More Proposed Board Changes & Group Discussion

KristoKekerooni · August 2018

lulu1180 said:

jhems776 said:

*snip*
5. So, after you have spent time on this board you make friends and just because you got your BFP doesn’t mean you want to stop talking to them. I am for letting people linger a bit as long as no pregnancy talk.

I get wanting to keep in touch with people once they get their BFPs; I've become IRL friends with some people I first met on this board and I love being able to know what's going on with them and chatting with them from time to time. However, the board is Trying To Get Pregnant and for me, at least, to see that person hanging around here commenting everywhere after getting a BFP until they move on to a BMB would be upsetting for me as it would be a reminder of my inability to get pregnant.

TW lots of loss mentions

As someone that has been here for too long, Yes. I've made friends here that I will be friends with forever. When I got my last couple of BFPs, I was TERRIFIED of moving to my BMB. I didn't want to leave here. I wasn't comfortable with getting to know people on the BMB when I was certain it would only be temporary. So I lurked here. I did comment periodically, but that was only if someone asked a very specific question that I had first hand knowledge of. I didn't comment just to comment. I didn't want to be a reminder to anyone that they were still here. Because even though I have been here forever, at the end of the day, I was pregnant and they were not. Period.

lulu1180 · August 2018

@jhems776 Well, I don't mind an occasional lurking comment if it's something that will add value to the conversation (one of our long ago grads just commented in WTO today) or help answer someone's difficult question. But to have them just kind of hanging out right after they get their BFP would be a hard no for me.

zamoraspin · August 2018

@jhems776 Just as to your comment on 5 - there is a Chit Chat board that some TTGP grads and not yet grads claimed to try to to stay in touch with folks to thee extent people want to. https://forums.thebump.com/categories/chit-chat

While I like it very much when folks who have graduated impart their wisdom here, I'd rather not encourage people who have gotten their BFP to just hang out and continue participating. I would encourage PM'ing or Chit Chat to keep up with friends.

coco2787 · August 2018

TW for loss and mention of LC

The things that trigger me from my losses aren't other people talking about loss (I find that therapeutic), but things that I can't be shielded from like newborn babies IRL or my kid making it a point to tell his new teacher he doesn't have any brothers or sisters. The dailies ended up being triggering for me because it was a reminder of the naive person I was lucky enough to be at one time, and that hurts. It was triggering going into the TFAS thread and seeing people sad about not having 2 under 2 when best case scenario I'll have kids 6 years apart. My point in saying all that is that we can never know what sorts of things are going to be upsetting to others, but if we have people on the board saying please use a TW when mentioning A, B, or C, then I think we should do our best to honor that.

Everyone here has a different story and history. There isn't going to be a general consensus that pleases everyone. We're all adults and should be capable of empathy and seeing things from other people's perspectives. I think asking yourself whether or not the mention of a loss or living child or past pregnancy is pertinent to the conversation in any thread (dedicated threads being the exception of course) is probably a good rule of thumb to follow.

lulu1180 · August 2018

@coco2787 Perfectly said! And I'm so sorry that you've found triggers in unexpected places here. Hugs, girl

KristoKekerooni · August 2018

I honestly thought your post was going to go a different way at first, @coco2787 .. and I am happy that I was wrong. You are so right. Not everyone has the same triggers, same hurts, same anything. But if you can avoid causing pain by simply being mindful, why the eff wouldn't you?

Kinda along the same lines as how I would never, ever tell someone they should be thankful because they at least have one kid. No effing way. That's wrong, and mean, and dismissive. But it also doesn't mean I want to hear about how Adam just learned to tie his shoes or Jenny lost her first tooth.

At the end of the day, I'm sorry you are struggling, and I am sorry there isn't much of a safe space for you, coco. I find the WTO/TWW threads similarly hurtful, which is why I don't post there either. I sincerely hope that you can find a niche to be completely comfortable in, and please know my inbox is always open if you want pics of cute dogs and memes instead of babies.

holly321 · August 2018

@coco2787 .Tw....

I have wondering if there was any point in a benched/TTCAL/secondary IF/tfas thread. I feel like there are a couple of us, but maybe there isn't enough to discuss.

As for what I said yesterday about TW's, I hope it didn't come off as dismissive, I don't mind doing it and I think I generally don't bring stuff up, but sometimes it feels silly TW when someone asks "has this happened to you" questions and wanting to mention past experiences (with LC or loss)

I generally just don't bring stuff up even if pertinent, because I don't want to offend anyone.

suzycupcake · August 2018

lulu1180 said:

6A. If anyone has any issue that they want to bring up to those of us that have been here forever, please bring it up, I promise we won't flame you if you're just trying to get some information and figure out why we are the way that we are. I know that @suzycupcake seems like a good choice and seems more approachable than some of us (#bitterinfertilehag) because of the time that she's been TTC. However, she's really only been a regular on this board for a little over 6 months and because of that, doesn't truly understand what some of us are going through because she hasn't spent the time on here that we have and gone through the many iterations of threads like this and dealt with the completely ridiculous drive-bys that have gotten our friends banned because they were defending themselves (and us) from some pretty shitty things that were said. I know that suzy joined TB last July, but she participated only here and there from August 2017 until the end of January, when she started posting regularly. So her perspective on IF may help some but her perspective on the board doesn't match some of the rest of us.
6B & C. I feel like these should be common sense. If you look at the "Welcome New Members" thread as well as the "Tell A Newbie Anything" thread, they are both older than the Newbie Guide. When I joined, both the old and the current newbie threads were around. I read them both (and the welcome new members thread) and they both had different information on where/how to intro. I used common sense and also lurked. That told me that 1) I should follow the instructions in the newest of all of those threads and; 2) Noticed that there's a weekly thread created for newbie intros while lurking and just did my intro there (which was the appropriate place). I think that the people who join this board are usually fairly intelligent and if they use common sense, they should be ok. But more important, if they follow the number 1 rule and LURK, LURK, LURK then there shouldn't be a problem figuring these things out.

@lulu1180 I have only gotten through the first page of responses to what is supposed to be a group discussion and I haven't been able to get to the second page yet because I'm so hurt by your response and ad hominem here.

I actually feel heat rising in my chest and an ache inside of my body for your complete lack of sensitivity. I commend you so much for being such an organized person and respect you for your love of this community, wanting to make it better, and more fun for all of us. I have never once said anything rude, hurtful, disrespectful, or insensitive to you.

The reason it might've looked like I wasn't a regular during those months last year is because my father was dying of lung cancer. He was diagnosed on my birthday and he made me healthcare POA and estate POA because I am the brains in the family. I was flying back and forth between two states, while in an MS flare!, doing that and taking care of him physically (helping him go to the bathroom, wiping his butt, cleaning up the carpets when he would sit up and urinate everywhere because he didn't know where he was, etc.--and happily because I love my Daddy so much!). The anticipatory grief that I, my mom, and my sister experienced throughout those months was horrendous, just I can't even begin to describe what that was like. It is such a complex ball of emotions that I'm not even sure it will ever be unraveled. Between trying to get a phd in oncology (not really but that's what it felt like) to try to save him next to a ticking clock and watching him waste away in bed.... ugh

During that time, I was still trying to get pregnant and doing treatment when I could. There were times when I was medically benched from large, multiple, and hemorrhagic cysts, or could not try because I was out of state taking care of my father where all I could do was get myself to lurk because I was so exhausted all of the time. And then when I did start joining in and posting again, I got pregnant for the first time in my entire life, after 6 long years of trying. I posted in the grad thread and so many regulars were excited for me and congratulated me. Obviously, they didn't see me the way that you do. They didn't brush me to the side, hurt me, and invalidate me as a person the way that you just did. And then I also experienced loss of the baby right after that, experiencing immense physical pain as it was passed.

So saying that I don't truly understand what you guys are going through and that I haven't experienced the ridiculous drive bys is out of line. Saying that my perspective on IF may help 'some' is way WAY out of line. You seem to enjoy singling me out when you've made no comment to any person here who is far newer than me about how their perspective isn't trustworthy because they haven't participated as much as you have, as you did to me.

Maybe you should ask yourself what your problem is with me. I actually sent you a private message last night to apologize for not being democratic with my addition to the newbie guide and that I should have created a new thread to bring it to a discussion. I actually felt hurt for you for the news that you posted in the IF thread and offered comfort because I thought damn, not only is she going through that right now but now she is having to deal with this newbie guide postings. I should go apologize to her. I posted on the board to tell you that you got a pm and you never even responded to it. That seems so strange to me. You and I have hardly had any reaction since I've been here, not because I wasn't participating, but because you seem to never love tit my comments, have only recently began tagging my name but only when everyone else was and you saw that I was going to be a regular member of the IF thread. You have never had any interest in wanting to get to know me.

And you know what? That's okay with me. There are many on here where that has been the case and I've been okay with the fact that not everyone is going to like me, but what you did here today is way beyond that. You have single handedly made such a toxic statement about me, that I actually feel physical pain over your complete lack of consideration for what I've been through. I'm not sure where to go from here.

lulu1180 · August 2018

@suzycupcake First of all, I did respond to your PM but I responded to this first. Second, what I stated was fact. I'm very sorry for what you went through with your father, but the fact is that you have been regularly participating on this board for about 6 months. If you were hurt by my statement then I'm sorry but it was not intended that way. I absolutely know that you have been hurt because of your experiences of TTC and some other life experiences and never said otherwise. What I said was that the 6 months that you've been regularly contributing to this board gives you a different perspective than those of use that have been here nearly day in and day out for 2 years or more. We've seen a lot more go down on these boards, we've dealt with a lot more drive-bys. Our longer experience on this board gives us a different perspective than anyone that has been on this board for the amount of time that you have. The reason that I singled you out was because you mentioned that others have PM'd you and was comparing the shorter time you have spent here vs the time some of us others have been here as that will absolutely make a difference.

suzycupcake · August 2018

Edit because lulu is right. She did respond to me. I just didn't see it in all of the pms I got this morning, but I just can't right now you guys. I'll come back to ttgp next week.

wishiwaspreggo · August 2018

@lulu1180 - I was an active reg from 2013-2015 when the boards were much different. Many of my friends got banned during the mass exodus and changes with mods. We even formed our own group on a different forum but that eventually died off.

Should I have more of a say in what happens on these boards since I have more seniority than you technically? There are a lot of things I'd change if I could but I follow the rules because I enjoy this community. I don't have any friends who are actively TTC and God knows I don't know anyone personally who is going through IVF so coming here has been very helpful.

I detest non-apologies like "I'm sorry you're hurt by what I said." You should know that was hurtful - so why even say it in the first place while we're talking about trigger warnings and being respectful to others in the community? @suzycupcake has always been so sweet and supportive of everyone. It kills me when people single her out when she's doing her best to be kind and helpful. The call-outs here truly verge on bullying, in my opinion.

holly321 · August 2018

@wishiwaspreggo, off topic, did you have a different name then?

sheknows6 · August 2018

*epic lurker*

I'm also a former regular contributor of TTGP. Board changes are inevitable, and these conversations happen cyclically, like clockwork, every single year. They also almost always cause strife on the boards, because it usually almost always gets brought up by a newbie to the board, and who may possibly be a little overzealous, and dare I say bossy, in my opinion.

If you fail to read a room, come in and make changes to board posts without consulting anyone first, what do you really expect will happen? That you won't suffer the consequences of some ruffled feathers? That's entirely utopian and unrealistic at best.

@wishiwaspreggo you are entitled to your opinion, it doesn't make @lulu1180 disrespectful, a bully, or anything else you've insinuated. It's wonderful that you like @suzycupake, but as someone who has continued to lurk here after my own personal circumstance drove me away, in my experience/opinion, she comes off like a self-proposed board leader, and I can 1000000% understand why someone could take issue with this. Maybe, if new contributors want to be well-received in TTGP and other boards, they should take the time to LURK and READ THE ROOM instead of coming in gung-ho and disregarding the vets, who until this point have offered gentle constructive criticism and guidance that has been entirely ignored.

I have nothing else to contribute to this conversation, but I hope everyone here can work this out amicably, without it devolving into a drama-fest.

meatballs37 · August 2018

I think we can all agree that reading the room on ttgp is generally the best way to operate. But over the years I do feel like the rules have gotten a little over the top (I am a long time lurker. I used to post way back in the day on the knot. I even got flamed a few times on the etiquette board. Whew!). I’m not even talking about the official rules pinned to the top of this board. I’m talking about the unwritten ones everyone keeps in the back of their mind.

Like who is a reg. Who is not. When does one become one? When is it acceptable to post a thread like this. Clearly six months isn’t an acceptable time frame to some. But when is it? Or when will someone be accepted into the grad thread without being flamed? These are all reasons why I haven’t participated as much this year. No one has been unkind to me personally(in fact everyone here has been wonderful and understanding to my journey), but I do worry a lot about treading lightly as to not offend someone.

We all have a lot on our plates. Some more than others. But I think we are losing sight of why we are all here.

Maybe you don’t jive without someone. I totally get that. But IMO the unofficial rules are what keeps people from participating.

And right now this may be the only place some people have. Myself included.

zamoraspin · August 2018

@meatballs37 It's really hard to create rules that are both specific enough and flexible enough. I was listening to a podcast about Facebook's rules for what they will and will not remove in terms of content and it started as one page, and now is 50 pages long and growing. So on the one hand I agree that your criticism is fair -- if people feel extremely chilled because they don't understand the rules, that is not good. On the other I'm not sure if we can ever be perfect in our expression.

@suzycupcake To be direct about it, you changed the rules in the TTA/Benched thread in a way that hurt people who needed support and you tried to revise the Newbie Guide yourself without input from the board (while also making a rule that changes need to be discussed?). Those were not cool things. Honestly I think @lulu1180 was trying not to call you out directly on it and respect you.

But then you created this thread as well, which maybe should have been the starting place as opposed to three steps down the line, and yet you are still dictating rules based on what you (and apparently all these people who are pm'ing you) think the rules should be. I think an open dialogue, brought by anyone, is fine. But, yeah, if you want my honest opinion, I don't think you went about any of it in a way that was totally on the level. And I'm familiar with your history and I'm very sorry for what you have been through, but it feels like you are now, after putting yourself in the direct spotlight and electing yourself Mayor of TTGP, playing the victim when you don't like that not everyone agrees with all your points.

Legit question: as a board do we want to discuss changing the Newbie Guide? If so, I think we need to break it down into more chunks, as annoying and time consuming as that would be.

meatballs37 · August 2018

@zamora_spin nodding in agreement. No one can ever be perfect in their expression. After your post I can definitely see both sides.

I think changing the newbie thread would be time consuming with so many opinions.

suzycupcake · August 2018

Hi @zamora_spin

I was already called out about what I did by one of lulu's friends in the Benched thread (the woman did it very respectfully and kindly), and by multiple people in pms (very respectfully and kindly). I already apologized for it. I apologized for changing the language of the benched thread and I apologized for being less than democratic by posting on the newbie thread, in public and before this thread was ever posted. Starting a new thread to discuss board stuff was the suggestion discussed so that's what I did, just like lulu does to have things discussed.

Yes I agree with you, this thread should've been the starting point, but that's not what happened. I in no way shape or form want to be mayor of ttgp and I've already said as much to lulu in my apologies (in multiple places) BEFORE she made the comments that she did today. Calling her out for her poor behavior is not the same thing as playing the victim. It's called standing up for myself and anyone else would've done the same thing had she posted about them what she posted about me. It has nothing to do with being upset that other people disagree with me. I have never been upset that she disagrees with me.

As it stands though, her comments weren't about that. Her comments were about whether or not I have a right to bring up topics for discussion as a group based on my participation here. Her comments minimized what I've been through saying that I could only be of some help when it comes to IF and not as much help as other IFers. Then after I expressed hurt and upset about it, I received some bullshit apology.

lulu1180 said:

The reason that I singled you out was because you mentioned that others have PM'd you and was comparing the shorter time you have spent here vs the time some of us others have been here as that will absolutely make a difference.

That's a lie. The reason she singled me out is because she doesn't care for me, never has, I've always rubbed her the wrong way, and I'm not her 'cup of tea' as she called it. She has already said this to me.

All of her comments on this thread come from a place of dislike of me. Instead of discussing the topics at hand, she chose to take her dislike of me and attack me for it. It's one thing to dislike/disagree with me and it's one thing to disrespect me by attacking me in public, and pretending like it's coming from a position of intelligent/rational thinking. The latter I'm not cool with.

And @sheknows6 How is my creating a post to discuss board changes any different from lulu doing it? Why am I the one seen as a self proposed board leader? That doesn't make any logical sense. I don't know you and don't want any trouble with you. Edit to add: P.S. Your spoiler... congratulations!

suzycupcake · August 2018

Gies, I really just want this to be over so people can go back to discussing the OP. If lulu wants to take the lead in posting polls or whatever, I'm totally fine with that. I've always been fine with that. I posted this to fix my mistake of not being democratic by adding current board culture to the newbie guide. Yes, I did it to try and help other people out, but I know now that it shouldn't have gone down that way. This thread was a means to fix that mistake. I really have nothing else to say about that.

lulu1180 · August 2018

@suzycupcake Despite what you or others may think, my OP was based on my thoughts and opinions from the two years I've spent on this board; they have nothing to do with how I may or may not feel about you or others. And regardless what you think, my apology was sincere. My post was not intended to be hurtful and I am sorry that you were hurt by it. My post wasn't saying that I didn't think you should have started this thread; I was the one who encouraged you to do so! My post was simply stating that the amount of time that you have spent on this board will reflect your opinions and perspective and therefore it makes it more difficult for you to speak for all of us in the IF thread as many of us have been there 2+ years. We have seen a lot more shit in that time.

And don't ever accuse me of using some hidden agenda or that I disrespected you by attacking you in public "and pretending like it's coming from a position of intelligent/rational thinking." My post was truly no more than stating what I think about the changes you suggested from my position, using rational thinking.

suzycupcake · August 2018

Okay @lulu1180I accept your apology. I did finally read the rest of your pm after being stung by your initial post here to me as well as the first part of your pm. It was very hard to see the rest because of that, but now I have. I don't want to be outcasted in the IF thread. That's the only place that I have felt comfortable in really with what I've been going through.

I just don't agree with the rest of your points about whether or not I have the right to bring up topics for discussion. You say that it isn't what you're saying. Yes you encouraged me to do so, but it wasn't okay to then use what you used as a means to discredit the discussion that you encouraged me to bring up. That literally is what makes it about whether or not I have the right to bring up topics for discussion.

We are just gonna go in circles here about the IF/participation part.

One of your arguments was that I wouldn't be able to speak for IF ladies when people come to me to ask advice. My argument is that since I have experienced IF for 6 years, then I can absolutely explain to someone who doesn't experience it, what it is like. I can absolutely explain that what seems like meanness is coming from a place of hurt from not getting a baby for so long. It has nothing to do with who has been on the boards the longest.

Your argument was that I have only been actively participating for 6 months. My argument was that I had very valid reasons (reasons beyond my control) for that and it didn't mean I wasn't around lurking and love titting posts during that time. It doesn't mean I didn't see the drive bys and hurtful/insensitive comments, nor does it mean that I wasn't also stung by them.

I've said this before. I agree that the way I went about this whole thing shouldn't have happened. I will claim ignorance as my excuse and say that I'm truly sorry for that. However, what I won't do is concede on the fact that all I was trying to do was to help other people, not become the leader of this board. I don't want to be the leader here. I don't.  And if wanting to be bffs with everyone on here, reaching out to offer support, etc. rubs people the wrong way, I will take it because I really do love people, and I'm not gonna apologize for that.

So we can sit here and keep going or we can stop with this nonsense because honestly, I don't have the energy anymore to give to this. I don't suppose that you do either. You can respond to this or not. That is your choice. I will read it, but I won't be talking about it again.

tamalahoops · August 2018

Everything that I would want to say has been said by people on this thread that I respect and love. Truly could not have said it better myself.

I do want to say that I would be happy to operate a weekly or monthly limbo thread for those not trying. I'm not technically trying anymore and am at a place where I'm happy to help newbies or botb friends that want to hang out here with us. And it might do well to have an OG hang in that thread.

thegirlwhowaited_ · August 2018

I agree with some of the PPs that the OP was ALOT of information to digest. I think it would be the best course of action to break up @suzycupcake original suggestions into polls to first see if the majority of the board would like any changes to those threads/topics/policies, and then people can comment what suggested changes would be, then another poll to decide on what changes.

Otherwise I feel we will end up going in circles.

beachbunnyxo123 · August 2018

Alyeena said:

@zamora_spin Adding two letter before my post is no trouble at all and I do not have a problem with that if it will spare someone even a bit of pain, so long as I can speak about my child or miscarriage freely after that, with no restrictions like "only if absolutely pertinent to the conversation".

Also, I would never suggest people here move to the IF boards, I have been there and we have a very different way of doing things. BFPs and pregnancy and children and miscarriages are talked about quite freely over there. It is a very different environment and considering the discussion we are having here on that may not be comfortable for many. Edit* Not implying you or anyone would not be welcome, every one is welcome no matter their situation.

I’m confused about whats so important to say that has you worried about not being able to say regarding your child if it’s not pertinent? Could you please give an example of the comments you feel should be necessary to include? I’m having difficulty understanding. How important could it be if it’s not related to TTC (the purpose of this board)? I can imagine the joy and excitement of talking about your child, but I have not gotten to experience it yet. I’ve been here as long as you have and I’m still trying for baby #1. If you can’t understand the emotions of some people getting lapped in the years of their participation here then I don’t know what else to say. It’s hard enough seeing multiple people come back for siblings still being here but having them then fight to speak freely about unrelated TTC comments about their children is even more of a slap in the face. Sorry to you and others from September ‘16 BMB, but a trigger warning for pertinent information of children shouldn’t be that much to ask. There is also a TFAS thread. Coming from someone who has experienced IF I would think that maybe you would’ve had more understanding here. Personally I feel a TW and pertinent information is fair.

Avrilmai · August 2018

So I realize I am late to this party, took a day away. But as someone who has been here for quite some time and has gone from wide-eyed newb to only posting in the IF I thought I should voice my opinion on a few things. Plus, I'm feeling a bit salty today.

1. I HATE the idea of splitting the grad thread into a >6month thread<6 thread. It feels like a way that makes me an "other." I like that we can celebrate an IFer getting a BFP on the same thread as someone who has not had that hardship.
to address question of those like @holly321 or @meatballs37 I think that it could be considered cumulative time on TTGP. I would never begrudge either of them, or anyone else in their positions, posting there as they have been a part of this community. I'm not on board with someone who has only been here for 2 weeks posting, because, not cool.
to the point of the lurk, lurk, lurk...yeah do that. it is easy to see what is acceptable with the culture of the board at that time. I lurked for 5 months before posting. And even early on. 3 months in to posting. (when I was still naive) I really considered "would it be appropriate for me to post in the grad thread?". spoiler: it was never an issue

2. TTA/Benched when I was benched I tried, once, to participate there, but it just didn't feel welcoming because it was a lot of TTA for vacations or weddings and that was not why I was there. I do like the proposed idea of a space for those ladies that are not actively trying to get pregnant on the TTGP board. Like I said I lurked for 5 months, that first month we were not actively trying, so I looked at BOTB but that board didn't have much activity.
I don't mind having women who are actively temping/charting/monitoring their cycles participate in the dailies. When I stared posting we had a reg posting in WTO/TWW who was going through all of the motions but was TTA for work reasons. She was a supportive member of the board.
3. I don't really post here so I will defer to those that do, but I don't not mind adding a TW to any post if it spares someone a second of heartache.
4. I like @lulu1180 's idea of having a board org thread like the BMB do. I know we lost a bunch of the daily "fun" threads and some others along the way because people graduate and maybe the newer group don't realize they were once common threads.
5. Okay, this one really irritates me. I have zero sympathy for this; boo-hoo. I don't know the excitement that comes with a BFP, having never seen one myself, but seriously? The majority of TB is dedicated to ppl who are KU. go to 1st tri, Chit-chat, or just lurk and love-tit and practice patience until your BMB opens. (I am not opposed to grads chiming in when they can provided insight or offer something original and never mind seeing grads post support in the grad thread)
6. to solve this problem...LURK. and if some one has a question about a long-time member i would hope they would just reach out to that person directly.

Alyeena · August 2018

@beachbunnyxo123

I don't want to talk about my son all the time, It is just difficult to feel like it is forbidden to mention him at all. The main place I think it could come up is the randoms thread, let's say people are talking about their plans for the weekend, should I just say nothing because it will have mentions of my child? I don't need to randomly mention him all the time, but I feel like I would have a hard time participating in random topics like this if I can't mention him at all.

I really do understand the pain of infertility. I personally never minded people mentioning kids, especially older kids but I was very hurt by pregnancy announcements and pregnancy talk or little babies. We all have different triggers and even if some things don't affect me I can understand that it affects other people, and I will respect the boards wishes. I just wanted talk a little about how I felt on this point since the thread was asking for opinions. I am glad I did because I realized it is not as ridiculous of a rule as I thought it was at first.

lulu1180 · August 2018

@Alyeena The only place that is that restrictive is the daily threads (WTO/TWW). You can mention your son in the randoms thread if you're talking about what you did over the weekend in whatever way you want. The only thing I would suggest is to at least give a TW prior so someone can avoid it if necessary. The only place TW it is never necessary when mentioning kids would (obviously) be the TFAS thread.

Alyeena · August 2018

@lulu1180 That makes so much more sense and makes it all a lot better, I really thought it was all over the board except the TFAS thread. Thank you for clarifying.

KristoKekerooni · August 2018

@Alyeena The only place that is that restrictive is the daily threads (WTO/TWW). You can mention your son in the randoms thread if you're talking about what you did over the weekend in whatever way you want. The only thing I would suggest is to at least give a TW prior so someone can avoid it if necessary. The only place TW it is never necessary when mentioning kids would (obviously) be the TFAS thread.

@lulu1180 , and the IF thread....

lulu1180 · August 2018

@KristoKekerooni That too, of course! Although LOs are mentioned so very rarely in the IF thread so I guess it slipped my mind to specifically mention it because it's not as much of a problem

holly321 · August 2018

I don't think most people feel like they can mention LC anyone, I honestly assumed it was "restricted" everywhere . I definitely think TTCAL would agree it is restricted there.

Again, I just don't generally bring stuff up because I am "following board culture" and don't wish to hurt or offend. But an example, like ib threads like mental health I don't mention lcLC but again, the information is pertinent to the subject. Both my kids have ASD, and DD has a lot of other issues like anxiety and mood disorders. Not only does it affect my mental health, but I am constantly at psychiatrist/psychology appointments and not that I want to discuss them, it is more discussing something I learned/heard.

lulu1180 · August 2018

thegirlwhowaited_ said:

I agree with some of the PPs that the OP was ALOT of information to digest. I think it would be the best course of action to break up suzycupcake original suggestions into polls to first see if the majority of the board would like any changes to those threads/topics/policies, and then people can comment what suggested changes would be, then another poll to decide on what changes.

Otherwise I feel we will end up going in circles.

I think this is a good idea. @suzycupcake If it's ok with you, I'd like to work with you to put this together. When I have time this weekend, I will send you a PM (or you can send me one if you have a chance first) and we can start with a survey to gauge people's opinions on the topics mentioned in your OP then go from there as @thegirlwhowaited_ suggested above.

suzycupcake · August 2018

@lulu1180 Since I'm the one that started this big long list of discussions, I feel it wouldn't be fair if I don't do some of the work in parsing things out. If you really want to, then okay, but my feelings won't be hurt if you change your mind. Survey monkey?

AFM and my opinions:

1. I personally don't mind the current board tone regarding the grad threads. I do think that "First, people are getting called out for being here for a few months and posting in the grad threads even though they meet the criteria for 1, 2, and 3" still needs to be addressed.

2. I do also think the benched thread should be a safe place for the ladies who cannot ttgp for reasons beyond their control. I'm cool with whatever anyone wants to do beyond that; not have a place for the ladies who are waiting for other various reasons or having a place for them, or directing them somewhere else.

3. As for the TWO/TWW threads, I'm okay with keeping the added text about pertinency and being added to a spoiler. I like the instructions @KristoKekerooni wrote to explain the differences for added clarity;

mentioning kids because they are affecting TTC= pertinent.
mentioning kids just because= not pertinent

For example:

I am breastfeeding so my cycles are wonky- pertinent
My kid woke up a bazzillion times last night so I didn't temp- pertinent
my kid is super sick, so we couldn't HIO on key days- pertinent

I was late to work this AM because my kid couldn't find her shoes- not pertinent.
My kid has a play today, and I am so excited/bored/whatever-not pertinent.

I'm cool with what everyone else decides, but I do hope that regardless, that second time moms and + will start feeling more comfortable about posting on this board.

4. For when it's okay to start a thread and when it isn't, maybe there will never be a way to fully agree on this one. I just think that if we aren't going to change the newbie guide and because TB's guides allow it, then maybe we could extend a little more grace to the ones who do it. I haven't been very good at this one myself and am trying to learn the difference when someone is trying to use us like google or asks us which type of hpt to buy vs asking a legitimate question.

For a long time, I thought it just wasn't okay to create our own thread, at all. I know that common sense plays a role here, but I also think that some ladies being here longer does give them a leg up on lurking so it's not really only common sense at play here. I think if we worked together to make the community a bit more welcoming, it might make it more likely that newbies will reach out and ask questions rather than be so afraid of making a mistake, that they make a mistake, opening the door to lack of consistency in rule enforcement depending on everyones' mood for that day.

5. I don't have an opinion on this one.

6.

A. I really do believe that this one needs to be addressed. We all have triggers and it's very difficult to deal with them when they come up. IFers/Lossers even trigger each other. Yesterday was a perfect example of that. Maybe I'm a bit too idealistic, but perhaps an IF/Loss buddy system would be effective in these scenarios. If someone posts something seemingly insensitive and is triggering, if you cannot gently call out, reach out to the buddy system to see if there is another lady who is able to extend a little more grace in the moment. But, I get that others will have a completely different opinion on this than I do. I'm cool with whatever the board decides, including not deciding at all.

B. I don't have an opinion about this. It was an observation.

C. I don't have an opinion about this either. Observation.

Swiftlet · August 2018

I agree that breaking topics up for discussion/polls is probably best and easiest for everyone involved.

coco2787 · August 2018

I gotta say, I really have no recollection of anyone who had been here for several months getting called out in the grad thread. There were people that had been trying for several months that got called out because they had only actually been posting a month or less, but that's not the same thing.

zamoraspin · August 2018

@suzycupcake I'm going to say something that is not popular. I know, what else is new. If the majority of folks feel the rules need to be clarified or changed, cool. But if the goal is to create a set of rules so clear that no one will ever be called out for anything other than things that are clearly against the rules, it's not going to happen because (1) It's not possible to be that clear or comprehensive, and (2) Depending on how you define "called out" there will always be a risk that someone will call you out, even if you don't break a rule, if someone doesn't like what you said or disagrees with you. It's just how the internet works. The thing to realize is it's not something to get worked up about. Many of the long time posters here have had disagreements with others over the years and continued to be valued members of the community.

On 4 specifically, I am not pretending to be a or the authority on this, but this is what I ask myself about a new thread (not including the regularly created threads), and whether or not it falls into the category of "one off posts" which are discouraged: (1) Does this question/comment/issue belong in/fit easily into an existing thread? (A question about charting could go in cs/q for example), and, (2) Does this question/comment/issue benefit or concern (primarily) only one poster? If either of these is a yes, there's a good chance the topic does not need its own thread.

suzycupcake · August 2018

@coco2787 I've seen it before though I don't remember when. I've also seen members who were only here trying for two months and didn't get called out. Newer members have come to me saying that the rules are a bit confusing. I don't find them confusing personally. I know that's not helping much.

@zamora_spin I know that call outs will still happen during disagreements. I'm not sure if you're referring to everything as a whole or certain sections, but I'm assuming as a whole. I'm only saying that I think extending a little more grace is better than making people feel like everything that they say is wrong. Hmmm that's probably over dramatic. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we could do a little better catering to our more emotionally sensitive members/members who are just really excited about everything, so that we don't scare people away. It would help to be more approachable so that people won't be afraid to ask questions. I know you know that we can see it when someone is apologizing profusely, over and beyond how people would normally apologize, and in other ways. I can think of a few members just in the last couple of weeks who haven't logged on since.

KristoKekerooni · August 2018

As I have said before, I don't have many opinions as whole. But I wonder if we are really going to do this, if we can unpin the threads and NOT repin something in its place, that way we can more easily change them if necessary. We can all work together to keep it bumped. I think we are all pretty good at that anyway. That way nothing gets stuck and we can adjust as necessary without having a big go-around every time.

My one opinion on the grad thread is this- it is difficult to know who "should" post. So why don't we just leave it open? even if someone who has NEVER posted here before wants to go there, why not? I don't pretend to speak for all of IFers, but I *think* the current bat signal we have in place is working for us. TTCAL could easily do the same.

Just to explain, most IFers want to avoid the grad thread. but that means we miss our friends graduating. Or if we are expecting a BFP (like after a FET), and we see a new post, it's like we have to prepare ourselves to open it because we don't know if it'll be out friend or a rando. To circumvent this, we have a bat signal. The people who are having a good day open the thread, and post a unicorn gif (with zero other information or details) in the IF thread if the poster is a friend. There isn't any discussion, no "OMG, WHO" nothing. Just a single gif. So then we can pick and choose if we are capable of looking at is.

I think this is really effective for us. So if the TTCAL do the same, I think we should be okay, even if a 1/1 posts. Because anyone who isn't involved in one of those threads shouldn't be too affected by a 1/1 anyway.

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