids eventually cuss in front of the wrong person, it's not a big deal. I'd rather stress that "bad words" are racist, sexist, or hurtful words. Not fuck, damn, or shit.
ETA: Plus, fuck is one of THE BEST words in the English language. I don't want to deprive my kids of that.
If you get the TDaP shot while pregnant for the sake of passing it onto the baby, does it then show up on the baby's immunization record?
I don't remember getting this my first time, but that was 6 years ago. My doctor hasn't mentioned it this time, so I'm wondering if they'll just spring it on me (which seems to be normal at my office since no one told me to prep for my glucose test).
No, they still need the three shot course once they're older.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug what's your take on shots & drops. I've kind of always been against this practice in my own head but I'm interested in your opinion here.
I am very much for them. I am Pro Vax due to a close family member that is disabled from a disease that a simple vax would have prevented.
Their are 3 'medications' given at birth, the eye drops (usually clindamycin), Vit B and Vit K.
The eye drops protect the new born from bacteria that has been known to cause blindess. Dh is a germaphobe and I don't like people. I am also getting a C/S. But will still be getting it. Some argue against it due to the child's vision would be blurry when meeting mom. However, their vision is blurry regardless and a child depends on smell and hearing more (at birth).
Heb B. Again, he my child at risk for this? No. But I don't believe in just assuming all is well. And it takes a series of 3 for true immunity. I rather start that asap. Working in trauma has taught me one thing 'crap happens, be prepared '.
Now the last is Vit K. For none medical peeps. Vit K is needed for clotting. It is produced in our gut by bacteria (not all bacteria is bad). Since baby's intestinal tract is sterile at birth, their clotting factors are low. Even with delayed cord clamping. In some areas (especially Tennessee ) there was a large amount of babies dying in the first few weeks of life. All due to the refusal of this shot, basically all the children bleed internally. The shot help them until their can take over.
If you want to wait for your Pedi do due the Heb B, fine (in rather be on #2 personally). I don't see what the harm in the antibiotics drops/ointment, and I would be devastated if something happened and caused my child to end up blind when I refused it.
However, I seriously hard core judge women that refuse the Vit K shot.
One of my 4yo students just said, to another kid, "get that fucking car out of the way." We had the most hilariously candid conversation about how fuck was a GREAT word but, ultimately, not one you can say in certain places. Including school. It was awesome. I love kids, they're the best.
I Really appreciate when kids use swear words in an appropriate context.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug when we were filling out all the paperwork for testing I had a moment where I was pretty sure Vitamin K was the street name for ketamine and I was REALLY FUCKING CONFUSED about why I wanted to give our baby drugs. But then my husband pointed out that ketamine is called Special K. So, you know, that's different.
ALSO! Did you know that the reason circumcision is performed on the 8th day after birth in ritual practice is because that's the day the baby's body naturally ramps up production of Vitamin K? I think that's so cool. Science! Behind tradition!
(I'm giving my baby the Vitamin K. I'm not a monster).
Agree with @BecauseBabyIamAPug on all counts. I know that we are all certain that our husbands wouldn't cheat on us, but the reality is that it happens all the time and I've personally diagnosed STIs in several new moms who were completely blindsided. A little erythromycin ointment is not going to cause harm (like pugs said, their vision is crap anyway, hence the dark nipples we all got) and I agree with the standard practice of it because the only thing worse than finding out you have an STI from your partner would be finding out because your baby went blind from it. And the asymptomatic argument is moot because the majority of women with gonorrhea/chlamydia are asymptomatic.
I may have forgotten how to apply makeup. I mean, I've worn it maybe 3 times since I found out I was pregnant and I have maternity pictures this weekend. My makeup may even be out of date, hahahaha. Lawd help.
I still have makeup on rotation from 5-8 years ago. I never wear the shit unless pictures are happening or something special is going down. I know I should throw them all away and start fresh, but I really dislike the idea of having to buy all of that crap again for just once in a blue moon occasions. Maybe that's my FFFC.
If you get the TDaP shot while pregnant for the sake of passing it onto the baby, does it then show up on the baby's immunization record?
I don't remember getting this my first time, but that was 6 years ago. My doctor hasn't mentioned it this time, so I'm wondering if they'll just spring it on me (which seems to be normal at my office since no one told me to prep for my glucose test).
No, they still need the three shot course once they're older.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug what's your take on shots & drops. I've kind of always been against this practice in my own head but I'm interested in your opinion here.
I am very much for them. I am Pro Vax due to a close family member that is disabled from a disease that a simple vax would have prevented.
Their are 3 'medications' given at birth, the eye drops (usually clindamycin), Vit B and Vit K.
The eye drops protect the new born from bacteria that has been known to cause blindess. Dh is a germaphobe and I don't like people. I am also getting a C/S. But will still be getting it. Some argue against it due to the child's vision would be blurry when meeting mom. However, their vision is blurry regardless and a child depends on smell and hearing more (at birth).
Heb B. Again, he my child at risk for this? No. But I don't believe in just assuming all is well. And it takes a series of 3 for true immunity. I rather start that asap. Working in trauma has taught me one thing 'crap happens, be prepared '.
Now the last is Vit K. For none medical peeps. Vit K is needed for clotting. It is produced in our gut by bacteria (not all bacteria is bad). Since baby's intestinal tract is sterile at birth, their clotting factors are low. Even with delayed cord clamping. In some areas (especially Tennessee ) there was a large amount of babies dying in the first few weeks of life. All due to the refusal of this shot, basically all the children bleed internally. The shot help them until their can take over.
If you want to wait for your Pedi do due the Heb B, fine (in rather be on #2 personally). I don't see what the harm in the antibiotics drops/ointment, and I would be devastated if something happened and caused my child to end up blind when I refused it.
However, I seriously hard core judge women that refuse the Vit K shot.
Thank you Pug! I was just coming to say this. I don't care what you do with your hep B or eye ointment (we will be doing both) but if you don't do the vitamin K you are putting your baby at risk and I 100% judge you and think you suck.
I had a dream just now that the admins changed their tags and made an announcement but didn't tell us what the new tags were so we couldn't keep bothering them to unsticky things.
@PootsDragon it's an option for us too. We're doing the shot because our pediatrician said a lot of new parents get sleepy and forget to administer the oral as often as needed, and that gets dangerous.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug what causes a newborn to bleed internally? I haven't heard of this and am curious.
That is the crazy thing, no one knows for certain. Several of the death were in the head (brain hemorrhage), some of the infants had that but did not die. They basically had a stroke, so it is like us (adults) being on WAY to much Aspirin. They (the experts), think that it is related to the change of pressure after birth. The pressure in the uterus is much different than outside.
And yes @elenabrent, not Special K, but Vit K. I personally love Ketamine in my patients, especially in trauma after drinking. Sadly, it is rarely given. I feel a little Special K makes it so much easier for them. Alcohol + anesthesia = post-op delirium. * I also believe in Vit. V (Versed). *
* (I only give these when ordered, and appropriate. I don't just randomly drug my patients.)
@winnie1122 with my first baby, I also did the research and made an informed decision to skip the eye ointment and delay hep b - I also opted for oral vitamin k @PootsDragon -which was really nothing to administer. I was at a state research and training hospital and it was all completely acceptable and normal to make the decisions I did.
fast forward to my second delivery, in another state, at a community hospital and they acted as if i was trying to kill my brand new baby for not wanting hep b and eye goop at birth and requesting oral vitamin K which the staff had never even heard of. Our new ped actually said he would have to report us to DHS for not doing it...lol! Needless to say, we stuck with our guns and opted out of the eye goop and hep b and because they didn't have oral vitamin k we did the shot (because as others have mentioned, it's important).
2 completely different experiences based on who and how the staff was trained...why as parents we need to be our own advocates!
i think it's every parents right to make informed (key word - informed) decisions about the healthcare of their kids. I'm pro-science and pro-vax - but that doesn't automatically mean every recommended procedure is right for my family!
Regarless of oral or IM Vit K, they all work the same. The Oral tends to be more $$$ and many hospitals do not carry it. It never hurts to ask. I know my system only does IM.
Also for the comment that @carolynpetite, yes. Some areas that it is the law, and the refusal means that DHS/DES/DFAC is to be called. It is a requirement in some areas for the providers to report this. As a nurse/Dr/CNM.... we are all mandatory reporters. Some areas refusing the eye ointment and Heb Bis under those guidelines to report.
Thanks for all the information and discussion ladies, it's definitely helpful to hear all the sides and now I have some good questions to bring up with my OB. I didn't know about the Vit K shot or the internal bleeding danger, thanks for the info @BecauseBabyIamAPug !!
Married 6/1/13
BFP #1 7/2013 MMC 9/17/13
BFP #2 5/2014 MC 6/15/14
BFP #3 11/13/14 (Found in ER with ruptured cyst) Diagnosed MC 11/15/14
BFP #4 4/2015 MC 7/1/15
BFP #5 10/21/15 EDD 7/3/16 Praying for our rainbow!
@BecauseBabyIamAPug totally understand and am thankful for mandatory reporting when it's necessary (and while I obviously don't agree this is one of those times), for other readers reference we never heard anything from DHS after our 2nd child was born even though we were "reported."
Re: Week of 5/9 Randoms
Married March 2016
DD: born 7.22.16
DS EDD: 6.23.18
Also, I know my husband isn't cheating on me. You're right, there's no way for me to absolutely know, but I call bullshit on giving my baby an STI shot on the chance that my husband that I trust completely has been sleeping around. Those odds don't make sense to me.
July BMB June Signature
July BMB June Signature
I don't like either the "trust everything doctors say" or the "everything doctors say has ulterior motives!" attitude. Take doctor's advice and expertise, do independent research (that isn't mommy blogs), and make an informed decision. For everything.
@BecauseBabyIamAPug what's your take on shots & drops. I've kind of always been against this practice in my own head but I'm interested in your opinion here.
July BMB June Signature
ETA: Plus, fuck is one of THE BEST words in the English language. I don't want to deprive my kids of that.
Their are 3 'medications' given at birth, the eye drops (usually clindamycin), Vit B and Vit K.
The eye drops protect the new born from bacteria that has been known to cause blindess. Dh is a germaphobe and I don't like people. I am also getting a C/S. But will still be getting it. Some argue against it due to the child's vision would be blurry when meeting mom. However, their vision is blurry regardless and a child depends on smell and hearing more (at birth).
Heb B. Again, he my child at risk for this? No. But I don't believe in just assuming all is well. And it takes a series of 3 for true immunity. I rather start that asap. Working in trauma has taught me one thing 'crap happens, be prepared '.
Now the last is Vit K. For none medical peeps. Vit K is needed for clotting. It is produced in our gut by bacteria (not all bacteria is bad). Since baby's intestinal tract is sterile at birth, their clotting factors are low. Even with delayed cord clamping. In some areas (especially Tennessee ) there was a large amount of babies dying in the first few weeks of life. All due to the refusal of this shot, basically all the children bleed internally. The shot help them until their can take over.
If you want to wait for your Pedi do due the Heb B, fine (in rather be on #2 personally). I don't see what the harm in the antibiotics drops/ointment, and I would be devastated if something happened and caused my child to end up blind when I refused it.
However, I seriously hard core judge women that refuse the Vit K shot.
I Really appreciate when kids use swear words in an appropriate context.
Married: October 2014
TTC #1 since September 2015
ALSO! Did you know that the reason circumcision is performed on the 8th day after birth in ritual practice is because that's the day the baby's body naturally ramps up production of Vitamin K? I think that's so cool. Science! Behind tradition!
(I'm giving my baby the Vitamin K. I'm not a monster).
I might need to revisit my priorities.
They (the experts), think that it is related to the change of pressure after birth. The pressure in the uterus is much different than outside.
And yes @elenabrent , not Special K, but Vit K.
I also believe in Vit. V (Versed). *
* (I only give these when ordered, and appropriate. I don't just randomly drug my patients.)
fast forward to my second delivery, in another state, at a community hospital and they acted as if i was trying to kill my brand new baby for not wanting hep b and eye goop at birth and requesting oral vitamin K which the staff had never even heard of. Our new ped actually said he would have to report us to DHS for not doing it...lol! Needless to say, we stuck with our guns and opted out of the eye goop and hep b and because they didn't have oral vitamin k we did the shot (because as others have mentioned, it's important).
2 completely different experiences based on who and how the staff was trained...why as parents we need to be our own advocates!
i think it's every parents right to make informed (key word - informed) decisions about the healthcare of their kids. I'm pro-science and pro-vax - but that doesn't automatically mean every recommended procedure is right for my family!
Also for the comment that @carolynpetite , yes. Some areas that it is the law, and the refusal means that DHS/DES/DFAC is to be called. It is a requirement in some areas for the providers to report this. As a nurse/Dr/CNM.... we are all mandatory reporters. Some areas refusing the eye ointment and Heb Bis under those guidelines to report.