OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker
I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha
I think there's more to this than you may be letting on but that is your own story. I've never found a routine pap to be torturous. Inconvenient and uncomfortable, maybe. But also quick and an important part of women's health. Many STI's and infections do not exhibit symptoms in women but paps and evaluations/examinations find them. So your opinion about asympomatic women is very off.
That being said I was not checked "routinely" through the last month of my pregnancy. I was checked several times during labour by my midwives and then an OB who determined through this examination that the baby was in a bad position and quickly had to be removed.
It is ok to be uncomfortable about the examinations but to turn that discomfort into a sweeping generalization that flies in the face of modern medicine and women's health publications is outrageous and that is why you are receiving incredulous feedback. I know that personally I'm really hoping you're able to find someone to deal with these hang ups before they become dangerous or too hard for you to deal with during labour.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised. I get that it seems outrageous but when I read something that is so ridiculous I cannot believe it...I go research it and decide for myself...I don't automatically dismiss it as false...would it really be so out of this world to find out that our vaginas are not as prone to sickness and infection as we once thought? Or that there are modern medical advances that make paps obsolete yet are being withheld from the public simply because you can bill a lot more for a pelvic. Look up the blood test that should have already replaced pap tests it is patented...it is just being stalled and buried. What it really comes down to is a matter of opinion...I did not once attack any of these ladies for having the opinion that a pap is important, or that VEs during labor are super necessary even tho my opinion disagrees....yet I feel quite attacked for simply stating that it is my opinion...through hours of research....that it is not necessary for me, personally and possibly others that feel like I do and are also low risk for any complications. I do have underlying issues which i thought would be so ridiculously obvious to most women on here. haha I guess not - most women on here seemed happy to make fun of me.
I just want your research on all these things cited so I can read exactly what you are reading. Why can you not do that? I have only asked 3 times.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
I would just like to say the technically it is a cervical exam. They just have to get through your cervix through the vagina. I was also going to add that you can get the urge to push long before you are fully dilated and pushing before you ate fully dilated is not a good thing. I really don't think any doctor will give you an epi without checking you first. Sorry to say. I am usually not one to just do what the doctor says and have refused some standard stuff because my research made me think it was not necessary so I can understand where you are coming from in the op but later on you make it sound like its a psychological issue. So maybe finding a good therapist would be the best option for you. I would hate for you or your baby to be put in harms way due to this.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised.
And right there is the problem with your "research." You only looked for things that said that pap smears were "unimportant." What about doing a search for the importance of the pap smear?? True research doesn't involve only looking for things that agree with what you've already decided must be true.
You're NOT ok with basic vaginal exams to determine the status of your cervix and child, a practice that is drug free and aside from the akward factor is minimally invasive - but you're OK with having a drug injected into your spinal column to make you essentially temporarily paralyzed in the lower half of your body so that you do not have to feel the pain of birth...?
Do I have that right?
If so - I'm not touching this conversation with a ten foot pole.
This 1000000000% It doesn't make sense to me but to each it's own I guess.....
Well I'm pretty sure the only way to know when you're ready to push besides exams is the urge to push and seeing a head. So try NOT having an epi and I'm not sure how your hospitals going to feel about the no exams part. My hospital REQUIRES at least a minimal amount of exams....
I'm SURE this has all been covered, but would just like to point out- I had a COMPLETELY asymptomatic vaginal infection for several months that is probably the cause of my 1st miscarriage. Afterwards, it continued for several months. We only know this bc of how high it was in my tubes and FINALLY giving me symptoms. It took several rounds of a really scary antibiotic, along with anti-fungal meds to clear it. I had trouble with it for almost 3 years. So. You can asymptomatic and be hurting your child AND your fertility. And yourSELF. I felt so crappy, but wasn't sick. Just run down. Thought it was the m/c, but those don't typically take several months to recover from. Never having been thru it, I had no idea. Also, I am pretty sure that if you refuse to get checked, they will refuse the epidural. They check you for a reason, not for kicks.
Now all of that was just completely unhelpful and not what she actually asked. Don't you get the point of these boards? Really! We are only here to give validation and support to something we have stated is not something we can help her answer. None of us have been around here very long, so we need to start taking notes.
**Sorry for your loss**
Thanks for saying that...and having a miscarriage and being "run down" for months afterwards hardly sounds asymptomatic. I really thought I would find support here but all anyone wants to do is tell me I am wrong about my opinion. I was reading posts from newly posted on back and so I missed some of the really helpful comments made by you and some others...I appreciate it.
This is all crazy to me but I'd just like to state without question that there is NO blood test for HPV. That's not even possible, b/c the infection only lives in particular cells (in your cervix in this case). They can tell if you have cancer with blood tests but by then it's kind of too late. I was a scientist for a biotech company that makes the HPV test (which is done with cervical cells) for 3.5 years, so I kind of know some things about this.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.
Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.
OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker
I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha
I think there's more to this than you may be letting on but that is your own story. I've never found a routine pap to be torturous. Inconvenient and uncomfortable, maybe. But also quick and an important part of women's health. Many STI's and infections do not exhibit symptoms in women but paps and evaluations/examinations find them. So your opinion about asympomatic women is very off.
That being said I was not checked "routinely" through the last month of my pregnancy. I was checked several times during labour by my midwives and then an OB who determined through this examination that the baby was in a bad position and quickly had to be removed.
It is ok to be uncomfortable about the examinations but to turn that discomfort into a sweeping generalization that flies in the face of modern medicine and women's health publications is outrageous and that is why you are receiving incredulous feedback. I know that personally I'm really hoping you're able to find someone to deal with these hang ups before they become dangerous or too hard for you to deal with during labour.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised. I get that it seems outrageous but when I read something that is so ridiculous I cannot believe it...I go research it and decide for myself...I don't automatically dismiss it as false...would it really be so out of this world to find out that our vaginas are not as prone to sickness and infection as we once thought? Or that there are modern medical advances that make paps obsolete yet are being withheld from the public simply because you can bill a lot more for a pelvic. Look up the blood test that should have already replaced pap tests it is patented...it is just being stalled and buried. What it really comes down to is a matter of opinion...I did not once attack any of these ladies for having the opinion that a pap is important, or that VEs during labor are super necessary even tho my opinion disagrees....yet I feel quite attacked for simply stating that it is my opinion...through hours of research....that it is not necessary for me, personally and possibly others that feel like I do and are also low risk for any complications. I do have underlying issues which i thought would be so ridiculously obvious to most women on here. haha I guess not - most women on here seemed happy to make fun of me.
Again, can you please direct me to these studies? Google is not a scientific search, and most results are not scientific in nature. As a scientist, I do not believe that google=research. Research=speaking to or reading and understanding primary peer reviewered studies. And if you have done that you should have no problem posting the links.
And please, read the link I posted on page three. It is a comprehensive overview on the medical benefit of routine pap screening.
You are certainly entitled to simply not be comfortable with vaginal exams. I do not know your personal history but I suspect you have good reason to be uncomfortable with them. It is your right and no one can tell you how to feel about a medical procedure.
However, I take serious issue with your claim that paps are not medically beneficial. You are simply wrong on that front.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker
I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha
I think there's more to this than you may be letting on but that is your own story. I've never found a routine pap to be torturous. Inconvenient and uncomfortable, maybe. But also quick and an important part of women's health. Many STI's and infections do not exhibit symptoms in women but paps and evaluations/examinations find them. So your opinion about asympomatic women is very off.
That being said I was not checked "routinely" through the last month of my pregnancy. I was checked several times during labour by my midwives and then an OB who determined through this examination that the baby was in a bad position and quickly had to be removed.
It is ok to be uncomfortable about the examinations but to turn that discomfort into a sweeping generalization that flies in the face of modern medicine and women's health publications is outrageous and that is why you are receiving incredulous feedback. I know that personally I'm really hoping you're able to find someone to deal with these hang ups before they become dangerous or too hard for you to deal with during labour.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised. I get that it seems outrageous but when I read something that is so ridiculous I cannot believe it...I go research it and decide for myself...I don't automatically dismiss it as false...would it really be so out of this world to find out that our vaginas are not as prone to sickness and infection as we once thought? Or that there are modern medical advances that make paps obsolete yet are being withheld from the public simply because you can bill a lot more for a pelvic. Look up the blood test that should have already replaced pap tests it is patented...it is just being stalled and buried. What it really comes down to is a matter of opinion...I did not once attack any of these ladies for having the opinion that a pap is important, or that VEs during labor are super necessary even tho my opinion disagrees....yet I feel quite attacked for simply stating that it is my opinion...through hours of research....that it is not necessary for me, personally and possibly others that feel like I do and are also low risk for any complications. I do have underlying issues which i thought would be so ridiculously obvious to most women on here. haha I guess not - most women on here seemed happy to make fun of me.
Again, can you please direct me to these studies? Google is not a scientific search, and most results are not scientific in nature. As a scientist, I do not believe that google=research. Research=speaking to or reading and understanding primary peer reviewered studies. And if you have done that you should have no problem posting the links.
And please, read the link I posted on page three. It is a comprehensive overview on the medical benefit of routine pap screening.
You are certainly entitled to simply not be comfortable with vaginal exams. I do not know your personal history but I suspect you have good reason to be uncomfortable with them. It is your right and no one can tell you how to feel about a medical procedure.
However, I take serious issue with your claim that paps are not medically beneficial. You are simply wrong on that front.
Nice to see I'm not the only one being ignored when asking for where she did her research. I want to read what she is reading. Maybe I will find it valid, maybe I won't, I just want to see where she is getting her info.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Ok. I have finally read this entire string. I suspect that the OP may be a victim of sexual assault or childhood molestation. It is the only explanation that makes any senseto me. For victims, and I speak as one, PAP smears are a totally different experience. They really can be a kind of torture. I had one care provided that was so rough with me that I experienced symptoms of PTSD all over again and had to return to counseling. I am sure that sounds nuts but it is what it is. It is also only my experience. If the OP is also a victim - it may explain this whole thread.
That would make more sense, but why not just say that to begin with? Why start out saying it is an unnecessary procedure?
:::shrugs:::: Everyone has different comfort levels. It is certainly not info that I reveal about myself on a first meeting. I just hope that the latest revelation about PTSD is not MUD and a way to take the heat off. Because then I might go BSC.
I get that it is something you might not be comfortable revealing right away, but I does seem like another addition to the MUD. BTW I'm sorry for what happened to you.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
Ok. I have finally read this entire string. I suspect that the OP may be a victim of sexual assault or childhood molestation. It is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. For victims, and I speak as one, PAP smears are a totally different experience. They really can be a kind of torture. I had one care provided that was so rough with me that I experienced symptoms of PTSD all over again and had to return to counseling. I am sure that sounds nuts but it is what it is. It is also only my experience. If the OP is also a victim - it may explain this whole thread.
This is what I am thinking too.
When I had ds, they did several cervical checks and never once was it torture. The only thing that was really uncomfortable was when my doctor broke my water and I wouldn't even consider that torture. After the epi, I never even felt them when they checked my cervix.
If you want a medical intervention you have to follow their rules.
No doctor is going to tell you what you want to hear because anything can happen during your labor can they can not make guareentees because it would be their medical license on the line. Not gonna happen.
If you want limited vag access...go as natural as you can. Go to a MW based practice, study other ways of cooping with pain. Get a doula. But guess what...when a baby comes out of your vag it needs to be checked on occasion. It's just how babies come out. Like it or not it is what it is.
Ok. I have finally read this entire string. I suspect that the OP may be a victim of sexual assault or childhood molestation. It is the only explanation that makes any senseto me. For victims, and I speak as one, PAP smears are a totally different experience. They really can be a kind of torture. I had one care provided that was so rough with me that I experienced symptoms of PTSD all over again and had to return to counseling. I am sure that sounds nuts but it is what it is. It is also only my experience. If the OP is also a victim - it may explain this whole thread.
That would make more sense, but why not just say that to begin with? Why start out saying it is an unnecessary procedure?
:::shrugs:::: Everyone has different comfort levels. It is certainly not info that I reveal about myself on a first meeting. I just hope that the latest revelation about PTSD is not MUD and a way to take the heat off. Because then I might go BSC.
I get that it is something you might not be comfortable revealing right away, but I does seem like another addition to the MUD. BTW I'm sorry for what happened to you.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
You only looked for information that would support your need to not be checked. You need to seek therapy for what happened to you.
I respect your right to decline paps but you are putting yourself at risk for undiagnosed cancer, which could ultimately kill you. Like a PP said, there are no blood tests for HPV because the cells only live in your cervix.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
Again, you are entitled to your choices, but not entitled to spread misinformation without call out or consequence.
As for the bolded, I hope you are right. As a current cancer patient, I assure you that chemo and the potential to leave my child motherless is pretty effing awful too. And since cervical cancer is one of the leading causes of cancer death worldwide, I sincerely hope for you that ignorance is bliss.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
Really? since I am okay with having sex with my fiancee I should be okay with all vagina related issues? That's a ridiculous mentality. but thanks for being judgmental and completely not helpful!
In my opinion, yes, you should be ok with vagina-related issues if you're going to be sexually active. It's part of the territory and that's not a ridculous mentality. I see no reason why any doctor should give you what you want if they don't feel like they have all of the information they need in order to know that it's medically necessary. This is just bizarre. It's like asking for antibiotics without letting a doctor check if you have strep throat first, or saying you need vicodin for a kidney stone you're pretty sure you have but you're not going to let them verify.
By the way, you are SO lucky you're not having multiples or are high risk. Doctors are in my vag EVERY WEEK. And I absolutely want them to do it- for my safety and the babies' safety.
If it seriously impeded them from safely giving me an epidural in their professional opinion...and didn't just make them work a little harder to assess where I am at then of course Ill allow it to be done.but if it is just easier, quicker, and procedure then I am not all for it as it causes a great amount of distress and pain for me which we all know is not good for a laboring woman and child. I would have to be truly convinced that they were worried about giving me medication because they truly could not figure out what point I was at. I am just trying to figure out if it is unnecessary in the way that I've found pelvic exams and paps to be. I am glad you are okay with getting paps and VEs done...truly wish I could be okay with it too but I am not and can't be so please do not tell me to be okay with something just because I chose to indulge in the incredibly human act of making love to my fiancee.
Yes, because the vaginal check is going to be the worse part of labor. You need to ask your freaking doctor what their policy is, not a bunch of internet strangers.
For many people it is the worst part of labor.
I haven't even been through it yet and I can pretty confidently say that whoever told you that was lying to you.
The hostility is coming from the way you presented your question - if you had said "I have anxiety issues when it comes to vaginal exams, etc, is there anything I can do to help or limit this during labor?" the responses would have been MUCH different.
Honestly, I think your research about the unnecessary nature of them is a direct result of your level of discomfort with them. And you've just convinced yourself that you need to spew research to others to solidify your stance.
That said, I really do think you are not going to find answers here - what you are asking is not something any person here can answer for you. You need to talk to doctors and/or midwives about things. And probably a therapist (not being snarky, I really thing talking to someone about your apparent issues could help).
You don't even need to just get through labor - at the end of your pregnancy they have to test you for Group B strep - it's done with a swab inside your vagina and one around the outside of it. I'm not aware of any other way to test for this and if you're positive and don't know it, they can't give you the antibiotics you need during labor to ensure you don't pass it on to your baby.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
Again, you are entitled to your choices, but not entitled to spread misinformation without call out or consequence.
As for the bolded, I hope you are right. As a current cancer patient, I assure you that chemo and the potential to leave my child motherless is pretty effing awful too. And since cervical cancer is one of the leading causes of cancer death worldwide, I sincerely hope for you that ignorance is bliss.
My mother had cervical cancer and I am beyond sorry that you have to endure that. I know it was a very hard road for her with treatments and surgeries and my heart immediately has broken for you. I wish you all the best and good luck with your treatments.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
No, You will have to have vaginal exams through out labor. If you get an epi right away then you won't feel it. Also, you'll have to have a cath placed, which is just about enough to keep me from getting an epi.
What I don't understand is why you can't ask a question without people being rude and judgmental. Though, I think it is a little silly to not want to be checked if you won't feel it...but I am not going to say something snarky and mean to make myself feel better. Maybe you should talk to your doctor and take a birthing class at your hospital and ask them as well.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised.
And right there is the problem with your "research." You only looked for things that said that pap smears were "unimportant." What about doing a search for the importance of the pap smear?? True research doesn't involve only looking for things that agree with what you've already decided must be true.
Are you kidding? ofcourse I looked up the reverse as well. However, the only information i got was the same that everyone already knows...the reasons that everybody goes to this doctor..early detection of cancer and STDS, etc. just the same stuff that has been drilled in our heads since we were old enough to know what our vaginas are for. I did not find any compelling evidence that VEs were unnecessary during childbirth...just that excessive VEs can cause complications such as infections. So, its not like i just look for what I want the answer to be and then stick to it...this was truly an informed decision.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised.
And right there is the problem with your "research." You only looked for things that said that pap smears were "unimportant." What about doing a search for the importance of the pap smear?? True research doesn't involve only looking for things that agree with what you've already decided must be true.
Are you kidding? ofcourse I looked up the reverse as well. However, the only information i got was the same that everyone already knows...the reasons that everybody goes to this doctor..early detection of cancer and STDS, etc. just the same stuff that has been drilled in our heads since we were old enough to know what our vaginas are for. I did not find any compelling evidence that VEs were unnecessary during childbirth...just that excessive VEs can cause complications such as infections. So, its not like i just look for what I want the answer to be and then stick to it...this was truly an informed decision.
Then once again the only person who can help you with your concerns are your providers. Talk with them about your concerns, your fears of being touched and your research. We can not offer any other help or advice.
I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.
Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.
Ofcourse I am getting prenatal care, I also take my vitamins and I eat organic. But thanks for the concern. Many doctors will actually not do a pap during pregnancy because the hormones can cause a false positive and even if abnormal cells are detected it is not treated untill after baby is born. Not to mention the risk of preterm labor...you are taking a sample from the cervix...not all doctors hold this belief but enough mainstream doctors do...so much so that in my experience with 2 doctors I told them both "I will not be getting a pap" and both of them said they didn't do them until after pregnancy. And i don't know if anybody told you but the internet is full of valuable information...it is the main research tool used today. However, I have also read tangible books on this subject...is that acceptable research to you?
I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.
Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.
Ofcourse I am getting prenatal care, I also take my vitamins and I eat organic. But thanks for the concern. Many doctors will actually not do a pap during pregnancy because the hormones can cause a false positive and even if abnormal cells are detected it is not treated untill after baby is born. Not to mention the risk of preterm labor...you are taking a sample from the cervix...not all doctors hold this belief but enough mainstream doctors do...so much so that in my experience with 2 doctors I told them both "I will not be getting a pap" and both of them said they didn't do them until after pregnancy. And i don't know if anybody told you but the internet is full of valuable information...it is the main research tool used today. However, I have also read tangible books on this subject...is that acceptable research to you?
I am convinced you are just AWing now. Clearly you don't know how to take advice of what was given in 5 pages and leave it at that. You just keep going and going and going and going like the energizer bunny back and forth telling everyone why you are right. Awesome. Let it go.
I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.
Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.
Ofcourse I am getting prenatal care, I also take my vitamins and I eat organic. But thanks for the concern. Many doctors will actually not do a pap during pregnancy because the hormones can cause a false positive and even if abnormal cells are detected it is not treated untill after baby is born. Not to mention the risk of preterm labor...you are taking a sample from the cervix...not all doctors hold this belief but enough mainstream doctors do...so much so that in my experience with 2 doctors I told them both "I will not be getting a pap" and both of them said they didn't do them until after pregnancy. And i don't know if anybody told you but the internet is full of valuable information...it is the main research tool used today. However, I have also read tangible books on this subject...is that acceptable research to you?
What books please? And what internet sources?
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Ok. I have finally read this entire string. I suspect that the OP may be a victim of sexual assault or childhood molestation. It is the only explanation that makes any senseto me. For victims, and I speak as one, PAP smears are a totally different experience. They really can be a kind of torture. I had one care provided that was so rough with me that I experienced symptoms of PTSD all over again and had to return to counseling. I am sure that sounds nuts but it is what it is. It is also only my experience. If the OP is also a victim - it may explain this whole thread.
That would make more sense, but why not just say that to begin with? Why start out saying it is an unnecessary procedure?
:::shrugs:::: Everyone has different comfort levels. It is certainly not info that I reveal about myself on a first meeting. I just hope that the latest revelation about PTSD is not MUD and a way to take the heat off. Because then I might go BSC.
I get that it is something you might not be comfortable revealing right away, but I does seem like another addition to the MUD. BTW I'm sorry for what happened to you.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
I am terribly sorry for whatever happened to you before becoming pregnant that has you fearing paps and pelvic exams. I completely understand how this could be incredibly hard for you. However, I am disturbed about what I've bolded above. You need prenatal care for your unborn child. A gynecologist, a midwife...anyone professionally trained and accredited to do so. You cannot maintain the heath of your child through Google. There are so many things that can happen during a pregnancy. A lot of things can be prevented or treated with the help of a doctor. If you are scared, discuss this with your doctor. Bring your DH/SO, have a nurse in the room with you, get a female doctor....whatever helps you.
I will say though that no hospital is going to give you an epidural without a cervical exam. Also, with an epidural they will probably catheterize you and stitch you if neccesary. There are several medical interventions that require a vaginal exam during labor. If you want to minimize the amount of interventions, I would look into a natural childbirth at home with a trained and licensed midwife. Good luck to you!
Our angel is in heaven 12/12/08 BFP 2/25/09 HCG 3/6=518 3/8=1230 1st Ultrasound 3/18 FHR=103 2nd U/S 3/20 FHR=118!! 3rd U/S 4/1 FHR=169 BIG U/S 5/22=IT'S A BOY! FHR-148 DS Born October 30, 2009 BFP 5/27/11 Stick baby, stick! HCG 5/31=140 P=9 HCG 6/2=292 P=11 1ST Ultrasound 6/15 FHR=109!! U/S 8/18=IT'S A BOY! FHR-141
OMG thank you February! I don't see how you can go from stating that vaginal exams and PAPs are unnecessary procedures to being scared of them. Oh wait, you can if you are a MUDdy backtracker
I don't understand the hostility - really I do not know why everyone is up in arms over this. I always had a problem with VEs and paps -- I never wanted to get one for some really compelling reasons...so I did some research to see if I really had to subject myself to this torture - which is not me being dramatic...or maybe it is...but that is how it feels to me. I found sooo much evidence that paps and vaginal exams were basically useless in asymptomatic women that I adopted the belief system that they are outdated and potentially harmful procedures. I find this easier to discuss than my fear of the exam it also seems to be easier for people to understand...although maybe not after reading these responses. haha
I think there's more to this than you may be letting on but that is your own story. I've never found a routine pap to be torturous. Inconvenient and uncomfortable, maybe. But also quick and an important part of women's health. Many STI's and infections do not exhibit symptoms in women but paps and evaluations/examinations find them. So your opinion about asympomatic women is very off.
That being said I was not checked "routinely" through the last month of my pregnancy. I was checked several times during labour by my midwives and then an OB who determined through this examination that the baby was in a bad position and quickly had to be removed.
It is ok to be uncomfortable about the examinations but to turn that discomfort into a sweeping generalization that flies in the face of modern medicine and women's health publications is outrageous and that is why you are receiving incredulous feedback. I know that personally I'm really hoping you're able to find someone to deal with these hang ups before they become dangerous or too hard for you to deal with during labour.
Thats just it tho, there is nothing modern about gyncecology - it is archaic! I urge you to do a simple google search of the unimportance of the pap smear you will truly be surprised. I get that it seems outrageous but when I read something that is so ridiculous I cannot believe it...I go research it and decide for myself...I don't automatically dismiss it as false...would it really be so out of this world to find out that our vaginas are not as prone to sickness and infection as we once thought? Or that there are modern medical advances that make paps obsolete yet are being withheld from the public simply because you can bill a lot more for a pelvic. Look up the blood test that should have already replaced pap tests it is patented...it is just being stalled and buried. What it really comes down to is a matter of opinion...I did not once attack any of these ladies for having the opinion that a pap is important, or that VEs during labor are super necessary even tho my opinion disagrees....yet I feel quite attacked for simply stating that it is my opinion...through hours of research....that it is not necessary for me, personally and possibly others that feel like I do and are also low risk for any complications. I do have underlying issues which i thought would be so ridiculously obvious to most women on here. haha I guess not - most women on here seemed happy to make fun of me.
Again, can you please direct me to these studies? Google is not a scientific search, and most results are not scientific in nature. As a scientist, I do not believe that google=research. Research=speaking to or reading and understanding primary peer reviewered studies. And if you have done that you should have no problem posting the links.
And please, read the link I posted on page three. It is a comprehensive overview on the medical benefit of routine pap screening.
You are certainly entitled to simply not be comfortable with vaginal exams. I do not know your personal history but I suspect you have good reason to be uncomfortable with them. It is your right and no one can tell you how to feel about a medical procedure.
However, I take serious issue with your claim that paps are not medically beneficial. You are simply wrong on that front.
I will be posting what I researched and google is the gateway to many scientific studies, books, and other literature that are very reliable. And you cannot be wrong about an opinion. It is my opinion that the very little worth an asymptomatic woman would get out of an annual pap is not worth the risks associated with it....again, in my opinion.
Oh okay, I will go ask the doctors involved in the studies I read, perhaps I'll send a letter to the author of the book "Male Practice" and ask him If i can avoid vaginal exams and still receive an epidural on my terms. Thanks for basically answering my question with "I don't know and no one else on here does either." Why even post?
I think what others were meaning by this was that your doctor would be the best person to talk about your wishes. Then they can educate you on other options if there are any. Honestly, I'm not sure if there are other ways to tell, but your OB or MW would be the ones educated enough to tell you about them if there are. Also, along the lines of no vaginal exams, there are health concersn that could be concerning to your baby that could be prevented or treated if they are able to do an exam. Has your OB not suggested this or educated you on this? That seems odd to me. Only you know your history, but not all infections, etc have genetic indications. We should know that just by watching commercials on TV. I do find this a little unusual because this is a routine procedure, I really don't believe that this is something a dr. would recommend to make more money, they are so common they surely don't make that much off of them anymore. Just really think about your beliefs, what's best for your baby and what's best for you. Talk it over with your OB or MW and find the way that works best.
OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Really? since I am okay with having sex with my fiancee I should be okay with all vagina related issues? That's a ridiculous mentality. but thanks for being judgmental and completely not helpful!
In my opinion, yes, you should be ok with vagina-related issues if you're going to be sexually active. It's part of the territory and that's not a ridculous mentality. I see no reason why any doctor should give you what you want if they don't feel like they have all of the information they need in order to know that it's medically necessary. This is just bizarre. It's like asking for antibiotics without letting a doctor check if you have strep throat first, or saying you need vicodin for a kidney stone you're pretty sure you have but you're not going to let them verify.
By the way, you are SO lucky you're not having multiples or are high risk. Doctors are in my vag EVERY WEEK. And I absolutely want them to do it- for my safety and the babies' safety.
If it seriously impeded them from safely giving me an epidural in their professional opinion...and didn't just make them work a little harder to assess where I am at then of course Ill allow it to be done.but if it is just easier, quicker, and procedure then I am not all for it as it causes a great amount of distress and pain for me which we all know is not good for a laboring woman and child. I would have to be truly convinced that they were worried about giving me medication because they truly could not figure out what point I was at. I am just trying to figure out if it is unnecessary in the way that I've found pelvic exams and paps to be. I am glad you are okay with getting paps and VEs done...truly wish I could be okay with it too but I am not and can't be so please do not tell me to be okay with something just because I chose to indulge in the incredibly human act of making love to my fiancee.
Yes, because the vaginal check is going to be the worse part of labor. You need to ask your freaking doctor what their policy is, not a bunch of internet strangers.
For many people it is the worst part of labor.
I haven't even been through it yet and I can pretty confidently say that whoever told you that was lying to you.
The hostility is coming from the way you presented your question - if you had said "I have anxiety issues when it comes to vaginal exams, etc, is there anything I can do to help or limit this during labor?" the responses would have been MUCH different.
Honestly, I think your research about the unnecessary nature of them is a direct result of your level of discomfort with them. And you've just convinced yourself that you need to spew research to others to solidify your stance.
That said, I really do think you are not going to find answers here - what you are asking is not something any person here can answer for you. You need to talk to doctors and/or midwives about things. And probably a therapist (not being snarky, I really thing talking to someone about your apparent issues could help).
You don't even need to just get through labor - at the end of your pregnancy they have to test you for Group B strep - it's done with a swab inside your vagina and one around the outside of it. I'm not aware of any other way to test for this and if you're positive and don't know it, they can't give you the antibiotics you need during labor to ensure you don't pass it on to your baby.
Many OBs will allow you to swab yourself for Group B. It is clear to me now that this was a bad idea...I don't understand why it is necessary to explain my fears, concerns and anxieties in order to get a civil response from these people. That doesn't seem right. What is with women tearing down women anyway? We are all in this together...i don't think someone who has a radical opinion deserves to be trampled and ridiculed when all they are looking for is some insight and answers.
Google is the gateway to many scientific studies, books, and other literature that are very reliable. And you cannot be wrong about an opinion. It is my opinion that the very little worth an asymptomatic woman would get out of an annual pap is not worth the risks associated with it....again, in my opinion.
Google is also the gateway to a great deal of crap prodced by many special interest groups and others who don't adhere to statistically reliable research methods. If you want reliable research, you need to pull it from peer reviewed journals. Consider EBSCO or other online periodical databases at your local library; that's where you'll find credible, reliable reaseach that's been thoroughly vetted.
If you are not a medical professional, your opinion could most certainly be wrong; especially when it's based on unreliable open-internet research and a personal predisposition to one point of view. You came here not for information, but to pick a fight. If you want information, ask your practitioner. What do we know? We're just the idiot lemmings heading over the cliff of obstetrical best practices.
haha ok how on earth did I want to pick a fight? I tried to make sure people only responded to my questions by explaining I have a different opinion and it cannot be changed and that it doesn't matter what other people's opinions are either...i just wanted a damn question answered without people tearing me down. I only joined to ask this one question! And I forgot that medical professionals are the only ones who can have an opinion that cannot be questioned.
OP I have been keeping up with this post as H is working late and I have nothing better to do but wait for your sources to be posted so I can educate myself on where you are coming from........and I have to say, I don't see you being ridiculed or trampled.
People may not say it in a way that is coated in sugar and flowers, but people are giving you their opinion on what you are asking about. People, in general, like to understand all aspects of an issue so they can accurately comment and post. So it does make a difference in knowing if you just "don't believe in something" versus you have PTSD.
Most posters gave their opinion, you just don't like how they are saying it or what they are saying.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.
I haven't even been through it yet and I can pretty confidently say that whoever told you that was lying to you.
The hostility is coming from the way you presented your question - if you had said "I have anxiety issues when it comes to vaginal exams, etc, is there anything I can do to help or limit this during labor?" the responses would have been MUCH different.
Honestly, I think your research about the unnecessary nature of them is a direct result of your level of discomfort with them. And you've just convinced yourself that you need to spew research to others to solidify your stance.
That said, I really do think you are not going to find answers here - what you are asking is not something any person here can answer for you. You need to talk to doctors and/or midwives about things. And probably a therapist (not being snarky, I really thing talking to someone about your apparent issues could help).
You don't even need to just get through labor - at the end of your pregnancy they have to test you for Group B strep - it's done with a swab inside your vagina and one around the outside of it. I'm not aware of any other way to test for this and if you're positive and don't know it, they can't give you the antibiotics you need during labor to ensure you don't pass it on to your baby.
Many OBs will allow you to swab yourself for Group B. It is clear to me now that this was a bad idea...I don't understand why it is necessary to explain my fears, concerns and anxieties in order to get a civil response from these people. That doesn't seem right. What is with women tearing down women anyway? We are all in this together...i don't think someone who has a radical opinion deserves to be trampled and ridiculed when all they are looking for is some insight and answers.
You are correct, if you ask, the OB may allow you to swab yourself, I was just simply pointing out yet another vagina-related issue that may come up for you.
But you really aren't listening to what anyone else is saying. Many of us (myself included) have tried to point out why you are getting the responses you are. Plain and simple, you didn't pose your question in a way that warranted the types of answers you were looking for. Saying "I think VEs are pointless" and whatever else you rambled really had NOTHING to do with what you actually wanted to know and WHY you wanted to know. Should you have to give the specific reason you don't like pelvic exams? of course not, but a simple mention that they cause you great anxiety/discomfort/whatever would have gone a long way.
Not to mention you keep talking about this "research" but won't actually tell anyone where to find it. Google can be good, but it can also lead to a lot of crap that looks legit.
You're getting the responses you're getting because you came onto a non-medical board for medical advice. You refused to listen to the responses you got, shooting them down with your "research", because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Then you continuously changed your story and reasoning, which doesn't look good. All of this in your first post on your first day.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.
People come on here and make stuff up? why?
oh man. I think you just need to step away from the internet
OP, if you suffered abuse that has led to your fear or vaginal exams, I truly am sorry for you. But your original question was not worded in a way that would suggest that, and that info would have changed the tone of your question and the answers you received. I still don't agree with your opinion that annual exams are unnecessary and I think you're putting yourself at great risk, but at least we would have understood the reasoning behind your fear. If you weren't comfortable sharing that info, then this isn't the right forum for this question. Your doctor a therapist would probably have been a better choice. That said, I'm still not convinced this isn't MUD, in which case the implication is truly sick.
People come on here and make stuff up? why?
Yes, shocking, isn't it?
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
I just fell in love. Don't tell DH. Although that would start that fight I m looking for....
Soon to be Big Sister Eowyn - DOB February 2012
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
I'm not going to touch the rest of your issues, but there is not a blood test for cervical HPV. That's not even possible. You can detect if someone has CANCER by blood tests, but not the virus because only the cervical cells are infected. And it's a good idea to try to stop cancer from progressing, which is why the Pap and the molecular HPV tests go for the virus.
Love,
A molecular biologist who worked on HPV diagnostics for 3.5 years
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Re: Refusing Vaginal Exams
I just want your research on all these things cited so I can read exactly what you are reading. Why can you not do that? I have only asked 3 times.
And right there is the problem with your "research." You only looked for things that said that pap smears were "unimportant." What about doing a search for the importance of the pap smear?? True research doesn't involve only looking for things that agree with what you've already decided must be true.
This 1000000000% It doesn't make sense to me but to each it's own I guess.....
Thanks for saying that...and having a miscarriage and being "run down" for months afterwards hardly sounds asymptomatic. I really thought I would find support here but all anyone wants to do is tell me I am wrong about my opinion. I was reading posts from newly posted on back and so I missed some of the really helpful comments made by you and some others...I appreciate it.
This is all crazy to me but I'd just like to state without question that there is NO blood test for HPV. That's not even possible, b/c the infection only lives in particular cells (in your cervix in this case). They can tell if you have cancer with blood tests but by then it's kind of too late. I was a scientist for a biotech company that makes the HPV test (which is done with cervical cells) for 3.5 years, so I kind of know some things about this.
I'm curious to know if you are getting prenatal care at all? If not shame on you. I can support you in not believing in paps, thats your perogative. However, now that you are pregnant you don't get to make choices like that anymore. Because it's not about you anymore. It's about your baby. So if this isn't mud than by all means please at least make sure you are getting proper prenatal care. That would include a Pap.
Oh & gynecology is archaic? Really? Medical Science is archaic. There have been no advances in medicine worth practicing anymore? Maybe to the laymen it is or those who think google searches for medical advise are worth making life choices off of.
Again, can you please direct me to these studies? Google is not a scientific search, and most results are not scientific in nature. As a scientist, I do not believe that google=research. Research=speaking to or reading and understanding primary peer reviewered studies. And if you have done that you should have no problem posting the links.
And please, read the link I posted on page three. It is a comprehensive overview on the medical benefit of routine pap screening.
You are certainly entitled to simply not be comfortable with vaginal exams. I do not know your personal history but I suspect you have good reason to be uncomfortable with them. It is your right and no one can tell you how to feel about a medical procedure.
However, I take serious issue with your claim that paps are not medically beneficial. You are simply wrong on that front.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
Nice to see I'm not the only one being ignored when asking for where she did her research. I want to read what she is reading. Maybe I will find it valid, maybe I won't, I just want to see where she is getting her info.
I don't know what MUD is! Is it like troll? haha Really no idea. But yeah, alright you figured out my dark secret as to why this is such a huge problem for me....but i truly do believe paps and pelvic are unnecessary and I found out this information because of my desperate need to avoid them...I was very relieved when I discovered that I could avoid going to the gynecologist and still maintain my health. It bothers me that people do not understand my reluctance to out myself as a survivor of something so terrible...I just wanted a question answered.
This is what I am thinking too.
When I had ds, they did several cervical checks and never once was it torture. The only thing that was really uncomfortable was when my doctor broke my water and I wouldn't even consider that torture. After the epi, I never even felt them when they checked my cervix.
Google is not research.
If you want a medical intervention you have to follow their rules.
No doctor is going to tell you what you want to hear because anything can happen during your labor can they can not make guareentees because it would be their medical license on the line. Not gonna happen.
If you want limited vag access...go as natural as you can. Go to a MW based practice, study other ways of cooping with pain. Get a doula. But guess what...when a baby comes out of your vag it needs to be checked on occasion. It's just how babies come out. Like it or not it is what it is.
You only looked for information that would support your need to not be checked. You need to seek therapy for what happened to you.
I respect your right to decline paps but you are putting yourself at risk for undiagnosed cancer, which could ultimately kill you. Like a PP said, there are no blood tests for HPV because the cells only live in your cervix.
Again, you are entitled to your choices, but not entitled to spread misinformation without call out or consequence.
As for the bolded, I hope you are right. As a current cancer patient, I assure you that chemo and the potential to leave my child motherless is pretty effing awful too. And since cervical cancer is one of the leading causes of cancer death worldwide, I sincerely hope for you that ignorance is bliss.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
I haven't even been through it yet and I can pretty confidently say that whoever told you that was lying to you.
The hostility is coming from the way you presented your question - if you had said "I have anxiety issues when it comes to vaginal exams, etc, is there anything I can do to help or limit this during labor?" the responses would have been MUCH different.
Honestly, I think your research about the unnecessary nature of them is a direct result of your level of discomfort with them. And you've just convinced yourself that you need to spew research to others to solidify your stance.
That said, I really do think you are not going to find answers here - what you are asking is not something any person here can answer for you. You need to talk to doctors and/or midwives about things. And probably a therapist (not being snarky, I really thing talking to someone about your apparent issues could help).
You don't even need to just get through labor - at the end of your pregnancy they have to test you for Group B strep - it's done with a swab inside your vagina and one around the outside of it. I'm not aware of any other way to test for this and if you're positive and don't know it, they can't give you the antibiotics you need during labor to ensure you don't pass it on to your baby.
LCT - 5.15.14 ~ 9lbs, 22.5 inches
My mother had cervical cancer and I am beyond sorry that you have to endure that. I know it was a very hard road for her with treatments and surgeries and my heart immediately has broken for you. I wish you all the best and good luck with your treatments.
No, You will have to have vaginal exams through out labor. If you get an epi right away then you won't feel it. Also, you'll have to have a cath placed, which is just about enough to keep me from getting an epi.
What I don't understand is why you can't ask a question without people being rude and judgmental. Though, I think it is a little silly to not want to be checked if you won't feel it...but I am not going to say something snarky and mean to make myself feel better. Maybe you should talk to your doctor and take a birthing class at your hospital and ask them as well.
GL
Are you kidding? ofcourse I looked up the reverse as well. However, the only information i got was the same that everyone already knows...the reasons that everybody goes to this doctor..early detection of cancer and STDS, etc. just the same stuff that has been drilled in our heads since we were old enough to know what our vaginas are for. I did not find any compelling evidence that VEs were unnecessary during childbirth...just that excessive VEs can cause complications such as infections. So, its not like i just look for what I want the answer to be and then stick to it...this was truly an informed decision.
Then once again the only person who can help you with your concerns are your providers. Talk with them about your concerns, your fears of being touched and your research. We can not offer any other help or advice.
Ofcourse I am getting prenatal care, I also take my vitamins and I eat organic. But thanks for the concern. Many doctors will actually not do a pap during pregnancy because the hormones can cause a false positive and even if abnormal cells are detected it is not treated untill after baby is born. Not to mention the risk of preterm labor...you are taking a sample from the cervix...not all doctors hold this belief but enough mainstream doctors do...so much so that in my experience with 2 doctors I told them both "I will not be getting a pap" and both of them said they didn't do them until after pregnancy. And i don't know if anybody told you but the internet is full of valuable information...it is the main research tool used today. However, I have also read tangible books on this subject...is that acceptable research to you?
I am convinced you are just AWing now. Clearly you don't know how to take advice of what was given in 5 pages and leave it at that. You just keep going and going and going and going like the energizer bunny back and forth telling everyone why you are right. Awesome. Let it go.
What books please? And what internet sources?
I am terribly sorry for whatever happened to you before becoming pregnant that has you fearing paps and pelvic exams. I completely understand how this could be incredibly hard for you. However, I am disturbed about what I've bolded above. You need prenatal care for your unborn child. A gynecologist, a midwife...anyone professionally trained and accredited to do so. You cannot maintain the heath of your child through Google. There are so many things that can happen during a pregnancy. A lot of things can be prevented or treated with the help of a doctor. If you are scared, discuss this with your doctor. Bring your DH/SO, have a nurse in the room with you, get a female doctor....whatever helps you.
I will say though that no hospital is going to give you an epidural without a cervical exam. Also, with an epidural they will probably catheterize you and stitch you if neccesary. There are several medical interventions that require a vaginal exam during labor. If you want to minimize the amount of interventions, I would look into a natural childbirth at home with a trained and licensed midwife. Good luck to you!
BFP 2/25/09
HCG 3/6=518 3/8=1230
1st Ultrasound 3/18 FHR=103
2nd U/S 3/20 FHR=118!!
3rd U/S 4/1 FHR=169
BIG U/S 5/22=IT'S A BOY! FHR-148
DS Born October 30, 2009
BFP 5/27/11 Stick baby, stick!
HCG 5/31=140 P=9 HCG 6/2=292 P=11
1ST Ultrasound 6/15 FHR=109!!
U/S 8/18=IT'S A BOY! FHR-141
I will be posting what I researched and google is the gateway to many scientific studies, books, and other literature that are very reliable. And you cannot be wrong about an opinion. It is my opinion that the very little worth an asymptomatic woman would get out of an annual pap is not worth the risks associated with it....again, in my opinion.
I think what others were meaning by this was that your doctor would be the best person to talk about your wishes. Then they can educate you on other options if there are any. Honestly, I'm not sure if there are other ways to tell, but your OB or MW would be the ones educated enough to tell you about them if there are. Also, along the lines of no vaginal exams, there are health concersn that could be concerning to your baby that could be prevented or treated if they are able to do an exam. Has your OB not suggested this or educated you on this? That seems odd to me. Only you know your history, but not all infections, etc have genetic indications. We should know that just by watching commercials on TV. I do find this a little unusual because this is a routine procedure, I really don't believe that this is something a dr. would recommend to make more money, they are so common they surely don't make that much off of them anymore. Just really think about your beliefs, what's best for your baby and what's best for you. Talk it over with your OB or MW and find the way that works best.
Many OBs will allow you to swab yourself for Group B. It is clear to me now that this was a bad idea...I don't understand why it is necessary to explain my fears, concerns and anxieties in order to get a civil response from these people. That doesn't seem right. What is with women tearing down women anyway? We are all in this together...i don't think someone who has a radical opinion deserves to be trampled and ridiculed when all they are looking for is some insight and answers.
haha ok how on earth did I want to pick a fight? I tried to make sure people only responded to my questions by explaining I have a different opinion and it cannot be changed and that it doesn't matter what other people's opinions are either...i just wanted a damn question answered without people tearing me down. I only joined to ask this one question! And I forgot that medical professionals are the only ones who can have an opinion that cannot be questioned.
OP I have been keeping up with this post as H is working late and I have nothing better to do but wait for your sources to be posted so I can educate myself on where you are coming from........and I have to say, I don't see you being ridiculed or trampled.
People may not say it in a way that is coated in sugar and flowers, but people are giving you their opinion on what you are asking about. People, in general, like to understand all aspects of an issue so they can accurately comment and post. So it does make a difference in knowing if you just "don't believe in something" versus you have PTSD.
Most posters gave their opinion, you just don't like how they are saying it or what they are saying.
People come on here and make stuff up? why?
You are correct, if you ask, the OB may allow you to swab yourself, I was just simply pointing out yet another vagina-related issue that may come up for you.
But you really aren't listening to what anyone else is saying. Many of us (myself included) have tried to point out why you are getting the responses you are. Plain and simple, you didn't pose your question in a way that warranted the types of answers you were looking for. Saying "I think VEs are pointless" and whatever else you rambled really had NOTHING to do with what you actually wanted to know and WHY you wanted to know. Should you have to give the specific reason you don't like pelvic exams? of course not, but a simple mention that they cause you great anxiety/discomfort/whatever would have gone a long way.
Not to mention you keep talking about this "research" but won't actually tell anyone where to find it. Google can be good, but it can also lead to a lot of crap that looks legit.
LCT - 5.15.14 ~ 9lbs, 22.5 inches
oh man. I think you just need to step away from the internet
LCT - 5.15.14 ~ 9lbs, 22.5 inches
::runs through naked::
LOOOOOK AT MEEEEEEEE
My family is a Foreign Service family. Families like mine are posted in every corner of the globe. We live our lives away from family, friends and the conviences and comforts of home. We often live and work in dangerous places among those that misunderstand our intentions and purposes. Sometimes members of our ranks sacrifice our lives to further diplomacy. Please remember that we serve too. And I'm always open to questions.
I'm not going to touch the rest of your issues, but there is not a blood test for cervical HPV. That's not even possible. You can detect if someone has CANCER by blood tests, but not the virus because only the cervical cells are infected. And it's a good idea to try to stop cancer from progressing, which is why the Pap and the molecular HPV tests go for the virus.
Love,
A molecular biologist who worked on HPV diagnostics for 3.5 years