February 2012 Moms

Refusing Vaginal Exams

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Re: Refusing Vaginal Exams

  • best........thread............EVER!!!! Hilarious doesn't even come to describing the insanity of this thread. I was sent here from another site; it's that good! Thanks for the laughs, ladies!
  • Considering that this OP joined on 11/8/11 and this was her first post has anyone thought of the possibility that this is SPQ?  She has a detailed back story and pictures but those are possible to fake.  Just saying, a little coincidental that the mods just took care of her and now this shows up...?
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  • imagekrisdemeanor:

    imageTKx2:
    OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.

     

    People come on here and make stuff up? why? 

    Why don't you tell us?
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  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imageMegGary:

    I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.  

     

    Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.  

    Ofcourse I am getting prenatal care, I also take my vitamins and I eat organic. But thanks for the concern. Many doctors will actually not do a pap during pregnancy because the hormones can cause a false positive and even if abnormal cells are detected it is not treated untill after baby is born.  Not to mention the risk of preterm labor...you are taking a sample from the cervix...not all doctors hold this belief but enough mainstream doctors do...so much so that in my experience with 2 doctors I told them both "I will not be getting a pap" and both of them said they didn't do them until after pregnancy. And i don't know if anybody told you but the internet is full of valuable information...it is the main research tool used today. However, I have also read tangible books on this subject...is that acceptable research to you?

    damnit - nest ate my post.  The internet is the main subject tool of lay people.  Actual researchers do... research. In a lab. Or with clinical trials.  And then their research is reviewed by peers and published. Google is not research. Please, point to a single peer reviewed article that indicates that pap smears are not valuable tools in women's health. I'll even point you to a good portal to do find these studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=PubMed

    Also, please share the books that indicate this.  Should be easy since you are so well versed on the subject.

     

    image
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    I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
  • imagetwo-pink-shoes:

    I'm not going to touch the rest of your issues, but there is not a blood test for cervical HPV.  That's not even possible.  You can detect if someone has CANCER by blood tests, but not the virus because only the cervical cells are infected.  And it's a good idea to try to stop cancer from progressing, which is why the Pap and the molecular HPV tests go for the virus.  

     Love,

    A molecular biologist who worked on HPV diagnostics for 3.5 years 

    Please.  As a cell biology Ph.D. myself, of course I know that you don't need to have worked in a field to know more about it than someone who has ... GOOGLE! Don't you know that's where you do "real" research?

    Stick out tongue

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    image

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  • imageepphd:
    imagetwo-pink-shoes:

    I'm not going to touch the rest of your issues, but there is not a blood test for cervical HPV.  That's not even possible.  You can detect if someone has CANCER by blood tests, but not the virus because only the cervical cells are infected.  And it's a good idea to try to stop cancer from progressing, which is why the Pap and the molecular HPV tests go for the virus.  

     Love,

    A molecular biologist who worked on HPV diagnostics for 3.5 years 

    Please.  As a cell biology Ph.D. myself, of course I know that you don't need to have worked in a field to know more about it than someone who has ... GOOGLE! Don't you know that's where you do "real" research?

    Stick out tongue

     I totally just googled and found a site claiming that the HPV DNA test is from blood.  I sent them a note telling them they were wrong with a link to the company that makes that test.

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  • How dud u even get pregnant
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  • Seriously? Im so confused right now. So you wouldn't get a pap until you had cancerous symptoms is what you are saying? I went in for a routine check and it saved my life. No signs or symptoms. Just routine. 

    As for the not having anyone touch your vagina during delivery, I can't help but laugh out loud right now.There is going to be a baby coming out of your hooha and you are worried about someone touching it?  

     

    Oh I just read that something happened to you? Well me too, but that doesn't mean I would put my unborn childs life at risk

     

    Oh and MUD 

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  • Damn.....

    Here's a little background for YOU.....

    MUD= Made Up Drama

    Yes... people do come on boards like this to stir things up. They like attention (though it was WAY more common on the knot)

    If you post a question you are opening yourself up to the opinion of other people.

    Not many people on here are medical professionals. We don't know specific medical answers unless we ourselves have asked a Dr.

    So yeah..... that being said, here's MY opinion...

    Since I have no medical background I can only really respond to the first part of your post. I'm sorry that vaginal exams make you uncomfortable and it's your own choice not to get them HOWEVER... I personally think it's ridiculous not to have them during labor. Why would you want to make your Dr jump though less reliable hoops when they can just take a look to see how far along you are? Seriously, have you ever HAD a baby before? You seem to think you're still going to care about the little stuff. It's not like they're going to be giving you a pap in the middle of labor. Vaginal exams during labor ARE necessary. They're going to be checking your progress, assessing the damage/tearing, checking the position of the baby, delivering the baby and quite possibly giving you stitches.

    If this is such a BIG DEAL in regards to the Dr giving you exams why don't you and your partner look into doing a home delivery? Why don't you look into delivering with a midwife who shares the same beliefs that you do. Don't be surprised if they throw in the towel and say you have to go into Labor and Delivery though. Happened to my Sister in law. If they think you or the baby is in distress they WILL cart your ass off to the hospital.

     

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  • I think starting this post/question in the way you did set you up for a lot of the responses. Most people are trying to be helpful by being honest. welcome to our board where the women here are honest. Seriously go talk to your dr or midwife so that they can see how much they can accomodate your needs and if the hospital you deliver at are going to allow that kind of thing.
    I do not like getting my "who-ha" checked either but I realize that its for the safety of my child. especially with the first std screens that are mandatory to have where i live just simply for the safety of the baby. It is fine that you do not personally agree with vaginal exams but maybe a c section birth would be better if your hospital cannot accomodate what you would like. I would be cautious about getting an epi too early because its been proven that one to early can slow down and stop labour progression. 

    I do not mean to offend but starting off antagonistically is not going to get you positive answers...

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  • Well all.....just to let you know. I'm a medical doctor and got my degree from Dr. Google University. You can google it. So everything I said...was right. ;)
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  • I'm late to the party.

    How do you expect the doctor to get the baby out? What if there is a problem and hospital policy wont let you do it yourself (incase that was your answer)?

    If you have serious issues with pain and vag-touching, you need to schedule a c/s and have them knock you out while they do it. 

  • Is this for real? Yes, you have to be checked throughout labor. And never had a pap? Seriously, that's just not smart at all.
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  • imagekrisdemeanor:

    imagegisa886:
    OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker 

     

    I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha

    Okay... so let me get this straight. Asymptomatic=no paps/VE's... what about me? I was asymptomatic, but got a abnormal pap. I ended up having to have a cyro done because I had abnormal cells that may lead to cancer? If I wouldn't have been checked out--I would have cancer. What you obviously don't realize as well, is that MOST women don't show s/sx (signs or symptoms) of vaginal infections, whether it be an STD, PID, cancer...etc. I HATE paps... My VE's with my DS hurt like a b!tch because I have a retroverted uterus and my cervix never becomes posterior. So they would pull my cervix down and then check my dilation and effacement.

    I still had them do it because it's necessary. Doctors don't just go around sticking their hands and speculums up vaginas because it's fun. And like all the PP's said it's Hospital Policy. If you came on the bump for a straight YES or NO answer your not going to get it. So get over yourself... your pissing people off. Also another thing, coming from someone who's done the L&D thing... VE's aren't going to cause your baby distress and your already going to be distressed because your going to feel like your body is ripping apart... So don't try to come up with excuses.

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  • OP: People might be nicer if you'd actually post the sources you're citing instead of just insisting we can google it ourselves.  And, as PP have said, internet does not equal google.  Yes, we can find good scholarly stuff on the internet, but a google search goes not guarantee that the sources are scholarly.  And they're not asking for your sources to be difficult.  They're asking for your sources so they can truly understand your perspective and make a better judgement call.
  • Maybe SPQ is back!!!
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  • This is likely an issue of hospital policy as PinkSweetPea pointed out. For example, our hospital requires at least intermittent electronic fetal monitoring. The nurse pretty much said "you're coming to the hospital so we assume the liability, for us to assume the liability we have to perform some sort of monitoring in order to ensure we're meeting care standards." Even if you have a practitioner who agrees with you in theory, they may be restricted in practice.

     

     

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  • imagekrisdemeanor:

    imageTKx2:
    OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.

     

    People come on here and make stuff up? why? 

    Yep! Shocking right? Why don't you tell me why people come on here and make stuff up?

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  • Bottom Line...You are a liar if you say that ANY legitimate OB/GYN believes this insanity you are spewing or promotes it. There is NO legitimate ACOG certified OB/GYN that would support a woman not receiving pap smears and vaginal exams during pregnancy. I am a licensed medical professional and your claims about having "professionals" back you up is ludacris.

     NO..there is absolutely NO way ANY hospital in the United States nor would ANY licensed MD or CRNA perform an epidural on a woman who hasn't recieved an internal vaginal exam prior to epidural adminstration. Not to mention the malpractice and insurance risks associated with that but it would be againist their hypocratic oath.

    You are an idiot, I don't give a crap if you think Im a big bully and I won't at all be surprised if 5 years from now you end up with Stage 3 Cervical Cancer and regretting every stupid decision and statement you have made regarding VE's and "unnecessary" pap smears. You think it's "fear-mongering". Let me tell you something, being in so much pain you can't move is REAL, having tumors from your cervical cancer spread to EVERY single organ in your body is REAL, not being able to remember your OWN name or speak because your brain is covered in metastatic lesions is REAL. None of those are "fear-mongering", those are things I have seen and treated with my own eyes and hands and let me tell you it wasn't in someone who had it for years, Im talking seemingly HEALTHY and "ASYMPTOMATIC"  30 year old's who are 6-12 months post diagnosis. You want to leave your wonderful fiancee and child alone and behind after you die because that is the road you are headed down...next thing I know you are going to be saying "mammograms are unnecessary"

    The only thing that makes me remotely sad about your situation is that you are sadly going to be influencing another human being with your stupidity. I pray with every fiber of my being that you don't have a girl because GOD HELP HER.

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  • imagemominatrix:

    I usually don't tell this story to pregnant women, because it's evil. OP, you keep reading... everybody else, just skip up to the ************, OK?

    OK... everybody else gone?

    With my daughter, I was in labor for 96 freaking hours. It's called podromal labor... you can look it up... I was having contractions that were long and short, close together and far apart. They were uneven and irregular. They were exhausting and painful to the point where when they hit I couldn't walk and couldn't speak.  For ninety six hours.

    After the first 36 hours or so, I went into the hospital... I wanted to get checked in because I was firmly convinced I was in labor and it was intense and I wanted to be among medical professionals.  They checked me.  I was a HALF centimeter dilated.

    I went in a day later. The contractions had continued unabated for another day. I was a centimeter dilated.

    At a half centimeter or a centimeter there was no way in everlovinghell that they could or would give me an epidural... my contractions were irregular so I wasn't making progress... turns out baby was also malpositioned (she was trying to come out face first and sunny side up) which is why my labor was so messed up.

    My doctor actually checked me into the hospital and gave me morphine so I could sleep.  Not an epidural. Morphine.

     Now that the scary part is over, we'll bring everybody else back in, mkay?

     

    *******************

    Not every labor is textbook. Not every labor is perfect. They can make guesses about how far along you are (like when you're vomiting, you're probably transitioning, so you're probably dilated about 7 cm) but not one of those indicators is as accurate as actually getting in there and seeing what your cervix is doing.

    Sorry, but that's the truth.

     

    I'm totally late to the party, but my son's birth was VERY similar to this. Except my contractions were very regular. And having someone put some fingers in my vag was seriously the least of my worries at this point. And by the time you get the epidural, you wont feel them giving you exams anyway, so the "torture" is gone.  

    Anyway, my other point is PP are right- the doctor can't assume everything will go a certain way and promise you something they can't deliver. They could get sued. 

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  • This is silly. The only way you're going to get around not having a vaginal exam when your baby comes out of your vagina is to have a c-section. Or you could just not go to the hospital at all, and just have the baby fall out when it's ready... of course, you wouldn't get the epi then... so complimacated.
  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imagemomyof22b:

    Nope. there's no other way you won't feel it so you will have to be checked. Good luck at trying to not get checked throughout the entire process, you will need to be checked to make sure the baby isn't in the wrong position!!

     You are in a dream world if you think you won't need to be checked throughout labor.

    You actually do not have to do anything you do not want to and I know several women who were not checked throughout the process although they were having natural births. I also know several women who could still feel the urge even with an epidural and were able to avoid VEs altogether as well. I know all of the reasons people get vaginal exams during delivery and I know they are not always necessary...that was not my question...my question is if they can hold my epidural hostage.

     

    Why not ask these women instead of having to deal with the responses we offer?  I, like PP's, think you are setting yourself up for failure by not having paps, but its your body.  As you already have been told, most women are asymptomatic, so if you choose to remain uneducated thats your business.  Ask the people you already know, they will be able to give you far better answers than we will.

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  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imageelizxu:

    Why do you want to get the epi immediately? Epi's often slow down labor & you would be on strong medication for a long time. You many want to give yourself the opportunity to go through early labor without it, you may not even need it. I'm not knocking epi's, in any way, just curious to why you are in a rush to get it. Do you have other medical issues or maybe fear issues?

    I plan on only being checked during admission. I have requested to opt out of cervical checks the weeks leading up to labor and after the initial check at the hospital.

     

    I am actually not 100% on getting it when I go in immediately...I initially wanted to in order to avoid hours of pain...even if it wasn't the high intensity contractions...and I was hopeful that by the time pushing came along it would be dulled enough for me to feel some of what was going on since I received it hours earlier. That was a suggestion one doctor gave me and it seemed to make sense but I am not sure about it yet. I have PTSD issues.

    Please address your PTSD issues in a multiple therapy session, which you may already be doing, now. Going into labor harboring a lot of fear could cause issues during L&D. Fear is possibly one of the leading (non medical) reasons for long, stalled or extremely difficult L&D. If you go in with more confidence & are relaxed, I think you will be more likely to achive the labor you hope for.

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  • You seem to already think you have the answer to your question. So, why did you ask us in the first place. By the way, you can also REQUEST they shoot you up with heroin.You can request whatever the hell you want, they don't have to comply with your request! I do think you are in for an unpleasant wake up call. Good luck to you.
  • imageepphd:
    imagekrisdemeanor:

     I have PTSD issues.

    No one would fault you had you said "I have personal issues with vaginal exams - is it possible to forgo them?"  You'd probably hear that no, it's really not likely to forgo them but you can minimize them.

    BUT - the minute you state that what is objectively considered to be one of THE most useful tools in the early detection or even prevention of cancer is instead "torture" "antiquated" and "medically unnecessary", you lose all credibility.

     

     

    THIS! You really should have said something about PTSD in the beginning of the post! Anyway, I really doubt you will be able to avoid vaginal exams, it is part of labor. If you don't get VE before delivery you will need to be treated as if you have Group B Strep because it can be dangerous if you don't have it, this is done with vaginal exam. Also, if you need c/s for any reason you will have to have cath and that will be in place for abot 24 hours after delivery. 

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  • I can't believe I missed this one yesterday!

    I'm confused  as to why OP wants an epi but refuses to have vag exams.  OP's position seems very much in line with non-intervention medical treatment, which generally falls outside realm of western medicine ( i.e. naturopaths, etc.) and even then my naturopath suggests paps and there are a few at his clinic that perform them.  Since this seems to fall so far outside the scope of conventional medicine, why hasn't OP chosen to go with a mid-wife in a birth center and have an all natural birth?  No vag exams but epi seems to conflict... no intervention but intervention... 


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  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imagelanie30:
    imagekrisdemeanor:

    imagegisa886:
    OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker 

     

    I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha

    I think there's more to this than you may be letting on but that is your own story. I've never found a routine pap to be torturous. Inconvenient and uncomfortable, maybe. But also quick and an important part of women's health.  Many STI's and infections do not exhibit symptoms in women but paps and evaluations/examinations find them. So your opinion about asympomatic women is very off.

    That being said I was not checked "routinely" through the last month of my pregnancy. I was checked several times during labour by my midwives and then an OB who determined through this examination that the baby was in a bad position and quickly had to be removed.

    It is ok to be uncomfortable about the examinations but to turn that discomfort into a sweeping generalization that flies in the face of modern medicine and women's health publications is outrageous and that is why you are receiving incredulous feedback. I know that personally I'm really hoping you're able to find someone to deal with these hang ups before they become dangerous or too hard for you to deal with during labour.

     

    Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised. I get that it seems outrageous but when I read something that is so ridiculous I cannot believe it...I go research it and decide for myself...I don't automatically dismiss it as false...would it really be so out of this world to find out that our vaginas are not as prone to sickness and infection as we once thought? Or that there are modern medical advances that make paps obsolete yet are being withheld from the public simply because you can bill a lot more for a pelvic. Look up the blood test that should have already replaced pap tests it is patented...it is just being stalled and buried. What it really comes down to is a matter of opinion...I did not once attack any of these ladies for having the opinion that a pap is important, or that VEs during labor are super necessary even tho my opinion disagrees....yet I feel quite attacked for simply stating that it is my opinion...through hours of research....that it is not necessary for me, personally and possibly others that feel like I do and are also low risk for any complications. I do have underlying issues which i thought would be so ridiculously obvious to most women on here. haha I guess not - most women on here seemed happy to make fun of me.

    If you google "End of the World" it will tell you that the world ended on 10/21/11, should we believe that too?

    Also how did you decided to choose this board to ask? Most of these ladies are still pregnant?

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  • soo i only read 2pages of this post and im already dieing with laughter.. thank you everyone :)

     

    ps. ITS A VAGINA; not jesus! if it makes your baby safe to be checked then do it! They are what is most important not your fear or belief of it being TOUCHED.

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  • imagemajorwife:

    imageLilCMom:
    This is such a weird question. I wonder if you have some other reason for not wanting people up in your vag...like, is your fiance giving you crap about it? Are you scared of it? Believe me, by the time you are done with this pregnancy your vag will have been checked so many times you won't even notice anymore.
    not so much as that but I hope the OP wasn't abused in some way.

    I hope that is not the reason for your fears OP but if they are, I am sure there is someone your doc can refer to you to talk to before labor.

    Good luck!

    This is what I was thinking too. I'm a rape victim and used to find pelvic exams to be very painful and yes, torture. When I was pregnant with DS1 and was considering doulas one of them asked me about sexual abuse as a routine question. She said that being sexually assaulted can make pelvic exams very painfull even if the victim doesn't remember the abuse. I went to therapy and I did ok by the time I had DS1. I still don't like getting yearly paps but who does? I would say that now my discomfort is in the normal ranger.

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  • I am sorry I am really lurking but I just have to. YOU WILL NOT GET ADMITTED INTO A ROOM WITHOUT A VAGINAL EXAM. Sorry it just wont happen. Hospitals are a money operated BUSINESS so if you come in stating you're in labor they will examine you to make sure you are even dilated before they put you in a LDR room. If you are just sitting in there at one centimeter for hours on end they are not making money of you when they could be from someone else which is why they give the exams. Even if your water breaks and you come in GUESS WHAT! They are going to stick a test strip in your vagina to test the PH levels to make sure you are in labor. Vaginal Exams can be a vital part of labor, what if you do not get an exam and the umbilical cord is prolapsed guess what you wouldn't know. Oh and if that happens the doctor will be sticking their whole hand up your vagina and probably part of their arm to move the head and relieve the pressure. So good luck with this whole no vaginal exams. You can refuse them from your doctor but in order to get admitted to a room you have to get one. This is just crazy to me.
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  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    Oh okay, I will go ask the doctors involved in the studies I read, perhaps I'll send a letter to the author of the book "Male Practice" and ask him If i can avoid vaginal exams and still receive an epidural on my terms. Thanks for basically answering my question with "I don't know and no one else on here does either." Why even post?

    You are asking a question (whether you can get an epi without being vaginally checked) on a message board that is you should be asking your OB.  What did you expect to happen?  There might be some nesties on here that are doctors, but I'm guessing the majority aren't.  So why are you getting upset that we don't know the answer to or aren't giving you the answer you want?  Regardless of what anyone says on here anyways, whether you get checked or not isn't up to us.

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  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imageRNmommyof2:

    I have never heard of this blue line business, but if it were true, don't you think that's what the doctors would use? It's much easier to look at someone's back than to glove up, lube up, and stick your hand up someone's vagina.

    We are not turkeys. It's not like we get blue lines up our backs and then our noses light up red when we're complete and ready to push.

     

    You just completely debunked a legitimate way of seeing how far dilated a woman is based on the fact that we are not Turkeys. haha. some Midwives use this technique it is real...I just don't know how reliable it is or if every women gets it etc.  There is now a blood test to test for cervical cancer that is more accurate than pap smears yet it is not being offered to women...so I don't have a ton of faith in doctors doing what is best over what is easiest for them/what has always been done.

     

    you sound slightly insane. I had cervical cancer. and we are super lucky to be having out LO and without a pap they would have never caught it. And i will tell you damn loud and clear IT WAS NOT EASY FOR THE DOCTOR OR I GETTING RID OF IT. So just because you've been lucky doesnt mean you will always be so dont trash on other people either. Also I am constantly getting checked and its for the safety of me and the baby! Ive never herd of a blood test for CC nor would i believe it; if you dont like our reply's then why are you still responding?

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  • You cannot compare apples to oranges here.

    With a pap they are looking for abnormal/atypical/normal cells -- a VE is strictly a manual exam used to assess anatomy.

    You're being damn ridiculous.
  • 3rd time posting on this but i just had to throw in... Michelle Duggar gets paps done.. shes like jesus's wife over there lol cant really think its that "torturous" to me, uncomfortable yes; completely worth it in the end yes!
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  • Enjoy puerperal fever!

    Dude, I'm so confused. Even the crunchiest ladies I've ever heard of are cool with internal exams.



    Click me, click me!
    image
  • imagekrisdemeanor:

    I will be posting what I researched and google is the gateway to many scientific studies, books, and other literature that are very reliable. And you cannot be wrong about an opinion. It is my opinion that the very little worth an asymptomatic woman would get out of an annual pap is not worth the risks associated with it....again, in my opinion.

    My opinion is that this bolded part is stupid.

    image

  • imagekrisdemeanor:
    imageALHolli:

    I couldn't get past "I don't believe in vaginal exams." It's not Judaism or Santa Claus, it's a medical procedure. It's not like your "disbelief" is going to wipe it off the earth... It exists for a very valid reason.

    Sure hope you never end up with HPV or cervical cancer.

     

    Okay, I do not participate in these procedures because I believe the necessity  for them does not exist...like Santa clause. I do not understand your necessity to make fun of someone and offer no valuable information. wtf? 

    wait......WHAT, there is no Santa Claus??????

    Christmas is ruined.

      

  • New lurker here...

    I am also a survivor, and yes, paps have been horrible for me.  But it's gotten better.

    I also tested positive for pre-cancerous cells on my cervix... so if I'd never had that pap, I might not be here today.

    I am also against medical interventions during birth... but I've had to allow them to save my babies.

    Check out this link.  It may help.   https://rainn.org/

     

     

     

     

  • Regarding sources:  She did provide one, a book by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, written almost 30 years ago (!) called "Male Practice".  I have a feeling this is the source of her ideas.  Here is a quote from a synopsis of the book I found:

    "In 1980, the American Medical Association did finally abandon its support for the routine annual physical, and the American Cancer Society for routine annual mammography, pap smears, and chest X-rays. It took too long, but they had to cave in because of the overwhelming evidence that these procedures are actually dangerous, not just no good. In the case of the pap smear, many of the tests are inaccurate and unproven to begin with, and these deficiencies are compounded by false interpretation and inefficient, careless work in the labs. Medical testing laboratories are scandalously inaccurate."

    https://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990817225708

    Nothing like basing you and your baby's health off 30 year old, unsubstantiated "research"!

    BabyFetus Ticker
  • PS the book is out of print now.  Great, useful, relevant research ususally goes out of print.  <sarcasm>
    BabyFetus Ticker
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