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Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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Re: Sensitive Subject - Not keeping baby with (certain) disabilities?

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    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    Alternative Housewife - Mama style on a budget

    Mama to Sebastian, born 9/2010 BabyFetus Ticker

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    imagehollowstar:

     

    How can people get so offended with the fact that something makes me uncomfortable?

     

    I could care less that something makes you uncomfortable.  It's that fact that you would be disgusted to hold your own DS baby.  It's the fact that you would not love or fight for a DS baby.  Or any child with a mental handicap.  I'm exceptionally sad that you can not see that it's not about terminating a pregnancy.  It's about the refusal to love and care for your own child, NO MATTER WHAT.

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    imagehollowstar:

    imageAuddie2122:
    What if your "normal" child wanted to express themselves by hugging a complete stranger in the mall? Just curious what you would do in this situation...

    I would teach them that it is socially unacceptable to do so and that it could make them uncomfortable. A normal child should be able to comprehend this fairly easily.

    The person who hugged me in a store was an adult.

    A "man." You forgot your quotes this time.

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    MegDCMegDC member
    imagehollowstar:

    imageAuddie2122:
    What if your "normal" child wanted to express themselves by hugging a complete stranger in the mall? Just curious what you would do in this situation...

    I would teach them that it is socially unacceptable to do so and that it could make them uncomfortable. A normal child should be able to comprehend this fairly easily.

    The person who hugged me in a store was an adult.

    Just dropping in to suggest serious therapy.  If a hug in the mall so disturbs you as to make you totally bigoted toward the disabled then you need to see someone with a PhD and the ability to prescribe meds. 

    Lilypie Third Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
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    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    I don't believe you.  You said you would love and fight for a child with physical diabilities, but not one with mental disabilities.  Sorry sweetheart, but that statement above is a complete contridiction to something you said hours ago.  Which is it?  I'm certain we already know the answer.

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    Consider yourself beyond flamed. You're burned beyond recognition on this one. Angry

    Meet Hayley, she's 7. She had a hole in her heart, has downs and had to wear a bag to be able to go to the bathroom up to the age of 6. She's smart, beauitufl and not just a "joy" or "greeter" she has the prospect of going to college.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

     Your child, whether or not it has downs or any other problems, is a MIRACLE

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    imageEmmybean:

    I would like a list of OP's accomplishments, specifically those that have enriched the lives of others, so I can decide whether I think she should have been aborted or not.

    List or paragraph form, I'm not picky.

    :::::impatiently waits with Emmy for a response:::::

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    imageAppleMomma:

    Consider yourself beyond flamed. You're burned beyond recognition on this one. Angry

    Meet Hayley, she's 7. She had a hole in her heart, has downs and had to wear a bag to be able to go to the bathroom up to the age of 6. She's smart, beauitufl and not just a "joy" or "greeter" she has the prospect of going to college.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

     Your child, whether or not it has downs or any other problems, is a MIRACLE

    She is beautiful!

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    imageChickpea2010:

    A "man." You forgot your quotes this time.

    OK I do feel like an asshat for that one because I meant "man" as in he acted like a child but was an adult. I wasn't intending to be derogatory towards anyone. This person was without an aide or caregiver and completely inappropriate.

    Saying I might be a bit disgusted at delivering a DS baby is my business. I guess I was stupid to think it was safe to post here.

    As for my child rearing, I do not mean "freethinking" a some nonconformist crap where my kid can be a Nazi and I smile and nod. I mean that I want them to ask questions even if they are uncomfortable ones. Obviously I will teach them that people are equal and that no race is better than another. They will learn what causes disabilities and to be polite. I myself am not rude to disabled people. I suppose this is what makes me most uncomfortable - Not the hug, but that the man didn't understand why I would say no to one, so I knew to say no would hurt his feelings. I do not want to follow my adult child around making sure they do the socially appropriate thing.

    I know I'm never going to win and might as well give up. I'd appreciate it if you don't judge me just by this debate, as everything I type seems to be misconstrued. 

    Alternative Housewife - Mama style on a budget

    Mama to Sebastian, born 9/2010 BabyFetus Ticker

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    imageChickpea2010:

    I've tried to write something about 14 times and I can't even get my point across because I'm so disgusted with the OP's attitude towards disabled people. OP, you started with a controversial yet honest topic, and you took it to a place of absolutely disgusting ignorance. To abort a child who faces a lifetime of pain, suffering, and difficulty is one thing. To abort a child because s/he might potentially make others uncomfortable is just hateful.

    I believe that with your young age and your low risk factors, your baby will not have Downs. And I hope, hope, hope that when that baby is put in your arms, you will be so overwhelmed with love that you will not ever let anyone hurt or talk badly about your child. And I hope that you will be an advocate for that child no matter what happens. I wish you the best of luck and I ask that you please refrain from spouting whatever comes to your mind about disabled people in the future. I am really sorry to all the moms of children with special needs who read your nasty diatribes today.

    there is an amazing woman on these boards who is just 21 years old. She has a very healthy, beautiful little girl. But she is also pregnant with a precious little boy, Eli, who has been diagnosed with Trisomy 13. her blog is https://www.embracingelijah.com/

    I encourage you to read her blog. She is wise beyond her years, and one of the strongest, most amazing women I "know" (in quotes b/c I only know her online). She loves that little boy with every ounce of her being. She is praying that he even survives delivery just so that she can spend a few hours or maybe even days with him. he is a gift, and she recognizes him as much. To say that she should killthat baby because he will not live a healthy life is deplorable. He is a human, and deserves to be loved, for however long he is able to live.

    So, just because you are young and have no risk factors does not guarantee a perfect child.

     

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    imageAppleMomma:

    Consider yourself beyond flamed. You're burned beyond recognition on this one. Angry

    Meet Hayley, she's 7. She had a hole in her heart, has downs and had to wear a bag to be able to go to the bathroom up to the age of 6. She's smart, beauitufl and not just a "joy" or "greeter" she has the prospect of going to college.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

     Your child, whether or not it has downs or any other problems, is a MIRACLE

    YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes

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    imageKateAggie:
    imageEmmybean:

    I would like a list of OP's accomplishments, specifically those that have enriched the lives of others, so I can decide whether I think she should have been aborted or not.

    List or paragraph form, I'm not picky.

    :::::impatiently waits with Emmy for a response:::::

    Yep, I'd like to see this too. This is your thinking correct?? 

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    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

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    imageStellasmom:
    I am absolutely and completely horrified by your attitude regarding the mentally disabled. Please, please don't pass that attitude onto the innocent mind of your child. The world doesn't need any more bigots.

    This. You are a moron.

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    imageChickpea2010:
    imageAppleMomma:

    Consider yourself beyond flamed. You're burned beyond recognition on this one. Angry

    Meet Hayley, she's 7. She had a hole in her heart, has downs and had to wear a bag to be able to go to the bathroom up to the age of 6. She's smart, beauitufl and not just a "joy" or "greeter" she has the prospect of going to college.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

     Your child, whether or not it has downs or any other problems, is a MIRACLE

    She is beautiful!

    This is a friend of mine's daughter. He & his wife have 4 other children, and she's absolutely amazing. She even plays soft ball and is currently leading her group to the county championships. 

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    imageambrandau2:

    I say this with zero flames: As someone who had to make the "choice" to terminate a pregnancy because my baby had no chance for survival, and would have been born into a brief life of extreme pain (had we ever made it that far), you can't know what you would do until you are in the situation. I certainly never thought there would be any circumstances under which I would end a pregnancy.

    But seeing my angel on the sonogram screen swollen and struggling, with the tech, the doc, my doc and a high risk OBGYN all telling me how horrible this child's brief life would be, there really was no more "choice" to be made in our eyes. We loved our baby too much to ask him to suffer any longer.

    I really am just putting this out there to say, you don't and can't know what you would do until the situation is staring you in the face. I hope none of you ever have to be in that position. It is a nightmare beyond anything.

    Exactly. God bless you. It's easy to say what you would do on a message board, and even to do so on a high horse/judgemental way. I just pray that none of us will ever have to go through the reality of the situation. It is never how we think it will be. Well said.

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    imagehollowstar:

    I know I'm never going to win and might as well give up. I'd appreciate it if you don't judge me just by this debate, as everything I type seems to be misconstrued. 

    Wait, you don't want us to judge you, but you can judge mentally disabled people?  That's fair and soooo mature.

    Consider yourself judged.  This debate has shown your true character and it's one that most of us refuse to accept.

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageChickpea2010:

    A "man." You forgot your quotes this time.

    OK I do feel like an asshat for that one because I meant "man" as in he acted like a child but was an adult. I wasn't intending to be derogatory towards anyone. This person was without an aide or caregiver and completely inappropriate.

    Saying I might be a bit disgusted at delivering a DS baby is my business. I guess I was stupid to think it was safe to post here.

    As for my child rearing, I do not mean "freethinking" a some nonconformist crap where my kid can be a Nazi and I smile and nod. I mean that I want them to ask questions even if they are uncomfortable ones. Obviously I will teach them that people are equal and that no race is better than another. They will learn what causes disabilities and to be polite. I myself am not rude to disabled people. I suppose this is what makes me most uncomfortable - Not the hug, but that the man didn't understand why I would say no to one, so I knew to say no would hurt his feelings. I do not want to follow my adult child around making sure they do the socially appropriate thing.

    I know I'm never going to win and might as well give up. I'd appreciate it if you don't judge me just by this debate, as everything I type seems to be misconstrued. 

    just.stop

    image
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    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    image
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    Seriously, how dare you! This mentality will come back and haunt you!
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    Is that what I said?

    I don't need my children to have a huge list of accomplishments. I just want them to be well adjusted and independent if possible. Medical complications that often accompany mental disability are also expensive and exhausting for the child and the family.

    I am by no means saying that disabled children shouldn't be born, just that I would terminate early if given the option.

    As someone pointed out, things change once you hold the baby, breastfeed and bond. I'm not stupid and I'm aware I will love my child simply because it is my child, disabilities or not. In the awful scenario that I had to abort, I would mourn that child, but I also know it would be for the best.

    Would I be less likely to terminate if the disability was physical and not mental? Yes, absolutely.

    Alternative Housewife - Mama style on a budget

    Mama to Sebastian, born 9/2010 BabyFetus Ticker

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    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    Really?  I mean really?  You think every mother of a special needs child has feelings of repulsion?  I'm at a loss. 

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    imagehollowstar:

    Is that what I said?

    I don't need my children to have a huge list of accomplishments. I just want them to be well adjusted and independent if possible. Medical complications that often accompany mental disability are also expensive and exhausting for the child and the family.

    I am by no means saying that disabled children shouldn't be born, just that I would terminate early if given the option.

    As someone pointed out, things change once you hold the baby, breastfeed and bond. I'm not stupid and I'm aware I will love my child simply because it is my child, disabilities or not. In the awful scenario that I had to abort, I would mourn that child, but I also know it would be for the best.

    Would I be less likely to terminate if the disability was physical and not mental? Yes, absolutely.

    AGAIN, this is not what you said many hours ago.  Were you lying then or are you lying now?

    Also, you do realize that there are people with physical handicaps that lead FAR less fulfilling and productive lives than some people with mental disabilities.  So what exactly is the difference?

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    I'm just throwing in my two cents because I am peeved beyond words at this.  I have worked with children and adults who have mental and physical disabilities my whole career.  I am an assistant case manager for a group of 70 adults that have varying disabilities.  I watch all my clients live full and productive lives everyday.  They all work, they all play, they are all the most amazing group of people I have ever met.  Their strength and determination to do new things never ceases to amaze me.

    I can't imagine not having the joy of getting to spend my days with all of them.  They truly make me smile and to think that if there were more people like you in this world they wouldn't be here makes me sick to my stomach.  They may not be my biological children, but I love each and every one of them like they are. 

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    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

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    imagehollowstar:

    It explains a lot how so many of you don't want your child to think freely. If my child has a problem with some of my beliefs I won't necessarily change the rules for them, but they will always have the option of letting me know how they feel whether or not I agree. I hope they do not become a racist, etc., but telling them not to say it out loud isn't going to stop them from thinking it. I'd rather have an honest discussion with my child than simply punish them for disagreeing with me or society.

    I don't choose to feel uncomfortable. And for the record, I would be equally as uncomfortable if a non mentally challenged stranger hugged me. I will not instruct my children to feel any which way about the mentally disabled other than to explain what it means (physically and socially). If my child is uncomfortable and that is their gut reaction, I will certainly not shame them for something that is out of their control.

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    You DO choose to be uncomfortable. You choose your feelings. They are yours. No one else forces you to have these feelings. They are your responsibility. You clearly don't get that. You are the only one who can say "Hey, that makes me uncomfortable" and then figure out why. You are still stuck at uncomfortable rather than opening yourself up to the world that we all live in. Get out of your bubble and open yourself to the possibilities. Go spend some time with the very people that you think are a waste of life.

    Or don't. They don't need your assistance to get through their 'oh so horrible' lives. They need people who care enough to put themselves out there, to learn, to love and to accept.

    No one ever said life was supposed to be easy. We all have challenges, some greater than others. It's not a pissingcontest to see who can deal with the most.


    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
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    imagedisbride061103:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    Really?  I mean really?  You think every mother of a special needs child has feelings of repulsion?  I'm at a loss. 

    Absolutely. And I think this should be discussed as part of a normal process that parents of special needs children go through.
    image
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    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

     Im kinda new to the board and thought I would read the entire thread before commenting.  IMO, out of everything that was said, this last part is the worst.  

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    imageSpenjamins:
    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    This.

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    Alternative Housewife - Mama style on a budget

    Mama to Sebastian, born 9/2010 BabyFetus Ticker

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    I haven't read the other 937 responses and don't want to.  I don't think anyone, except for very religious people can say what they would do.  I was close to being in that situation, DS had a one in three chance after some testing we had, lucky for us, he was the 2 out of 3. Even after 4 days of thinking about it, I don't know what I would have done.

    I recently had a friend who had a "surprise" DS baby, it has not been an easy road the last few months.  She has been to hell and back.  She had to quit her part time job because of all the doctors appointments, and his low tone causes some problems that make daycare not a great idea and that is just the tip of the iceberg.  I have a friend who also has a 4 year old with DS, who does very well, but it is far from the ease of raising an "average".  I had them both over on Monday and see them often.  I don't know how they do it.

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    imageSpenjamins:
    imagedisbride061103:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    Really?  I mean really?  You think every mother of a special needs child has feelings of repulsion?  I'm at a loss. 

    Absolutely. And I think this should be discussed as part of a normal process that parents of special needs children go through.

    Until you live the life of a special needs mom don't you dare tell me what I feel. I never felt repulsed by my daughter. That statement is beyond disgusting. Seriously. You need to stop talking. 

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    imagehollowstar:


    Kind of getting off topic but Why would letting my kids express their honest opinions make me a bad parent? Am I supposed to stifle the things that naturally pop into their heads and mold them into something else?

    But I have been around quite a few both in school and through other organizations, enough to know that severe mental disability is not something I could deal with. If you could and you are better than me, that's fine, but at least I can admit my shortcomings and am prepared to act accordingly.

    Because *honest* opinions are not always best to be voiced. You may as well say that your children have the right to be racists, bigots, or criminals, because it's their "honest opinion." As a parent, it's your responsibility to educate them! And yes, there ARE times when y ou're supposed to stifle things that come into their head--cuss words, bad attitudes, etc. Are you going to let your five year old walking around saying the F*** word because s/he heard it and it popped into her head?

    As far as the second statement, if you're not prepared to deal with the possibility of your child having a severe mental disability, maybe you shouldn't have opened your legs in the first place. No matter how much "prevention" you can do, you should know that Science also acknowledges that things may come up with your child down the road

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    imageShlei:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    That's messed up. Of course a mixture of feelings will come about but repulsion? Wow! I know several special needs mothers that never felt repulsion. Suffer? Who are you to say they suffer. We all have trials and tribulations in this life...they just vary from person to person. 

     

    I'm so sure your friends would tell you that they felt repulsion.  But maybe, just maybe they've told Spenjamins, considering she's a Psychiatrist.

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    The fact that you are so self-congratulatory about how "honest" you're being kind of compounds your immaturity and general lack of empathy.  I really hope you grow up, and quickly.

     

    image
    Updated September 2012. Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
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    imagehollowstar:
    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty. 

    You feel like you're "more of an adult" for spewing bigotry on a public message board?

    You have a lot of growing up to do. 

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    imagehollowstar:

    Attacking my opinions is one thing, but why attack me?

    What do my thoughts on the mentally disabled have to do with my thoughts on my mother?

    People cry when they find out their children have disabilities. There are support groups and parent meet-ups. Yet I am a bad person for saying in advance that I will be bummed if there are problems with my child?

    After all, what is it that people always say when you ask them if they want a boy or a girl. Oh yes:

    "It doesn't matter as long as he or she is healthy."

    I guess I just have different ideas about what is healthy.

    I could be wrong, but aren't DS kids also much more prone to other illnesses and complications?

    I also don't think I ever said that ALL disabled people make me uncomfortable. (Although I don't think "uncomfortable" is really inappropriate so much as just stating an emotion that is out of my control.) Who of you would be absolutely fine with a stranger coming up to you and hugging you, disabled or not?

    I am actually. And let me be clear I'm not take issue with your desire to abort if you know about health/mental issues. Earlier in the thread, one of the repeat posters said "it's about respect for ALL humans" around us regardless of their mental status. Respect. Realizing that you might not feel 100% comfortable with what people around you are doing, but it doesn't make it right or okay to take the "ew they're gross and should be kept out of my sight" approach.

    DH is a pedi and one poor child was delivered very very early due to a terminal genetic malformation. The parents knew the baby would die very shortly after birth. They were in pain about it and didn't want to see the child because it was so hard. DH and his coworker shared time holding this baby for 3 hours until he passed on. They could have set it aside in a warmer/crib to die on its own, but they both believed that no baby should have to die alone and untouched. Why'd they do it? It was disfigured, it's mental capacity was surely impaired, etc. They did it because every living human deserves respect.

    I might not like what someone does or says. But if it's not within their control, I'm certainly not going to treat them like a pariah. Do people with tics creep you out too? Should we put them all in a special place away from you and your hopefully-not-impaired child? The way you talk about your experiences with special needs people is that they shouldn't be allowed to be in high schools, malls, etc. with other "normal" people. And THAT is what is so disgusting and despicable. 

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    imageSpenjamins:
    imagedisbride061103:
    imageSpenjamins:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:
    imagehis1stmy4th:
    imagehollowstar:

    In case it was misunderstood, I tried to explain that if my child came out with a disability I would have a decision to make whether or not adoption would be a better choice. Nowhere have I said that newborns or adults with disabilities shouldn't live once they are here, only that I would opt to terminate if I found out early enough.

    So you don't believe in unconditional love either?

    So you're saying giving up a baby means you don't love them? Do you say that to other moms considering giving up babies for adoption, or just me?

    I may be young but I am adult enough to know my limitations. Giving up a baby is a personal choice and one I would not take lightly regardless of circumstance.

    I would love my child forever, and advocate for and care for them as long as they were in my care.

    No I am not saying giving up a baby means you don't love them but I think that if you are willing to terminate if you find out your child has  Down Syndrome but then turn around and say that later on if something is wrong you would be their advocate is kind of an oxymoron.  I read that as if you find out now you would terminate but if they were born with something you would adopt out BUT if at 2 or 3 years of age they are diagnosed with something else you would be their advocate.  What is the difference if its now, at birth, or years down the road?   I'm just looking for more clear of an understanding.

    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    Really?  I mean really?  You think every mother of a special needs child has feelings of repulsion?  I'm at a loss. 

    Absolutely. And I think this should be discussed as part of a normal process that parents of special needs children go through.

    I'm extremely disheartened to hear that you think EVERY SINGLE MOTHER of a special needs child is repulsed by her child.  You are almost as disgusting as the OP. 

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    imagehollowstar:
    imageSpenjamins:
    For me, I wouldn't KNOWINGLY bring a child in to the world to suffer. How is that so hard to understand?

    Any woman with a special needs child who doesn't admit to some feelings of sadness, guilt, anger, even repulsion....is lying.

    This.

    Once the baby is born, it's here. So I will love it and make a tough decision regarding whether or not I am up to the challenge of the disability and either adopt or not. Later on I'd be much more attached. Least attached to fetus, more attached to baby, and much too attached to an older child to give it up despite any disadvantages. It's not complicated. You do what you can when you can. Whether termination, adoption or keeping the child, the love is the same. I love this baby in me already. But you can love someone and still feel the emotions listed above, including repulsion.

    I honestly feel like I'm more of an adult for being honest about my feelings and not falling back on the classic "All babies are a gift from God". Ever heard of postpartum depression? Birth and children come with a wide range of complicated issues and not all are pretty.

    Oh yes we've heard of PPD. You're damn right that a wide range of events can occur and as a parent you deal with it. You may fall but what counts is what you do afterwards that counts. Repulsion? Are you kidding me. That's like saying you can hate someone but still think they are ok. By the way...I am not religious. 

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    imagedisbride061103:
    imageLCB34:

    imagehollowstar:
    I have seen that and it IS very emotional - I am sure I at least choked up reading it - but it cemented my views. I have to admit that I would be heartbroken and honestly a bit disgusted if my baby was placed into my arms and I realized it had Down Synd. I am sure many of you will find that heartless but it is my gut reaction.

    This comment officially confirms, IMO, you are not mature enough to be a parent.

    What is your mentally *perfect* child wants to be a greeter?  Will you throw then to the wolves b/c they aren't living up to everything you dreamed they would be.

    I am just to disgusted with you right now it is probably best that I leave this thread for good.

     

     

    Amen.  It's one thing to be heartbroken and upset to realize your child will have a lifelong disabiltiy (in fact there is a wonderful blog out there with the story of a mother who found out her child had DS at birth) but to say you will be disgusted and to imply that you will not LOVE or FIGHT for your child with a mental disabiltiy makes you poor excuse for a human being.  You should be ashamed of yourself and I pray that you get your "perfect" child so they will not have to deal with your judgemental attitude.

    I think the poster of this thread is mentally disabled and according to her values and views, she should have been aborted.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker My birthson who came before I was ready. He doesn't call me mom but I love him just the same. ~7/10/99~
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