October 2014 Moms
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Breastfeeding Links & Talk

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Re: Breastfeeding Links & Talk

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    edited December 2014
    DS has started basically refusing to nurse on the left. He will latch on, suck for a few minutes, latch off and start screaming.

    I thought it was because of my letdown, Which can be fast, but now I express into a towel before he eats. It started only at night, so I thought it was because the right is my over achiever and that he just didn't want to work for the left.

    We just got over thrush. I don't feel any signs of it like before and he doesn't have a rash anymore or anything in his mouth.

    Today he nursed (finally!) on the left for 6 minutes. He let out a scream and then projectile vomited all over himself, me, and the recliner. Any thoughts? I feel so bad for him and I want him to eat.

    ETA: Never mind, I think we have thrush again. I woke up to feed him and my nipples are burning. The left hurts worse than the right. Ugh.
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    Re: sttn and supply -- it isn't as bad as @emerald27 makes it sound! I breastfed dd1 for 2 years, and around 10-11 months she started inconsistently sttn on her own (8pm-6am or so). I didn't get up to pump, and my supply always regulated within 3- 4 days of her sleeping a longer stretch. (We got a 6-7 hour stretch consistently around 7 months; I never sleep trained). I pumped enough at work for her thru 1 year and had enough milk for her supplemental feedings after age 1 that she remained interested, nursing about 3 times a day. (No, I wasn't making 25 ounces per day at that point - but young toddlers need less bc their calories start coming from food).
    Thank you! DS started sttn (6-7 hrs) at 4 1/2 months which was two weeks after I weaned him off the breast and 10-11 hrs by 6 months old. I was hoping there wasn't a direct link between sttn and formula so this makes me feel a lot better. 
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    @theresat858‌ I didn't mean to make it sound so bad. :\"> It's not a big deal when LO's sleep stretches gradually lengthen. That's normal and good.

    But when they go instantly from 3hr stretches to 8hr ones, that's not great (engirgement, plugged ducts, supply), so you'd want to dream feed at least.
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    Are the Medela bottles that come with the pumps somehow inaccurate in measurement? I had pumped what I believed to be 2 ounces in the bottle, but when I transferred it to a freezer bag (Lansinoh brand) it stopped at the 4 ounce marker. This was my first time freezing breastmilk so I was a little surprised and confused.
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    Are the Medela bottles that come with the pumps somehow inaccurate in measurement? I had pumped what I believed to be 2 ounces in the bottle, but when I transferred it to a freezer bag (Lansinoh brand) it stopped at the 4 ounce marker. This was my first time freezing breastmilk so I was a little surprised and confused.

    This happens with the ameda bags and bottles too. I always write the amount that was on the bottle.
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    rosalie12rosalie12 member
    edited December 2014
    We have been struggling lately, and I'm thinking it may have to do with a growth spurt? C has been extremely fussy for the last week or so, and wanting to eat at least every 2 hours during the evening hours. My concern is that she has been getting very fussy after being on one breast for awhile. She starts rooting and pulling off the breast and squawking, which eventually leads to crying/screaming. I have been trying to have her latch again on the same side but it doesn't help. So I now tried to burp her and then offered the other breast, which she takes. I'm concerned that there may be something wrong with my supply? I should mention that we are still using a shield. Any advice would be appreciated! I'm really concerned. Plus her general fussiness all day long is frustrating. Does this sound like a wonder week/growth spurt? TIA!

    ETA LO is 7w2d old.

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    What does the clicking sound while nursing indicate?
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    sabby2 said:

    What does the clicking sound while nursing indicate?

    It indicates air. It can be a bad latch or a tongue tie.
    This. It's likely a shallow latch. Try another position to see if the clicking stops.
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    rosalie12 said:

    We have been struggling lately, and I'm thinking it may have to do with a growth spurt? C has been extremely fussy for the last week or so, and wanting to eat at least every 2 hours during the evening hours. My concern is that she has been getting very fussy after being on one breast for awhile. She starts rooting and pulling off the breast and squawking, which eventually leads to crying/screaming. I have been trying to have her latch again on the same side but it doesn't help. So I now tried to burp her and then offered the other breast, which she takes. I'm concerned that there may be something wrong with my supply? I should mention that we are still using a shield. Any advice would be appreciated! I'm really concerned. Plus her general fussiness all day long is frustrating. Does this sound like a wonder week/growth spurt? TIA!

    ETA LO is 7w2d old.

    Once she unlatches from the first side, there's no reason not to offer the second side. You don't need to keep offering the same side. I switch LO twice or three times in one feeding sometimes. Just follow LO's lead. ;)

    Oh, I should add that this advice is great unless you're battling oversupply. Then you might want to try to nurse longer on the first side. In normal circumstances, you can switch as often as LO likes. :)
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    Dd is 6w3d. She usually never spits up after eating but today she was extremely fussy, crying if not sleeping or on the boob, and spit up 4times. This coupled with green poo yesterday and today is concerning to me. Am I overreacting to normal baby stuff?
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    cmac6186 said:

    Dd is 6w3d. She usually never spits up after eating but today she was extremely fussy, crying if not sleeping or on the boob, and spit up 4times. This coupled with green poo yesterday and today is concerning to me. Am I overreacting to normal baby stuff?

    Sounds like a growth spurt and normal baby behavior.

    Green poop is ok if not frothy, and is common when they're nursing like that. The frequent nursung is meant to increase your supply since she's growing. Spitting up would be caused by the gas she takes in because she's so fussy. And the fussiness would be caused by wanting more milk and needing more sleep because of growth. It's all connected and should settle down within a few days. If not, then it could be something else. Keep an eye out for a fever or something, as that would indicate that she has a bug.
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    Emerald27 said:

    sabby2 said:

    What does the clicking sound while nursing indicate?

    It indicates air. It can be a bad latch or a tongue tie.
    This. It's likely a shallow latch. Try another position to see if the clicking stops.
    I thought it was swallowing! Oh man. Then how can you tell they're swallowing? I was told to listen for the click sound.
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    keelyd said:

    Emerald27 said:

    sabby2 said:

    What does the clicking sound while nursing indicate?

    It indicates air. It can be a bad latch or a tongue tie.
    This. It's likely a shallow latch. Try another position to see if the clicking stops.
    I thought it was swallowing! Oh man. Then how can you tell they're swallowing? I was told to listen for the click sound.
    Swallowing is more of a "cuh" sound.
    This exactly! The "click" sounds like the latch seal being broken and air being sucked in. The "cuh" sounds more like gulping. Try not to worry. If breastfeeding is comfy and your LO is gaining appropriately, everything is fine. :)
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    Thanks for the help @emerald27 & @theresat858‌! I just fed her and when she started flailing around on one side, I switched her to the other and she calmed right down and ate until she fell asleep. I feel so much better, and maybe this is why she has been eating more often. Maybe she hasn't been getting enough to eat with one feeding, because I would sometimes just get frustrated and give up. I know that's stupid but I didn't think of switching to the other side! Thanks for the support. :)

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    @Emerald27‌ What are your thoughts on grapefruit seed extract tablets/capsules for thrush?

    I've also added coconut oil to my nipple pain treatment plan. Do I need to wash them before nursing?
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    apk4 said:

    @Emerald27‌ What are your thoughts on grapefruit seed extract tablets/capsules for thrush?

    I've also added coconut oil to my nipple pain treatment plan. Do I need to wash them before nursing?

    I would ask your provider before beginning any supplement for eliminating thrush.

    That said, GSE is commonly used to fight thrush, and can be very helpful. Are you thinking of taking it orally or applying it to your nipples? Looks like orally, since you mention capsules. Make sure the active ingredient in your GSE supplement is citricidal.

    Do you have a scrip for APNO? That would be preferable to coconut oil. I would gently wash your nipples prior to nursing if there is oil on them, so that baby doesn't ingest it. Applying it after baby nurses can help prevent the need to wash them.

    Have you considered taking probiotics?
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    edited December 2014
    Emerald27 said:
    @Emerald27‌ What are your thoughts on grapefruit seed extract tablets/capsules for thrush? I've also added coconut oil to my nipple pain treatment plan. Do I need to wash them before nursing?
    I would ask your provider before beginning any supplement for eliminating thrush. That said, GSE is commonly used to fight thrush, and can be very helpful. Are you thinking of taking it orally or applying it to your nipples? Looks like orally, since you mention capsules. Make sure the active ingredient in your GSE supplement is citricidal. Do you have a scrip for APNO? That would be preferable to coconut oil. I would gently wash your nipples prior to nursing if there is oil on them, so that baby doesn't ingest it. Applying it after baby nurses can help prevent the need to wash them. Have you considered taking probiotics?

    Thank you. I take a probiotic already, although admittedly I haven't researched the different kinds. The one I've been taking is a CVS brand women's health probiotic. I see my OB on Thursday, so I will consult with her on any other steps. 

     I don't have a scrip for APNO. The pedi gave us Nystatin last time we had it, and advised me to use it again if it came back.

     I feel like I leak so much that I'm going to have a hard time keeping it from coming back. I change pads frequently if I'm wearing a tank or bra, and am mostly topless during the day. I don't know how I'm going to make it work when I go back to work and have to look professional.
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    AmyG* said:
    apk4 said:
    @Emerald27‌ What are your thoughts on grapefruit seed extract tablets/capsules for thrush? I've also added coconut oil to my nipple pain treatment plan. Do I need to wash them before nursing?


    It depends on what you are already using for thrush.  If you are already on overload, adding something else isn't a good idea.  too may things and nips go from thrush to possibly all dried out or an interaction between too many ingredients.

    Are you on nystatin or diflucan or thrush? Are you sterilizing everything that touches baby's mouth, your nips or your breastmilk? airing things out and sunshine? changin bras and nursing pads if they get wet. often you need to stop using regular nipple creme for a while because it may trap too much moisture which yeast loves. lower your sugar intake for a while can also help.

    diluted grapefruit seed extract is used by many with great success.  diluted vinegar and or vinegar in rinse water of your bras.

    genetian violet is also a commonly used old home remedy but it turns everything purple

    I really don't like the love for coconut oil.  It's probably ok, but it's a food product and there is some concern that intro of a possibly allergenic food product at such an early age could be an issue--it's considered a nut on the allergy scale, even though coconut it not really a nut.  So if no history of family allergy issues, you are probably fine and no reason to wash off before feeding.  if you have family allergies to anything in the nut families, I'd probably avoid it.


    We had thrush two weeks ago and were on nystatin. I wash and sterilize anything that my breast milk and/or nipples touch. (Which is a lot, I feel like I'm always leaking) 

    My nipples are bright red again and burn throughout the day. Our pedi told me to use the nystatin again if it came back, so I have been. I see my OB on Thursday. I don't see any signs of thrush on DS yet. Last time he had a diaper rash and some spots on his tongue. 

     I'm finally getting the hang of breast feeding and I'm afraid thrush will keep occurring and the pain will make me give up. 

     I'm also going to a LLL meeting for the first time in Wednesday. I'm hoping I can find some local support as well.
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    It's been about a week of green poop with a few exceptions. She just turned seven weeks and I think we have reached the tail end of the growth spurt. She doesn't seem upset or unhappy. Keep ignoring the green poop or get concerned?
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    vrj0522vrj0522 member
    edited December 2014
    Last weekend I pumped quite a bit to replace feedings and it seemed like every time I was pumping more when replacing a feeding. What could be the reason for this? Breasts getting used to pumping, increase in supply, or something else? 
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    Emerald27 said:

    Cantisa said:

    Should you ever limit baby at breast for spitting up a lot after spending 1 hr with multiple let downs for multiple feedings.

    So LO is nursing for an hour at a time and spitting up a lot? Both of those things are normal (nursing a long time is normal, especially when baby is growing or hitting a milestone. Spitting up a lot is normal, as long as baby is not crying when she spits up). It may help to pause and burp baby a bit more often when she's nursing so long. But don't burp her too vigorously, because that often causes spitting up! Rub or pat her back very gently to get those burps, and just the burps, out. :)

    I would not limit baby's time at the breast when she's actively nursing. She knows what she needs right now to grow. Sounds like a little growth spurt to me!
    ------------

    What does it mean if she cries when she spits up? Sometimes she cries if she is on the boob and spits up.

    We are still having forcefulness issues... I just attributed it to choking/discomfort due to that...
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    @MrsSarahRenee‌ How old is your LO? Mine started that this week and will be 6 weeks on Thursday. I think I read somewhere on here that the gastrointestinal system changes around then. I attributed it to that, but have been keeping an eye on it.

    We also have forcefulness issues, though. I didn't even think about putting those two together.
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    apk4 said:

    @MrsSarahRenee‌ How old is your LO? Mine started that this week and will be 6 weeks on Thursday. I think I read somewhere on here that the gastrointestinal system changes around then. I attributed it to that, but have been keeping an eye on it.

    We also have forcefulness issues, though. I didn't even think about putting those two together.

    She will be six weeks on Friday! So maybe! She has been doing the crying thing for probably almost a week.
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    For those of you that "dream feed", do you burp LO after?... Feeling that burping would wake baby up, defeating the purpose but I'm wondering if it will make LO gassy if I don't?
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    JessAnnJJessAnnJ member
    edited December 2014
    @cantisa I have so much because I started off mostly pumping. I've read a lot of people give the advice not to worry about a stash because essentially you just need enough for the first day, but personally I would start pumping regularly now if you are going back this month. I EPed with DD1 so that's differnent, but I also know BFing moms that had trouble keeping up when they went back to work. Generally there is a bit of waste because care providers aren't used to LO and my over feed or not completely finish a bottle. Plus it can be hard in the beginning depending on your job to get into a routine of pumping. I think it's best to have that freezer stash as a backup. Having to go back to work is hard enough the last thing anyone needs is to worry that you won't have enough BM to feed LO while you are at work. I suppose if you have a large oversupply this may not be as much of a concern. I pump after the last feed before I go to bed (I pass her off to DH to burp and put in bed while I pump) and after the first feed when I get up.

    ETA - I don't think it's necessary to pump twice like I do but I would pump at least once. My supply dipped at six months and I ended up having to supplement which is why I'm pumping twice so I have a really good buffer.

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    Emerald27Emerald27 member
    edited December 2014
    Cantisa said:

    How much of a freezer stash should I have for going back to work? I go back the 29th and I don't have a lot at all in the freezer. Reading that other women have 400 ounces makes me nervous--I might have 40! I just like nursing so much better than pumping-I've been kind of lazy with pumping for the freezer during my leave so far. :(

    Different folks will tell you different things. All you *need*, and what I recommend, is 2 days worth. One ounce per hour you're going to be away from LO (so that more of her daily intake comes directly from the breast, helping your supply and making your pumping efforts easier), so if your work day and commute are 10 hours, I would plan to have 20oz in the freezer.

    You'll be able to pump what you need for the next day when you're at work, but having an extra day's worth will take some of the pressure off your first pumping day away.

    Some people, like @theresat858‌ ;), suggest putting more in the freezer. But I'm of the opinion that pumping sucks, and that you should enjoy every minute of your maternity leave possible. So as you can see, there really is no right or wrong amount to stash, as long as you have at least 1-2 days in the freezer. It's personal preference.

    @JessAnnJ makes some excellent points. If those concerns are important to you, an extra few days' worth in the freezer may be advantageous to you. :)
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    starla487 said:

    Someone talk me off the ledge. I know evening supply is lower and when LOs cluster feed at night, it's a sign to help your supply increase. So when will I see this increase?! I will sit and nurse DD for two hours and barely get a let down. She pops off and cries because she's still hungry. And this will continue for hours. I feel like if I just got a break for a half hour, I might have a chance to "refill" but when she sits and screams at us both, our solution is just to put her on the boob again and let her suck. (More accurately, a nipple shield.) Momma needs a break...

    How long has this been going on? You might be nearing the end of it. FX!

    Evening is a fussy time for babies no matter how they're fed, but cluster feeding is either a growth spurt or just normal low prolactin and more work to get the milk she needs. If you need a break, nurse LO for some time and once when she unlatches, burp her and then try other methods of soothing for a bit (or have DH try for a bit to give you a break). Nothing may work but the boob, but 10 minutes of trying other things may recharge you enough to be ready for more cluster feeding.

    DH can take LO for a short walk outside in the carrier, or hold her and walk in the "colic hold" position, or go for a short drive if she likes her carseat. Or DH can give her a bath or something. She may cry, but she is being held and loved (which lowers her stress levels even if she's crying), and you're getting a short break to breathe, get a glass of water or a snack, and rest.

    Here are some more ideas:
    https://www.llli.org/docs/0000000000000001WAB/WAB_Tear_sheet_Toolkit/09_fussybabyideas.pdf
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    Why do women who EP get more milk output when they pump than a BF'ing mom, even when replacing a feeding? 
    Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
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    The LC I saw on Tuesday recommended that I leave 15oz per day when I go back to work. I'll be feeding LO before I leave, then I'll be gone 6am-3pm. Does that seem like a lot?

    LO is staying with my MIL and although I've tried to teach her about paced feeding, the couple of bottles she's given her have only taken 10 minutes, so I'm quite concerned about over feeding and worried that I won't have enough time during the work day to pump 15oz (I'm a teacher).
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    Katedann said:

    The LC I saw on Tuesday recommended that I leave 15oz per day when I go back to work. I'll be feeding LO before I leave, then I'll be gone 6am-3pm. Does that seem like a lot?

    LO is staying with my MIL and although I've tried to teach her about paced feeding, the couple of bottles she's given her have only taken 10 minutes, so I'm quite concerned about over feeding and worried that I won't have enough time during the work day to pump 15oz (I'm a teacher).

    15oz does seem like a lot to leave for 9 hours. I would leave 2oz bottles, and send 10oz. Have MIL feed 1-2oz at a time, and only get more if LO seems unsatisfied. 2oz every 2 hours should be perfect, but also letting LO feed on demand will help ensure happy growing baby.

    Nurse immediately before you leave LO, and ask that your MIL try not to offer a bottle for the first hour or two (distract and soothe in other ways and offer the bottle as a last resort or if she seems truly hungry).

    Also let your MIL know that you would like to nurse immediately when you return, so to please not offer a bottle for the last hour or so of the day, unless LO is really hungry and can't be soothed by other means.

    That means that those oz should stretch further, since baby won't be needing bottles at the start and end of the day. More daily intake will come from the breast than the bottle, which will help your supply, and less pressure will be on you to pump a lot of milk, because you'll only need 10oz (if that) per day.

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    vrj0522 said:

    Why do women who EP get more milk output when they pump than a BF'ing mom, even when replacing a feeding? 

    I EPed with DD1 and started out that way with DD2. I was able to switch to BFing with DD2 and I noticed I've been slowly pumping less after feedings even though I am pumping the same number of times at the same time each day. Before my breasts emptied every time I pumped and now with BFing she doesn't eat from both sides at every feeding and she doesn't always completely empty my breast. I think I'm pumping less because my body has adjusted more to producing milk based on how much she eats. I don't get full as quickly. Also, for people that haven't pumped a lot it could take time for your body to get used to it. I am letting down differently with the pump now that I'm mostly BFing.

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    AmyG* said:
    Why do women who EP get more milk output when they pump than a BF'ing mom, even when replacing a feeding? 
    Most epers do not. The ones you may hear about are the ones who are successful at it not the ones who struggle for every oz and give up eping early on. I'd estimate that of the moms I know about 10% of those who go into pumping only actually pump as many months as they wanted to without issue. Now if you are comparing missing a feeding and pumping instead of nursing and not getting as much milk as an eper would, pumping is a learned skill, many moms don't let down for a pump well and have to learn to relax. Epers also tend to have lots of opportunities to play with pump settings and ine if day for pumping and all the variables that may make them more successful than the occasional pumper does.
    This is good to know. I was wondering if I should be EP'ing instead but don't want the hassle of the pump and bottles. It's hard enough to get in one pumping session a day. 
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    edited December 2014
    Do you guys usually pump one breast at a time, or both per session?

    ETA: If I do pump on only one breast and let him nurse on the other, does it matter which breast he starts on for the next nursing session?
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    I pump both every time. And have him start on the side he didn't nurse on last. I haven't been able to empty with the pump.
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    SaraML13 said:

    DS is 9 weeks old and I'll be going back to work when he is 13 weeks. I've been EBF and feeding him on demand. That's been working out fine so far, and he's gained 4 lbs since birth so I'm not worried about my supply. But I am worried about daycare.

    DS is a fairly high strung baby who likes a lot of attention and cries a lot. Waking up from a nap, being left too long (more than 10-15 minutes) in his swing or playmat, being overstimulated, having a wet outfit changed, being tired, being bored all result in crying and usually be nursing him. He always nurses eagerly when I offer. When DH gives him a pumped bottle using paced feeding, he will eat the whole bottle regardless of size (2-3 oz) and how long ago he last nursed.

    I worry that he is so used to being comforted by nursing that he will either be crying a ton at daycare or they will overfeed him and burn through my stash. He'll typically be in daycare from 7:30-5:00. Should I be trying harder to console him without nursing to try to prepare him for daycare, or is this something that he will adjust to once he starts there? He'll take a pacifier when he is fussy, but not once he is really crying.

    You worded my concerns exactly. DD is heading to daycare on the 15th she'll be 8w3d. Interested in seeing BTDT moms responses
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    I go for my 2 hr glucose test on Friday & I'm concerned about the fasting requirements. I was told that I have to fast for 8 hrs & then the test is an additional 2 hrs which means NO food or water for at least 10 hrs! I did call the dr to confirm no water also! I'm very concerned because I EBF the twins. Will this possibly affect my supply? I'm actually considering drinking water anyways, minimal but still some intake. Any suggestions or thoughts on this? Am I over thinking it that 10 hrs+ without water & food could affect supply?
    Me: 37, DH: 42 Married March 22, 2003 TTC since early 2006, Fertility treatments since 02/2013 First Pregnancy with Twins EDD 10.24.2014
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    AmyG* said:


    ANGnJON said:

    I go for my 2 hr glucose test on Friday & I'm concerned about the fasting requirements. I was told that I have to fast for 8 hrs & then the test is an additional 2 hrs which means NO food or water for at least 10 hrs! I did call the dr to confirm no water also! I'm very concerned because I EBF the twins. Will this possibly affect my supply? I'm actually considering drinking water anyways, minimal but still some intake. Any suggestions or thoughts on this? Am I over thinking it that 10 hrs+ without water & food could affect supply?

    I've never heard of fastig glucose test where you can't have some water.  Just nothing else. Eat a reasonably good meal right before the 8 hour limit.  It will be sort of like going all night without eating or drinking and then going out for breakfast at a slow diner. lol!  You should be able to drink a bit of water.  Call the place you are having the test done rather than just your dr.


    Thank you! I will just limit my water & eat nothing during the fasting time. I did call the lab & they told me they can't advise me & to call the doctor to confirm.
    So just to confirm I shouldn't have any supply issues?
    Me: 37, DH: 42 Married March 22, 2003 TTC since early 2006, Fertility treatments since 02/2013 First Pregnancy with Twins EDD 10.24.2014
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