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Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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Re: Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageSpenjamins:
    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    This.

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    You really, REALLY don't know what you're talking about until you've had a child. You have ZERO idea what fierce possessive love you will feel the second that child is placed in your arms after being born from your body. Perfect or imperfect, you have no idea how your world will change the second you realize you created life, no matter how short or how "unpretty" that life may be. You just don't get it. Period.

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageSpenjamins:
    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    This.

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    After your last reply to me, I was going to give you a chance and then you say something like this. Some people do feel that all babies are a gift from God! Just because you are saying what you feel does not mean that the rest of us are secretly lying! Just because someone feels that way does not mean that they are less of an adult than you!

    Every single person who has replied to this thread has real feelings on the subject. Being a martyr and constantly harping on how honest yours are does not mean that you're more of an adult than the rest of us.

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    imagejlthompson19:
    imageShlei:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

    I'm so sure your friends would tell you that they felt repulsion.  But maybe, just maybe they've told Spenjamins, considering she's a Psychiatrist.

    And as a phychiatrist, she should know better than to say every mother of a special needs child is repulsed.  I'm sure that there are women that feel that way, but she should know that it's NOT a universal feeling.  Knowing she is a psychiatrist who made that statement, only makes me judge her more.

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageChickpea2010:

    Are you supposed to stifle the things that naturally pop into their heads? Um, yes! Do you want them walking up to strangers in the grocery store and saying "ew, why are you so fat?!" Probably not. It's about teaching manners and respect! But I guess that's not important to you if you feel that it is "molding your children into something else."

    You keep saying that you're admitting your shortcomings like you are some sort of martyr, but you won't own up to the fact that what you said about disabled in your earlier threads is absolutely deplorable and disgusting.

    TO ME. They can voice whatever they want TO ME. I will of course teach acceptance (but not blind acceptance, but to ask questions) and to have manners. But home and family is a safe place.

    What did I say that was so disgusting? That I have had many occasions where disabled people were inappropriate? I have. Situations made me uncomfortable. Not all disabled people have boundary issues but it is my experience that the severely disabled ones do.

    I'm not sure why being put off by unrequested physical contact makes me deplorable and disgusting.

    Please... just stop.  You can't climb out of the hole you've dug for yourself.  You are a judgmental moron - we get it.

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    DelbyDelby member
    imagedisbride061103:

    Honestly, my opinion is that if you aren't prepared to raise a special needs child, then you aren't ready to be a parent.  Being a parent is dealing with what is thrown at you.  So what if your child doesn't have an obvious disability when they are born, but it is discovered several years later, are you going to give your child up then?  Say a terrible heart defect isn't detected until a child is 2ish.  They will have a lifetime of surgery and difficulty ahead of them.  Are you going to give up that child because of that disability?  To me there is absolutely no difference.

    I have a good friend who has a son with Downs Syndrome and sure they have struggles and issues but he is the HAPPIEST, SWEETEST child that I have ever met.  He is so caring and loving and I can't imagine the world without him.  If you spend 10  minutes talking to his mother you learn how much he has taught HER about life and love. 

    THIS x's 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

     

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    If spenjamins is truly a psychiatrist, I feel sorry for her patients.


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    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    You.need.to.stop.  

    Adults realize that there is more to being an adult than spewing every "honest" opinion that pops into their brains. 

    Your body, your choice, whatever.  WE GET IT.  It's the hatefulness and ignorance that's deplorable. 

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    imageTomkat8403:
    imagehollowstar:
    imageSpenjamins:

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    You really, REALLY don't know what you're talking about until you've had a child. You have ZERO idea what fierce possessive love you will feel the second that child is placed in your arms after being born from your body. Perfect or imperfect, you have no idea how your world will change the second you realize you created life, no matter how short or how "unpretty" that life may be. You just don't get it. Period.

    Tomkat- there are so many ways the op doesn't get it. It's not even worth it.

     Life can be very cruel to some people and it's all a crapshoot as to what ailment someone is going to get and when. You will unlikely be able to get through life without either being affected by illness or disability yourself or have a loved one affected by some kind of illness or disability. You probably won't "get it" until you're faced with it. In the meantime, I hope motherhood teaches you empathy. You sorely need it.

    And to say that parents of disabled children are repulsed by them is just gross.

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    imagejlthompson19:
    imageShlei:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

    I'm so sure your friends would tell you that they felt repulsion.  But maybe, just maybe they've told Spenjamins, considering she's a Psychiatrist.

    Please, you don't have many friends do you?

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    I'm just going to say that my response would have gotten me banned, so I shall keep it to myself.

    Crap I just read your last line and now I REALLY REALLY want to give my response, but yet again I will keep it to myself.

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    DelbyDelby member

    OH

    and you're right. giving up a baby for adoption doesnt mean you dont love it.  I was given up for adoption, and I'm sure it was probably the best thing my birth mother did. 

    BUT

    what does not say you "LOVE" your baby is giving it up because you would have rather aborted it due to the fact that you find the baby repulsive.

    YOU disgust me.

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    imagejennessey:
    imagehollowstar:
    imageChickpea2010:

    Are you supposed to stifle the things that naturally pop into their heads? Um, yes! Do you want them walking up to strangers in the grocery store and saying "ew, why are you so fat?!" Probably not. It's about teaching manners and respect! But I guess that's not important to you if you feel that it is "molding your children into something else."

    You keep saying that you're admitting your shortcomings like you are some sort of martyr, but you won't own up to the fact that what you said about disabled in your earlier threads is absolutely deplorable and disgusting.

    TO ME. They can voice whatever they want TO ME. I will of course teach acceptance (but not blind acceptance, but to ask questions) and to have manners. But home and family is a safe place.

    What did I say that was so disgusting? That I have had many occasions where disabled people were inappropriate? I have. Situations made me uncomfortable. Not all disabled people have boundary issues but it is my experience that the severely disabled ones do.

    I'm not sure why being put off by unrequested physical contact makes me deplorable and disgusting.

    Please... just stop.  You can't climb out of the hole you've dug for yourself.  You are a judgmental moron - we get it.

    Because your attitude suggests that they should have to be removed from your sight, kept out of public places (schools, pools, malls) lest they make others feel uncomfortable. This discomfort is so awful that it makes you all the more confident in aborting. The fact that DISCOMFORT is what makes you want to abort and avoid all special needs people is what disgusts me, not the fact that you want great things for your kids.

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    To be honest I would have,I am 31 and have 1 healthy boy age 11 and after finding out I am a carrier of norries disease a very rare genetic disorder My son was a blessing and the Dr

    s are amazed I did not pass it to him, Norries causes blindness/deafness and or mental retardation in boys. of ALL the women in my family who are carriers I am the only one who had the healthy boy, so finding out at 8 weeks I was a carrier and did not know the sex made e contemplate ending the pregnancy if I found out I passed the gene to a boy, I thought if the quality of life and knew someday I would be judged fro my actions but I had to live with it... once again I played russian roulette and after a CVS I found out I am having a normal girl... girls are not affected with the conditions of the disorder but she will probably be a carrier,. so when its her time to have a baby she will have to go thru the same testing I did. I am not by any means a bible beater or pro lifer, people have to do what they have to do, I do not think terminations are a form of birth control but again... everyone has to make their own choices.. their OWN without family or government stepping in, get the tests as soon as possible and think republican lol its not a baby till it can survive on its own, ignorance is bliss I guess,This is your life your choiuces, do what you have to for piece of mind and anyone else who doesnt like it, its always the naysayers that piss and whine about your desicions but the minute they are in your position they would do the same thing.. Put it in Gods hands and everything is gravy baby... 

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    imagemargeincharge2:
    imageTomkat8403:
    imagehollowstar:
    imageSpenjamins:

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    You really, REALLY don't know what you're talking about until you've had a child. You have ZERO idea what fierce possessive love you will feel the second that child is placed in your arms after being born from your body. Perfect or imperfect, you have no idea how your world will change the second you realize you created life, no matter how short or how "unpretty" that life may be. You just don't get it. Period.

    Tomkat- there are so many ways the op doesn't get it. It's not even worth it.

     Life can be very cruel to some people and it's all a crapshoot as to what ailment someone is going to get and when. You will unlikely be able to get through life without either being affected by illness or disability yourself or have a loved one affected by some kind of illness or disability. You probably won't "get it" until you're faced with it. In the meantime, I hope motherhood teaches you empathy. You sorely need it.

    And to say that parents of disabled children are repulsed by them is just gross.

    it isn't gross - it is a normal emotion that they deny feeling because they will get judged and ridiculed by naive, narrow-minded people.
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    imageEmmybean:

    I would like a list of OP's accomplishments, specifically those that have enriched the lives of others, so I can decide whether I think she should have been aborted or not.

    List or paragraph form, I'm not picky.

    1.  She has created one of the most deplorable posts in Bump history.

    2.  She has an awesome tat and belly ring that we've been lucky to see about 100 times in this thread.

     

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    I would never bring a baby into the world knowing it was going to have a serious disability or be genetically mutated. To me it is socially irresponsible.

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    Hey there - haven't been following closely (got really tired of this thread) but was scared to see the word "psychiatrist" thrown around, as I said earlier that I am a psychologist (people often mix these up) and am in no way connected with spenjamin's(sp?) comments. Just for the record:)
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    imageAt1stsight:

    DH is a pedi and one poor child was delivered very very early due to a terminal genetic malformation. The parents knew the baby would die very shortly after birth. They were in pain about it and didn't want to see the child because it was so hard. DH and his coworker shared time holding this baby for 3 hours until he passed on. They could have set it aside in a warmer/crib to die on its own, but they both believed that no baby should have to die alone and untouched. Why'd they do it? It was disfigured, it's mental capacity was surely impaired, etc. They did it because every living human deserves respect.

    That is such a beautiful and simple act of kindness. 

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    imagehollowstar:

    Good grief, people, I looked up a quick stat to back my point, I didn't base my opinion on Wikipedia. That said, I'm sure that fact isn't made up. Why do you think they offer the testing? Just as a warning? Wake up.

    I am not talking about my child developing disabilities or problems later. I am talking about what is preventable. So few of the serious issues in our life are actually within our control, but this one is case where we have a choice. It's worth thinking through all sides at the very least. I can certainly understand why so many people feel the way they do, but I feel it's a case where logic should rule over emotion, similar to deciding to start a family in the first place.

    I'm sorry but when you feel those first tiny kicks by your little baby in your own body then talk to me how logic will rule over emotion!  I have literally fallen in love with my LO... Mentally or physically abled/disabled I am in love! 

    If they will suffer physical pain and there is NOTHING that can be done to help the child then I would think about it  but 3 out of the 4 names I was thinking about naming my child were named after 3 children one with autisim, one with downs and the last with cancer.   

    Your inability with being comfortable with people who are different is really what is wrong with this world.  If there was genetic testing for people who are Gay that you can do in Utero, would you?  Would you abort?  After all they face social challenges growing up in too! 

     

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    mieslmiesl member
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it.  Also, don't give me the "but you could be killed in a car crash tomorrow" line.  There's big freakin' difference between the expectation of a normal life span barring unfortunate circumstances and the expectation of a short life span with the remote possibility of a medical miracle. 

    Husband has cystic fibrosis. I'm a carrier. We did TESE, IVF, ICSI, and PGD. After two failed IVFs, we were blessed with our twins.

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    image*MrsGraphine*:

    I would never bring a baby into the world knowing it was going to have a serious disability or be genetically mutated. To me it is socially irresponsible.

    oh look. Another live one. 

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    imageSpenjamins:

    I am so sick of people talking about how babies/children with Down's and other severe disabilities are the "sweetest.....". Yea, and then a lot of them become adults, kicked out of services, unable to find jobs, depressed, etc.    Their parents end up divorced and broke.  Give me an f-ing break. Reality check.

    I would ABSOLUTELY abort if any genetic issues were detected. Why knowingly birth a child who would suffer?

    This is a gigantic generalization in the opposite direction. Also, "suffering" is a very relative term.

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    imagemiesl:
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it.  Also, don't give me the "but you could be killed in a car crash tomorrow" line.  There's big freakin' difference between the expectation of a normal life span barring unfortunate circumstances and the expectation of a short life span with the remote possibility of a medical miracle. 

    OMG. It appears as though this post is breeding the absolute idiots. Help us all!

     

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    imagejlthompson19:
    imageRebeccaMay:
    imagejlthompson19:
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    I'll be an outsider with you.  Sure, some people with Downs can live great lives, but many, many don't.  Many are NOT the high functioning people you see working at your grocery store. 

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

     

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old and the other is 31 and going strong... both girls are/were the sweetest, most intelligent, fully functioning women, with actually the most amazing singing voices you'd ever heard... and considering the lung issues, it's even more amazing that they used those voices to their full potential. 

    Even the Mayo Clinic says "In the past, most people with cystic fibrosis died in their teens. Improved screening and treatments now allow many people with cystic fibrosis to live into their 50s or even longer." https://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cystic-fibrosis/DS00287

     

    Right, but the norm don't live past their 30's.  I don't want that for my child. 

    And as for the pp-no I don't have stats, but don't misquote me and say I said MOST aren't high functioning-I said many.  HUGE difference.

    OP was right to call the pro-lifers in this thread high horse riders, look at all the judgement going on.  DO NOT try to crucify those of us who may or may not make different decisions about our bodies and our children.  You have NO idea unless you are actually in the predicament.

     Seriously, you wouldn't allow your child 30 years??  I can understand if their life expectancy was 5 years or less but three decades is not worth seeing it through?? 

    I have a cousin with CF.  She has taken medication all her life and has had to have respitory and IV therapy many times a year to keep her fairly healthy.  Her parents had to dedicate themselves to making sure she recieved all the treatment that she could possibly need.  She is 30 this year.  Yes, she gets sick more often than most people.  But she was a competitive figure skater in her teens, is a fantastic aunt to her sister's daughter, is a brillent fashion designer and an all around amazing person.  I for one, am glad that I have had these last thirty years to get to know her.  I worry about her, yes, but to say it would have been better for her never to have been born??  No one in our family would even consider the possibility. 

     

    That's great for your cousin, really it is.  But considering this is MY child and MY body, yes, we would have had a serious discussion and probable abortion had the baby at 10 weeks (which is when you can get a CF diagnosis) had been CF +.  Furthermore, I have NEVER and will never say that anyone should not have been born. 

    1. Most people with CF do live past their 30s. The median life expectancy is actually about 38 -which means half live that long, half live even longer.

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    imageShlei:
    imagejlthompson19:
    imageShlei:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

    I'm so sure your friends would tell you that they felt repulsion.  But maybe, just maybe they've told Spenjamins, considering she's a Psychiatrist.

    Please, you don't have many friends do you?

    This makes absolutely no sense.

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    imagemiesl:

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it.  Also, don't give me the "but you could be killed in a car crash tomorrow" line.  There's big freakin' difference between the expectation of a normal life span barring unfortunate circumstances and the expectation of a short life span with the remote possibility of a medical miracle. 

     

    So, basically you're saying you think your DH should've been aborted. Right?

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    image*MrsGraphine*:

    I would never bring a baby into the world knowing it was going to have a serious disability or be genetically mutated. To me it is socially irresponsible.

    sad lol @ "genetically mutated."  wtf does that even mean?  it's a rhetorical question so don't bother trying to answer it.  btw, sometimes you can have serious disabilities without genetic or intellectual issues, are those people a burden on society as well?

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    imageKimmy1836:
    imageAt1stsight:

    DH is a pedi and one poor child was delivered very very early due to a terminal genetic malformation. The parents knew the baby would die very shortly after birth. They were in pain about it and didn't want to see the child because it was so hard. DH and his coworker shared time holding this baby for 3 hours until he passed on. They could have set it aside in a warmer/crib to die on its own, but they both believed that no baby should have to die alone and untouched. Why'd they do it? It was disfigured, it's mental capacity was surely impaired, etc. They did it because every living human deserves respect.

    That is such a beautiful and simple act of kindness. 

    This kills me. I don't care how painful it is, how could any parent not see their living child before it passed on?

    imageimage
    Alex (11/14/06) and Nate (5/25/10)
    "Want what you have, do what you can, be who you are." - Rev. Forrest Church
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    Mentally or physically abled/disabled I am in love! 

     

    This is what makes it such a selfish thing. so YOU are in love...it doesnt mean that child would be in love with being genetically mutated. Besides, some people have other beliefs such as reincarnation, and may believe that baby would come back in a proper body next time. Thus making abortion a way of setting it free. Dont be so closed minded as to only think of what you would love, or how you would feel.

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    imageKimmy1836:
    imageAt1stsight:

    DH is a pedi and one poor child was delivered very very early due to a terminal genetic malformation. The parents knew the baby would die very shortly after birth. They were in pain about it and didn't want to see the child because it was so hard. DH and his coworker shared time holding this baby for 3 hours until he passed on. They could have set it aside in a warmer/crib to die on its own, but they both believed that no baby should have to die alone and untouched. Why'd they do it? It was disfigured, it's mental capacity was surely impaired, etc. They did it because every living human deserves respect.

    That is such a beautiful and simple act of kindness. 

    Thank you - I was so proud of DH that day.

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    imageIn_It_4_Good:
    imagemiesl:

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it.  Also, don't give me the "but you could be killed in a car crash tomorrow" line.  There's big freakin' difference between the expectation of a normal life span barring unfortunate circumstances and the expectation of a short life span with the remote possibility of a medical miracle. 

     

    So, basically you're saying you think your DH should've been aborted. Right?

    and to add to this, there are women on the nest who have CF, lead very full lives, have children and are alive and happy past the age of 27.  

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    image*speedracer*:
    image*MrsGraphine*:

    I would never bring a baby into the world knowing it was going to have a serious disability or be genetically mutated. To me it is socially irresponsible.

    sad lol @ "genetically mutated."  wtf does that even mean?  it's a rhetorical question so don't bother trying to answer it.  btw, sometimes you can have serious disabilities without genetic or intellectual issues, are those people a burden on society as well?

     

    I dont have to "try" to answer it. Down syndrome is a genetic mutation.

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    I didn't read all of the reply's..

    To the OP you can have whatever opinion you want. I am not saying I agree, but it is your opinion.

    Personally, DH and I had the testing done, not because we would have ever terminated. But because god forbid if they would have detected something we wanted to be prepared and to have the best medical team ready for her issue.

    I may have a different feeling than you since we have had a loss. Before that I honestly couldn't say that I wouldn't be in the same boat as you. But now, I really feel like my pregnancy and my baby are a blessing.


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    imagemiesl:
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it. 

    As someone who has CF, I find this to be absolutely ridiculous and and offense. Yes, I have to do 1-2 hours a day of therapy. Yes, I get sick more than the average person. And yes, I wish I didn't have CF. It sucks. But, I still managed to graduate 2nd in my high school class, get two engineering degrees, be a starter for the varsity field hockey team in college, work full time as an engineer, get married, go on vacations, hang out with friends, run 3 miles 4 times a week, and now I am about to have a child. And I have a good friend with CF who has a very similar story.

    I know many people with CF and I have NEVER heard anyone say they haven't lived a full life, and I would bet all the money I have that you would be hard pressed to find someone say that.

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    imagemiesl:
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old

    I'll join the outsider club as well.  DH and I would abort a child with CF.  See the sig, so yes, we know all too well what CF is.  CF is not a healthy life unless you consider a constant daily need for multiple medications and 2-3+ of medical therapy when "well" to be healthy.  The one lady with CF you know died at 27!  That is not a full life, no matter how much living you cram into it. 

    As someone who has CF, I find this to be absolutely ridiculous and and offense. Yes, I have to do 1-2 hours a day of therapy. Yes, I get sick more than the average person. And yes, I wish I didn't have CF. It sucks. But, I still managed to graduate 2nd in my high school class, get two engineering degrees, be a starter for the varsity field hockey team in college, work full time as an engineer, get married, go on vacations, hang out with friends, run 3 miles 4 times a week, and now I am about to have a child. And I have a good friend with CF who has a very similar story.

    I know many people with CF and I have NEVER heard anyone say they haven't lived a full life, and I would bet all the money I have that you would be hard pressed to find someone say that.  Would your DH say that?

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    Sorry about the duplicate post - I accidentally posted too soon and tried to edit and somehow ended up w/ two posts :P
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    image*MrsGraphine*:
    image*speedracer*:
    image*MrsGraphine*:

    I would never bring a baby into the world knowing it was going to have a serious disability or be genetically mutated. To me it is socially irresponsible.

    sad lol @ "genetically mutated."  wtf does that even mean?  it's a rhetorical question so don't bother trying to answer it.  btw, sometimes you can have serious disabilities without genetic or intellectual issues, are those people a burden on society as well?


     

    I dont have to "try" to answer it. Down syndrome is a genetic mutation.

    down syndrome is a chromosomal abnormality, not a genetic mutation.  i'm talking more about the sweeping generalization you made about something you clearly don't know much about. 

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    imagefemmegem:
    imageKimmy1836:
    imageAt1stsight:

    DH is a pedi and one poor child was delivered very very early due to a terminal genetic malformation. The parents knew the baby would die very shortly after birth. They were in pain about it and didn't want to see the child because it was so hard. DH and his coworker shared time holding this baby for 3 hours until he passed on. They could have set it aside in a warmer/crib to die on its own, but they both believed that no baby should have to die alone and untouched. Why'd they do it? It was disfigured, it's mental capacity was surely impaired, etc. They did it because every living human deserves respect.

    That is such a beautiful and simple act of kindness. 

    This kills me. I don't care how painful it is, how could any parent not see their living child before it passed on?

    I don't know but they did change their mind about seeing him after he had passed on. They held him and cried and said goodbyes at that time. I think it all happened somewhat fast and they wanted a live birth rather than abortion but then were scared it'd be so painful to see him and lose him. I have no idea what it'd be like to KNOW my child would die right after he was born, and I had a preemie with breathing issues who was critical at birth (and my strongest instinct was wanting to just get a glimpse of him if nothing else, but I don't judge these parents for feeling they couldn't do it).

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    imagejlthompson19:
    imageShlei:
    imagejlthompson19:
    imageShlei:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

    I'm so sure your friends would tell you that they felt repulsion.  But maybe, just maybe they've told Spenjamins, considering she's a Psychiatrist.

    Please, you don't have many friends do you?

    This makes absolutely no sense.

    It makes perfect sense.  My friends and I are very close and we have been through hard times and good times. We disclose things candidly so yes, my friends would have said so. The point in my remark was that you must not have many friends...I should have clarified by adding "close friends". My fault, anyhow my friends were not repulsed. Scared, worried, scattered, unsure...yes. Repulsed, never!

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    imagehollowstar:

    imagegtown_bride:
    I wouldn't rule out any option. My sister is severely disabled, and I've seen what my parents have gone through with her. She will never be independent. She's like a 2-year old in 30-year-old's body. I will have to take care of her one day, and it's a huge issue for everyone in my family. I wouldn't choose that life for anyone. I think it's easy to say that "special needs" kids are no big deal if you haven't dealt with it it every single day. Maybe they're cute and happy when they're little, but it's a lot harder when they're grown adults. After you're gone, who will take care of them? There are a lot of issues people don't think about.

    This. If your special needs child outlives you, they typically become a burden either on another family member or the system. That isn't fair to anyone.

    My thoughts on abortion have probably shifted since becoming pregnant but I would still rather no child than a severely mentally disabled child. What does a mentally disabled person contribute to the world? Honestly, they might brighten their family's life, but I want my baby to at least have the chance to grow up to be president or an engineer or a writer... not a greeter.

    I also find mentally disabled persons extremely uncomfortable to be around for non family members. A "man" with Down Syndrome insisted on hugging me once while I was shopping. My high school had a large program for disabled kids and there were kids that barked, that drooled, that were overly touchy and had no sense of boundaries. Ego is an important part in human development from an evolutionary standpoint and without that filter it is all but impossible to function in society.

    I didn't mean that I didn't want everyone's opinion, but more pointing out that I was looking for people who share my views and concerns versus trying to start an argument.

    As for asking what I have against "sick" children, I would not just love but FIGHT for my child if they were mentally normal but physically ill.

    I really want to be reasonable and thoughtful. But mostly I'm finding myself struggling to contain from being very, very, very hateful.

    There are no guarantees. What will do you if your child is born and there is something wrong? Ultrasounds don't tell you everything.

    Or your child could be perfectly forming and something happens and he or she is born early, or get sick immediately after birth and suffer brain damage. Will you discard it like a piece of trash?

    Honestly, if that's how you feel, I hope you would at least give it up for adoption. A child deserves a mother who loves it. Not a vile, selfish subhuman who can't look beyond her own perceived perfection and see hope and love in any situation.

    There are few people I would say this about, but you don't deserve to be a mother.

     

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