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Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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Re: Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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    imageAleciaMarie:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageAleciaMarie:

    I find it telling that most of the people that have posted about their experiences with severely disabled close family members would consider aborting. Myself included. Those of you that would willingly bring a severely retarded child into this world may be better than me, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what DS children can do to families, and it's not pretty. Plus, I will not be here forever to take care of the child and I won't place that burden on others.

    In my opinion, it's selfish on the part of the parents to knowingly bring severely disabled children into the world knowing that they will forever struggle and never lead a normal life.

     

    it's only selfish if you don't care adequately for them.  i guess maybe it takes a bigger heart or being financially and emotionally stable.  but i have a cousin who is lower functioning.  it would have only "destroyed" our family if the members of my family were narrow minded.  luckily everyone in my family embraces her, loves her and she is the life of the party.   her brother and sister LOVE her.  there are already arrangements in order if her parents were to pass away and she will continue to be well taken care of.  there's not a single person in my family that wouldn't jump at a chance to take her (and her brother and sister) in.

    i must be really sad to view the world like you.

    Are you going to be the one that has to take responsibility for your cousin when his caregivers die? Becuase boy, does that make the situation a whole lot different when you are in it. My family has taken excellent care of our DS family member, and we love him immensely, but his constant tantrums and inappropriate behavior have been such a struggle for his caregivers and his care has completely taken over their lives.

    Don't tell me how I view the world, your world is nothing like mine.

    yes we are, actually.  we also keep all the kids for a month every summer.  i'm not some dumb naive girl farting puppies and rainbows.  it is difficult and different than raising my child, but i certainly don't feel "burdened" or think she doesn't deserve to experience this life.  

    the simple fact is, our family handles it well, we're all still very happy and very close and view her as a blessing - just like every other child brought into our family.  i'm glad you know your limits.

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      To say that it would be selfish of me to continue the pregnancy if my child had DS,  is the same as the posters who said you would be selfish to abort.  This is a decision that ONLY the parents of a special needs family can decide.  I don't consider myself to be better than you.  Actually, the last paragraph of your post,  sort of portrayed that you believe you would be the better person.   I don't judge you for your stance.... don't judge me for mine.

    If a family is torn apart by a child with DS... then sorry, but there were issues in that family to begin with. The child just brought those issues out into the open.  There are many things that tear families apart. Having a special needs child is INCREDIBLY stressful, yes,  but if you have a strong foundation to start with,  you can get through it and triumph over it.  The divorce rate is ever-growing,  and the vast majority of those families do not have a special needs child.

     

    A normal life doesn't mean a happy life,  and an abnormal life doesn't mean an unhappy life.  It just means different.

     

     

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    imagehollowstar:

    imagegtown_bride:
    I wouldn't rule out any option. My sister is severely disabled, and I've seen what my parents have gone through with her. She will never be independent. She's like a 2-year old in 30-year-old's body. I will have to take care of her one day, and it's a huge issue for everyone in my family. I wouldn't choose that life for anyone. I think it's easy to say that "special needs" kids are no big deal if you haven't dealt with it it every single day. Maybe they're cute and happy when they're little, but it's a lot harder when they're grown adults. After you're gone, who will take care of them? There are a lot of issues people don't think about.

    This. If your special needs child outlives you, they typically become a burden either on another family member or the system. That isn't fair to anyone.

    My thoughts on abortion have probably shifted since becoming pregnant but I would still rather no child than a severely mentally disabled child. What does a mentally disabled person contribute to the world? Honestly, they might brighten their family's life, but I want my baby to at least have the chance to grow up to be president or an engineer or a writer... not a greeter.

    I also find mentally disabled persons extremely uncomfortable to be around for non family members. A "man" with Down Syndrome insisted on hugging me once while I was shopping. My high school had a large program for disabled kids and there were kids that barked, that drooled, that were overly touchy and had no sense of boundaries. Ego is an important part in human development from an evolutionary standpoint and without that filter it is all but impossible to function in society.

    I didn't mean that I didn't want everyone's opinion, but more pointing out that I was looking for people who share my views and concerns versus trying to start an argument.

    As for asking what I have against "sick" children, I would not just love but FIGHT for my child if they were mentally normal but physically ill.

    You make me sick. The fact that you will be bringing a child into this world makes me terribly sad for that child. I'm not even talking on a pro-choice/pro-life level. I'm talking on a level of being a decent human being period. What you have to learn about the world & people is amazing. You don't have one single clue what it takes to be a parent or a parent of compassion or empathy. You are a despicable excuse for a human being.

    You keep those rose colored glasses on honey. I really hope that you never have to overcome the adversity that life can throw at someone because you couldn't handle it.

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    imageallyandpat2010:

     

    I value all life equally.... so my question would be, what makes a disabled person's life have any less value than that of you or I.  God created that life, perfect or inperfect. It is not my place (or yours) to say that he doesn't have the right to live. Not everything in life is how we say it here?? oh ya puppies and rainbows. We take the easy with the hard.

    I don't believe in God. I believe in science. Science gives me the option to avoid some of the hard.

    And it is absolutely my place to decide what happens inside my body. Killing a fetus on its due date doesn't even go on the books as murder. I am not pro late term abortion AT ALL, but the law recognizes it as an extension of my body until it takes its first breath of air.

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    imageKimmy1836:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imagelanie30:
    imagekaiteedidit:
    imagehollowstar:

    This. If your special needs child outlives you, they typically become a burden either on another family member or the system. That isn't fair to anyone.

     There are many, many people who are a burden to their families and the system that aren't mentally or physically handicapped. 

    Indeed, we likely will be nursing our aging parents and ILs at one point and they will be our responsibility. Alzheimers, parkinsons, a variety of aging illnesses could happent o all of us or our parents.

    and could happen to us. Burden on the system? we're all going to be.

    nah, she'll probably just stick her mom in a home.  

    While I agree with most of what you have said in this post, you have to be careful with statements like that. My father was placed in a home 2 years ago due to his Huntington's disease. We were unable to care for him at home any longer (had been for 7+ years) He was unable to keep weight on (a common side effect of Huntington's and not being able to get physical therapy in the house) among other things. It is an incredibly painful decision to have to come to terms with the fact that you can no longer care for a family member and give them the care that they deserve. I felt really guilty and shiity for quite a while. His health has improved and he is thriving in that environment now.

    That being said, I get what you were trying to say though.  

    yeah, that was all knee-jerk snark there.  this thread is so sad to me.  i just can't imagine knowing all the wonderful SN kids i've had the pleasure of knowing and then have someone come on here and say they don't really deserve to be here b/c they are "burdens" and the like.  ::shudder::

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    You disgust me. I wanted a "perfect" child too but guess what I didn't get that. I was handed a special needs baby that we weren't even prepared to handle. All we know now is that she is blind and has a heart defect. She may or may not have mental disabilities or any other problems when she gets older. But you know what? I wouldn't change anything. She is an amazing little girl that makes me smile every day and is always doing something to surprise me. All you can think of is how YOU want your "perfect" family to be like. Are you saying that all the loving families with special needs children aren't "perfect"? I think special needs moms show more love and patience than anyone in the world. For you to just completely say you would terminate no matter what is just appalling. There are soo many different levels of Down Syndrome and any other mental handicap that to ASSume that yours will be the bottom tier is just ridiculous. Grow the f*ck, meet some special needs people and then make a decision.
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    imagepixy_stix:
    imagerakattack:

    There's a difference between choosing to abort a pg with a severely disabled child and being disgusted by people with special needs.  The first if a very personal decision that each couple needs to make, the second is just deplorable.

    All I'm doing in the thread is saying "this"... but THIS.  I'm actually a bit uncomfortable that I posted something that might be construed as agreeing with the OP earlier in the post.

    Um, yeah, this!

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    imageAleciaMarie:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageAleciaMarie:

    I find it telling that most of the people that have posted about their experiences with severely disabled close family members would consider aborting. Myself included. Those of you that would willingly bring a severely retarded child into this world may be better than me, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what DS children can do to families, and it's not pretty. Plus, I will not be here forever to take care of the child and I won't place that burden on others.

    In my opinion, it's selfish on the part of the parents to knowingly bring severely disabled children into the world knowing that they will forever struggle and never lead a normal life.

     

    it's only selfish if you don't care adequately for them.  i guess maybe it takes a bigger heart or being financially and emotionally stable.  but i have a cousin who is lower functioning.  it would have only "destroyed" our family if the members of my family were narrow minded.  luckily everyone in my family embraces her, loves her and she is the life of the party.   her brother and sister LOVE her.  there are already arrangements in order if her parents were to pass away and she will continue to be well taken care of.  there's not a single person in my family that wouldn't jump at a chance to take her (and her brother and sister) in.

    i must be really sad to view the world like you.

    Are you going to be the one that has to take responsibility for your cousin when his caregivers die? Becuase boy, does that make the situation a whole lot different when you are in it. My family has taken excellent care of our DS family member, and we love him immensely, but his constant tantrums and inappropriate behavior have been such a struggle for his caregivers and his care has completely taken over their lives.

    Don't tell me how I view the world, your world is nothing like mine.

    I can't really say what my husband and I would do in this situation. Hopefully, we are never faced with such as decision, but I do understand this reasoning.

    My father's best-friend has a DS brother. He is not high-functioning, and he cannot live on his own. The mom recently passed away, so the father is left to care for him, and it is a daily struggle. The father isn't in the best health either, so they have had to discuss alternative living arrangements for when the time comes. I have watched it tear the family apart. It is so hard for them. Every other sibling has their own family with teenage children, etc. They WILL be responsible for his care after the father passes. That is a BIG responsibility.

    I think it is definitely a decision that only you can make.

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageallyandpat2010:

     

    I value all life equally.... so my question would be, what makes a disabled person's life have any less value than that of you or I.  God created that life, perfect or inperfect. It is not my place (or yours) to say that he doesn't have the right to live. Not everything in life is how we say it here?? oh ya puppies and rainbows. We take the easy with the hard.

    I don't believe in God. I believe in science. Science gives me the option to avoid some of the hard.

    And it is absolutely my place to decide what happens inside my body. Killing a fetus on its due date doesn't even go on the books as murder. I am not pro late term abortion AT ALL, but the law recognizes it as an extension of my body until it takes its first breath of air.

    You are so cool and edgy.  I wish I could be as enlightened as you.

    The day I left was just my beginning.
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    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageKimmy1836:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imagelanie30:
    imagekaiteedidit:
    imagehollowstar:

    This. If your special needs child outlives you, they typically become a burden either on another family member or the system. That isn't fair to anyone.

     There are many, many people who are a burden to their families and the system that aren't mentally or physically handicapped. 

    Indeed, we likely will be nursing our aging parents and ILs at one point and they will be our responsibility. Alzheimers, parkinsons, a variety of aging illnesses could happent o all of us or our parents.

    and could happen to us. Burden on the system? we're all going to be.

    nah, she'll probably just stick her mom in a home.  

    While I agree with most of what you have said in this post, you have to be careful with statements like that. My father was placed in a home 2 years ago due to his Huntington's disease. We were unable to care for him at home any longer (had been for 7+ years) He was unable to keep weight on (a common side effect of Huntington's and not being able to get physical therapy in the house) among other things. It is an incredibly painful decision to have to come to terms with the fact that you can no longer care for a family member and give them the care that they deserve. I felt really guilty and shiity for quite a while. His health has improved and he is thriving in that environment now.

    That being said, I get what you were trying to say though.  

    yeah, that was all knee-jerk snark there.  this thread is so sad to me.  i just can't imagine knowing all the wonderful SN kids i've had the pleasure of knowing and then have someone come on here and say they don't really deserve to be here b/c they are "burdens" and the like.  ::shudder::

    Totally agree. No child is without burdens and problems. What the OP doesn't seem to get is that MOST of those are not preventable (which seems to be the important deciding factor for her). You just don't get the courtesy of a heads up while they are still in the womb.

    By the way, your daughter is one of the cutest kids I have ever seen. 

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    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageAleciaMarie:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageAleciaMarie:

    I find it telling that most of the people that have posted about their experiences with severely disabled close family members would consider aborting. Myself included. Those of you that would willingly bring a severely retarded child into this world may be better than me, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what DS children can do to families, and it's not pretty. Plus, I will not be here forever to take care of the child and I won't place that burden on others.

    In my opinion, it's selfish on the part of the parents to knowingly bring severely disabled children into the world knowing that they will forever struggle and never lead a normal life.

     

    it's only selfish if you don't care adequately for them.  i guess maybe it takes a bigger heart or being financially and emotionally stable.  but i have a cousin who is lower functioning.  it would have only "destroyed" our family if the members of my family were narrow minded.  luckily everyone in my family embraces her, loves her and she is the life of the party.   her brother and sister LOVE her.  there are already arrangements in order if her parents were to pass away and she will continue to be well taken care of.  there's not a single person in my family that wouldn't jump at a chance to take her (and her brother and sister) in.

    i must be really sad to view the world like you.

    Are you going to be the one that has to take responsibility for your cousin when his caregivers die? Becuase boy, does that make the situation a whole lot different when you are in it. My family has taken excellent care of our DS family member, and we love him immensely, but his constant tantrums and inappropriate behavior have been such a struggle for his caregivers and his care has completely taken over their lives.

    Don't tell me how I view the world, your world is nothing like mine.

    yes we are, actually.  we also keep all the kids for a month every summer.  i'm not some dumb naive girl farting puppies and rainbows.  it is difficult and different than raising my child, but i certainly don't feel "burdened" or think she doesn't deserve to experience this life.  

    the simple fact is, our family handles it well, we're all still very happy and very close and view her as a blessing - just like every other child brought into our family.  i'm glad you know your limits.

    I do know my limits, and considering that I may end up being responsible for the care and expenses of one DS child, it seriously affects my decisions on whether I would consider bringing another DS child into the world. Would it be fair to that new child when I would likely be seriously struggling, both financially and emotionally?

     I don't want to fight, this is too emotional a subject for me. Like I said in my original post, you may be a better person than me, and I'm OK with that.

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    My mother is not well mentally nor physically. I guess I should just hand her over to the state or drive her out to the middle of nowhere to die. How dare she be a burden to me or society.

    OMG what you have to learn about life hollow. Your name is fitting BTW. Because I've never seen such a hollow human being. Devoid of any & all compassion for anyone but yourself & what you deem acceptable to society.

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    I find it nearly incomprehensible that you seem to have no earthly idea how ridiculous you sound.

     

    image
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    What if I give a politically correct answer and say that I wouldn't want a DS child who might suffer through physical and social problems and so for their sake I would terminate if it was detected early enough?

    Is that evil?

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people? The fact that I support any kind of abortion at all? That I am willing to admit my hopes for a non-special needs child?

    Seriously, I'm not sure which part of this is offensive. It isn't like I'll teach my kids to treat special needs people like lepers. But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

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    Also you should lurk on the Special Needs board. They can assure you that their children do contribute to a society and aren't all burdens that should have never been born.
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    imagehollowstar:

    If anyone can find a statistic saying abortion rates are less than 90%, please post it. That stat suggests that even people who are normally pro-life will typically choose to abort a DS baby.

    Okay - now I'm just losing my patience with you. Prior to this post, I thought you were just young, naive, and maybe not so bright and I tried to respond as such. Now you're just coming across as a real ignorant *** who happens to be not so bright.  

    Why do you care what the statistic is (and by the way - yes it is very high in the UK)? Why does that even come up over and over again in your mind?

    And what was your intention on posting this question in the first place? Were you truly interested in what others have to say or just up for playing the contrarian game?

    The stupid...it really burns.

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    But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    This, along with your "I'm just honest!" stupidity, is why you'll be a sh!tty parent.

     

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    I've tried to write something about 14 times and I can't even get my point across because I'm so disgusted with the OP's attitude towards disabled people. OP, you started with a controversial yet honest topic, and you took it to a place of absolutely disgusting ignorance. To abort a child who faces a lifetime of pain, suffering, and difficulty is one thing. To abort a child because s/he might potentially make others uncomfortable is just hateful.

    I believe that with your young age and your low risk factors, your baby will not have Downs. And I hope, hope, hope that when that baby is put in your arms, you will be so overwhelmed with love that you will not ever let anyone hurt or talk badly about your child. And I hope that you will be an advocate for that child no matter what happens. I wish you the best of luck and I ask that you please refrain from spouting whatever comes to your mind about disabled people in the future. I am really sorry to all the moms of children with special needs who read your nasty diatribes today.

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    Personally, I don't understand why anyone would ask this question.  Like said before, it's a private, personal decision a couple may be faced with.  My heart would be crushed faced with a decision like that.  I believe that I would only make that choice if my child would suffer and die shortly after birth - BUT I make no judgements on anyone that would try to keep that baby alive. To be quite honest, I think it's funny someone would think they would know what they would do.  Testing positive or negative does NOT guarantee a healthy child or that the child will not have other major disabilities.  What would happen if there was an foreseen disability that develops later in life?

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    imagejlthompson19:
    imageA*manda*:
    imagejlthompson19:

    I'll be an outsider with you.  Sure, some people with Downs can live great lives, but many, many don't.  Many are NOT the high functioning people you see working at your grocery store. 

    Before becoming pregnant I tested + for the CF gene.  Had my DH also tested postitive we would have first talked about adoption options, but had we proceeded to conceive on our own, and our baby was + for CF, we probably would have aborted. 

     

    Wow, really? This day and age, there is so much amazing technology out there that many CF people *can* live full and healthy lives. Yes, there is that chance that your child may not make it to their teens, but... I couldn't imagine passing that up. I know two sisters with CF, and one just passed away.. at the age of 27 years old and the other is 31 and going strong... both girls are/were the sweetest, most intelligent, fully functioning women, with actually the most amazing singing voices you'd ever heard... and considering the lung issues, it's even more amazing that they used those voices to their full potential. 

    Even the Mayo Clinic says "In the past, most people with cystic fibrosis died in their teens. Improved screening and treatments now allow many people with cystic fibrosis to live into their 50s or even longer." https://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cystic-fibrosis/DS00287

     

    Right, but the norm don't live past their 30's.  I don't want that for my child. 

    And as for the pp-no I don't have stats, but don't misquote me and say I said MOST aren't high functioning-I said many.  HUGE difference.

    OP was right to call the pro-lifers in this thread high horse riders, look at all the judgement going on.  DO NOT try to crucify those of us who may or may not make different decisions about our bodies and our children.  You have NO idea unless you are actually in the predicament.

     Seriously, you wouldn't allow your child 30 years??  I can understand if their life expectancy was 5 years or less but three decades is not worth seeing it through?? 

    I have a cousin with CF.  She has taken medication all her life and has had to have respitory and IV therapy many times a year to keep her fairly healthy.  Her parents had to dedicate themselves to making sure she recieved all the treatment that she could possibly need.  She is 30 this year.  Yes, she gets sick more often than most people.  But she was a competitive figure skater in her teens, is a fantastic aunt to her sister's daughter, is a brillent fashion designer and an all around amazing person.  I for one, am glad that I have had these last thirty years to get to know her.  I worry about her, yes, but to say it would have been better for her never to have been born??  No one in our family would even consider the possibility. 

     

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    What makes me mad is that you clump all people with Down Syndrome into a nice tidy box and that they are all the same.  Well they aren't.  Like is said before I work with special needs students and I have yet to be hugged inappropriately.  Am I saying they have perfect social skills...no but I do know a lot of other adults who do not have mental retardation who have horrible social skills. 

     Also to your previous comments about people with Autism having a better out look try telling that to some parents I work with.  I have a few students who are non verbal and are violent because they can't express themselves.  I don't know about you but I know people with Down Syndrome who function way better than that.



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    imagehollowstar:

    What if I give a politically correct answer and say that I wouldn't want a DS child who might suffer through physical and social problems and so for their sake I would terminate if it was detected early enough?

    Is that evil?

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people? The fact that I support any kind of abortion at all? That I am willing to admit my hopes for a non-special needs child?

    Seriously, I'm not sure which part of this is offensive. It isn't like I'll teach my kids to treat special needs people like lepers. But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    even an untrained sea monkey could understand what part of your post and position is offensive

    image
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    I would like to add cause this popped in my head with a laugh... Didn't Tim Teabow's mother get told to abort him??? Docs are not always right.

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    imagevioletvirgo:
    imageKimmy1836:
    imagevioletvirgo:
    imagelanie30:
    imagekaiteedidit:
    imagehollowstar:

    This. If your special needs child outlives you, they typically become a burden either on another family member or the system. That isn't fair to anyone.

     There are many, many people who are a burden to their families and the system that aren't mentally or physically handicapped. 

    Indeed, we likely will be nursing our aging parents and ILs at one point and they will be our responsibility. Alzheimers, parkinsons, a variety of aging illnesses could happent o all of us or our parents.

    and could happen to us. Burden on the system? we're all going to be.

    nah, she'll probably just stick her mom in a home.  

    While I agree with most of what you have said in this post, you have to be careful with statements like that. My father was placed in a home 2 years ago due to his Huntington's disease. We were unable to care for him at home any longer (had been for 7+ years) He was unable to keep weight on (a common side effect of Huntington's and not being able to get physical therapy in the house) among other things. It is an incredibly painful decision to have to come to terms with the fact that you can no longer care for a family member and give them the care that they deserve. I felt really guilty and shiity for quite a while. His health has improved and he is thriving in that environment now.

    That being said, I get what you were trying to say though.  

    yeah, that was all knee-jerk snark there.  this thread is so sad to me.  i just can't imagine knowing all the wonderful SN kids i've had the pleasure of knowing and then have someone come on here and say they don't really deserve to be here b/c they are "burdens" and the like.  ::shudder::

    I do NOT agree with OP and I would never abort my child but what I can say is that having a brother who is mentally challenged he is a joy and yes a burden. I don't think he shouldn't live because of this burden but I also do think that calling a situation a burden as necessarily an evil thing. 

    The OB is an imbecile of that I have no doubt but please don't assume that everyone who says their mentally challenged family member is a burden also is saying that they shouldn't live. Not everyone is high functioning and having to care for an adult as if they are in infant or young child is very disruptive to everyday life and a challenge that never ends. I love my brother to no end but one day he is going to be my responsibility and it is going to be a burden to many people in my family. You can still have empathy and love but feel a little resentful.

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    imagehollowstar:

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people?

    But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    These parts make you an utterasshole.  ywia.

    The day I left was just my beginning.
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    imagerakattack:
    imageAleciaMarie:

    I find it telling that most of the people that have posted about their experiences with severely disabled close family members would consider aborting. Myself included. Those of you that would willingly bring a severely retarded child into this world may be better than me, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what DS children can do to families, and it's not pretty. Plus, I will not be here forever to take care of the child and I won't place that burden on others.

    In my opinion, it's selfish on the part of the parents to knowingly bring severely disabled children into the world knowing that they will forever struggle and never lead a normal life.

     

    There's a difference between choosing to abort a pg with a severely disabled child and being disgusted by people with special needs.  The first if a very personal decision that each couple needs to make, the second is just deplorable.

    This 100%.

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageallyandpat2010:

     

    I value all life equally.... so my question would be, what makes a disabled person's life have any less value than that of you or I.  God created that life, perfect or inperfect. It is not my place (or yours) to say that he doesn't have the right to live. Not everything in life is how we say it here?? oh ya puppies and rainbows. We take the easy with the hard.

    I don't believe in God. I believe in science. Science gives me the option to avoid some of the hard.

    And it is absolutely my place to decide what happens inside my body. Killing a fetus on its due date doesn't even go on the books as murder. I am not pro late term abortion AT ALL, but the law recognizes it as an extension of my body until it takes its first breath of air.

    I don't believe in God, I believe in science.
    Oh this explains everything. *rolls eyes*
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    I would just like to state that while I would consider terminating a DS pregnancy, I in no way agree with Hollowstars sentiments toward the disabled.

    HS- You need to realize how offensive your attitude toward the disabled has been in this post. You may just want to log off now.

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    imagehollowstar:

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people? The fact that I support any kind of abortion at all? That I am willing to admit my hopes for a non-special needs child?

    Seriously, I'm not sure which part of this is offensive. It isn't like I'll teach my kids to treat special needs people like lepers. But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    What makes you a bad person is the fact that you openly admit that you are disgusted by people who did not have a choice about their shortcomings.  Because, you know, I'm sure if they had only known that one day they were going to offend you, they would've chosen to be differently.

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    imagerakattack:
    imagehollowstar:

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people?

    But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    These parts make you an utterasshole.  ywia.

    A while ago someone asked why anyone would apologize for their friendly diasbled child being talkative and friendly in a store - this is why.  THIS is what sucks - your kids can learn to be tolerate - NOT because it's a social taboo but because it is good for our society to be open to different kinds of people.  I work at a high school and it is reall disgusting to me to see people treat our disabled students poorly - IT comes from the parents to stop this kind of crap behaviour.

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    Sorry for the duplicate - erased the extra

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    I honestly was not trying to be offensive. I was wondering if other people were concerned about testing as a possible end of their pregnancy should the results be bad. You know, for support, and a bit out of curiosity perhaps. I definitely wasn't trying to incite anything like this. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

    Kind of getting off topic but Why would letting my kids express their honest opinions make me a bad parent? Am I supposed to stifle the things that naturally pop into their heads and mold them into something else?

    Yes, I'm young. And I don't know a ton of people with special needs, and none well. But I have been around quite a few both in school and through other organizations, enough to know that severe mental disability is not something I could deal with. If you could and you are better than me, that's fine, but at least I can admit my shortcomings and am prepared to act accordingly.

    How can people get so offended with the fact that something makes me uncomfortable?

    And as for the statistic, I suppose I'm throwing that around so much to point out that while I may be the minority on this board, in this theoretical conversation, I am very much the norm when it comes to people who actually do have to make this difficult decision.

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    imagehollowstar:

    What if I give a politically correct answer and say that I wouldn't want a DS child who might suffer through physical and social problems and so for their sake I would terminate if it was detected early enough?

    Is that evil?

    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people? The fact that I support any kind of abortion at all? That I am willing to admit my hopes for a non-special needs child?

    Seriously, I'm not sure which part of this is offensive. It isn't like I'll teach my kids to treat special needs people like lepers. But I will let my kids express their emotions without judgment whether they are socially taboo or not.

    honey we all hope are children a exactly what we envision.  the fact is that rarely happens.  whether it's SN mentally or physically or your kid just ends up some kleptomaniac douchebag (these things happen).   if you could run a test to determine if they will suffer depression would you abort?  or what about if they get into an accident and suffer brain damage. 

    and the last statement?  um...so you would be a-ok if your kid held the same sentiments as a white supremacist or thought it was ok to treat women like dirt?  riiiight.

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    imageKelsoXOXO:
    imagehollowstar:
    imageallyandpat2010:

     

    I value all life equally.... so my question would be, what makes a disabled person's life have any less value than that of you or I.  God created that life, perfect or inperfect. It is not my place (or yours) to say that he doesn't have the right to live. Not everything in life is how we say it here?? oh ya puppies and rainbows. We take the easy with the hard.

    I don't believe in God. I believe in science. Science gives me the option to avoid some of the hard.

    And it is absolutely my place to decide what happens inside my body. Killing a fetus on its due date doesn't even go on the books as murder. I am not pro late term abortion AT ALL, but the law recognizes it as an extension of my body until it takes its first breath of air.

    I don't believe in God, I believe in science.
    Oh this explains everything. *rolls eyes*

    i don't believe in god and i do believe in science but that doesn't excuse you, OP, from being hateful. and you're right no one is judging you for what happens in your body.  we're (i'm) judging you for being a heartless b!tch about it.  the attitude blows and is terribly disheartening.  you're pathetic.

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    imagehollowstar:
    Which part makes me a bad person? The fact that I'm open about my discomfort around some mentally challenged people?
    Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

    How can you say you won't teach your children to treat people who are not "normal" by the standards of society as lepers if you yourself are uncomfortable around them? In one post alone you stated several instances you have come against where you were uncomfortable around people with mental disabilities. Your children will see that, they will see how you treat people who are different and they will learn from you. So, you may not teach them to treat people with disabilities as lepers by lip service, but your actions will speak louder than the words you preach.

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    imageAleciaMarie:

    HS- You need to realize how offensive your attitude toward the disabled has been in this post. You may just want to log off now.

    What is my attitude? They often make me uncomfortable when they approach me uninvited and I feel like they would have a lesser quality of life than a normal child and also cause strain on the rest of my family.

    I apologize for my "greeter" comment. Someone else mentioned being a greeter before I did and I copped it in my own response. Obviously all disabled people aren't only greeters, but my point was only that their career choices are much more limited than the average child.

    I feel like I could be a lot clearer if I wasn't constantly under attack. I'm not going after anyone else's character in my responses. Everything I'm saying is admittedly hypothetical.

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    So, if your kid thinks you're anasshole, you have no problem with them freely expressing their opinion?  Hey mom, you're anasshole!

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    imagehollowstar:

    If I have a baby with Down Syndrome and it gets passed the screening and pops out of my vag and into my arms... I will love them. May I give them up for adoption? Good chance, because I know myself and that someone else would love to care for them. Are people "lining up" to adopt special needs kids, maybe not, but there are people who don't mind or who even specifically wish to adopt a special needs child. (BTW, fairly certain her "lining up" statement was sarcasm.)

    If my baby has another mental disability farther down the line, of course I will be their advocate. Of course I will love them.

    Not sure I am understanding this correctly.  If you have the screening done and it comes back positive for Down Syndrome you are willing to terminate BUT if it comes back negative you are willing to go on with the pregnancy unless when the doctor hands you this precious new life and says I'm sorry your LO has Down's your gonna hand the baby back and say I don't want it.  Even sicker is you go on to say that later on if something develops you will be their advocate and love them.  WTF is the difference if you are handed a baby with a disability from the get go or if something happens later on? 


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    How can people get so offended with the fact that something makes me uncomfortable?

     you know what makes me uncomfortable?  stupid people.  bigots.  ugly people.  so basically, you.

     

     


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    imagehollowstar:

    I honestly was not trying to be offensive. I was wondering if other people were concerned about testing as a possible end of their pregnancy should the results be bad. You know, for support, and a bit out of curiosity perhaps. I definitely wasn't trying to incite anything like this. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

    Kind of getting off topic but Why would letting my kids express their honest opinions make me a bad parent? Am I supposed to stifle the things that naturally pop into their heads and mold them into something else?

    Yes, I'm young. And I don't know a ton of people with special needs, and none well. But I have been around quite a few both in school and through other organizations, enough to know that severe mental disability is not something I could deal with. If you could and you are better than me, that's fine, but at least I can admit my shortcomings and am prepared to act accordingly.

    How can people get so offended with the fact that something makes me uncomfortable?

    And as for the statistic, I suppose I'm throwing that around so much to point out that while I may be the minority on this board, in this theoretical conversation, I am very much the norm when it comes to people who actually do have to make this difficult decision.

    Since your OP mention DS as your main fear how are going to find out if it severe or not?   

     



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