@kbamomma33thank you for your clarification, and for sharing your opinion. Thoughtful discussion can go a long way in understanding both sides.
I must admit, and I'm truly not attacking you, that it doesn't make me comfortable to hear that you believe you need a semi-automatic weapon to have even a chance of hitting an intruder. I'm positive you're not the only one who feels that way, and to know there are people (collective people, not you in particular) who have possession of these weapons and can potentially fire them at will in response to any perceived threat -- I mean, that's scary. What happens if someone on the street sees a crime and decides to shoot 18 times (because they can!) missing on all but one of those shots?
I guess there is literally no reason I personally will ever be ok with civilians owning guns. I know there is a gun culture and plenty of responsible owners, but to me the risks FAR outweigh any benefit.
@Kbamomma33 I truly appreciate people willing to discuss hot-button issues like this, THANK YOU for speaking out with a logical discussion on your thoughts on this issue despite the majority appearing to think differently. I should have spoken more clearly in my initial post about semi-automatic weapons, I personally have an issue with semi-automatic rifles in particular, less so with handguns. BUT incoming...
I respect handguns and have enjoyed shooting them myself for target practice. I've even considered owning one. However, the thought of handguns in other people's homes, my kid's future friends, kind of terrifies me. Like @kmalls, it is not comforting to me that you feel you'd need all 18 shots from you handgun to stop an intruder. To me, and I genuinely do not mean to be abrasive and offensive, that means you need more training and practice. THIS is why handguns scare me. The potential for easy access to a weapon that 1. the owners may not be as trained or practiced with use as they should be or WORST YET 2. carelessness with gun safety in the home (we hear stories daily about toddlers getting a hold of guns and shooting someone).
How do you resolve those issues? Training, practice, and proper gun safety? No background checks or processes in place ensure that all gun owners act responsibly... this to me is terrifying and I don't know what the answer is. I'm not a proponent of complete gun bans... but I have no idea how to make the world safer for my kids.
DS: EDD, December 19th, 2014. Born, December 19th, 2014! DD: EDD, July 18th, 2016. Born, July 19th, 2016!
I don't know if @kbamomma33 was speaking rhetorically when she said she'd probably need all 18 bullets to stop an intruder, but I think it's fair to say that even with a great amount of training and practice, you may need more than one trying to shoot someone in the dark and with the huge effect of adrenaline.
When guns are so pervasive in our culture and so easily accessible to anyone who wants to do us harm, I literally lose sleep at night worrying about someone coming into our home with one and harming my children - the power dynamic changes completely when someone has a gun. For this reason, we have (one) gun for self protection. Thankfully we have never had occasion to shoot it (other than at a range), but if I ever did need to use it to protect my family in my home I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
(Do I think you should be able to own any type of assault rifle? Hell no. In an ideal culture do I think citizens would own guns? Probably not, but in ours so many of them do and unringing that bell from a constitutional standpoint seems very difficult/unlikely to me.)
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Count me in with you ladies who are very uncomfortable with the prevalence of guns in this country. And I mean that prevalence in all spheres.
1.) I'm uncomfortable with even the narrow legality of automatic weapons. They used to be totally banned, but now you can get them with a special license. WHY?? Why is it necessary for anyone to have this piece of technology? It just makes it easier for them to get passed around to people who shouldn't.
2.) Even semi-automatic and "regular" guns need to be wayyyyyy more regulated. It's INSANE that we give guns to people with a history of violence, domestic abuse, mental illness, and watch-list status. And Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws in the country. You don't even need a license to have a gun. What the actual hell. How is that reasonable? (https://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-concealed-weapon-machine-guns-all-legal-nevada-675310).
3.) But I'm not even convinced regulation is enough. I know there are lots of well-trained, licensed, cool-headed people with guns in this country. @kbamomma33 may very well be one of them. But there are also idiots, careless people, people with mental illnesses, hot-heads, people with bad judgment, people who get drunk while carrying their guns, people whose eyesight or reasoning has deteriorated since they got their gun, and so on. And it's terrifying to me that when I go into people's homes, I have no idea which ones of those people have guns in their attic, under their mattress, or for all I know, under the couch I'm sitting on. Once I have a child, that prospect gets even more terrifying. The number of children who get hurt or killed because of LEGAL guns in people's homes is heartbreaking. And I know someone will say, "Commonsense safety measures will always prevent an accident," but not everyone is commonsense or responsible, and how am I supposed to know which people are being 100% responsible when I don't even know which people have guns in the first place?? And I have a hard time with the home defense argument because of how rare violent home invasion actually is, and how much more likely people are to accidentally hurt their own families. I know I'm lucky to live in a peaceful neighborhood, but I just can't access that level of fear that someone is going to come into my home in the middle of the night, knowing I'm in there, and try to harm me. That happens on Law & Order, but not in real life. Sure, people break a window when you're gone and take your TV. But someone coming in who doesn't want your stuff but specifically wants to hurt you and your family? I've never seen a local news story about an incident like that. That's just not how murder/rape happen. And I think if you're really worried about home invasion, you need to take a lot of courses and do a lot of practice to prepare for and handle that situation with a regular weapon, rather than assuming you'll panic and relying on a wild spray of 18 bullets. I shouldn't be able to take grenades into the woods just because I'm afraid I'll panic in the face of a bear. If I'm going into the bear-zone, I should be fully trained on how to handle that situation grenade-free.
4.) The self-defense argument scares me even more outside of the home. I don't want civilians in the streets with guns who think they have the authority to intervene in sudden situations. The POLICE can't even get it right--they shot and killed Tamir Rice for having a TOY GUN. So, no, I don't want JoeBob Yahoo thinking he can make those kinds of calls on the street. I grant you that in the hypothetical situation where someone is shooting up a plaza, it would be nice if someone could kill that guy and save lives. But that never happens, because a.) most of us don't have guns, and b.) those situations are completely chaotic. And let's imagine that we did all have guns. Then 30 people are firing in a crowded place, trying/hoping to hit the shooter? No thank you. The shooter in Las Vegas was 32 floors up and un-hittable. I'm beyond thankful that scared people in the crowd didn't just start shooting in the direction they thought the shots were coming from. The reality is that most people in the world who fire their guns aren't saving lives, they're taking them. So why don't we... I don't know... just get rid of the guns??
@kbamomma33thank you for your clarification, and for sharing your opinion. Thoughtful discussion can go a long way in understanding both sides.
I must admit, and I'm truly not attacking you, that it doesn't make me comfortable to hear that you believe you need a semi-automatic weapon to have even a chance of hitting an intruder. I'm positive you're not the only one who feels that way, and to know there are people (collective people, not you in particular) who have possession of these weapons and can potentially fire them at will in response to any perceived threat -- I mean, that's scary. What happens if someone on the street sees a crime and decides to shoot 18 times (because they can!) missing on all but one of those shots?
I guess there is literally no reason I personally will ever be ok with civilians owning guns. I know there is a gun culture and plenty of responsible owners, but to me the risks FAR outweigh any benefit.
@Kbamomma33 I truly appreciate people willing to discuss hot-button issues like this, THANK YOU for speaking out with a logical discussion on your thoughts on this issue despite the majority appearing to think differently. I should have spoken more clearly in my initial post about semi-automatic weapons, I personally have an issue with semi-automatic rifles in particular, less so with handguns. BUT incoming...
I respect handguns and have enjoyed shooting them myself for target practice. I've even considered owning one. However, the thought of handguns in other people's homes, my kid's future friends, kind of terrifies me. Like @kmalls, it is not comforting to me that you feel you'd need all 18 shots from you handgun to stop an intruder. To me, and I genuinely do not mean to be abrasive and offensive, that means you need more training and practice. THIS is why handguns scare me. The potential for easy access to a weapon that 1. the owners may not be as trained or practiced with use as they should be or WORST YET 2. carelessness with gun safety in the home (we hear stories daily about toddlers getting a hold of guns and shooting someone).
How do you resolve those issues? Training, practice, and proper gun safety? No background checks or processes in place ensure that all gun owners act responsibly... this to me is terrifying and I don't know what the answer is. I'm not a proponent of complete gun bans... but I have no idea how to make the world safer for my kids.
@kmalls and @ladythrice In response to the bolder, it's clear to me that I should have phrased what I meant here a little better. (Neither of you have offended me or come off as abrasive FWIW.) My husband and I have been gun owners for 10 years. We are both well versed in gun safety and went through gun safety courses before even making the decision to purchase guns for defense in our home. In addition, we are experienced in the use of our handguns and regularly shoot them in controlled, indoor and outdoor shooting range environments. None of that, however, could prepare someone for possibly having to shoot an actual person in self defense. Having to choose, "Do I shoot and kill this intruder, (an actual real, live, person) or not, and risk them shooting and killing me or my child?" is a lot of pressure and a scary decision that I hope that I never have to make. Beyond personal experience in a combat type situation, I'm not sure if there is anything more that I could do to prepare for actually being in that position. It does comfort me that, if I did miss an intruder out of nervousness due to the seriousness of the situation, (not due to my own inexperience or unfamiliarity with handling my own weapon) that I would have more than enough chances as a contingency to protect my family. Not that I am actually so bad at handling my weapon that I need 18 chances to hit a target one time. I can see how my wording could have led to that interpretation though. Not what I meant at all.
@kmalls Though your opinion is different than mine, I respect it and want to thank you for your thoughtful response. It's your right to feel the way that you do and, objectively, I agree that your concerns are certainly valid. As for shooting at a crime in the street and missing, that equals being an idiot to me and I don't support it. I support home defense, in your own home. That's it. Anywhere else, call the police. That's what they are there for. As I said, the point of my post before was to clarify terminology and not to start a debate of any sort though.
@ladythrice As a mother, your concerns about gun safety in the home hit home with me too. We personally use biometric gun safes that are programmed to only open with the touch of our individual handprints. We got these as a precaution before I had DD. The inability to know if everyone else is exercising proper gun safety in their homes, and how this relates to the safety of children, is a concerning issue for me as well.
This is truly is a very layered and concerning problem and I'll agree that it's difficult to come up with a solution that feels safe and agreeable to everyone. I'm thankful for the opportunity to have a respectful conversation about that here.
@JJMNO1616 There used to be a way better emoji pull down selection on TB several years ago, but it got removed by the BGs. After that happened, some people figured out how to just type the emojis that were on the pull down menu and we're sharing it around.
@kbamomma33 I really appreciate your perspective. It sounds like you are as responsible as they come. I hope my post didn't offend you--I'm mostly afraid of the many people out there who aren't so sensible, and I feel we need much better ways of curtailing their ability to shoot things.
History (TW/loss/child):
7/2017 -- miscarriage at 6w 5/2018 -- DS born 3 days after due date, 8lb 4oz 9/2020 -- missed miscarriage at 9w / DNC 3/2021 -- miscarriage at 8w 7/2021 -- missed miscarriage at 8w / DNC 9/2021 -- IVF cycle #1 (FET 1/25/22)
Yeah I really can't be diplomatic about this. No one needs a semi-automatic gun for self defense in the off chance the boogieman invades your home. Someone's irrational fear of an intruder shouldn't trump my very rational fear of a semi-automatic weapon in the hands of people who wish to inflict a ton of harm within minutes. So many lives are lost because we allow a vocal minority to dictate our gun policy in this country.
I literally started sobbing over the reports of cell phones ringing over and over again on the victims. In 20 years that can be our kids at a concert or even 5 years from now in an elementary school. It's not okay. It has to change.
Yeah I really can't be diplomatic about this. No one needs a semi-automatic gun for self defense in the off chance the boogieman invades your home. Someone's irrational fear of an intruder shouldn't trump my very rational fear of a semi-automatic weapon in the hands of people who wish to inflict a ton of harm within minutes. So many lives are lost because we allow a vocal minority to dictate our gun policy in this country.
I literally started sobbing over the reports of cell phones ringing over and over again on the victims. In 20 years that can be our kids at a concert or even 5 years from now in an elementary school. It's not okay. It has to change.
With all due respect, @julzy, you don't know my family's circumstances and cannot say that our fear of an intruder is irrational. It's not. There are a variety of factors that can make people more at risk of being targeted and several of them apply to us; I do not want to put my children at risk because of choices I have made and my husband has made.
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I'm a survivor of domestic violence and lived in fear my abuser was going to come back at any time despite the order of protection I had. He was in the military and had access to assault weapons. I got an alarm system. I kept a phone by my bed and planned exit plans. It never crossed my mind to ever get a gun. That being said, I'm fine if someone wants a hand gun as long as they pass a background check and have no history or record of violence or mental illness and they keep that gun in a lock box. An assault rifle or semi automatic gun is a whole other animal though.
EDIT: and again a person's fear of a home invasion isn't reason alone for public policy. Public policy should be about the health and safety of the many. The fact is more of us are at risk when these guns are legally accessible.
I live in a very gun obsessed state (so much so that we periodically don't have to have license to carry AT ALL, open or concealed).
Quite frankly, the mythos that you need a semi-automatic weapon to fend off some burgular SWAT team is partially caused by owning a gun. It is a known psychological phenomenon that owning a weapon makes you think everyone else has one and will use it on you. Guns make you feel less safe.
Also, I think it is pretty obvious that we are all not talking about a semi-automatic handgun in this thread. I personally don't like them, but nobody thinks handguns when they think about making an extremely high body count. They think rifles and machine guns. Neither of which has any business in civilian hands. I think it is a strawman argument to say "you just don't understand the definition of semi-automatic because handguns can be that". Ok? Not what anyone in the room was referring to.
Also, honestly, it's really fucking sad that we live in a country where people think they need a semi to protect their children. Most other first world countries don't even remotely live with that fear. The fact that we do is pathetic.
@ngolimento I completely agree; if I lived in a different country - a European one, for example - I also wouldn't feel the need to own a gun.
@julzy, I'm truly sorry to hear you were a victim of domestic violence. I had a somewhat similar experience with a different personal outcome. I had a stalker in college. It was not anyone I ever knew or dated; it was nothing that I did to invite. He just lived in my apartment complex and for whatever reason became randomly fixated on me. It was a year of my life where I was constantly in fear, felt I had no control over my safety or my privacy and I have never felt more powerless in my life.
I realize there are plenty of things you can do to regain a feeling of power other than own a gun, and I have done lots of them. I went to law school and have volunteered extensively at a rape crisis center and local women's shelter. I know you didn't intend this, but being told that I have an "irrational" fear of the "boogieman" are both serious triggers for anyone who has been victimized by a stalker - my concerns were dismissed as such by police until the situation escalated severely. So even if you disagree about a person's right to own a gun, please don't make an unjustified judgment about my fear being "irrational." It's just not fair.
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@lindsye I'm so sorry for your experience. Being a victim of stalking or violence is truly terrifying and I've personally helped victims of stalking during my own recovery. I'm a lawyer too actually.
However, to be clear, I never said I disagree with a person's right to own a gun. I just don't think that right should extend to semi automatic weapons and I think that background checks and prohibitions on gun access to anyone with a history of violence or severe mental illness is more than reasonable. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and it should at be very least be drawn there.
Again, this may sound harsh but I do think it's irrational to think you need a semi automatic weapon to protect yourself because a regular handgun just wouldn't do. That has nothing to do with your experience. I say that as someone who literally fought for my life multiple times while my abuser tried to strangle me. And yes, I had a lot of people downplay what happened to me as well. I'm truly sorry that you felt triggered by my words. But I felt pretty shaken by your explanation of feeling like you need to shoot off 18 rounds with the flick of a finger to fend off an intruder...that's pretty scary to me.
And I'm feeling pretty triggered today myself at the images coming out of Vegas and I'm probably not being as careful with my choice of words as I normally would be. I literally stayed at Mandalay Bay with my 2 year old a little over a week ago. I'm furious that we've allowed this to happen over and over again and sick over the idea that this is the world my kids are living in... and I can't protect them from it, only our policy makers can and they refuse to act.
@sparklingdiamond we did the car shopping thing this weekend, and just decided on a Honda Odyssey. I'm super duper excited Congratulations on your new car!
@julzy then perhaps we actually agree - we own a regular handgun and I completely agree that extensive background checks should be done before anyone can own a gun. I never said I needed 18 rounds to fend off an intruder - that was someone else.
Thank you for your kind words about my past experience, and I am so sorry for yours as well. I know how hard it is to move forward with something as traumatic as that in your past; I'm sorry that the events of today were particularly difficult for you for that reason.
And I think what began this dialogue on this board today bears repeating, something we all seem to agree upon: no citizen should be allowed to amass the armory of weapons and ammunition that the shooter had, apparently even automatic ones. Yes, great harm can be done with a single weapon but the magnitude of harm this man was able to accomplish by himself seems like something we can and should be able to prevent. It may be a difficult thing to regulate, but it should still be done - even at great effort and expense - to prevent events like the ones of today from happening again.
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Appreciate it @lindsye. Yes my whole point is about automatic and semi automatic weapons. That comment above was what I was initially responding to when I talked about the boogieman. It was the person who said she needed 18 rounds to protect herself from a potential home invasion. I think we both got confused but do agree it seems we're on the same page on this one!
@lindsye@julzy I'm so sorry to hear the both of you ladies had to deal with those situations.
@lindsye I'm a mental health therapist and it's still so confusing/mind boggling for me how people become so delusional and fixated like that on someone they don't know.
Thank you, @JJMNO1616. I honestly don't understand it either. I would say it has made me paranoid but it doesn't even feel like paranoia after that experience.
It's very cool that you're a mental health therapist; I'm sure you've had a huge positive impact on many people's lives. I considered that career path as well and very much admire the work that you do.
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Coming from Canada, I was really unfamiliar with the gun culture until I moved in the Us and started hearing parents saying they ask their kid's friend's parents if they keep guns inside the house before allowing their child to go play over at their house. I'm obviously not there yet as my son is only 15 months but I don't think I would feel comfortable in that situation but I would also feel incredibly rude asking. As a former teacher I was incredibly traumatized by the Sandy Hook shooting and I know it will be nerve wrecking when my kids goes to school. I do not like that climate at all
@lindsye I'm so sorry for your experience. Being a victim of stalking or violence is truly terrifying and I've personally helped victims of stalking during my own recovery. I'm a lawyer too actually.
However, to be clear, I never said I disagree with a person's right to own a gun. I just don't think that right should extend to semi automatic weapons and I think that background checks and prohibitions on gun access to anyone with a history of violence or severe mental illness is more than reasonable. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and it should at be very least be drawn there.
Again, this may sound harsh but I do think it's irrational to think you need a semi automatic weapon to protect yourself because a regular handgun just wouldn't do. That has nothing to do with your experience. I say that as someone who literally fought for my life multiple times while my abuser tried to strangle me. And yes, I had a lot of people downplay what happened to me as well. I'm truly sorry that you felt triggered by my words. But I felt pretty shaken by your explanation of feeling like you need to shoot off 18 rounds with the flick of a finger to fend off an intruder...that's pretty scary to me.
And I'm feeling pretty triggered today myself at the images coming out of Vegas and I'm probably not being as careful with my choice of words as I normally would be. I literally stayed at Mandalay Bay with my 2 year old a little over a week ago. I'm furious that we've allowed this to happen over and over again and sick over the idea that this is the world my kids are living in... and I can't protect them from it, only our policy makers can and they refuse to act.
Listen, I want to first make it clear that I'm sorry that you have had such close experience with violence in your life. I also want to empathize with the feelings that you must have as a mother, just recently having stayed at the same hotel with your child. Additionally, I want to point out that, most likely, everyone in this country is also very triggered by the images coming out of vegas today. As I have said already, it was a senseless and horrific act.
The notion that we have "allowed this to happen again," doesn't apply to this particular incident. The shooter last night was using fully automatic weapons. As I stated in my post for clarity purposes, those types of weapons are alreadyillegal in this country. So, more gun control would not have prevented the vegas shootings. Dude was already doing illegal stuff and was in possession of weapons that are already illegal. Independently of yesterday's shooting, if someone feels that we need more gun control in this country, that is their absolute right as an autonomous, free thinking individual and I respect that opinion, though it does differ from my own. It doesn't make sense to tie the two together though.
As for "a regular handgun" just not doing it and needing a semi automatic handgun-- again, as I tried to explain in my post, essentially all "regular handguns" are semi automatic, with the exception of single action revolvers, which you do have to cock with each bullet and, are not widely produced anymore. So, when you are talking about regular handguns, that is inclusive of semi automatic handguns because you need to pull the trigger each time a bullet comes out. Semi automatic is one bullet for one trigger pull.
I absolutely did not say that I "need to shoot off 18 rounds with the flick of a finger to protect myself." That is sensationalizing what I said and a major misquote of my explaination and subsequent clarification. I really don't think you even read my post for understanding, because there's no way you could have if that's all you took away from it.
I'm also not a fan of anyone, not just you, implying that it is sad or irrational to feel comforted by a personal defense arm in their home. You, or anyone else, do not get to decide what is or is not a valid experience, circumstance, or downplay a fear for anyone other than yourself. There is no way for you to know everyone's experience or living conditions and then determine that you have the authority to make the judgement call about what is or isn't rational for someone else to think. To me, that phrasing borders on disrespect and hurts the credibility of anything that comes after. If it's a moral or safety issue that someone has that they feel would be solved by more gun control, fine. Just plain old difference of opinion, fine. Saying someone with a different point of view is irrational, not fine. Valid arguments can and should be be conveyed factually, articulately, and respectfully.
Though I did quote you, some of my response is also in reference to other things that have been mentioned on this thread, so I certainly don't want you to feel like I'm singling you out or anything. As I said, my point was just to provide information and clarify as needed. I feel like I've done that as effectively as possible and don't have anything else to add on this topic.
Again, I don't think it's irrational to have a gun. I may personally disagree with it but if you passed a background check and don't have a history of violence or mental illness and keep your gun in a lockbox, fine. But I do draw the line at automatic and semi automatic weapons. I've read your posts and I simply disagree with them because I don't think your desire to have them negates my desire to not lose a loved one in a mass shooting. Mass shootings like Vegas are not as easy where a shooter is slowed down and has to cock back for each bullet. I also think we should have limits on magazines so that someone has to stop and reload more frequently.
I don't think anyone other than law enforcement needs access to an automatic or semi automatic gun, period. And yes, I don't think self defense for an intruder is a valid argument for access to semi automatic and automatic weapons. I'm sorry if you find that disrespectful.
Aaaaaaaaaaargh, omfg! My phone didn't show at incoming call from the doctor and I missed my Harmony results! I restarted my phone tonight and it immediately showed a voicemail from like 2pm. And of course they didn't give me my results via voicemail! I'm dyyyyyyiiiiing.
A little late to the conversation, but I wanted to say that mass shootings happen with a terrifying regularity in our country. Even kids in schools aren’t safe, and it’s a f*cking disgrace, it really shouldn’t be this way. I wish responsible gun owners would speak up to how bad things are here and would offer ideas about common sense gun control. I think that drives me crazy more than anything. Can we please admit there’s a problem? Can we try to come up with solutions? Can we do something, anything, for our kids? I just wish we could start taking action on this, but I’m not too optimistic since there was no real action after Sandy Hook. I’m so scared that someday someone I know will be a victim. And don’t even get me started on the idea that this is really a mental health crisis when the current administration is fighting tooth and nail to take health care away from millions.
A little late to the conversation, but I wanted to say that mass shootings happen with a terrifying regularity in our country. Even kids in schools aren’t safe, and it’s a f*cking disgrace, it really shouldn’t be this way. I wish responsible gun owners would speak up to how bad things are here and would offer ideas about common sense gun control. I think that drives me crazy more than anything. Can we please admit there’s a problem? Can we try to come up with solutions? Can we do something, anything, for our kids? I just wish we could start taking action on this, but I’m not too optimistic since there was no real action after Sandy Hook. I’m so scared that someday someone I know will be a victim. And don’t even get me started on the idea that this is really a mental health crisis when the current administration is fighting tooth and nail to take health care away from millions.
Oh, they do speak up and offer solutions. Their solutions are almost always "Moar Gunz!". For example, after Sandy Hook, many NRA goons foamed at the mouth over how teachers should be armed and trained to shoot. You know, because making schools into a warzone is always a great idea, and bullets never ricochet and teachers have gobs of time for training, and are paid more than enough to shoulder this as well as the job they are barely paid for!!!
Oh, they do speak up and offer solutions. Their solutions are almost always "Moar Gunz!". For example, after Sandy Hook, many NRA goons foamed at the mouth over how teachers should be armed and trained to shoot. You know, because making schools into a warzone is always a great idea, and bullets never ricochet and teachers have gobs of time for training, and are paid more than enough to shoulder this as well as the job they are barely paid for!!!
As a teacher, I'd like to chime in and say that if they can't even pay us for proper training in the curriculum we teach, they surely will never properly train us in "gun safety". I will admit though that after Sandy Hook, I considered keeping a baseball bat in my classroom because WTF else am I supposed to do to protect my babies? Clarification: I know that the likelihood of an active shooter in any given school is super low...but still. SMH.
@keeksie84 I have a lot of teachers in my family, and the amount they are paid is laughable. The right wing is so intensely focused on garroting education and they are paid so little. It boggles my mind that the NRA wants them to do double-duty on an already insulting salary. You can't keep defunding and then turn around and demand more services. It's so stupid.
@Sissy42 dude. We got our Odyssey this summer. I'm obsessed. Its ridiculous. I'm an SUV lover, but practical when it comes to three kids, 3 and under... and lets be honest, you can't beat the damn minivan. I love the stupid thing.
DS: EDD, December 19th, 2014. Born, December 19th, 2014! DD: EDD, July 18th, 2016. Born, July 19th, 2016!
Total change of subject: Has anyone been experiencing hair loss this pregnancy? I swear, with the last two kiddos my hair looked awesome and my skin was perfection, and this time I'm breaking out everywhere and my hair is falling out. So much for the glow!
@sissy42 I finally stopped losing hair so fast after I got pregnant! I'm with you on the acne though - it hasn't gotten any better and I'm not sure what to do about it.
@Sissy42 with DD I lost a lot of hair. Towards the end my hairline had receeded like an inch and half maybe 2! I was the only one who noticed until it started growing back and it was too shirt to pin down. It stuck straight up for like a month, I had to get one of those headbands you wear when working out. It was finally starting to look ok and now I'm preggo's again.
I ended up having to order clothes online because there are no stores in my area that sell maternity...and NOTHING fits!!! I had to return to Target, which was easy because we have a store, but I now I have to return to old navy, which I have to mail back in. I absolutely hate that I have to dress up for my job. With my last pregnancy I was able to wear jeans to work, so I just bought a belly band and wore my regular jeans everyday. Not so lucky this time
@dlammers - I feel your pain! I hate shopping, and the only local store with maternity is Target (who didn’t have jack). I am one who has to try stuff on, so I took my bestie on a road trip 2 hours away. Went to Motherhood Maternity and found enough to get me started at least. For a fairly large city, I was disappointed that only Macy’s had a section (and it was Motherhood Maternity brand lol). Hopefully you don’t have to return any more - it is a hassle!
Yeah there is a Motherhood Maternity store a couple hours away from me too. I got a couple things from there already, but may have to stop again sometime.
Re: Weekly Randoms 10/2
I respect handguns and have enjoyed shooting them myself for target practice. I've even considered owning one. However, the thought of handguns in other people's homes, my kid's future friends, kind of terrifies me. Like @kmalls, it is not comforting to me that you feel you'd need all 18 shots from you handgun to stop an intruder. To me, and I genuinely do not mean to be abrasive and offensive, that means you need more training and practice. THIS is why handguns scare me. The potential for easy access to a weapon that 1. the owners may not be as trained or practiced with use as they should be or WORST YET 2. carelessness with gun safety in the home (we hear stories daily about toddlers getting a hold of guns and shooting someone).
How do you resolve those issues? Training, practice, and proper gun safety? No background checks or processes in place ensure that all gun owners act responsibly... this to me is terrifying and I don't know what the answer is. I'm not a proponent of complete gun bans... but I have no idea how to make the world safer for my kids.
DS: EDD, December 19th, 2014. Born, December 19th, 2014!
DD: EDD, July 18th, 2016. Born, July 19th, 2016!
Baby #3: EDD, April 16th, 2016
When guns are so pervasive in our culture and so easily accessible to anyone who wants to do us harm, I literally lose sleep at night worrying about someone coming into our home with one and harming my children - the power dynamic changes completely when someone has a gun. For this reason, we have (one) gun for self protection. Thankfully we have never had occasion to shoot it (other than at a range), but if I ever did need to use it to protect my family in my home I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
(Do I think you should be able to own any type of assault rifle? Hell no. In an ideal culture do I think citizens would own guns? Probably not, but in ours so many of them do and unringing that bell from a constitutional standpoint seems very difficult/unlikely to me.)
1.) I'm uncomfortable with even the narrow legality of automatic weapons. They used to be totally banned, but now you can get them with a special license. WHY?? Why is it necessary for anyone to have this piece of technology? It just makes it easier for them to get passed around to people who shouldn't.
2.) Even semi-automatic and "regular" guns need to be wayyyyyy more regulated. It's INSANE that we give guns to people with a history of violence, domestic abuse, mental illness, and watch-list status. And Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws in the country. You don't even need a license to have a gun. What the actual hell. How is that reasonable? (https://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-concealed-weapon-machine-guns-all-legal-nevada-675310).
3.) But I'm not even convinced regulation is enough. I know there are lots of well-trained, licensed, cool-headed people with guns in this country. @kbamomma33 may very well be one of them. But there are also idiots, careless people, people with mental illnesses, hot-heads, people with bad judgment, people who get drunk while carrying their guns, people whose eyesight or reasoning has deteriorated since they got their gun, and so on. And it's terrifying to me that when I go into people's homes, I have no idea which ones of those people have guns in their attic, under their mattress, or for all I know, under the couch I'm sitting on. Once I have a child, that prospect gets even more terrifying. The number of children who get hurt or killed because of LEGAL guns in people's homes is heartbreaking. And I know someone will say, "Commonsense safety measures will always prevent an accident," but not everyone is commonsense or responsible, and how am I supposed to know which people are being 100% responsible when I don't even know which people have guns in the first place?? And I have a hard time with the home defense argument because of how rare violent home invasion actually is, and how much more likely people are to accidentally hurt their own families. I know I'm lucky to live in a peaceful neighborhood, but I just can't access that level of fear that someone is going to come into my home in the middle of the night, knowing I'm in there, and try to harm me. That happens on Law & Order, but not in real life. Sure, people break a window when you're gone and take your TV. But someone coming in who doesn't want your stuff but specifically wants to hurt you and your family? I've never seen a local news story about an incident like that. That's just not how murder/rape happen. And I think if you're really worried about home invasion, you need to take a lot of courses and do a lot of practice to prepare for and handle that situation with a regular weapon, rather than assuming you'll panic and relying on a wild spray of 18 bullets. I shouldn't be able to take grenades into the woods just because I'm afraid I'll panic in the face of a bear. If I'm going into the bear-zone, I should be fully trained on how to handle that situation grenade-free.
4.) The self-defense argument scares me even more outside of the home. I don't want civilians in the streets with guns who think they have the authority to intervene in sudden situations. The POLICE can't even get it right--they shot and killed Tamir Rice for having a TOY GUN. So, no, I don't want JoeBob Yahoo thinking he can make those kinds of calls on the street. I grant you that in the hypothetical situation where someone is shooting up a plaza, it would be nice if someone could kill that guy and save lives. But that never happens, because a.) most of us don't have guns, and b.) those situations are completely chaotic. And let's imagine that we did all have guns. Then 30 people are firing in a crowded place, trying/hoping to hit the shooter? No thank you. The shooter in Las Vegas was 32 floors up and un-hittable. I'm beyond thankful that scared people in the crowd didn't just start shooting in the direction they thought the shots were coming from. The reality is that most people in the world who fire their guns aren't saving lives, they're taking them. So why don't we... I don't know... just get rid of the guns??
This rant brought to you by reading the profiles of victims in Las Vegas. Teachers. Moms. A woman whose husband died because he was shielding her. My heart is broken. (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/las-vegas-route-91-shooting-victims_us_59d235cde4b06791bb11d6b1?3a)
But as someone so wisely said, if we didn't draw a line at the mass shooting of elementary school kids, then we have already decided who we are.
5/2018 -- DS born 3 days after due date, 8lb 4oz
9/2020 -- missed miscarriage at 9w / DNC
3/2021 -- miscarriage at 8w
7/2021 -- missed miscarriage at 8w / DNC
9/2021 -- IVF cycle #1 (FET 1/25/22)
@kmalls Though your opinion is different than mine, I respect it and want to thank you for your thoughtful response. It's your right to feel the way that you do and, objectively, I agree that your concerns are certainly valid. As for shooting at a crime in the street and missing, that equals being an idiot to me and I don't support it. I support home defense, in your own home. That's it. Anywhere else, call the police. That's what they are there for. As I said, the point of my post before was to clarify terminology and not to start a debate of any sort though.
@ladythrice As a mother, your concerns about gun safety in the home hit home with me too. We personally use biometric gun safes that are programmed to only open with the touch of our individual handprints. We got these as a precaution before I had DD. The inability to know if everyone else is exercising proper gun safety in their homes, and how this relates to the safety of children, is a concerning issue for me as well.
This is truly is a very layered and concerning problem and I'll agree that it's difficult to come up with a solution that feels safe and agreeable to everyone. I'm thankful for the opportunity to have a respectful conversation about that here.
@JJMNO1616 There used to be a way better emoji pull down selection on TB several years ago, but it got removed by the BGs. After that happened, some people figured out how to just type the emojis that were on the pull down menu and we're sharing it around.
5/2018 -- DS born 3 days after due date, 8lb 4oz
9/2020 -- missed miscarriage at 9w / DNC
3/2021 -- miscarriage at 8w
7/2021 -- missed miscarriage at 8w / DNC
9/2021 -- IVF cycle #1 (FET 1/25/22)
I literally started sobbing over the reports of cell phones ringing over and over again on the victims. In 20 years that can be our kids at a concert or even 5 years from now in an elementary school. It's not okay. It has to change.
EDIT: and again a person's fear of a home invasion isn't reason alone for public policy. Public policy should be about the health and safety of the many. The fact is more of us are at risk when these guns are legally accessible.
Quite frankly, the mythos that you need a semi-automatic weapon to fend off some burgular SWAT team is partially caused by owning a gun. It is a known psychological phenomenon that owning a weapon makes you think everyone else has one and will use it on you. Guns make you feel less safe.
Also, I think it is pretty obvious that we are all not talking about a semi-automatic handgun in this thread. I personally don't like them, but nobody thinks handguns when they think about making an extremely high body count. They think rifles and machine guns. Neither of which has any business in civilian hands. I think it is a strawman argument to say "you just don't understand the definition of semi-automatic because handguns can be that". Ok? Not what anyone in the room was referring to.
Also, honestly, it's really fucking sad that we live in a country where people think they need a semi to protect their children. Most other first world countries don't even remotely live with that fear. The fact that we do is pathetic.
@julzy, I'm truly sorry to hear you were a victim of domestic violence. I had a somewhat similar experience with a different personal outcome. I had a stalker in college. It was not anyone I ever knew or dated; it was nothing that I did to invite. He just lived in my apartment complex and for whatever reason became randomly fixated on me. It was a year of my life where I was constantly in fear, felt I had no control over my safety or my privacy and I have never felt more powerless in my life.
I realize there are plenty of things you can do to regain a feeling of power other than own a gun, and I have done lots of them. I went to law school and have volunteered extensively at a rape crisis center and local women's shelter. I know you didn't intend this, but being told that I have an "irrational" fear of the "boogieman" are both serious triggers for anyone who has been victimized by a stalker - my concerns were dismissed as such by police until the situation escalated severely. So even if you disagree about a person's right to own a gun, please don't make an unjustified judgment about my fear being "irrational." It's just not fair.
However, to be clear, I never said I disagree with a person's right to own a gun. I just don't think that right should extend to semi automatic weapons and I think that background checks and prohibitions on gun access to anyone with a history of violence or severe mental illness is more than reasonable. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and it should at be very least be drawn there.
Again, this may sound harsh but I do think it's irrational to think you need a semi automatic weapon to protect yourself because a regular handgun just wouldn't do. That has nothing to do with your experience. I say that as someone who literally fought for my life multiple times while my abuser tried to strangle me. And yes, I had a lot of people downplay what happened to me as well. I'm truly sorry that you felt triggered by my words.
But I felt pretty shaken by your explanation of feeling like you need to shoot off 18 rounds with the flick of a finger to fend off an intruder...that's pretty scary to me.
And I'm feeling pretty triggered today myself at the images coming out of Vegas and I'm probably not being as careful with my choice of words as I normally would be. I literally stayed at Mandalay Bay with my 2 year old a little over a week ago. I'm furious that we've allowed this to happen over and over again and sick over the idea that this is the world my kids are living in... and I can't protect them from it, only our policy makers can and they refuse to act.
Thank you for your kind words about my past experience, and I am so sorry for yours as well. I know how hard it is to move forward with something as traumatic as that in your past; I'm sorry that the events of today were particularly difficult for you for that reason.
And I think what began this dialogue on this board today bears repeating, something we all seem to agree upon: no citizen should be allowed to amass the armory of weapons and ammunition that the shooter had, apparently even automatic ones. Yes, great harm can be done with a single weapon but the magnitude of harm this man was able to accomplish by himself seems like something we can and should be able to prevent. It may be a difficult thing to regulate, but it should still be done - even at great effort and expense - to prevent events like the ones of today from happening again.
@lindsye I'm a mental health therapist and it's still so confusing/mind boggling for me how people become so delusional and fixated like that on someone they don't know.
It's very cool that you're a mental health therapist; I'm sure you've had a huge positive impact on many people's lives. I considered that career path as well and very much admire the work that you do.
The notion that we have "allowed this to happen again," doesn't apply to this particular incident. The shooter last night was using fully automatic weapons. As I stated in my post for clarity purposes, those types of weapons are already illegal in this country. So, more gun control would not have prevented the vegas shootings. Dude was already doing illegal stuff and was in possession of weapons that are already illegal. Independently of yesterday's shooting, if someone feels that we need more gun control in this country, that is their absolute right as an autonomous, free thinking individual and I respect that opinion, though it does differ from my own. It doesn't make sense to tie the two together though.
As for "a regular handgun" just not doing it and needing a semi automatic handgun-- again, as I tried to explain in my post, essentially all "regular handguns" are semi automatic, with the exception of single action revolvers, which you do have to cock with each bullet and, are not widely produced anymore. So, when you are talking about regular handguns, that is inclusive of semi automatic handguns because you need to pull the trigger each time a bullet comes out. Semi automatic is one bullet for one trigger pull.
I absolutely did not say that I "need to shoot off 18 rounds with the flick of a finger to protect myself." That is sensationalizing what I said and a major misquote of my explaination and subsequent clarification. I really don't think you even read my post for understanding, because there's no way you could have if that's all you took away from it.
I'm also not a fan of anyone, not just you, implying that it is sad or irrational to feel comforted by a personal defense arm in their home. You, or anyone else, do not get to decide what is or is not a valid experience, circumstance, or downplay a fear for anyone other than yourself. There is no way for you to know everyone's experience or living conditions and then determine that you have the authority to make the judgement call about what is or isn't rational for someone else to think. To me, that phrasing borders on disrespect and hurts the credibility of anything that comes after. If it's a moral or safety issue that someone has that they feel would be solved by more gun control, fine. Just plain old difference of opinion, fine. Saying someone with a different point of view is irrational, not fine. Valid arguments can and should be be conveyed factually, articulately, and respectfully.
Though I did quote you, some of my response is also in reference to other things that have been mentioned on this thread, so I certainly don't want you to feel like I'm singling you out or anything. As I said, my point was just to provide information and clarify as needed. I feel like I've done that as effectively as possible and don't have anything else to add on this topic.
For reference:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-scary-turn-las-vegas-may-be-first-mass-shooting-using-an-automatic-weapon/2017/10/02/0b7e0a50-a79f-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html?utm_term=.959a6181fa70
Again, I don't think it's irrational to have a gun. I may personally disagree with it but if you passed a background check and don't have a history of violence or mental illness and keep your gun in a lockbox, fine. But I do draw the line at automatic and semi automatic weapons. I've read your posts and I simply disagree with them because I don't think your desire to have them negates my desire to not lose a loved one in a mass shooting. Mass shootings like Vegas are not as easy where a shooter is slowed down and has to cock back for each bullet. I also think we should have limits on magazines so that someone has to stop and reload more frequently.
I don't think anyone other than law enforcement needs access to an automatic or semi automatic gun, period. And yes, I don't think self defense for an intruder is a valid argument for access to semi automatic and automatic weapons. I'm sorry if you find that disrespectful.
DS: EDD, December 19th, 2014. Born, December 19th, 2014!
DD: EDD, July 18th, 2016. Born, July 19th, 2016!
Baby #3: EDD, April 16th, 2016
If I could figure out how the heck to put in a GIF I would... but major excitement over here.
Married: 2/1/2012
TTC #1 since August 2016
DH SA Dec 2016: Low count (11.7 mil total motile), 5% morphology, 73% motility
Blood work June 2017: AMH 1.1 (ugh), FSH 8.4, LH: 5.2, estradiol 28 pg/ML, progesterone 7.4
HSG July 2017: tubes clear
BFP 7/24/17 - EDD 4/5/2018