Vaccines

wherewordsfail · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
There are plenty more... So many that it would take me hours. I've read the articles professing the safety of vaccines as well as the science against them. I'm glad your father didn't die of cancer @wherewordsfail.
I've listened to REAL people who had life altering adverse reactions from vaccines. Can you blame me for not wanting to intentionally inject my child with something that would be harmful any other way? There are just as many proven facts out there against vaccines as there are for them.

People don't necessarily die just from having cancer. They often die from catching diseases that their bodies are too weak to fight. The incidence of this happening continues to increase as people choose not to vaccinate. I can respect any parent making a decision that makes sense for their family and their child - but this decision doesn't just affect you. I realize I am not going to convince you otherwise, nor do I intend to - I just want you to know that your decision has consequences. And not just for your children.

Kbalas1018 · June 2015

Anyways.... This isn't helpful to anyone. So I'm exiting the conversation. Good luck with your pregnancies.

Kbalas1018 · June 2015

PrairieGirl45 said:
Lmao quoting a couple of discredited wackos as your proof hahahs

These are true stories that took place. You know REAL people who aren't making money off of you injecting your child. Hilarious huh.

kayjay44 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

Lmao quoting a couple of discredited wackos as your proof hahahs
These are true stories that took place. You know REAL people who aren't making money off of you injecting your child. Hilarious huh.

Yep, absolutely hilarious.

HBirdie · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

There are plenty more... So many that it would take me hours. I've read the articles professing the safety of vaccines as well as the science against them. I'm glad your father didn't die of cancer @wherewordsfail. I've listened to REAL people who had life altering adverse reactions from vaccines. Can you blame me for not wanting to intentionally inject my child with something that would be harmful any other way? There are just as many proven facts out there against vaccines as there are for them.

Dying in a car accident is more likely than dying from an adverse reaction to a vaccine. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen in staggering numbers that indicate that we should all stop vaxxing? No.

Let's go with the car example. Seatbelts are a protection put in place to keep you from dying in the event of a car crash. I'm sure you could find stories of people who died because a seatbelt kept them from escaping their car or something like that. So should everyone stop using seatbelts because there's a very slim chance of it hurting instead of helping? Of course not. Because most of the time, the seatbelt is what saves your life. Are you going to take your tiny, eight pound baby home in a car but not strap her into a car seat to keep her safe on the ride home, because you read on Google that seatbelts might be harmful, and that it's your choice as a parent whether or not to use it? No. You aren't. And here's the difference- if you skip the seatbelt, the likelihood of you hurting someone besides yourself is still pretty slim. But you don't vaccinate your child and the likelihood of them passing a deadly disease along to someone who physically can't be vaccinated is a real risk you're taking.

MrsJG3 · June 2015

Deuces
Damn gif fail!

kayjay44 · June 2015

@HBirdie-

LMMama · June 2015

The whole "Everyone has their opinion, but I don't want to inject MY child with something potentially dangerous" is so passive aggressive. Like people who vaccinate are just following the crowd and don't really care about the safety of their children. I vaccinated my daughter and will be vaccinating my future baby too. For their health and everyone else's.

LittleLotero · June 2015

magnumJ said:

purplepenguin3 said:

Yeah....so why are we talking about this subject? Do we just want to start drama this early?

Because people think this is BabyCenter.

Dead. I'm totally dead after the BabyCenter comment.

LittleLotero · June 2015

Vaccinate your kid. You will thank us later. Jesus take the wheel if you don't.

LittleLotero · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
I don't care what you say about vaccines not causing deaths or severe reactions... they HAVE.

And unvaccinated kids have died from their parents choices. At least I'm attempting to give my child a good head start.

LittleLotero · June 2015

snarky14jd said:
This is a bit early to discuss and realize that your opinion may be unpopular.

I'm a fan of spacing vax out but vaxxing on time.

I spaced out with my daughter but she definitely has all of them now and she's 5.

thegingeravenger · June 2015

I'm impressed, this had the hope of being a civil vaccination conversation. As civil as possible anyway. I will be vaccinating my child as my pediatrician recommends seeing as all anti-vaccination research is funded by quacks. Also, immuno-suppressed people rely on the other members of the population to keep them safe. A word of advice to the OP - do not blame women's reactions on hormones. It does NOT go over well.

AmadorRose · June 2015

Lets just say, for argument's sake, that in 20 years scientists discover that vaccinations really CAN cause Autism...I would personally rather have a child who is Autistic than a child who is dead. Not dead from something unpredictable; dead because I took the word of some Google "doctor" and decided not to vaccinate. I've worked with the severely mentally handicapped: adult men who wore diapers at age 30 and lived in a group home with a padded room due to aggressive behaviors. I would take ten of them over one funeral. But that's just my opinion; I'm probably going to be a terrible mom anyway because I don't eat vegan organic everything.

Edit: grammar is awful when I'm passionate!

jennymack79 · June 2015

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but I did find this nifty gif showing how the trend of misinformation and general ignorance causing people to choose not to vaccinate has led to a resurgence of preventable diseases around the world. THIS is what you're contributing to when you choose not to vaccinate. Here's the link to the story on NPR, as well: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/01/25/265750719/how-vaccine-fears-fueled-the-resurgence-of-preventable-diseases

PumpkinTi · June 2015

I'll possibly try to space them out a bit instead of all at once, but definitely fully vaxxing.

twinmom1121 · June 2015

Pro-vaccine here!

Everycol0r · June 2015

*lurker*

I don't get why people choose to ignore science & yet use pseudoscience at the same time. Educate yourself, look up the numbers on the WHO. Vaccinate.

Everycol0r · June 2015

Here, I'll dumb it down so you can find it easily. Remember, this is 100% TRUTH.

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_afrprofile.pdf?ua=1

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_amrprofile.pdf?ua=1

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_emrprofile.pdf?ua=1

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_eurprofile.pdf?ua=1

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_seaprofile.pdf?ua=1

https://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/gs_wprprofile.pdf?ua=1

What was that you were saying again?

CuriousKiddosMama · June 2015

Somebody tag op because my tag isn't working. She needs to see this.

https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

Kbalas1018

kayjay44 · June 2015

@kbalas1018

g8trkim · June 2015

I find it shocking that this is even a debate. It's not like vaccines are new. They've been saving lives for many years. It's not just your own child you're putting in danger.

WLJ2 · June 2015

U will be vaccinating my child. But I prefer a delayed schedule. I also only let them do one vaccine at a time. Non combined! And I don't start until baby is 1 month. I say to each their own. Just do your research.i agree that there is a lot that is hidden about vaccines. But I do think they have a purpose. My little sister almost died growing up fright after getting an mmr shot. I have family that does not vaccinate and I have family that does. I am not concerned about my children being around kids that are not vaccinated any more than I am them being about children that are.

Op if you ever want to talk about the subject you can pm me.

minivanmafia · June 2015

Dang, what the hell did I miss?! I leave to cook for Taco Tuesday and miss this awesome debate. Pro Vaxxer here :-h

nlwz123 · June 2015

If you are going to backup your argument with sources in a scientific discussion, it is 100% necessary that they are actual, legitimate medical journal studies (ie, search the NIH, pubmed, etc). Any other type of site that is merely "quoting research" and throwing out statistics is a little elementary and will not be taken seriously.

Also, just for the sake of it: https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/spain-s-first-case-diphtheria-28-years-due-lack-vaccination

Thanks, anti-vaxxers.

nlwz123 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

Doctors are trained in medicine... Not heath. That is why many doctors can't help you unless they give you medicine. There are other things in this world that can help you besides drugs.

So, you are going 100% natural with your birth, yes?

SarahS06 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
Not here to start drama... You can state your opinion without being rude and I could accuse you of many things as well but it isn't necessary. We all have our own (strong) opinions. I haven't been vaccinated since I was very very young and I get sick less often than my friends who thrive on vaccinations (I also work personally with public every single day so I am definitely opened up to what is out there.) I think we all have our baby's best interest at heart and want to do what is best. I'd rather know everything about what I am injecting into my child rather than do it blindly and regret the possibly fatal mistake. I don't care what you say about vaccines not causing deaths or severe reactions... they HAVE. So I want to be careful. My siblings haven't vaccinated their children either and well... Everyone is just fine. Vaccines are actually changing our genetic code. I understand other parents intent behind wanting to vaccinate their children but I think it would do you a lot of good to know exactly what that means.

1. The scientific body of evidence is not opinion.

2. Yes, some people have reactions to vaccines. The statistics for people who have severe reactions suggest the benefits far out way the risks.

3. Someone who is not vaccinated is more likely to acquire and spread illnesses that have much higher rates of serious reactions, including brain damage and death.

4. Everything you interact with in your environment changes your genetic code through methylation. Look up epigenetics (it's an interesting field).

5. Using case studies (as to randomized, controlled clinical trials) introduces serious bias into decision making. Everyone can point to one person who defied statistics - the grandmother who smoked until she was 90 and never got cancer or the uncle who eat a diet high in saturated fat and is amazingly healthy. One person (or family) is an anommoly. Show me some other data points.

Not trying to rant. The lack of valid scientific evidence used to justify not vaccinating and harm Andrew Wakefield did with his "studies" is infuriating.

In case a scientific appeal isn't your thing, how about this:
https://time.com/3692439/roald-dahl-measles-letter/

Kbalas1018 · June 2015

I was making a comment about hormones (as a joke) due to the bitchyness not passion... There's a difference. And medical journals will of course only focus on medicine so any homeopathic regimens that DO work will not even be considered. I am listening to all of you but it's hard to listen to anyone who speaks so rudely. I have not bashed anyone. It is my RIGHT to question anything I put into my own body or my child's. And all of you should understand my desire to make a good decision. There is truth and lies to both sides and I find it hard to trust anything that is making billions off of my decision. You are all right that I can do better on my sources... There are plenty.

Everycol0r · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
I was making a comment about hormones (as a joke) due to the bitchyness not passion... There's a difference. And medical journals will of course only focus on medicine so any homeopathic regimens that DO work will not even be considered. I am listening to all of you but it's hard to listen to anyone who speaks so rudely. I have not bashed anyone. It is my RIGHT to question anything I put into my own body or my child's. And all of you should understand my desire to make a good decision. There is truth and lies to both sides and I find it hard to trust anything that is making billions off of my decision. You are all right that I can do better on my sources... There are plenty.

It's not your RIGHT to put people in harms way.

No one is laughing at your joke. Not vaccinating is a serious matter.

Homeopathic medicine is real, but you need to see a proper doctor & even they will recommend vaccinations.

ETA: It bugs me when folks start going off on their right to do this or that. Just like when people start screaming they have the right to free speech. Actually, you don't. Fighting words are AGAINST THE LAW. So not all speech is free, not all rights are rights.

kayjay44 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
I was making a comment about hormones (as a joke) due to the bitchyness not passion... There's a difference. And medical journals will of course only focus on medicine so any homeopathic regimens that DO work will not even be considered. I am listening to all of you but it's hard to listen to anyone who speaks so rudely. I have not bashed anyone. It is my RIGHT to question anything I put into my own body or my child's. And all of you should understand my desire to make a good decision. There is truth and lies to both sides and I find it hard to trust anything that is making billions off of my decision. You are all right that I can do better on my sources... There are plenty.

Uh, science isn't a lie. You're right that you get to decide what to put into your child, but I get to have an opinion about your choices.

And no, there aren't plenty of sources that detail why antivaxxing is good for society or bad for individuals that are legitimate. I'm happy to keep pointing out the flaws for you.

Kbalas1018 · June 2015

And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool

kayjay44 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool

Cool story. You're still putting others at risk and it's selfish.

YouHadMeAtMeatTornado · June 2015

Remember that time you got smallpox?

...No. No, you don't. You're welcome.

-Every vaccinated person on the planet.

wherewordsfail · June 2015

Pharmaceutical companies actually make very little off of vaccinations as compared to other drugs. Vaccinations are only 2-3% of what they make money on and if you use logic here, you'd also realize that pharmaceutical companies would make WAY MORE money if we got sick and stayed sick rather than giving us a drug preventing that.

But again, I don't think anyone here (no matter how much actual, scientific fact we spit at you) is going to change your mind. That's a good thing actually. Mothers doubt themselves a lot, and it's great that you don't.

It's too bad it comes at such a cost to other people.

Kbalas1018 · June 2015

magnumJ said:

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool
Cool story. You're still putting others at risk and it's selfish.

What's selfish is forcing chemicals into your child when they can't do anything about it. I know tons of unvaccinated people and none of them have caused any harm to society.

Everycol0r · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

magnumJ said:

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool
Cool story. You're still putting others at risk and it's selfish.
What's selfish is forcing chemicals into your child when they can't do anything about it. I know tons of unvaccinated people and none of them have caused any harm to society.

Until they do.

HBirdie · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool

I hope you do. It's really the least you can do for the rest of us if you decide to ignore the multitude of scientific, peer-reviewed research that says vaccinating is safer than not vaccinating. I'd prefer that my children not attend school with special snowflakes like yours.

thegingeravenger · June 2015

No one's being rude. Passionate perhaps, but this is the most tame discussion on this I've seen in a while.

@nlwz123 - it makes me smile to see a fellow IFLS reader!

wherewordsfail · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

magnumJ said:

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool
Cool story. You're still putting others at risk and it's selfish.
What's selfish is forcing chemicals into your child when they can't do anything about it. I know tons of unvaccinated people and none of them have caused any harm to society.

I am very selfish that I don't want my child to die a painful and unnecessary death due to a resurgence of a preventable illness. Super selfish. You're right.

kayjay44 · June 2015

Kbalas1018 said:

magnumJ said:

Kbalas1018 said:
And truthfully the food we eat has a ton to do with our immune systems being so bad. I wish all of you would try to understand where I'm coming from rather than rip me to pieces because I'm not following the herd.
My goal is not to put anyone else at risk or my own child. I just think there is more to it than what we're being fed by this billion dollar industry. I am passionate as well and I am confident in who I am and the decisions I make. Who knows... Maybe I'll even homeschool
Cool story. You're still putting others at risk and it's selfish.
What's selfish is forcing chemicals into your child when they can't do anything about it. I know tons of unvaccinated people and none of them have caused any harm to society.

No, no it's not. I know tons of vaccinated people who have caused no harm to society. What is your logic here?

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