IF Testing and Treatment w/o 8.24

acleverusername

@emeraldduchess I am so so sorry about your news. 🙁😭I can only imagine how you're feeling and how YH is feeling. Putting more stuff in spoiler since it's long. How did the interviews go? 

I too have struggled to get MH to "contribute" to the fertility equation. Last year, before we were TTC'ing, but just before I made a decision to do ER for egg freezing – a journey I'd begun a year earlier – I asked him to do an at home SA kit (Dadi). Well, it came back with pretty bad results... motility was something like 4%. FW to this year, when he did his formal SA analysis at a lab, motility was 44% and other aspects like volume and count were much better than last year's results. But our lifestyle had changed drastically between then and now, and I think it's 100% responsible for the improvement we've seen. Last year we were both drinking quite a bit; he was eating tons of carby/sugary good; there was also 4/20 in the equation and cut that all out when we started to TTC. I was so happy when he did the Whole30 challenge with me, during which he lost 6-7 pounds. I've also got him taking so many different vitamins. The only thing I haven't succeeded in doing is getting him to move more. However, during our RE appointment last week, I specifically asked if him exercising would improve the sperm quality and the RE basically said: him not exercising isn't the reason you're not pregnant. 

So, while I know this doesn't help you for this IVF cycle, I hope YH does consider making changes going forward. Drinking and BMI are critical to fertility. Also, supplements (antioxidants are key). I got a list from our IUI sessions on suggested supplements for men. Lmk if you'd like to see it. Also happy to share what I've got MH taking. 

Once again, I am so so so so so sad for you.

 

@inthewoods23 your next steps look good; it's definitely good to redo those tests since it's been a while. Hopefully your healthy lifestyle will prove to have been beneficial for both of you! Thanks for a run-down of what I can expect w/ the IUI. We'll see how it goes. Geothermal spas in Iceland sound amazing. Cue travel hunger pangs. 

@kpearse99 thanks for sharing your IUI experience; the shrinking follicle is a new concern I didn't know I should have! Gah... definitely need to talk to someone. Being a project manager IRL is not helping me.

@babyfeverbeliever welcome to the group; I hope your stay here isn't very long. Bummer about the BFN though. Thanks for sharing your current Letrazole experience. A follicle of 25.5 is BIG! 

@kiki047 I was very giddy when I found that gif and was hoping it brought to delight to few/many. Dying at YH pinching your butt to practice. MH is also severely needle-averse, so I'm already anticipating having to do any shots w/o his help or even support. Currently imagining him passing out just as I'm about to give myself a shot and yep... not worth it. Also, I knew you'd know about Scandiavian Spa. Thanks for your PM. 

emeraldduchess

Thank you ladies. You always know what to say to lift me up.

I am going to hope with every fiber of my being that those 4 embryos are warriors and will fight as hard to grow as I fought to get them here. All I can do is wait and hope. DH is feeling terrible right now and TBH I think I need to let him. Maybe it will give him an idea of what the last two years have felt like for me. 

In silver-lining, completely non-TTC related news, I had an interview this morning (20 minutes after talking to the doctor) which I somehow managed to crush. They called me this afternoon to offer me the job and I accepted. So at least things are looking up in the career department and I got some good news today after all that. 

ramzlau

40 comments already! You guys are hopping this week! Going to try to catch up in less than an hour. 

Diagnosis (if you've been): Unexplained (Secondary?)

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): TWW- 6DPIUI (implantation zone!)

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Back to back IUI with Gonal F, Clomid, Estrace, Prometrium, PNV, Vitamin D, Folate, Aspirin, CoQ10

How are things going?: Just trying to keep the TWW crazies at bay. Counting the days (multiple times a day as if it is going to change in the same day). 

Any questions?: tw* discussion of lo 

Okay can someone explain what secondary infertility is really defined as? I mean we had unexplained IF with our first lo, and now back in the same boat. I feel like that is different somehow than having no problems with the first and then being blindsided by having IF with a second. Does secondary make that distinction? Maybe it doesn't matter because either boat you are in IF sucks. 

GTKY: What is your favorite way to treat and/or pamper yourself? With nail salons here still closed, I just got into Color Street (just buying lol). I still prefer to have someone else pamper me, but at least I can have pretty nails for the time being. 

@acleverusername Thank you for the links and info! I have subscribed to Fertility IQ for years, but haven't taken any of their courses. Love that they are so scientific backed! To answer some of your questions. I was on 100 mg of Clomid for 5 days this cycle. It isn't high, but I think the lowest is 25, so not really low either. I haven't had a cycle cancelled because of too many follies, but this cycle came close to that. I had 3 follies and my doctor stressed multiple times the risk of multiples with this cycle to give us an option of an out. My RE has me wait until 20 mm to trigger, but I think some use 18 mm as the minimum size of at least 1 follie (they tend to grow a bit more after you trigger even). I did 3-4 ultrasounds this time because of the extra follies and because we decided to trigger 2 days earlier than the original plan because the follies took off on growth (going from 11 -15 in 3 days and then 15-20 overnight). We are out of pocket, so the extra ultrasounds are pricey, but worth it to us because of the importance of timing (then again we are on #4 IUI). I don't post in dailies because I have a hard time keeping up with this thread and my cycle tends to be crazy for about 5-10 days before O, and then no news the other 22-27 days of the cycle. 
@kpearse99 Welcome back friend! It hurts my heart to hear of all the emotional baggage you have been going through, but I hope that waking up bright eyed and bushy tailed is the beginning of a new leaf turning over for you! Take care of that hamstring, you don't want an injury like me! And samies for not sharing popcorn!
@misshelen86 Oh man! To just get up the nerve to tell a manager and then have to do it all over again with someone you don't have an established relationship with is scary. I hope you find quick rapport with them! 
@kiki047 Yay for an FET date! It is coming up so soon! 
@gingermama29 Yay for being in the TWW (hopefully!)! Does that mean the BC might have worked to regulate your cycle? I have been cheering for you! 
@inthewoods23 Ouch! I have definitely done a lot of screaming and crying when those surprise messages come. I hope you can work through the emotions and give yourself all the tlc! 
@babyfeverbeliever Sorry for your BFN. I haven't had any luck with the Letrozole+Ovidrel+TI (or even just Ovidrel+TI). My RE has said the IUI increases your chance by about 5%, so not a huge lift, but maybe that little extra. 
@emeraldduchess Oh friend. That is so many emotions! 29 follies to only have 4 fertilize and to have the layer of it pointing to poor sperm quality after all you have been through. And then to get a job (yay!)! I will be cheering for those 4 embabies! Please keep us updated on their status! It only takes one, so lets hope you get that one! 

acleverusername

@emeraldduchess agreed that you SHOULD make YH feel bad for a while. Also... 

CONGRATS!!!

acleverusername

@ramzlau happy to share any / all juicy info I get my hands on. Are you temping btw? Good luck with TWW. 6 days down, but so many more days to go. Btw, you're exactly right re: secondary part of unexplained infertility. It differentiates if you didn't have issues 1st time around, and having issues 2nd+ time. 

Thanks so very much for your perspective on Clomid dosage and your experience with u/s. It's all out of pocket for us too, but if extra u/s means getting better timing, then I'd bite the bullet. I am worried about the multiples thing, especially after the FertilityIQ course that show some pretty substantial risks to mother & babies. 2 is okay, but 3 chances of infant mortality / cerebral palsy jump into somewhat dubious ranges (over 5%). Anyways, for now I have to get my period so that I can start Clomid! I'm treating our first cycle as "baseline" to assess how both MH and I respond to it. 

gingermama29

@emeraldduchess oh friend, I am so sorry. Your feelings are totally valid and understandable. Sending positive vibes to those four embies and hugs to you.
Editing to add congratulations on the new job!! I imagine that's such a major stress relief for you!

@inthewoods23 I said this in the dailies yesterday but I'm so happy for you that you also advocated for your mental health and had a good appointment. I'm so sorry for the trigger from your sister. That's so hard.

@acleverusername I commend you for being so open about the process. It can be so hard for others to understand fertility issues, especially the emotional and mental side of it. I'm glad you're snowing for yourself and looking into the counseling offered. I hope it helps!

@kiki047 and @kpearse99 thank you friends. I appreciate your kind words and support 💕

@ramzlau hi friend! I'm rooting so hard for you in this TWW!! And yes, it appears that BC has helped with my cycle. O snuck up on me because I'm not used to Oing this early in my cycle!  

kpearse99

@ramzlau I have everything crossed for you!!!! Secondary IF typically refers to when you did not have trouble getting pregnant with your first LO but now you are having trouble. It is weird that's what they are saying you have because, like you said, you had trouble with the first one too. 

@emeraldduchess That is AMAZING news about the job!! I am so happy for you!!!

acleverusername

For anyone with progesterone supplementation experience, how soon after you stopped did you get your period? My last dose was on Fri night (I was doing 200mg AM and 200mg PM), and still no sign of AF. 😭 

emeraldduchess

@acleverusername the first time I took progesterone suppositories, it took my body a few days to adjust and for AF to arrive. I know it's annoying but your body should figure it out. 

chichiphin

hope it's okay to *lurk* and say I'm so sorry. I'm pulling for those 4 embryos. but also MAJOR congrats on the job @emeraldduchess

kiki047

@acleverusername my LP is usually 13-14 days and the progesterone was usually prescribed for 14 days so I found I started spotting almost right away. But the longest I've gone is 3 days after stopping progesterone before AF arrived. 
@emeraldduchess agreed that you should let DH wallow in that for a while, and maybe that will be a humbling experience to feel a glimmer of what you've been through these past 2 years. But I do hope you'll take some time to celebrate the new job, and cheer on those developing embies!! How are you feeling today bloat-wise? Any better? Personally I felt like absolute trash for 2 weeks but then it got better after a horrific AF. 
@ramzlau FX for that medicated IUI!! And I agree with what PPs have said, secondary IF would apply when you didn't have trouble TTC previous LCs but have been dx with IF for subsequent attempts.

keikilove

Peeking in real quick to say 

@emeraldduchess Congrats on landing the job!! 

@ramzlau FX for this IUI’s success! Hope the TWW flies by for you. 

@acleverusername When I was doing the dose you did of progesterone, AF was usually delayed by about 3 days. Now the Dr has upped my dose of PIO in addition to the oral & vaginal pills. AF is nowhere in sight & it’s been 4 days since I stopped. I expect it will take a full week.  

inthewoods23

@emeraldduchess you go girl!

@ramzlau I am doing much better about the surprise text. Hope there's an embryo starting to get nice and snuggly in there!

@gingermama29 it's only day 3 and I already feel like it's doing such good things in my brain. Like I can look at things like "that needs to be cleaned up and the kitchen floor still hasn't been swept" and it doesn't really bother me. My brain just makes a mental note of it now without freaking out. And this is only after 2 pills I'm so glad they scheduled me with the doctor I got since I don't have a PCP. Well, I think I do now!

@acleverusername On suppositories I generally would get AF the day after stopping or maybe the next. I think my body was anti-longer LP haha. I was only on 200mg in the PM though. The PIO when I was on that took a whole week! Not sure if that stuff is stronger or what. Hope AF shows her face soon!

ramzlau

Thank you everyone for answering the secondary question!

@acleverusername For me coming off of prometrium (progesterone suppositories) I stop on 14dpo and af is here by 16 dpo which is my normal length. The one time is wasn’t on time it was when I had a cyst. But it is different for everyone. 

acleverusername

Update: she has arrived! Took 5 days after last dose of Prometrium, extending my usual LP of about 10-11 days to 16 days. I guess progesterone works! 

inthewoods23

SA question - the new clinic is going to have DH provide his sample at home in a container and then we need to bring it in. So... how does that work in regards to the time that passes between getting it in the cup and giving it to the clinic? Isn't it important for them to look at it right away?

I'm so confused on this since my last clinic had everything there so it probably sat for no more than 5 minutes before they looked at it. Do we need to bring it in like absolutely ASAP?? The drive alone is probably 20 minutes. Does that matter?

keikilove

@inthewoods23 I think the general guideline is that it has to get to the clinic within an hour of collection. 

ETA: Remember when folks were posting here about collecting at home, putting the container in a sock, then keeping it warm between their boobs or thighs on the ride to the clinic?😄 That’s the advice I followed & what we ended up doing for our last IUI, which was during COVID. 

inthewoods23

@keikilove haha yes how could I forget the container sock. Knowing me though I'm going to be accidentally twirling the sock around like it's a nunchuck 

misshelen86

@inthewoods23 One hour is what’s recommended like @keikilove said. The count won’t be affected if it sits longer but the motility might. LOL at you swinging the sock around  😂 

inthewoods23

@misshelen86 always gotta be doing something with my hands I guess lol

ramzlau

@inthewoods23 cracking up here, but yes to what the others have said.

inthewoods23

@ramzlau I am DYING at that gif 

emeraldduchess

Late to the discussion here, but @inthewoods23 the 20 minute drive is no problem. Just keep the cup either up under your shirt or your armpit and it should be fine! The important thing is to keep them as close to body temperature as possible. Definitely don't use it to make nunchucks. 

We didn't get an update on our embryos today. I would have called them but I was stuck in training all day and couldn't step out. I hope I just heard them wrong about getting a Day 3 update and that they will call tomorrow or Saturday. I suppose no news is better than bad news? 

acleverusername

I was wondering if you have an update for us @emeraldduchess. Hopefully you'll know something tomorrow. Was the training for the new job? When do you start? 

inthewoods23

@emeraldduchess lol that bear! Are you going to call them tomorrow and ask if you were supposed to get a day 3 update? Some or all must be doing their thing!

Now I have a really strange question.... I have been told on numerous occasions (by DH and at least 1 coworker) that my seats are VERY warm when they sit down in my chairs after I've just gotten up from them. Is this.... normal? Is my problem that my freaking crotch is too warm and killing sperm?? Am I worrying over nothing?

emeraldduchess

@inthewoods23 that's a very interesting thing for multiple people to point out to you! I know they tell men to stay out of hot tubs and things like that, but I doubt your vajayjay is even close to that temperature! 

I really hope my embryos are OK. I suddenly had a terrible thought that they misunderstood what we wanted to do (which was go ahead with growing and biopsying any that make it to day 5) and instead destroyed them. I guess we were shocked that they even asked us if we still wanted to have them biopsied. But that was more a question if we wanted to spend the money if there's a chance we won't get any normal embryos. *TW* It felt like they were asking me to choose between paying for the PGD screening or roll the dice on a transfer and risk a third loss. End *TW*

bows22

@emeraldduchess I’m sure they didn’t misunderstand, but definitely call today so that this isn’t on your mind all weekend. I am praying so hard for your embryos and can’t wait for your update ❤️❤️ Also I am so thrilled for you on the job! Congrats!

emeraldduchess

Thanks, @bows22! I'm trying to wrap my head around everything that has happened in the last 5 days. Retrieval on Monday, interview/hired on Tuesday, toured my new school on Wednesday, teacher orientation yesterday and today. Adjusting to a new school district can be overwhelming under normal circumstances but right now with COVID it's bonkers. Election anxiety is the cherry on the insanity sundae! 

kpearse99

@inthewoods23 That's the same thinking I had/have when it comes to my body temperature while sleeping!!! When I did temp it was always in the upper 90's, which by looking at everyone else's charts was NOT normal!! haha 

kiki047

@inthewoods23 I wouldn't worry about your body temp being slightly higher than what might otherwise be considered normal... it's not like you're going to be putting the cup IN your vajoola... in your cleavage or just tucked between your thighs while you drive should be fine. We did all our samples at home for both SAs and IUIs. LOL to the thought of the nunchucks  

@emeraldduchess thinking about you and your embies!! Hopefully no news is good news. They wouldn't have destroyed them without your express permission. 

emeraldduchess

@kiki047 I know they can't do that without our permission. I just have a million anxious thoughts running through my head right now. 

I called the clinic and left a voicemail asking if there was any update. I'm so nervous for them to call back.

inthewoods23

@emeraldduchess anxiously waiting for call backs is the worst! I feel so on edge all day until they call. FX for some positive news!

My appointment went fine today. The nurse doing my US inserted the wand so damn slow it was like omg.... Anyway, this place also doesn't have a screen on the wall so I can easily view the US image so I was tilting my head over trying to look at the screen. 21 on the right, 13 on the left so count is still looking good. Should have the lab results early next week. And I think DH wants to get the SA done ASAP so he might call them today to schedule the drop off for Monday.

emeraldduchess

@inthewoods23 I wish my RE's office let us look at the screen during an u/s! Maybe they don't want us asking questions? 
No update on our embabies yet. The nurse said that they don't give updates until day 5. We'll most likely hear from the lab tomorrow or Sunday. I hope that's a good sign that they haven't called yet with bad news. I am telling myself that ICSI means they caught DH's best looking swimmers and that the whole point of ICSI is to help in cases like ours. DH is still baffled about his results. This was definitely a kick in the balls (literally). He's been going to the gym every day, stopped drinking soda/Gatorade, and is only going to have two drinks/week. I don't know exactly how long he'll keep this up, but I'm proud of him for not wallowing in self-pity. His SA is Thursday of next week so we'll hopefully get some answers. He's willing to go to a urologist or any other doctor that can figure out WTF happened. 
In other news, we've been reviewing the new COVID protocols in school for the last two days and my head is about to explode. Thank goodness I am done with shots so I can have a glass of wine tonight. 

acleverusername

@kiki047 🤣🤣🤣at though of putting the specimen in the vajoola for preservation

@inthewoods23 that a REALLY GOOD AFC! FX for good SA results. 

@emeraldduchess still praying for your embies and hoping the clinic call soon. Also, good for YH! Men can be elaborate when it comes to self-pity. 

inthewoods23

@kiki047 @acleverusername maybe I can seal it all in my menstrual cup and shove in my hooha for the car ride HAHA 

inthewoods23

I forgot to add when I posted my appointment update. When they were walking me back to the US room, There was an area off to the side where I caught a glimpse of a sign that says "2020 Goals: 1000 pregnancies". At first I was like omg how do you have 1000 patients every year. Then I remembered this fertility center has like, 8 locations across 3 states.  That seems a little more reasonable now.

acleverusername

Speaking of menstrual cups, today I forgot that just because they _could_ be worn for up to 12 hours, they shouldn't. Argh. 

emeraldduchess

AF showed up already, 5 days after my retrieval. I was not expecting that and I can't use tampons for another two days. Greeeaaaaattt....

emeraldduchess

The lab just called. 
*TW*

None of our embryos made it to freeze/biopsy. The doctor now thinks it's an issue with both DH and I. We have to schedule a follow up with the RE but I don't know if I can go through all this again. I know success on the first cycle is rare but how many times is it going to take for us? And do we even have time?

gingermama29

@emeraldduchess I'm so sorry friend. Sending so many hugs