Vaccines

sschwege

It's a social responsibility in my opinion and those who can be vaccinated should be! 

I don't believe in legally forcing people to do so, however I would like to see an end to exemptions for personal or religious reasons when children enter public school.  Unless your doctor confirms your child is unable to be vaccinated then your child is not allowed in school if they are not up to date, end of story.  There are two states where this is the case and I hope others follow. 

OP: obviously we vaccinate on schedule including the flu shot every year.  The only one we delay and by delay I mean by a matter of weeks is the Hep B vaccine.  I like to get BFing well established before we do it, so we do it at baby's two week appointment.  It's for the same reason we decline baby's first bath, I just don't want anything done that isn't immediately necessary.

mrspark812

kladd7182 said:

@mamamads I have a question that's pretty legit, and not meant to be an asshole question. I can understand why you don't vaccinate, and I'm prochoice on it. With the measles outbreak, some doctors are dropping unvaccinated patients. Does this concern you or make you feel discriminated against?

That's a good question. Before this whole outbreak some doctors would refuse to take on patients who refused vaccines or did delayed schedules so it's nothing new to me. I have found a great pediatrician who does accept patients who don't vaccinate and has a more holistic natural minded approach to medicine. It doesn't make me feel discriminated against at all, I understand why they would think it's a liability to take on those patients and plus it keeps the majority of their patients who are vaccinated feeling safer during this time of panic.

I was wondering. My friend doesn't vaccinate and her doctor dropped her kids. She was outraged, and is goin to talk to a lawyer. Honestly, she doesn't vaccinate out of laziness it sounds like. She says, "it's to many unnessesary trips to the doctor". Other than that she really doesn't have a worthwhile arguement.

I am sorry but your friend is the type of person that pisses me off when it comes to vaccines. She has no legitimate reason not to vaccinate. In my personal opinion unless you have a documented, medical reason not to vaccinate (family history, previous adverse reaction, etc) then you should have to vaccinate. Especially because most people who don't do it have stupid reasons not to...like your friend. We have a friend that has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter do to a family history of autoimmune disease. Although I don't like or agree with her decision, I respect the fact that she spent over a year doing research from legitimate sources before coming to her decision. It is people who listen to idiots like Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Wakefield that are endangering the health and safety of others for no good reason.

There is a bill being proposed here in California that would eliminate a parent's right to skip vaccines for "personal beliefs" A parent of school aged children would have to provide documented medical proof for their child's exception in order to enroll them in school. The bill would focus specifically on the shots required to enroll in school and not every single vaccine available. I personally am completely on board with this (bring on the flaming lol).

Here is an article about it: https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/health/california-measles-outbreak/

mrspark812

Mamamads said:

I will add; for those of you who believe a perfectly healthy non vaccinated kid just carries around disease and is a threat to those with immune compromises. Look into vaccine shedding. For vaccines containing live viruses such as measles, smallpox, rubella, intranasal influenza and chicken pox they recommend not coming in contact with someone with a compromised immune system for up to a month because that is how long you can possibly shed those diseases and infect others after being vaccinated.

@Mamamads Do you have any research that says that vaccinated children can shed the virus for us to a month? Everything I have read said it can happen between 48 hours and up to a week max. I am honestly curious to read what you have found since a month is a lot longer than a week and I'd just like to know what other research is saying. 

ellie9933

I will vaccinate - I would love not to put chemicals in my babies body but believe the alternative is worse. Those who don't vaccinate and say their child is healthy or didn't catch anything it's because everyone around them is vaccinated- MANY children have died from the measles in the past so it doesn't mean it's not possible. I just don't understand parents who don't vaccinate and then their kids are eating processed food more chemicals in there then in a vaccine... Just my opinion

sschwege

And @mamamads anything from Natural News is not considered a reliable source. 

kelckings

@moonrisemama‌ I read your comment and actually am going to research that. Some vaccines are a lot more complicated than just one specific strain. It is true that viruses mutate but explain why this is the biggest measles outbreak and we have the highest unvaccinated rate since the 1960s?? Again, I haven't done my research yet but I will and ill for sure post what I find.

kladd7182

mrspark812 said:

kladd7182 said:

Mamamads said:

kladd7182 said:

@mamamads I have a question that's pretty legit, and not meant to be an asshole question. I can understand why you don't vaccinate, and I'm prochoice on it. With the measles outbreak, some doctors are dropping unvaccinated patients. Does this concern you or make you feel discriminated against?

That's a good question. Before this whole outbreak some doctors would refuse to take on patients who refused vaccines or did delayed schedules so it's nothing new to me. I have found a great pediatrician who does accept patients who don't vaccinate and has a more holistic natural minded approach to medicine. It doesn't make me feel discriminated against at all, I understand why they would think it's a liability to take on those patients and plus it keeps the majority of their patients who are vaccinated feeling safer during this time of panic.

I was wondering. My friend doesn't vaccinate and her doctor dropped her kids. She was outraged, and is goin to talk to a lawyer. Honestly, she doesn't vaccinate out of laziness it sounds like. She says, "it's to many unnessesary trips to the doctor". Other than that she really doesn't have a worthwhile arguement.

I
am sorry but your friend is the type of person that pisses me off when it comes
to vaccines. She has no legitimate reason not to vaccinate. In my personal
opinion unless you have a documented, medical reason not to vaccinate (family
history, previous adverse reaction, etc) then you should have to vaccinate.
Especially because most people who don't do it have stupid reasons not to...like
your friend. We have a friend that has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter do
to a family history of autoimmune disease. Although I don't like or agree with her decision,
I respect the fact that she spent over a year doing research from legitimate
sources before coming to her decision. It is people who listen to idiots like
Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Wakefield that are endangering the
health and safety of others for no good reason.

There is a bill being proposed here in California that would eliminate a parent's right to skip vaccines for "personal beliefs" A parent of school aged children would have to provide documented medical proof for their child's exception in order to enroll them in school. The bill would focus specifically on the shots required to enroll in school and not every single vaccine available. I personally am completely on board with this (bring on the flaming lol).

Here is an article about it: https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/health/california-measles-outbreak/

first I have to Google what Jenny McCarthy has anything to do with anything. Wasn't she an MTV personality?

mrspark812

moonrisemama said:

I wish everyone would read my comment...the vaccine does not protect against the current strain that is circulating...

Would you be willing to share your research on this? Because my understanding is the measles is one of the most consistent viruses out there. It hardly mutates. So the virus that gave my dad measles 60+ years ago is basically the same one still around today. Vs the flu virus that mutates every year. This is one reason the measles vaccine has been so effective at preventing the disease. 

asherk

@moonrisemama do you have a source for that information? the CDC has reported that it is the B3 strain that is circulating, which has been the dominant strain in other parts of the world over the last few years, but mentions nothing about the vaccine being ineffective against this particular strain. a quick google search didn't turn anything up for me either.

vaccines work by exposing your immune system to weakened viruses, so you can develop the appropriate antibodies to combat them. the information is stored in your immune system's 'memory,' so that if you're exposed to it again, you can quickly manufacture the antibodies to eliminate the illness before you get sick. it is possible, that though this is a different strain than the one used in the measles vaccine, that the antibodies are still similar enough that your body enacts the appropriate immune response, and therefore keeps your immunity.

(and please don't think i'm trying to be argumentative; as a former microbiologist i'm just curious )

sschwege

moonrisemama said:

I wish everyone would read my comment...the vaccine does not protect against the current strain that is circulating...

I read it but decided to ignore it until now.  I can't find any reliable source to back up your claim and by reliable I mean CDC, WHO, etc. 

If you try to post your source of Natural News or some other equally unreliable source I won't waste my time.

I'm from Chicago, in the suburbs there has been 5 cases of measles which started at a daycare center.  All 5 of the children are under the age of one, thus too young to be vaccinated, don't you think things would be a lot worse if the vaccine wasn't working? @moonrisemama

kelckings

Also @moonrisemama‌ this isn't just about measles, vaccines have eradicated a handful of deadly diseases. If you've never taken care of/known of a person who has been debilitated by polio I really don't know if you can comprehend how amazing vaccines truly are.

audi681

I am pro-vaccination. I understand it is a choice, and my choice is to vaccinate. I also think Jenny McCarthy is a terrible person and preached nonsense to the public regarding something she knew little about. Vaccinations do not cause autism. Enough said about that. 

I had the chicken pox when I was a child... 12 to be exact. When my husband and I started IVF, I was required to get the vaccination before they would proceed. I did not have the antibodies in my system. So yes, you can have the chicken pox and not be immune. 

sschwege

kelckings said:

Also @moonrisemama‌ this isn't just about measles, vaccines have eradicated a handful of deadly diseases. If you've never taken care of/known of a person who has been debilitated by polio I really don't know if you can comprehend how amazing vaccines truly are.

Yes, think small pox.  We don't even vaccinate children for that anymore because well, vaccines work!

Mamamads

kelckings said:

It's not really even about just protecting your kids, it's about protecting the general public. Most vaccines are around 10% ineffective already plus the part of the population who can't get vaccinated (immunocompromised, too young for the vaccine, etc) are already not protected. By spreading that vaccines are "dangerous" "unnecessary" or "harmful" is almost as scary as not vaccinating at all. Let's say that another 10% don't vaccinate at all because of their beliefs, now we have 20%+ kiddos not vaccinated. That's a very dangerous situation. More or less, in my opinion, not vaccinating children is extremely dangerous. You wouldn't purposely put your kid in danger and people should have the same respect for other people's children. I respect those who don't vaccinate are entitled to their opinion and I would just ask that you keep them away from my child until she is fully vaccinated. A scary thing to think an unvaccinated 7 year old can spread measles to my 6 month old because she is too young to be vaccinated yet all because another parent put my child in danger. Just needed to make sure people saw another side on this post to hopefully spark an interest in doing your own research before blindly following what someone read on a post.

Here is the thing though, it is not my responsibility to protect anyones kids besides my own. If you bring your 4 month old to Disneyland with people from all over the world and they fall ill well that's on you because you should know infants immune systems can not take an a bush of germs like that. In a perfect world vaccines would be 100% effective with zero side effects and nobody would be having this conversation. But the truth is this isn't something that poses zero risks and it also isn't something guaranteeing you from getting these diseases. Furthermore herd immunity you speak of was coined by researcher A W Hendrich who studied measles in America from 1900-1931 and was based on the immunity granted from having had the disease not from immunizations. He studied how many people would be protected if a certain amount were truly immune from having had the measles and wouldn't spread them to anyone else. This is a HUGE misconception that people think they are protecting others by getting these vaccines because plain and simple you aren't. As I stated before vaccine shedding is real(cdc acknowledges this) and just because a child is not vaccinated does not mean they are a carrier of all diseases, let's be honest that makes absolutely no sense. So if my child comes down with something THEN it is my responsibility to keep them home and away from people with weak immune systems. It isn't however my "duty" to society to do something that could harm my child in various degrees so that the public feels safe, just no.

mrspark812

kladd7182 said:

kladd7182 said:

@mamamads I have a question that's pretty legit, and not meant to be an asshole question. I can understand why you don't vaccinate, and I'm prochoice on it. With the measles outbreak, some doctors are dropping unvaccinated patients. Does this concern you or make you feel discriminated against?

That's a good question. Before this whole outbreak some doctors would refuse to take on patients who refused vaccines or did delayed schedules so it's nothing new to me. I have found a great pediatrician who does accept patients who don't vaccinate and has a more holistic natural minded approach to medicine. It doesn't make me feel discriminated against at all, I understand why they would think it's a liability to take on those patients and plus it keeps the majority of their patients who are vaccinated feeling safer during this time of panic.

I was wondering. My friend doesn't vaccinate and her doctor dropped her kids. She was outraged, and is goin to talk to a lawyer. Honestly, she doesn't vaccinate out of laziness it sounds like. She says, "it's to many unnessesary trips to the doctor". Other than that she really doesn't have a worthwhile arguement.

I am sorry but your friend is the type of person that pisses me off when it comes to vaccines. She has no legitimate reason not to vaccinate. In my personal opinion unless you have a documented, medical reason not to vaccinate (family history, previous adverse reaction, etc) then you should have to vaccinate. Especially because most people who don't do it have stupid reasons not to...like your friend. We have a friend that has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter do to a family history of autoimmune disease. Although I don't like or agree with her decision, I respect the fact that she spent over a year doing research from legitimate sources before coming to her decision. It is people who listen to idiots like Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Wakefield that are endangering the health and safety of others for no good reason.

There is a bill being proposed here in California that would eliminate a parent's right to skip vaccines for "personal beliefs" A parent of school aged children would have to provide documented medical proof for their child's exception in order to enroll them in school. The bill would focus specifically on the shots required to enroll in school and not every single vaccine available. I personally am completely on board with this (bring on the flaming lol).

Here is an article about it: https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/health/california-measles-outbreak/

first I have to Google what Jenny McCarthy has anything to do with anything. Wasn't she an MTV personality?

She was actually a Playboy Bunny who basically spear headed the campaign saying that vaccines cause autism based on falsified studies conducted by Dr Wakefield. 
Probably not the best source I'll admit but it gives you the idea of her connection to the anti-vax momement:
https://nypost.com/2014/03/18/anti-vaccine-activist-jenny-mccarthy-mother-of-plagues/

Mamamads

Also you prove how little you know about this all when you constantly claim Jenny McCarthy as the reason people don't vaccinate. Her kid got autism like seven Years ago.. Let it
Go.

Mamamads

mrspark812 said:

Mamamads said:

I will add; for those of you who believe a perfectly healthy non vaccinated kid just carries around disease and is a threat to those with immune compromises. Look into vaccine shedding. For vaccines containing live viruses such as measles, smallpox, rubella, intranasal influenza and chicken pox they recommend not coming in contact with someone with a compromised immune system for up to a month because that is how long you can possibly shed those diseases and infect others after being vaccinated.

@Mamamads Do you have any research that says that vaccinated children can shed the virus for us to a month? Everything I have read said it can happen between 48 hours and up to a week max. I am honestly curious to read what you have found since a month is a lot longer than a week and I'd just like to know what other research is saying. 

Gimme a second I'll try and find where I just read that, I'm not sure if it's different lengths of time for different vaccines but I'll let you know.

asherk

@moonrisemama that's what i had seen from the CDC as well, but it still doesn't say anything about the vaccine being ineffective against the current strain. i feel like, if that were the case, we'd be dealing with thousands of individuals coming down with the disease, instead of just a hundred or so.

mrspark812

Mamamads said:

Mamamads said:

I will add; for those of you who believe a perfectly healthy non vaccinated kid just carries around disease and is a threat to those with immune compromises. Look into vaccine shedding. For vaccines containing live viruses such as measles, smallpox, rubella, intranasal influenza and chicken pox they recommend not coming in contact with someone with a compromised immune system for up to a month because that is how long you can possibly shed those diseases and infect others after being vaccinated.

@Mamamads Do you have any research that says that vaccinated children can shed the virus for us to a month? Everything I have read said it can happen between 48 hours and up to a week max. I am honestly curious to read what you have found since a month is a lot longer than a week and I'd just like to know what other research is saying. 

Gimme a second I'll try and find where I just read that, I'm not sure if it's different lengths of time for different vaccines but I'll let you know.

Thanks! No rush at all! I am just curious to see what you've found.

sschwege

Mamamads said:

It's not really even about just protecting your kids, it's about protecting the general public. Most vaccines are around 10% ineffective already plus the part of the population who can't get vaccinated (immunocompromised, too young for the vaccine, etc) are already not protected. By spreading that vaccines are "dangerous" "unnecessary" or "harmful" is almost as scary as not vaccinating at all. Let's say that another 10% don't vaccinate at all because of their beliefs, now we have 20%+ kiddos not vaccinated. That's a very dangerous situation. More or less, in my opinion, not vaccinating children is extremely dangerous. You wouldn't purposely put your kid in danger and people should have the same respect for other people's children. I respect those who don't vaccinate are entitled to their opinion and I would just ask that you keep them away from my child until she is fully vaccinated. A scary thing to think an unvaccinated 7 year old can spread measles to my 6 month old because she is too young to be vaccinated yet all because another parent put my child in danger. Just needed to make sure people saw another side on this post to hopefully spark an interest in doing your own research before blindly following what someone read on a post.

Here is the thing though, it is not my responsibility to protect anyones kids besides my own. If you bring your 4 month old to Disneyland with people from all over the world and they fall ill well that's on you because you should know infants immune systems can not take an a bush of germs like that. In a perfect world vaccines would be 100% effective with zero side effects and nobody would be having this conversation. But the truth is this isn't something that poses zero risks and it also isn't something guaranteeing you from getting these diseases. Furthermore herd immunity you speak of was coined by researcher A W Hendrich who studied measles in America from 1900-1931 and was based on the immunity granted from having had the disease not from immunizations. He studied how many people would be protected if a certain amount were truly immune from having had the measles and wouldn't spread them to anyone else. This is a HUGE misconception that people think they are protecting others by getting these vaccines because plain and simple you aren't. As I stated before vaccine shedding is real(cdc acknowledges this) and just because a child is not vaccinated does not mean they are a carrier of all diseases, let's be honest that makes absolutely no sense. So if my child comes down with something THEN it is my responsibility to keep them home and away from people with weak immune systems. It isn't however my "duty" to society to do something that could harm my child in various degrees so that the public feels safe, just no.

That is a really lousy thing to say.  The children who were infected near Chicago where we live got it from daycare.  Do you want to go a step further and say, "If you want to bring your child to daycare where they will be around other children and they fall ill well that's on you because you know infants(')sic can not take an (on) sic a bush of germs like that." Sorry those parents had to go to work!

@mamamads

mrspark812

moonrisemama said:

Would you mind posting the link that you found this on rather that just a screen shot. I'd like to read the report in its entirety. Because what I am reading does not mention anything about the vaccine not protecting against the B3 genotype. And it says that only 9 people out of what 99 now confirmed cases can be connected to that genotype. Personally I have a hard time stating that because less that 10% of those who contracted the disease have this genotype that it is the main strain causing the infection. Again If I was able to read the complete report I might be able to understand it better. 

Mamamads

sschwege said:

Mamamads said:

kelckings said:

It's not really even about just protecting your kids, it's about protecting the general public. Most vaccines are around 10% ineffective already plus the part of the population who can't get vaccinated (immunocompromised, too young for the vaccine, etc) are already not protected. By spreading that vaccines are "dangerous" "unnecessary" or "harmful" is almost as scary as not vaccinating at all. Let's say that another 10% don't vaccinate at all because of their beliefs, now we have 20%+ kiddos not vaccinated. That's a very dangerous situation. More or less, in my opinion, not vaccinating children is extremely dangerous. You wouldn't purposely put your kid in danger and people should have the same respect for other people's children. I respect those who don't vaccinate are entitled to their opinion and I would just ask that you keep them away from my child until she is fully vaccinated. A scary thing to think an unvaccinated 7 year old can spread measles to my 6 month old because she is too young to be vaccinated yet all because another parent put my child in danger. Just needed to make sure people saw another side on this post to hopefully spark an interest in doing your own research before blindly following what someone read on a post.

Here is the thing though, it is not my responsibility to protect anyones kids besides my own. If you bring your 4 month old to Disneyland with people from all over the world and they fall ill well that's on you because you should know infants immune systems can not take an a bush of germs like that. In a perfect world vaccines would be 100% effective with zero side effects and nobody would be having this conversation. But the truth is this isn't something that poses zero risks and it also isn't something guaranteeing you from getting these diseases. Furthermore herd immunity you speak of was coined by researcher A W Hendrich who studied measles in America from 1900-1931 and was based on the immunity granted from having had the disease not from immunizations. He studied how many people would be protected if a certain amount were truly immune from having had the measles and wouldn't spread them to anyone else. This is a HUGE misconception that people think they are protecting others by getting these vaccines because plain and simple you aren't. As I stated before vaccine shedding is real(cdc acknowledges this) and just because a child is not vaccinated does not mean they are a carrier of all diseases, let's be honest that makes absolutely no sense. So if my child comes down with something THEN it is my responsibility to keep them home and away from people with weak immune systems. It isn't however my "duty" to society to do something that could harm my child in various degrees so that the public feels safe, just no.

That is a really lousy thing to say.  The children who were infected near Chicago where we live got it from daycare.  Do you want to go a step further and say, "If you want to bring your child to daycare where they will be around other children and they fall ill well that's on you because you know infants(')sic can not take an (on) sic a bush of germs like that." Sorry those parents had to go to work!

@mamamads


How is that a lousy thing to say? It's the truth. The world is full of risks so by taking your newborn to a public
Place you are taking on the risk they could get ill. It is the responsibility of the person with a sick child to keep their child home/ find alternate childcare so they aren't putting other children at risk of getting sick. But yes you do take the chance of your kid going to daycare and getting sick.. That is a choice you make as the parent. I avoid the childcare center at my gym because I'm sure it's full of germs and little kids sneezing and wiping snot all over..so I avoid it. I don't go blaming the children's parents their for having sick kids even though yes they should be keeping them home, instead I keep my child away from there.. Hence it being my responsibility nobody else's.

mrspark812

moonrisemama 

never mind found it.

asherk

@moonrisemama the genotype refers to the exact sequence of DNA found in that particular strain. DNA is often redundant, and you can have a different sequence that still codes for the same proteins, which would build the same basic virus and mean your body would react to it the same as it would to the vaccinated strain. there are also often chunks of 'nonsense' DNA that don't code for anything, which, again, could result in a different genotype, but still the same proteins and the same basic virus.

the flu vaccine is usually created to treat the top 3 predicted strands for that flu season, but even if you get one of the different strands, your body can still react and knock the virus out faster than someone who is unvaccinated. with measles, it has mutated very little since the vaccine was created (due to the low amount of transmission once the general public developed immunity), so having a slightly different genotype or being a slightly different strain doesn't necessarily mean that BAM it's a new virus and the vaccine is rendered ineffective.

i guess i would need to see something that states that the vaccine is ineffective against whatever strain is circulating around. and again, i'm not trying to be argumentative, i just want to be informed on the issue.

Mamamads

mrspark812 said:

kladd7182 said:

mrspark812 said:

kladd7182 said:

Mamamads said:

kladd7182 said:

@mamamads I have a question that's pretty legit, and not meant to be an asshole question. I can understand why you don't vaccinate, and I'm prochoice on it. With the measles outbreak, some doctors are dropping unvaccinated patients. Does this concern you or make you feel discriminated against?

That's a good question. Before this whole outbreak some doctors would refuse to take on patients who refused vaccines or did delayed schedules so it's nothing new to me. I have found a great pediatrician who does accept patients who don't vaccinate and has a more holistic natural minded approach to medicine. It doesn't make me feel discriminated against at all, I understand why they would think it's a liability to take on those patients and plus it keeps the majority of their patients who are vaccinated feeling safer during this time of panic.

I was wondering. My friend doesn't vaccinate and her doctor dropped her kids. She was outraged, and is goin to talk to a lawyer. Honestly, she doesn't vaccinate out of laziness it sounds like. She says, "it's to many unnessesary trips to the doctor". Other than that she really doesn't have a worthwhile arguement.

I
am sorry but your friend is the type of person that pisses me off when it comes
to vaccines. She has no legitimate reason not to vaccinate. In my personal
opinion unless you have a documented, medical reason not to vaccinate (family
history, previous adverse reaction, etc) then you should have to vaccinate.
Especially because most people who don't do it have stupid reasons not to...like
your friend. We have a friend that has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter do
to a family history of autoimmune disease. Although I don't like or agree with her decision,
I respect the fact that she spent over a year doing research from legitimate
sources before coming to her decision. It is people who listen to idiots like
Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Wakefield that are endangering the
health and safety of others for no good reason.

There is a bill being proposed here in California that would eliminate a parent's right to skip vaccines for "personal beliefs" A parent of school aged children would have to provide documented medical proof for their child's exception in order to enroll them in school. The bill would focus specifically on the shots required to enroll in school and not every single vaccine available. I personally am completely on board with this (bring on the flaming lol).

Here is an article about it: https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/health/california-measles-outbreak/

first I have to Google what Jenny McCarthy has anything to do with anything. Wasn't she an MTV personality?

She was actually a Playboy Bunny who basically spear headed the campaign saying that vaccines cause autism based on falsified studies conducted by Dr Wakefield. 
Probably not the best source I'll admit but it gives you the idea of her connection to the anti-vax momement:
https://nypost.com/2014/03/18/anti-vaccine-activist-jenny-mccarthy-mother-of-plagues/


Sure she had some connection to the anti vaccine movement as in being a celebrity who spoke out against vaccines having a platform to speak from. But she was hardly the beginning or spear head behind it. People have been questioning and refusing vaccines looooong before her, it just amazes me people still bring her up in this conversation. Rest assured she had zero to do with my decision to not vaccinate lol

sschwege

Mamamads said:

Mamamads said:

It's not really even about just protecting your kids, it's about protecting the general public. Most vaccines are around 10% ineffective already plus the part of the population who can't get vaccinated (immunocompromised, too young for the vaccine, etc) are already not protected. By spreading that vaccines are "dangerous" "unnecessary" or "harmful" is almost as scary as not vaccinating at all. Let's say that another 10% don't vaccinate at all because of their beliefs, now we have 20%+ kiddos not vaccinated. That's a very dangerous situation. More or less, in my opinion, not vaccinating children is extremely dangerous. You wouldn't purposely put your kid in danger and people should have the same respect for other people's children. I respect those who don't vaccinate are entitled to their opinion and I would just ask that you keep them away from my child until she is fully vaccinated. A scary thing to think an unvaccinated 7 year old can spread measles to my 6 month old because she is too young to be vaccinated yet all because another parent put my child in danger. Just needed to make sure people saw another side on this post to hopefully spark an interest in doing your own research before blindly following what someone read on a post.

Here is the thing though, it is not my responsibility to protect anyones kids besides my own. If you bring your 4 month old to Disneyland with people from all over the world and they fall ill well that's on you because you should know infants immune systems can not take an a bush of germs like that. In a perfect world vaccines would be 100% effective with zero side effects and nobody would be having this conversation. But the truth is this isn't something that poses zero risks and it also isn't something guaranteeing you from getting these diseases. Furthermore herd immunity you speak of was coined by researcher A W Hendrich who studied measles in America from 1900-1931 and was based on the immunity granted from having had the disease not from immunizations. He studied how many people would be protected if a certain amount were truly immune from having had the measles and wouldn't spread them to anyone else. This is a HUGE misconception that people think they are protecting others by getting these vaccines because plain and simple you aren't. As I stated before vaccine shedding is real(cdc acknowledges this) and just because a child is not vaccinated does not mean they are a carrier of all diseases, let's be honest that makes absolutely no sense. So if my child comes down with something THEN it is my responsibility to keep them home and away from people with weak immune systems. It isn't however my "duty" to society to do something that could harm my child in various degrees so that the public feels safe, just no.

That is a really lousy thing to say.  The children who were infected near Chicago where we live got it from daycare.  Do you want to go a step further and say, "If you want to bring your child to daycare where they will be around other children and they fall ill well that's on you because you know infants(')sic can not take an (on) sic a bush of germs like that." Sorry those parents had to go to work!

@mamamads

How is that a lousy thing to say? It's the truth. The world is full of risks so by taking your newborn to a public Place you are taking on the risk they could get ill. It is the responsibility of the person with a sick child to keep their child home/ find alternate childcare so they aren't putting other children at risk of getting sick. But yes you do take the chance of your kid going to daycare and getting sick.. That is a choice you make as the parent. I avoid the childcare center at my gym because I'm sure it's full of germs and little kids sneezing and wiping snot all over..so I avoid it. I don't go blaming the children's parents their for having sick kids even though yes they should be keeping them home, instead I keep my child away from there.. Hence it being my responsibility nobody else's.

Oh, I think I understand now, so by choosing to go to work those parents should take responsibility for their children getting the measles.  After all if the parent didn't return to work their child probably wouldn't be sick right, that was their choice as a parent.  

Ckorines

I respect everyone's decision to do what they think is best for their children...but just curious. Where is everyone getting their information either pro/con vaccination? I can fully admit I have done no personal research but have put my complete trust in my daughter's pediatricians because they went to school and studied all of this information. I will never pretend to know more than them.

denita86

I am totally pro vaccines and surprised here in the US is even an option. I was forced to have the MMR vaccine (even tho i already had it when I was a kid) in order to get my green card but people can just skip vaccinating kids...it is ridiculous IMO. This not only affect your kid it affects everyone around him (I remember having the 3 doses of hep b vaccine at school!). I think to follow the vaccines calendar should be mandatory (specially to enroll kids in daycares or schools)...freedom is definitely awesome but too much freedom can be prejudicial...

mrspark812

Mamamads said:

kladd7182 said:

kladd7182 said:

@mamamads I have a question that's pretty legit, and not meant to be an asshole question. I can understand why you don't vaccinate, and I'm prochoice on it. With the measles outbreak, some doctors are dropping unvaccinated patients. Does this concern you or make you feel discriminated against?

That's a good question. Before this whole outbreak some doctors would refuse to take on patients who refused vaccines or did delayed schedules so it's nothing new to me. I have found a great pediatrician who does accept patients who don't vaccinate and has a more holistic natural minded approach to medicine. It doesn't make me feel discriminated against at all, I understand why they would think it's a liability to take on those patients and plus it keeps the majority of their patients who are vaccinated feeling safer during this time of panic.

I was wondering. My friend doesn't vaccinate and her doctor dropped her kids. She was outraged, and is goin to talk to a lawyer. Honestly, she doesn't vaccinate out of laziness it sounds like. She says, "it's to many unnessesary trips to the doctor". Other than that she really doesn't have a worthwhile arguement.

I am sorry but your friend is the type of person that pisses me off when it comes to vaccines. She has no legitimate reason not to vaccinate. In my personal opinion unless you have a documented, medical reason not to vaccinate (family history, previous adverse reaction, etc) then you should have to vaccinate. Especially because most people who don't do it have stupid reasons not to...like your friend. We have a friend that has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter do to a family history of autoimmune disease. Although I don't like or agree with her decision, I respect the fact that she spent over a year doing research from legitimate sources before coming to her decision. It is people who listen to idiots like Jenny McCarthy and Dr. Wakefield that are endangering the health and safety of others for no good reason.

There is a bill being proposed here in California that would eliminate a parent's right to skip vaccines for "personal beliefs" A parent of school aged children would have to provide documented medical proof for their child's exception in order to enroll them in school. The bill would focus specifically on the shots required to enroll in school and not every single vaccine available. I personally am completely on board with this (bring on the flaming lol).

Here is an article about it: https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/health/california-measles-outbreak/

first I have to Google what Jenny McCarthy has anything to do with anything. Wasn't she an MTV personality?

She was actually a Playboy Bunny who basically spear headed the campaign saying that vaccines cause autism based on falsified studies conducted by Dr Wakefield. 
Probably not the best source I'll admit but it gives you the idea of her connection to the anti-vax momement:
https://nypost.com/2014/03/18/anti-vaccine-activist-jenny-mccarthy-mother-of-plagues/

Sure she had some connection to the anti vaccine movement as in being a celebrity who spoke out against vaccines having a platform to speak from. But she was hardly the beginning or spear head behind it. People have been questioning and refusing vaccines looooong before her, it just amazes me people still bring her up in this conversation. Rest assured she had zero to do with my decision to not vaccinate lol

I never said I thought she was the reason you chose not to vaccinate...from what I've read you actually sound like you did some legitimate research. Unfortunately most people in this world are dumb and will take something a celebrity says as the truth without actually doing research. "Oh so-n-so said that, it must be true"  "Oh its on the internet...it HAS to be true" 

Yes people have been refusing vaccines long before she came a long but she has definitely been at the forefront of the anti-vax movement in recent years. And because she is celebrity she has the platform to spread false information. 

Mamamads

@sschwege‌ The point is by taking your child in public especially to a day care(petridish) you are putting them at risk for getting sick. If you don't see a problem with mingling an infant with loads of people at a place like Disneyland then how is that anyone else's fault but your own? It isn't. They are your kids they are your responsibility. Like I said when mine is ill I would
Keep them home, otherwise she isn't harming anyone.

kelckings

@mamamads it doesnt really matter what you say back to me about it. I really hope that my child isnt diagnosed with a immune problem/ blood disorder where they cant be vaccinated and add to the already high % of people choosing to not vaccinate.  Also, you technically do HAVE to take your child into the public at some point, if nothing else, to go to the doctor. So I will have to research and find a doc that only excepts vaccinated children and I have the right to do that just as you have the right to find one who excepts yours. I have a pretty overall knowledge of microbio and a pretty extensive human immune background so I know why I feel the way I do and feel it is backed with facts. (just as I am sure you do your own research) It is true that I am at my own risk taking an infant out into the public but I would never wish hurting your child so I think it is very sad you feel that way. I respect your wish to not vaccinate even if I dont understand it and also that you home school your children. No hard feelings, I just posted to make sure the other side was well accounted for.

mrspark812

kelckings said:

@mamamads it doesnt really matter what you say back to me about it. I really hope that my child isnt diagnosed with a immune problem/ blood disorder where they cant be vaccinated and add to the already high % of people choosing to not vaccinate.  Also, you technically do HAVE to take your child into the public at some point, if nothing else, to go to the doctor. So I will have to research and find a doc that only excepts vaccinated children and I have the right to do that just as you have the right to find one who excepts yours. I have a pretty overall knowledge of microbio and a pretty extensive human immune background so I know why I feel the way I do and feel it is backed with facts. (just as I am sure you do your own research) It is true that I am at my own risk taking an infant out into the public
but I would never wish hurting your child so I think it is very sad you
feel that way. I respect your wish to not vaccinate even if I dont understand it and also that you home school your children. No hard feelings, I just posted to make sure the other side was well accounted for.

Thank you. I didn't want to get into this part of the debate because I'd say some not nice things. So thank you for putting it so well and speaking up for "the other side" as you put it lol


The only thing I will contribute to this is a major eye roll and a sigh of disbelief.

sschwege

Mamamads said:

@sschwege‌ The point is by taking your child in public especially to a day care(petridish) you are putting them at risk for getting sick. If you don't see a problem with mingling an infant with loads of people at a place like Disneyland then how is that anyone else's fault but your own? It isn't. They are your kids they are your responsibility. Like I said when mine is ill I would Keep them home, otherwise she isn't harming anyone.

I am a SAHM and my children have never been to daycare and I still find what you are saying offensive, putting the fault in the hands of the parents is just wrong. 

kelckings

Mamamads said:

@sschwege‌ The point is by taking your child in public especially to a day care(petridish) you are putting them at risk for getting sick. If you don't see a problem with mingling an infant with loads of people at a place like Disneyland then how is that anyone else's fault but your own? It isn't. They are your kids they are your responsibility. Like I said when mine is ill I would Keep them home, otherwise she isn't harming anyone.

We arent talking about the common cold here, we are talking about debilitating and deadly diseases. I agree at childcare you are at risk for your child getting a snotty nose but not polio. measles, etc. Just a problem I have with your argument here. Also, these deadly viruses have an incubation period just like less deadly viruses such as the cold. Therefore, you may not know your unvaccinated child had the measles until it was already spread to a bunch of infants under 1 year.

audi681

Mamamads said:

Also you prove how little you know about this all when you constantly claim Jenny McCarthy as the reason people don't vaccinate. Her kid got autism like seven Years ago.. Let it Go.

  I think a lot of women were influenced by a celebrity going on quite a tirade for 3 years! I would imagine there are a percentage of women who did not vaccinate at that time due to her misappropriation of information, and solely due to her. 

I have taught an autistic kindergarten/first grade classroom for 10 years. My undergrad is in Special Education, and my Master's +15 more credits was focused on educating children with autism. Needless to say, the topic sits with me, and doesn't sit well. I, unfortunately, still see people on FB posting that ridiculous article about the "link" between autism and vaccinations. It really enrages me. 

Here is very well written article from the mother of a child with autism: 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/carrie-cariello/i-know-what-causes-autism_b_6503398.html

Yes, yes, yes... it's the HuffPost and not the Times, but I think it is still well written

asherk

sschwege said:

Mamamads said:

@sschwege‌ The point is by taking your child in public especially to a day care(petridish) you are putting them at risk for getting sick. If you don't see a problem with mingling an infant with loads of people at a place like Disneyland then how is that anyone else's fault but your own? It isn't. They are your kids they are your responsibility. Like I said when mine is ill I would Keep them home, otherwise she isn't harming anyone.

I am a SAHM and my children have never been to daycare and I still find what you are saying offensive, putting the fault in the hands of the parents is just wrong. 

this is an extreme example, i know, but by that logic i could make the argument that, if i were hit and injured by a drunk driver, it would be my own fault and i need to take responsibility, because i should have known there was a risk that i could get hit as soon as i got on the road. the world is full of risks, but there are so many things that the general public can do to lessen those risks. nobody lives in a bubble. i guess i feel like it should be everyone's responsibility to contribute to public heath and safety (and vaccines are one way to do that), but again, i know and respect that it is your decision to make.

kelckings

@mrspark812 thanks for saying thanks! ha but honestly I just dont want someone who is maybe not educated on the issue to come by and read something and then think it is 100% true or follow what someone else is doing just because. I really think its fine to not vaccinate if just ONE person out of a large handful does it, but to spread that belief to other people is not needed and is frankly dangerous.

CassHerbert

I studied this in university and have a degree in microbiology, immunology, & biotechnology. I can't even fathom why people think vaccines are harmful or unnecessary. There have been large amounts Scientific studies and case studies that monitor the short term and long term effects of vaccines. The studies quoted by anti vaccine propagandy websites have been thoroughly disproven or are based on pseudoscience. There has been an expontential decrease in the mortalilty and incidence rate of most preventable chilhood diseases since the introduction of vaccines starting in the 1950s. Mortality rates are a poor way to judge vaccine effieciency.
 Life Long Side effects of Polio: Paralysis
Life Long Side Effects of Measles: hearing loss and mental issues
Life Long Side Effects of Mumps: Infertility
The list goes on......I don't think that the miniscule change of your child having a reaction to the vaccine should be enough to prevent you from seriously considering the full schedule of vaccinations. I also believe that a healthy community is important. People think this is a personal choice but it is not! I know tons of people with compromised immune systems: Pregnant women, seniors, babies, people with auto-immune disorders such as lupus, cancer patients, etc. There are also people that do not vaccinate due to allergies to ingredients in the vaccines. I have heard of people dealing with it as an adult because they would rather be vaccinated than have an allergic reaction. The point is that we don't live miles apart, we live right next door to eachother. Our families use the same schools, grocery stores, banks, hospitals....There is no way to avoid viruses and bacteria in these situations. A healthy community with good vaccination records will not have a problem with preventable diseases. All in all, I would recommend that you check your vaccine titres as well. Chickenpox or rubella can lead to miscarriage or damage to your baby. I even recommend the flu shot while pregnant. My aunt got pneumonia while pregnant and spent a week in the hospital and went into early labour. Please think about how your decisions affect the lives of others. There is a reasons why it is mandatory to wear seatbelts and have brakes in your car. Big Pharm isn't out to get you. They don't make money giving you cures.

Mamamads

@kelckings‌ I'm afraid you have misconstrued what I was saying. I don't wish anyones child to get sick. Nowhere did I say that. All I am saying is this. If your child is old enough to be vaccinated then under your logic they are protected from these disease/my child. If your child is very young chances are you are avoiding crowded areas full of germs Etc for the most part because you are protecting their weak immune systems. I am also saying bottom line I am not willing to possibly harm or kill my child to be part of the theoretical "herd" and make other parents feel better. People will make decisions you don't agree with or that you believe to be harmful but just by living your life and leaving the house you take risks every day and will be in contact with these people, that's just life. All you can do is what you think is best for your kid and make good choices, what you can't do is tell other parents what choices to make regardless of how beneficial you think it is to your children.

Ckorines

CassHerbert said:

I studied this in university and have a degree in microbiology, immunology, & biotechnology. I can't even fathom why people think vaccines are harmful or unnecessary. There have been large amounts Scientific studies and case studies that monitor the short term and long term effects of vaccines. The studies quoted by anti vaccine propagandy websites have been thoroughly disproven or are based on pseudoscience. There has been an expontential decrease in the mortalilty and incidence rate of most preventable chilhood diseases since the introduction of vaccines starting in the 1950s. Mortality rates are a poor way to judge vaccine effieciency.
 Life Long Side effects of Polio: Paralysis
Life Long Side Effects of Measles: hearing loss and mental issues
Life Long Side Effects of Mumps: Infertility
The list goes on......I don't think that the miniscule change of your child having a reaction to the vaccine should be enough to prevent you from seriously considering the full schedule of vaccinations. I also believe that a healthy community is important. People think this is a personal choice but it is not! I know tons of people with compromised immune systems: Pregnant women, seniors, babies, people with auto-immune disorders such as lupus, cancer patients, etc. There are also people that do not vaccinate due to allergies to ingredients in the vaccines. I have heard of people dealing with it as an adult because they would rather be vaccinated than have an allergic reaction. The point is that we don't live miles apart, we live right next door to eachother. Our families use the same schools, grocery stores, banks, hospitals....There is no way to avoid viruses and bacteria in these situations. A healthy community with good vaccination records will not have a problem with preventable diseases. All in all, I would recommend that you check your vaccine titres as well. Chickenpox or rubella can lead to miscarriage or damage to your baby. I even recommend the flu shot while pregnant. My aunt got pneumonia while pregnant and spent a week in the hospital and went into early labour. Please think about how your decisions affect the lives of others. There is a reasons why it is mandatory to wear seatbelts and have brakes in your car. Big Pharm isn't out to get you. They don't make money giving you cures.

Beautiful answer! You are the first person to cite their opinion/information with credible sources. Thanks for sharing!!!!