Breastfeeding/Supplementing/Formula Feeding

Dumbgurl04 · December 2017

I shared this article in the Weekly Randoms and some said it would be good to have it's own thread since it talks about rethinking the Breastfeeding guidelines that WHO and AAP recommend, and it would make for some good open dialogue. Thought it would be good information about how we need to support a mother no matter how she feeds her child. Also BF does not come natural to every mom and baby so it your plans for BF don't go the way you planned that it is ok if you have to supplement or switch completely to formula feeding. I know not everyone will agree and that's ok, but just because you don't agree with how a mom feeds her child doesn't mean you can't support her in her journey. What works for you won't necessarily work for someone else. I hope we can be supportive enough of one another that we won't face the dreaded mom guilt that comes with feeding, I know easier said then done.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/case-rethinking-breastfeeding-goals-163726732.html

sparklingdiamond · December 2017

I posted this response in the weekly thread, but thought I would post it here too.

I totally agree that there is an overall lack of support for moms who want to breastfeed and also a lack of support for those that formula feed. I breastfed my son until he weaned himself around 13-14 months. Mine was also more of a personal goal because it was something I wanted to do. I wanted to make it to a year. I was lucky that my son's pediatrician was super supportive (he was always on the lower end percentile wise). She never pressured me to add formula, but offered it as a choice. I got a lot of crap for having to pump at work though (I worked at the time with just two men...now there are at least a couple of other women here but they have grown children). Because apparently I took "half a day" to pump and "why are you still going shouldn't you have stopped already?" I really think it all stems from there is just a lack of empathy and support for moms in general, especially working moms. Moms aren't really valued like they are in some other countries.

Also adding that I in no way think SAHM's have it any easier, I just have never been one so am speaking from my experience as a working mom.

whatabout2ndbreakfast · December 2017

Lack of support at work is an incredibly huge barrier. I work at a "baby friendly" hospital, but their baby friendly policies only extend to patients. When I called HR trying to find a place to pump, they instructed me to find an empty office (this was really ridiculous because we have people sharing offices and looking for extra space all the time). There's no type of paid maternity leave/STD available so we can only use our PTO for leave, so when we get back you have no PTO to cover your breaks for pumping. I have a lot of hard feelings about breastfeeding, but part of it in the back of my mind was the going back to work restraints. Like, baby has to take a bottle by this time so that they can be comfortable at daycare plus I'm going to have to work how much overtime to make up for pumping during the day... It's so hard.

ngolimento · December 2017

I am a big proponent of leaving moms the eff alone of they supplement, and ending the myth of "nipple confusion".

I spent the first week of my baby's life being told by multiple people that I had ruined my chances of breastfeeding by supplementing my large baby. She came out of the womb wanting 3 oz meals, and had low blood sugar on just colostrum. I remember being in tears over failing before my milk even came in.

Then guess what? My milk came in and my baby immediately as all "hallelujah!" and became a bigger boob lover than Hugh Heffner. I had been put into a state of despair for absolutely zero reason. "Nipple confusion" for a newborn is BS.

klburke88 · December 2017

@ngolimento THIS is exactly what I'm afraid of, that my milk won't come in right away, that we'll need to supplement for a while, and that my baby won't take to my breast after receiving a bottle. Your experience really eases my mind!!!

I have tons of questions about breastfeeding, even googling hasn't provided me with clear answers. I will be watching this thread closely, so please continue to share your firsthand experiences!!!

ladythrice · December 2017

@klburke88, we have a breastfeeding thread you might be interested in. I'm sure once babies start coming many of us that have oodles of wisdom to share will do so!

https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12717098/breastfeeding-survival-guide

petethecat · December 2017

I agree with @ngolimento that the notion of "nipple confusion" is a giant load of innacurate BS that makes me ragey.

Relating to mom guilt, (and hopefully this isn't too off topic or general for this particular thread) I just want to drop this here real quick in support of ALL THE MOMS

kmalls · December 2017

@kbamomma33 I’ve seen that on social media before and it always makes me a little weepy with gratitude whenever I read it. Motherhood is so full of judgement and guilt and EXHAUSTION that sometimes just a little affirmation in the form of a “silly” online post is intensely meaningful. Thank you for posting it!

ngolimento · December 2017

@klburke88 I think the myth arose because of older babies. Because sure, if you exclusively suppliment for the entire first month of a baby's life, then try to get them to latch onto a boob, they are going to be all "wtf?". But if you start them out with boob time, and are forced to occasionally suppliment, they will prefer the boob.

With supplementing, the only thing you need to be cautious of is to make sure your nipples get stimulated as well. Think of your first week as the order box at the drive through. How often you stimulate your breast will determine what you pick up at the window. Let your kid at least try to nurse as often as they want before supplimenting, and that should be fine for your end production. You even have the option of taping a feeding line to your nipple so your baby can be fed formula while "nursing" on you. That covers both stimulating you, and feeding the baby.

ladythrice · December 2017

ngolimento said:

@klburke88 I think the myth arose because of older babies. Because sure, if you exclusively suppliment for the entire first month of a baby's life, then try to get them to latch onto a boob, they are going to be all "wtf?". But if you start them out with boob time, and are forced to occasionally suppliment, they will prefer the boob.

With supplementing, the only thing you need to be cautious of is to make sure your nipples get stimulated as well. Think of your first week as the order box at the drive through. How often you stimulate your breast will determine what you pick up at the window. Let your kid at least try to nurse as often as they want before supplimenting, and that should be fine for your end production. You even have the option of taping a feeding line to your nipple so your baby can be fed formula while "nursing" on you. That covers both stimulating you, and feeding the baby.

So, I don't necessarily want to argue that something such as 'nipple confusion' exists but I do want to add a point of clarification. Boob preference can absolutely be affected by flow speed... both of the let-down and of the bottle nipple flow size. If you are supplementing with a bottle flow size that is not reflective of your nipple let-down speed, you can absolutely create a situation where baby gets frustrated at the boob because bottles are easier and thus the baby prefers a bottle over boob-I had this happen with DS.

That being said, this can be easily prevented (and reversed!) and is only necessary if you happen to be like me and have a slower let down. Supplementing at the breast with a syringe and tube (as @Ngolimento describes above) during those early days and using preemie flow nipples on bottles when supplementing with a bottle will help.

@Ngolimento highlights two incredibly important factors for ensuring that supplementing doesn't adversely affect breastfeeding and that is always offer breast first and let baby nurse to completion before supplementing (even if you syringe supplement) and always stimulate your breasts whenever baby is receiving a supplement, EVEN IF you just finished nursing (yeah, that means breaking out the pump if baby is getting a bottle supplement). To continue the analogy, if you don't 'order' every single time the baby feeds, the drive-through restaurant doesn't make enough to cover each meal, only the ones for which you've ordered.

danjoly · December 2017

I love this article. I was really brainwashed about the whole BF thing and I had a horrible journey despite A LOT of support from 3 LC and a breastfeeding medicine specialist (yup
some doctors specialize in breastfeeding for more complex cases). I pushed myself to the edge of PPD and was overwhelmed by guilt. I feel like the first 3 months of my son’s life are a blur mainly because of that. We introduced formula and my baby thrived and I was way happier. I continued hand expressing my milk daily until he was 7 months (even hospital grade pump can’t work with my issues so I was squeezing 8oz of milk out once a day). This time I want to BF but I’m not going to make myself sick over it and won’t let my baby drop below the 3rd percentile like it happened this time.

rmmorris · December 2017

@ngolimento we were pressured not to supplement in the hospital too, but I KNEW she was frustrated that my milk hadn’t come in yet. She started refusing to nurse at all because of it. They finally brought us formula because she was jaundiced and she was happy again. Supplementing had NO impact on breastfeeding for us. This time around I’m going to be much more persistent if my milk is delayed.

Puddlewonderful · December 2017

Question for TTMs- if your milk was delayed for the first baby, was it also delayed for your second? I associated my long delay (1 full week) with being a first time mom. Should I brace myself for it again?

oh, and we supplemented my 9 pounder for that’s first week and he breastfed just fine

lindsye · December 2017

@Puddlewonderful my milk came in much faster for babies 2 and 3 - like, I believe within 2 days my milk had come in. I also had to supplement baby #1 but didn’t for 2 or 3.

Puddlewonderful · December 2017

@lindsye thanks! Can I ask how long between your milk drying up and milk coming back in for next kid? Just curious, I wonder if there’s a correlation. It will have been 18 months for me.

lindsye · December 2017

@Puddlewonderful yeah it’s more like 6 months for me (all of mine have nursed until close to 18 months old), so that could definitely have affected it as well. I hope yours comes in faster for baby #2! It sure makes life easier when you can get into the routine and practice nursing right away

ladythrice · December 2017

@puddlewonderful I had delayed milk with my first but no issues with my second! I also had a C/S with the first and a VBAC with the second and 'they' say that can be a contributor. I had a 3 month gap between DS weaning and DD1's birth (holy crap I didn't realize it was that close until I wrote that out...). This time I'll have a 5 month gap and I'm already leaking colostrum... If you had little issues feeding your first, chances are you're body will figure out what's going on right quick with this one.

dan0081 · December 2017

This is such a helpful thread, thank you for starting this @Dumbgurl04!
@sparklingdiamond I'm sorry you had to go through that at work.. I can't believe how difficult it is for women to get time to pump. In my mind, it shouldn't be something that others can dictate. When I was student teaching, I worked with a teacher who had to go in a tiny closet basically to pump and if I wasn't there, I'm not even sure who would have watched the class for the short period of time she was away.

Has anyone used donor milk before? I know I had (still have) a lot of stomach (lactose intolerance) and skin issues when I was little so I wanted to look into other options in addition to formulas made for sensitive stomachs. Any insight would be great about donor milk or formulas made for sensitive stomachs, in preparation if LO does have some issues. I will definitely be following along with this thread.. it's so helpful and I'm thankful for everyone sharing their past experiences!

ladythrice · December 2017

@dan0081 I'm in a support group for working breastfeeding moms and almost universally teachers and nurses get screwed because of their schedules and inability to have someone cover for them while they take breaks.

dan0081 · December 2017

@ladythrice I could totally see that being a huge issue having experience in both settings. I can sense the difficulty it would be to find someone even willing to watch over your classroom/patients while you pump and on the flip side, I could see how it would be challenging if you were the person asked to watch someone else's class/patients. There has to be a better way because I feel like women are essentially punished or at least put in a really challenging position (like having to ask people to cover them) for pumping at work.. It just seems crazy to me.

ngolimento · December 2017

dan0081 said:

This is such a helpful thread, thank you for starting this @Dumbgurl04!
@sparklingdiamond I'm sorry you had to go through that at work.. I can't believe how difficult it is for women to get time to pump. In my mind, it shouldn't be something that others can dictate. When I was student teaching, I worked with a teacher who had to go in a tiny closet basically to pump and if I wasn't there, I'm not even sure who would have watched the class for the short period of time she was away.

Has anyone used donor milk before? I know I had (still have) a lot of stomach (lactose intolerance) and skin issues when I was little so I wanted to look into other options in addition to formulas made for sensitive stomachs. Any insight would be great about donor milk or formulas made for sensitive stomachs, in preparation if LO does have some issues. I will definitely be following along with this thread.. it's so helpful and I'm thankful for everyone sharing their past experiences!

I am a certified donor

. Lactose is the basic building block of all mammilian milk, so unfortunately if you have a baby with true lactose intolerance, a donor won't make a difference. You would need to do special formula. Fortunately a true lactose intolerance in a baby is extremely rare. Most have what is called a bovine protein intolerance (there is a protein in cow-origin dairy that upsets some stomachs).

I personally had a baby with bovine protein intolerance, and had to completely eliminate dairy from my diet (obscenely hard to do, it is in literally everything). At the same time I overprpduced milk, so I signed up to donate to NICUs. My milk in particular was considered liquid gold by the NICU because it was dairy protein free, making it safe for the most sensitive of babies. Your average certified donor is also required to not drink caffeine, not take most medications, and wait 12 hours after drinking before collecting donation milk again. It is pretty rigorous. Not to mention the blood testing.

sparklingdiamond · December 2017

@ngolimento That is so awesome that you were able to be a donor! I always wanted to do that, but I reall only produced enough for DS.

dan0081 · December 2017

@ngolimento Thank you.. that's extremely helpful to hear and amazing that you are a certified donor. What a gift to others! I didn't realize the no caffeine and drinking part of being a donor. I bet your milk was liquid gold.. avoiding all dairy products is extremely challenging. We will just have to see how LO does, but it's so helpful to hear your insight in case we do need a sensitive formula or donor milk.

Edited to add: I had read that lactose intolerance is rare in infants, and I certainly don't think I had that when I was a newborn. I just know as I got older, all the dairy products would create so many issues for me. I miss cheese and ice cream so much.. especially now that I'm pregnant!

kmalls · December 2017

@dan0081 we were able to utilize donor milk with DS as he had a slightly longer Hospital stay than normal, and was in the special care nursery (level below NICU). Because my milk didn’t come in during that hospital stay, he qualified for donor milk and that was great. Unfortunately the standards — in my hospital, at least — are pretty rigid for which babies qualify. When DD was born it also took forever for my milk to come in, but since she was a typical, healthy baby, they couldn’t offer us donor milk. I was disappointed but it wasn’t the end if the world, I was totally fine using formula.

dan0081 · December 2017

@kmalls That's so interesting to hear about the standards in place for donor milk. I figured if you wanted to use donor milk, you'd be able to (although I know it's quite expensive). It sounds like some of the qualifications at your hospital for donor milk is based on the baby's health and if the mother's milk has come in or not, correct? I'm certainly fine using formula if that's our option. I think with all the choices for formula it's just been a bit overwhelming to think about.

kmalls · December 2017

@dan0081 I guess? Honestly I don’t even understand it myself. I know DS wasn’t given donor milk immediately after birth, but after a few days it was suddenly an option. We asked for it with DD and they said they wished they could, but since she’s a healthy newborn she didn’t qualify. I didn’t really ask any more questions!

ngolimento · December 2017

kmalls said:

@dan0081 we were able to utilize donor milk with DS as he had a slightly longer Hospital stay than normal, and was in the special care nursery (level below NICU). Because my milk didn’t come in during that hospital stay, he qualified for donor milk and that was great. Unfortunately the standards — in my hospital, at least — are pretty rigid for which babies qualify. When DD was born it also took forever for my milk to come in, but since she was a typical, healthy baby, they couldn’t offer us donor milk. I was disappointed but it wasn’t the end if the world, I was totally fine using formula.

I think the problem of getting donor milk through hospitals is that the demand is bigger than the supply. NICU is first in line, then babies with special but not critical needs (jaundice). The standards the donors are kept to are very high, so a lot of milk isn't even able to be donated. At about 6 months I couldn't operate on no caffeine any longer since my baby sucked at sleeping, so I stopped donating to the hospital and just donated to my local mother's group.

I personally don't know the standards of services that sell milk, since I didn't want to make people pay for something like that. They might be more lax.

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