May 2017 Moms

UO 3/23

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Alright rainbows and butterflies, anyone have an ACTUAL uo?
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Re: UO 3/23

  • Alright, I'll start with a really weird one that came up at work recently. I don't think incest should be illegal in most cases- the only exception being if the parties involved are of the age/sex where there are physically capable of making a baby. Other than that, I don't think the government should decide what is morally acceptable for consenting adults to do. 

    To be clear- I am not saying it's not gross. It is gross (IMO). But I don't like moral policing. If you're not hurting anyone, you do you. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • @kayemjay2 Are you referring to cousins or like sister:brother or father:daughter? Or all of it?
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  • @Jens_Hoes - I guess all of it, as long as everyone is legally capable of consenting. Getting into the specifics definitely gives me the heeby jeebies. I am NOT pro any of it- it's more an example about my stance on the government deciding what is morally acceptable. 

    Sorry to start out the thread on a creepy note...haha.
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • Now I feel like I ruined this thread by bringing up incest...haha. I'm sorry- in my line of work, we come across scenarios like this surprisingly frequently and they often lead to heated legal debates in our office. 

    I'll amend it to say that I don't think morals and/or religion have any place in legislation. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • I guess I am curious now about what the law says about incest. Other than it being deemed illegal, what are the repercussions for it? I guess I am thinking about it a little bit like suicide. People don't go to jail for attempting it even though suicide is technically illegal. Do they for incest if they are adults?
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  • @kayemjay2 yeah.... Not going too much into a close friend's life, but I'm going to side with @Jens_Hoes on this one. Even with ages being legal, it's not a good situation. 


    My UO- I hate Bradford pear trees. With a passion. What's wrong with a good cherry tree, people? 
  • @vrj0522 - It's a state by state thing, but in my state, adult incest is punishable by 2-10 years in prison. That's what I have a problem with. It should definitely be a case by case basis- if there was a lack of consent, that's entirely different- as with all sexual relationships. I don't think prison time is warranted in all cases. It seems too similar to anti-sodomy laws (which weren't stuck down by the Supreme Court until 2003, insanely). It violates someone's religion or moral code, so consenting adults should go to prison? 

    @Jens_Hoes - That's a good point. It should definitely be a case-by-case basis, and if someone feels they were co-erced into anything (which would not be consensual in my book), they could choose to press charges. As it is, the state can step in and criminally prosecute simply based upon the existence of the relationship, which I disagree with. We just had that situation come up yesterday, which is why it's on my mind. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • I agree with the moral policing, BUT what about the harm incest could cause in regards to birth defects?
    Married 6/5/14 in Ireland
    1st Baby 5/12/17, Henry
  • @Squirtgun - I respect that and I'm sorry for your friend. It definitely is not a "good situation" in every situation...but that can be said for any relationship. However, in the scenario that arose yesterday, they were adult siblings who had not been raised together. They didn't meet until later in life and the woman was post-menopausal, so no chance of kids. I don't understand the reasoning for criminal prosecution in their case. Again, I'd argue it should be a case by case basis, not simply illegal because it makes people uncomfortable. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • kat81 said:
    kayemjay2 said:
    Alright, I'll start with a really weird one that came up at work recently. I don't think incest should be illegal in most cases- the only exception being if the parties involved are of the age/sex where there are physically capable of making a baby. Other than that, I don't think the government should decide what is morally acceptable for consenting adults to do. 

    To be clear- I am not saying it's not gross. It is gross (IMO). But I don't like moral policing. If you're not hurting anyone, you do you. 
    I'm not sure I could go as far as to agree with this, but this is a great UO. And I absolutely agree on moral policing. This is a great example to bring up in the moral part of my cross cultural psych class.

    I guess the counter to this idea is that you put offspring of such an arrangement at great risk genetically (at least for immediate family -- cousins are probably ok). But I agree, getting into the specifics is SUPER icky.
    I was going to say the same thing.  I do worry about the genetics part of it on top of it just being icky! I don't know the history of the laws of course but maybe that was part of the spirit of the law?
  • @kayemjay2 ok, now I'm super curious. How does that even end up going to court? Like, who is reporting this happening? Who even knows that they are related?  I'm so confused! 
  • @Squirtgun - It was the man's ex-girlfriend who reported it because she thought it was "wrong." I'm not sure how she knew about it. The police investigated, they admitted they're related, and the state moved forward with charges. I'm not sure what will happen going forward, but it just seemed like something they shouldn't be punished for and tax payer money shouldn't be spent prosecuting them when it doesn't seem as though there is a "victim."
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • My UO. If you support a regional university in sports, I think you should have to have gone to the school.  For instance, I went to law school with a guy from Georgia who was a huge (and obnoxious) UGA fan.  I just assumed he went there for undergrad.  Nope, he went to a smaller state school.  My SIL and BIL are also die hard UofM Gopher fans because they live in Minneapolis. Neither went to school there.  Now, I'm not a sports fan, but it just seems weird when you support a college that you didn't attend.  College loyalty seems like it should be tied to admission.

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  • @nda_roxybabe , @kat81 , and @rkstro2 - I agree with you re: genetics, which is why I specified that it should not be illegal IF the parties involved are of the age/sex that they cannot make a baby. In the case that came up yesterday, the woman was post-menopausal. If the parties are capable of reproduction, there could be a third party who is harmed, which would be a different scenario. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • @kayemjay2 that is truly an interesting question.  I guess I don't know the answer to that!  Seems like with crowded prisons that maybe those people shouldn't go to jail.  
  • kat81kat81 member
    kayemjay2 said:
    @nda_roxybabe , @kat81 , and @rkstro2 - I agree with you re: genetics, which is why I specified that it should not be illegal IF the parties involved are of the age/sex that they cannot make a baby. In the case that came up yesterday, the woman was post-menopausal. If the parties are capable of reproduction, there could be a third party who is harmed, which would be a different scenario. 
    In theory that would also get around the consent thing as well. If it's a 55 yr old post-menopausal woman and her 57 yr old brother then there is unlikely to be some weird power dynamic. Still extremely gross in my book but who are we to say they can't?

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  • @NotAPlaya-JustCrushAlot - I agree, I feel like it's embarrassing to be a die-hard fan of a college team when you didn't go to that college. I have family in Alabama, and pretty much everyone is either an Alabama fan or an Auburn fan...and it is an intense rivalry. I just can't respect that level of fandom for no reason. Then again, they don't have a pro team, so in a way, I get it. I don't know. I'm torn...hahah. I guess I don't care enough about football to "get" it. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • @NotAPlaya-JustCrushAlot um, I don't think we can be friends anymore. :o   I am a huge Lady Vols fan (Tennessee) but did not go to school there. For a lot of Tennessee girls, Pat Summit is a  role model. She came from nothing and made so much of her life, and affected so many people in such a good way!  But even setting aside my own personal hero worship, I think (especially in the south, maybe?) supporting a college's sports team is something you grow up with. I don't even understand how, honestly, because both my parents are from Brooklyn and somehow I'm still a huge Tennessee fan, just from friends and stuff at school! 
  • @Squirtgun  Well my UofM ILs are also Vols fans.  I judge that less since they never lived there.  I think it's the state-school association that bugs me.  Now that I live in AZ, I do have a preference between the top two state schools. But that preference is more based on my thoughts about the university (academics, campus, location) than sports because I don't do sports.

    Please be my friend.

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  • kat81kat81 member
    My UO. If you support a regional university in sports, I think you should have to have gone to the school.  For instance, I went to law school with a guy from Georgia who was a huge (and obnoxious) UGA fan.  I just assumed he went there for undergrad.  Nope, he went to a smaller state school.  My SIL and BIL are also die hard UofM Gopher fans because they live in Minneapolis. Neither went to school there.  Now, I'm not a sports fan, but it just seems weird when you support a college that you didn't attend.  College loyalty seems like it should be tied to admission.
    I have the same feeling about this and yet I violate it! The teams I care about are the ones at the schools I went to...hence my profile pic! haha. However, we live down the street from a school that is a strong in one of the bigtime televised sports and my husband also grew up in this neighborhood. The whole neighborhood (and to some degree the region/city we're near) rally with this school and support it. It was pretty amazing when they won a championship. They're also one of the few teams that is clean/wholesome -- no fudging of academics so the players pass their classes, no illegal recruiting, etc. So it feels good to support them.

    I feel like we're not violating much, though. I have some professional ties with people at this school and attend a weekly talk series there. I also have a gym membership there (they give it to people in our township for $25/year!) We are townies. It's not like my sister and her friends, who are OSU fans just because they live in the state of Ohio, but are like 2 hours from OSU. As a Michigan fan I'm especially not on board with that.

    Moreover, occasionally my other alma mater (not UM) actually plays my local school in the sport this local school is excellent at. I will always root for my alma mater in this case. And we'll lose the vast majority of the time. :)

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  • @kat81 Agreed! I am uncomfortable now and people are like "do you just wish youd have the baby already" or "I bet you cant wait to get that baby out". Nope, not at all. This baby is welcome to stay in until they need to come out (lets not be nuts and go beyond 41/42 weeks though). I can handle the uncomfortable-ness. I am thinking baby is not entirely comfy either.
    Married 6/5/14 in Ireland
    1st Baby 5/12/17, Henry
  • Married 6/5/14 in Ireland
    1st Baby 5/12/17, Henry
  • kat81kat81 member
    I think the *TW*s that go on seemingly everything these days are ridiculous.

    People basically use it as a preamble for anything negative and I don't get it. It is so vague and used so widely that how would someone with a sensitivity even know if it is going to pertain to them? It is the internet, if you really get that disturbed by things people say maybe public message boards aren't for you. 
    I 100% agree with this BECAUSE I think that trigger warnings are in fact important. They just have to be used properly and for the right things. A trigger warning is a warning in case of trauma. Like if you know your audience includes victims of PTSD or rape or something then something that will trigger that experience deserves a warning. But to use it for little things just causes people to ignore / disrespect all trigger warnings and get annoyed with them in general.

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  • @NotAPlaya-JustCrushAlot I am a huge Notre Dame Football fan, but I did not go there. I didn't have a 4.0 in high school... so there was no chance of me getting in without a sports scholarship or something! My family are all huge IU basketball fans and none of them went to IU. Maybe it depends on the part of the country you're from... it seems common in the midwest for people to be a fan of a school they didn't attend.
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  • onebadmothaonebadmotha member
    edited March 2017
    @BeachMommy2B , @NotAPlaya-JustCrushAlot - I definitely don't think this is any more common in the Midwest than elsewhere. It's super common everywhere. I went to the University of Florida (but now live in the Midwest), and it's definitely common among large SEC schools as well. It didn't necessarily bother me to meet Gator fans who weren't UF alums, but it's definitely awkward to run into Gator fans who didn't go the UF. I don't really know what to say to them....haha.

    Edited- wording 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


  • kayemjay2 said:
    @kat81 - Totally, 100% agree with you on convenience inductions. I will judge the sh*t out of anyone who posts about that in the upcoming weeks. I've actually been asked if I was scheduling a c-section so I could plan around this LO's birth. WTactualF? No. Just no. Same for people complaining and wanting baby to come early bc they are uncomfortable. You know what else is uncomfortable? Being a preemie/being born before you're fully cooked. Let the babies cook, people. 
    ugh.. yes. That's not to say I'm not ready for this to be done, because I am so over being uncomfortable and pregnant. However, I just want a healthy baby! I'm having a scheduled c-section this time due to the extremely traumatic vaginal birth I had with DD and it upsets me when people assume i'm doing it just to "plan it out".... no i'm having anxiety attacks about being cut open... however, I have less about that then the thought of going through what I went through with DD again.

    sorry that turned into a bit of a rant!
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  • I'm not sure where I stand on the sports teams. I grew up in a Michigan State family both sets of grandparents went there, and each generation after has had family go there. I personally didn't and if my alma mater is playing I will root for them but if they aren't I will always root for MSU as that's how I grew up. I'm not a big sports fan so I rarely watch, mostly join in for the social aspect, ohhhh tailgating and day drinking. 

    @kat81 I agree on the scheduled inductions for convenience, let babies cook, mother nature knows that she's doing. 


    Compared to the other UO mine is pretty tame. I know some are excited for a May birthstone, but I was born in May and absolutely hate it. It doesn't go well with others and having DH in November they are just ugly together. 

  • @SWE2 - Haha...I love the May birthstone specifically because I think it looks better with November's! DS1 is a November baby, and I want some little piece of jewelry with both boys' stones. Although someone (I don't recall who, sorry!) pointed out that they are basically John Deere colors, which slightly put a damper on things. Also, I hate pearls. 
    Fur daughter: 02/2011
    Human sons: 11/2015 & 05/2017
    *formerly kayemjay*


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