Okay ladies, STM here, but I wanted your opinions on your current LOs at home, and what was really nice to have completed by the time baby arrived.
Specifically, I'm wondering about transitioning from a crib to a toddler bed, or potty training, or other independent skills they can learn. It seems obvious to me that you'd want these things to be learned before the baby comes, if you're able to, but I'm wondering what your experiences have been??
Was it hard to make these transitions when you had a newborn around to care for? Or were you able to take it in stride and work around everyone's schedules? My LO is 18 mo now so potty training seems to be out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if I should get on her to move to a bed asap, or not. Thanks!!!
My son will be 23 months when my baby is born and all of the mothers that I've talked to have said to keep him in his crib for as long as possible because when you're busy with a newborn and a toddler you may want somewhere you can put him for a few minutes ! Also, it may take some time for him to get used to a bed and you don't want to find yourself up all night feeding a newborn and having a toddler crawling out of bed all night and wondering around.
Okay ladies, STM here, but I wanted your opinions on your current LOs at home, and what was really nice to have completed by the time baby arrived.
Specifically, I'm wondering about transitioning from a crib to a toddler bed, or potty training, or other independent skills they can learn. It seems obvious to me that you'd want these things to be learned before the baby comes, if you're able to, but I'm wondering what your experiences have been??
Was it hard to make these transitions when you had a newborn around to care for? Or were you able to take it in stride and work around everyone's schedules? My LO is 18 mo now so potty training seems to be out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if I should get on her to move to a bed asap, or not. Thanks!!!
My son will be 23 months when my baby is born and all of the mothers that I've talked to have said to keep him in his crib for as long as possible because when you're busy with a newborn and a toddler you may want somewhere you can put him for a few minutes ! Also, it may take some time for him to get used to a bed and you don't want to find yourself up all night feeding a newborn and having a toddler crawling out of bed all night and wondering around.
My second DD fell out of her crib on he very lowest setting trying to climb out at 22 months. She broke her wrist . I like trying to keep them in the crib as long as possible. But keep in mind some kids have other plans ( just get a feel for safety too!)
For STM+ who have registered on Amazon + BBB/BRU before, how did you choose what to put on the Amazon registry vs. the physical store one?
If Amazon offers it cheaper (and sometimes the price changes) I put it on the amazon registry. If the prices are the same, I put it on my BRU because of the kickback program being better than amazons. And I was moving things back and forth theiughout.
TTC x 1.5 years.
Acupuncture, Femera x3 cyles, and HSG. BFP in September 2014, DS born June 2015. TTC x2 months. BFP January 2017.
Happy Saturday ladies! How did you let family know when you were in labor? Did you tell them after you delivered so that they weren't waiting at the hospital, or did you tell them before hand if you were having a planned c-section, etc? I know everyone has a different preference and experience, I'm just eager to hear everyones story.
Me: 31 DH:35 TTC #1: March 2011 Fur-children: 3 dogs + 2 cats (all rescued) dx: Endometriosis and Fibroids 2 Laps and 1 Abdominal Myomectomy 6 rounds of clomid 5 rounds of iui IVF #1 Gonal F, Menopur and Cetrotide ER 12/1/2016:Retrieved 22 eggs 12 fertilized, developed moderate OHSS 4/4 day 5 embryos were normal for PGS!!! 2 boys/2 girls FET 1/10/2017 Gallbladder surgery 1/10/2017 FET 2/2 BFP 2/7/17 Beta#1: 594!!! Beta#2 1630!!! Having a girl! EDD 10/21/17
@ChocolateIsLife we did the same as @purplestars. We told everyone (being immediate family and my few best friends) but made it clear ahead of time we would let them know when we were ok with visitors. DD ended up being born in the middle of the night, so it wasn't an issue at all.
October 2017 June Siggy Challenge -- "You Had One Job!"
@ChocolateIsLife, we made it clear to family that we did not want anyone to come to the hospital until after the baby was born. Just my personal preference. The morning I started labouring, I called my mom and sister to tell them. Then once we were heading to the hospital, DH sent an email/text to the family members we wanted to tell. We ended up having a 30 hour labour and DH sent emails/texts periodically giving updates. I was so thankful no one came to the hospital as that would have been a long wait haha. Once DS was born, we called immediate family to announce and told them at that point what time we would welcome visitors. Everyone respected our wishes and didn't come until 4:30 (except my in laws who insisted we said 4pm - which wasn't a huge deal). We will be doing the same thing this time except that someone will come to our house to watch DS when we leave for the hospital.
I have questions about pumping & breastfeeding. 1) Do you start pumping before baby is born to get a stock? Can you & should you? I guess it depends on if your milk is in. (or how ever that works!)
2) How do you pick out a pump? I don't think they let you "try it out" and return it. What pumps do you recommend?
@nmingram -- hand pumps stink. Lol I had a nuk electric one and was fortunate enough to rent one for a few months because I was on WIC with my FB 7 years ago. Get one that has adjustable suction speeds. Read reviews. I really want that new Willow one since I am a teacher and will be back to work after a few weeks.
You really can't pump and save because your milk doesn't come in, most often, until after you have the baby. It ends up being colostrum. My milk took 7 days to come in. My poor son was allergic to a few of the formulas we used to supplement until my milk came in. I remember when it came in too.... I was crying my eyes out in the shower for failing as a breastfeeder and wanting so badly to be able to.... then BAM. It came in.
You shouldjoin a breast feeding support group, on fb or the free group hosted by the area hospital. It will be a game changer
@purplestars@beezeemarie@mommac2017 thank you guys for your response! I feel very similar in not wanting anyone there until we are ready. At my last appointment, I found out I will need a c-section, so we know it will be planned a week before our due date. The thought of people there just waiting in anticipation to come in kind of stresses me out, so I will need to find a gentle way to let them know.
Also, I know it is early, but I ordered my electric breast pump, since it is covered by insurance now. Not sure if everyone is aware of that but it is worth looking into to save some money. I went to yummymummy.com and chose mine. It has pretty great reviews so I'm excited to get that off my checklist!
Me: 31 DH:35 TTC #1: March 2011 Fur-children: 3 dogs + 2 cats (all rescued) dx: Endometriosis and Fibroids 2 Laps and 1 Abdominal Myomectomy 6 rounds of clomid 5 rounds of iui IVF #1 Gonal F, Menopur and Cetrotide ER 12/1/2016:Retrieved 22 eggs 12 fertilized, developed moderate OHSS 4/4 day 5 embryos were normal for PGS!!! 2 boys/2 girls FET 1/10/2017 Gallbladder surgery 1/10/2017 FET 2/2 BFP 2/7/17 Beta#1: 594!!! Beta#2 1630!!! Having a girl! EDD 10/21/17
I have a question about cars vs SUVs. any STM still have just have a four door car? Both of our cars our paid off - I have a Ford Fusion and DH has a truck for work, and we'd like to not have a car payment...how annoying is it to have car seat and other baby gear in a car? Totally sucky or totally doable?
@Uhlease13 We have a Prius and Equinox. We don't mind the Prius being smaller and use it a lot. We actually used it for a 9 hour road trip last summer bc it has excellent gas mileage. Since our son is a bit older, we got a used umbrella stroller to help save room. With our beach supplies, suitcases, sons toys and extra crap you need for a toddler, cooler for the road, and other random things. We still had room to spare! We will use our Equinox for larger transports like going to lowes or Home Depot.
Since we are having twins this time around, we will definitely need something bigger. I think we plan on keeping the Prius for the gas efficiency and bc it's newer and trading in the Equinox for something's bigger...a "family car".
@Uhlease13 I drive a small 4 door car. With one car seat, space hasn't been an issue at all. I'm considering upgrading to a crossover or SUV to make room for #2, but I have a lot of friends that manage 2 car seats in a car.
October 2017 June Siggy Challenge -- "You Had One Job!"
@Uhlease13 we did a four door sedan (a Chevy Impala) for almost 2 years with a baby. The biggest reason we ended up getting an SUV this past year is because our dog travels with us so much and we can easily put her in the cargo part of the SUV... not so much the trunk of the car or the bed of the truck.
If we didnt have the traveling dog issue it would have been no problem at all.
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I heart theSkimm I heart YNAB --------- “Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light." - Albus Dumbledore
I had a car when it was just DD. It was fine. Got a Ford explorer a few months ago when we knew we'd be expanding our family and I LOVE it. It's Def much easier with the car seat and extra room!!
I have a question about cars vs SUVs. any STM still have just have a four door car? Both of our cars our paid off - I have a Ford Fusion and DH has a truck for work, and we'd like to not have a car payment...how annoying is it to have car seat and other baby gear in a car? Totally sucky or totally doable?
@uhlease13 I also have a Ford Fusion and it hasn't been an issue at all. We have a fairly obnoxious sized carseat as well. We are a one car family and it's been fine. We will turn DS forward facing (since he will be 4yo) once this LO arrives and that will give us a little more space length wise.
We are planning to foster-to-adopt a couple years after this LO arrives so we will definitely need a larger car before then. Something with 3 rows would be so nice.
We have a charger and an xterra and probably will not be getting any new cars or trading in. The xterra will not fit 3 car seats but the charger will easily fit 3 seats in a row. The 6 year old will be getting a booster, and the 4 year old will be in a diono which is fairly narrow. We are currently searching for a narrow infant seat. Personally I did not find there was a space issue with one or even 2 car seats and kid crap. We will be very packed in with 3, but even then it's only about actual car seats and not really kid stuff. We easily fit a double stroller and spare diaper bag in the trunk with lots of extra room. The only thing that won't fit will be the dog.
I haul my 3 kids in a Chevy Sonic - two booster seats and a regular car seat. In the early years, when everyone was in full car seats, we always used our Chevy Trailblazer and had all 3 seats lined up in a row (and when traveling distances, had 2 large dogs in the back too). The Trailblazer is an SUV but the car seats pretty much lined up in the same way they are in the little car now. For safety in loading, we just loaded everyone from one side of the car and for the far seat, had to go around and strap in that child. Honestly, it was fine. Sure, it may have taken an extra minute to load everyone, but saving a few minutes per day was not worth an extra car payment to us. For baby 4, we will be getting a bigger car, unfortunately. (I am not a car enthusiast at all.)
*Siggy warning - loss mentioned* Preemie ID DDs; then DS; then natural M/C; now due 10/17 High risk for pre-term: weekly Makena injections
I have a question about cars vs SUVs. any STM still have just have a four door car? Both of our cars our paid off - I have a Ford Fusion and DH has a truck for work, and we'd like to not have a car payment...how annoying is it to have car seat and other baby gear in a car? Totally sucky or totally doable?
I had a Ford Taurus for my first who was born in January. I upgraded to an Explorer in April because I just couldn't handle getting her in and out of that thing. But I insisted on having her in the center so I literally had to crawl in.
For STM+ who have registered on Amazon + BBB/BRU before, how did you choose what to put on the Amazon registry vs. the physical store one?
i put most on BBB bc the completion coupons were better. but much to my dismay BBB completion coupon had so many restrictions. BRU is far superior with that (keep in mind it may have changed this was 4 years ago). but BRU was a LOT better with completion. i put things on Amazon that were only there or significantly cheaper.
STM+ moms - REGISTER! even if you dont have a shower. you can buy things off it yourself and get the completion coupons. also put your due date a month or two sooner so you can get the coupon faster.
@purplestars@beezeemarie@mommac2017 thank you guys for your response! I feel very similar in not wanting anyone there until we are ready. At my last appointment, I found out I will need a c-section, so we know it will be planned a week before our due date. The thought of people there just waiting in anticipation to come in kind of stresses me out, so I will need to find a gentle way to let them know.
Also, I know it is early, but I ordered my electric breast pump, since it is covered by insurance now. Not sure if everyone is aware of that but it is worth looking into to save some money. I went to yummymummy.com and chose mine. It has pretty great reviews so I'm excited to get that off my checklist!
with c-sections i would just tell them, you will call when you are out of recovery when they can come. bc they don't allow them in the OR and it will take some time. with planned csections they rarely start on time, and the surgery takes like 45 min. you want to be able to cuddle your baby and recover yourself a bit. if you have a morning one (7/8am), i would tell people they can come after 1pm if you dont want to worry about calling.
I have a question about cars vs SUVs. any STM still have just have a four door car? Both of our cars our paid off - I have a Ford Fusion and DH has a truck for work, and we'd like to not have a car payment...how annoying is it to have car seat and other baby gear in a car? Totally sucky or totally doable?
i'd say doable, but you will prob be looking into a bigger car sooner rather than later. i had a lexus RX and i found that to be too small. just a PITA with a stroller in there and trying to fit groceries. that being said i think your lifestyle plays a role. we take a lot of driving trips where we really need the cargo space. if ideally you want 2+ kids. when you get a new car, i'd skip over the cross over and get yourself a full size SUV or minivan to keep yourself from having to get another car.
@bluejeanbabi05 That's so strange. My OB does global billing so by the time we pay for the delivery at the hospital I will have likely met my deductible and my insurance will cover the OB bill.
What are they going to do? Turn you away at the door in October when you are in labor?
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I heart theSkimm I heart YNAB --------- “Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light." - Albus Dumbledore
@bluejeanbabi05 it's been the norm for me - I had to pay a small copay at each of my appointments with DD and then after delivery the only thing I had to pay for was a small hospital bill and the epidural (since it was *elective* lolzzz). I'm at a different practice, in a different state now, and my copay is larger this time, but I don't have to pay at each appointment and I'll be finished paying in June, too. So then I have until October to put away money for the hospital/epidural (because hecks yes I'm getting that needle again!)
There's some flexibility with it - they asked me to pay it at my 3rd appointment, but it was actually a follow up appointment to the first ultrasound, which didn't have a heartbeat they wanted. So I very kindly asked that I push it off until, you know, we confirmed that it was a viable pregnancy.
BFP#1: 12/3/13 EDD 8/15/13. Heartbeat found on 12/26/13, HB gone on 1/4/13. D&C 1/7/13
BFP#2: 4/19/13 EDD 12/28/13. Team Green for pregnancy and Baby Girl arrived 12/21/13. BFP#3: 2/9/13 EDD 10/18/17. Team Green for Round 2!
@bluejeanbabi05 my OB office gave me the same notice. They want our portion PIF by the 7th month and I'm left with all of the same odd questions! I'm just going to ignore it and pay when I get a bill because it seems very strange to me. We don't have co pays when we visit, so like I said, I'll wait to prepay anything until a bill comes in the mail. I really can't explain it and don't have a better answer for you, but my OB here in Indiana requests the same thing. We get our regular billings for ultrasounds and blood work, but nothing is mentioned on our bills about the cost of delivery. It's weird. I'll update if I hear something different!
@bluejeanbabi05 I had to pay upfront (well by 20 weeks or so) for all my OB care. Then I got the hospital copay and additional charges. Since my care spanned 2014 and 2015, I didn't know how my 2014 flex spending account would like that, but they were willing to reimburse the payment made in 2014 even though most of the services were for 2015.
TTC x 1.5 years.
Acupuncture, Femera x3 cyles, and HSG. BFP in September 2014, DS born June 2015. TTC x2 months. BFP January 2017.
@bluejeanbabi05 It is the norm for our OB and since our insurance is absolutely terrible, we will have to pay $650 up front at the next 4 appointments. I will say that it is important to talk to your billing department & have them break down costs in an itemized bill. My former OBs office was very scetchy about their billing and told us that they couldn't provide an itemized bill. They kept telling us different balances and we would pay it off only to come back again have them say that we still owed $700. My doctor ended up dropping me at 32 weeks, because he "couldn't stand to have a patient insinuating that his business practices were shady".
@Khogue4077 That's super shady. And good advice. I have a good excuse for insisting on itemized bills- my FSA requires them in order to approve the transactions I use that card for.
@ChocolateisLife We sent a blast out on the family whatsapp group so they knew i was in hospital. My immediate family got a couple of updates from DH during labour to tell them I was still labouring and also when it was time for my emergency CS. Everyone respected my space and only parents turned up when DS arrived.
@bluejeanbabi05 They sent me up on a monthly payment plan. All of my OB appointments & delivery only will be paid by the end of September. They bill separate for labs & the hospital bill.
Are you guys sure it's an actual bill for the delivery and not a statement so you know what to expect cost wise? We got a"bill" for the cost of everything around 7 months and I called and they said it's optical to pay now but they wanted to give an idea of cost. They make it look like it's a bill you have to pay though. You should usually get a statement from your insurance before you get the real bill. Ours was about 10 days after delivery. I would never pre pay for something like that. What if God forbid you went into early labor and had to deliver somewhere else. I feel like getting refunded would be a huge Hassel
@baker1jm2 Yeah, I'm not thrilled about it. I am sure that it's a bill due in June though, because it has "full pre-payment due June 30" written on it. They told me I'd be refunded if for some reason delivery doesn't happen.
I've had two situations in the past where I've had to get large refunds from doctors offices (both different from eachother and from my current OB) and I've never had an issue with it, so there's that.
I'm more worried my FSA won't let me use those dollars for a pre-payment. If it doesn't, then why tf did I put so much money into it this year. Ack.
eta: I am actually in the process of collecting each and every procedure code involved in delivery from my OB's office, though, because I've learned the hard way that there are so many mistakes made in estimating those costs. I will call bcbs myself to verify. With our IUI, our RE's office seriously overestimated and overbilled is by $900. Super annoying.
Super interesting. Medical stuff and insurance is so frustrating. Curious how it would work if your delivery was just after your deductible started over but they wanted you to pay early? Would it still go towards your deductible even if the actual service (delivery) was after it started over. I was in that situation with DD. My entire pregnancy was under one insurance deductible period and it started over 2 weeks before I delivered. Totally sucked!
@bluejeanbabi05 So what happens if, god forbid, you're away somewhere when LO wants to make their debut and you deliver at a different hospital?! Do you get your money back?
ETA: NVM I jumped ahead and didn't read everything, I see your response on this topic now.
@bluejeanbabi05 We get the same thing, it's a global fee due by the 8th month of pregnancy. But, there's a specific exception for FSAs where you pay after delivery.
@baker1jm2 Our insurance year starts on August 1 and I was stressing about paying toward one deductible for all the prenatal care and then another for delivery, but it might end up working out in my favor since we pay the full prenatal lump sum in the 8th month (which would be in September after the new billing year starts). I need to call and make sure insurance counts it toward the deductible when the bill is received as opposed to when services were performed. We have a high deductible plan so I'll be screwed if it doesn't work that way.
Re: Ask a STM+ (aka the Stupid Questions Thread)
Married 9/27/2014
TTC Since 1/1/2017
BFP: 2/6/2017
Due Date: 10/13/17
Oct. '17 June S.C. "You Had 1 Job"
Married 9/27/2014
TTC Since 1/1/2017
BFP: 2/6/2017
Due Date: 10/13/17
Married 9/27/2014
TTC Since 1/1/2017
BFP: 2/6/2017
Due Date: 10/13/17
BFP in September 2014, DS born June 2015.
TTC x2 months.
BFP January 2017.
TTC #1: March 2011
Fur-children: 3 dogs + 2 cats (all rescued)
dx: Endometriosis and Fibroids
2 Laps and 1 Abdominal Myomectomy
6 rounds of clomid
5 rounds of iui
IVF #1 Gonal F, Menopur and Cetrotide
ER 12/1/2016:Retrieved 22 eggs 12 fertilized, developed moderate OHSS
4/4 day 5 embryos were normal for PGS!!! 2 boys/2 girls
FET 1/10/2017
Gallbladder surgery 1/10/2017
FET 2/2
BFP 2/7/17 Beta#1: 594!!! Beta#2 1630!!!
Having a girl! EDD 10/21/17
*O17 June Siggy Challenge - You had 1 job!*
You really can't pump and save because your milk doesn't come in, most often, until after you have the baby. It ends up being colostrum. My milk took 7 days to come in. My poor son was allergic to a few of the formulas we used to supplement until my milk came in. I remember when it came in too.... I was crying my eyes out in the shower for failing as a breastfeeder and wanting so badly to be able to.... then BAM. It came in.
You shouldjoin a breast feeding support group, on fb or the free group hosted by the area hospital. It will be a game changer
Also, I know it is early, but I ordered my electric breast pump, since it is covered by insurance now. Not sure if everyone is aware of that but it is worth looking into to save some money. I went to yummymummy.com and chose mine. It has pretty great reviews so I'm excited to get that off my checklist!
TTC #1: March 2011
Fur-children: 3 dogs + 2 cats (all rescued)
dx: Endometriosis and Fibroids
2 Laps and 1 Abdominal Myomectomy
6 rounds of clomid
5 rounds of iui
IVF #1 Gonal F, Menopur and Cetrotide
ER 12/1/2016:Retrieved 22 eggs 12 fertilized, developed moderate OHSS
4/4 day 5 embryos were normal for PGS!!! 2 boys/2 girls
FET 1/10/2017
Gallbladder surgery 1/10/2017
FET 2/2
BFP 2/7/17 Beta#1: 594!!! Beta#2 1630!!!
Having a girl! EDD 10/21/17
any STM still have just have a four door car? Both of our cars our paid off - I have a Ford Fusion and DH has a truck for work, and we'd like to not have a car payment...how annoying is it to have car seat and other baby gear in a car? Totally sucky or totally doable?
Me.30 DH.31
BFP 2/3/17...edd 10/13/17
Since we are having twins this time around, we will definitely need something bigger. I think we plan on keeping the Prius for the gas efficiency and bc it's newer and trading in the Equinox for something's bigger...a "family car".
If we didnt have the traveling dog issue it would have been no problem at all.
I heart YNAB
---------
“Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times,
if one only remembers to turn on the light."
- Albus Dumbledore
We are planning to foster-to-adopt a couple years after this LO arrives so we will definitely need a larger car before then. Something with 3 rows would be so nice.
Preemie ID DDs; then DS; then natural M/C; now due 10/17
High risk for pre-term: weekly Makena injections
I had a Ford Taurus for my first who was born in January. I upgraded to an Explorer in April because I just couldn't handle getting her in and out of that thing. But I insisted on having her in the center so I literally had to crawl in.
STM+ moms - REGISTER! even if you dont have a shower. you can buy things off it yourself and get the completion coupons. also put your due date a month or two sooner so you can get the coupon faster.
May Siggy Challenge: Parenting Fails
May Siggy Challenge: Parenting Fails
May Siggy Challenge: Parenting Fails
What are they going to do? Turn you away at the door in October when you are in labor?
I heart YNAB
---------
“Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times,
if one only remembers to turn on the light."
- Albus Dumbledore
There's some flexibility with it - they asked me to pay it at my 3rd appointment, but it was actually a follow up appointment to the first ultrasound, which didn't have a heartbeat they wanted. So I very kindly asked that I push it off until, you know, we confirmed that it was a viable pregnancy.
BFP#3: 2/9/13 EDD 10/18/17. Team Green for Round 2!
BFP in September 2014, DS born June 2015.
TTC x2 months.
BFP January 2017.
I will say that it is important to talk to your billing department & have them break down costs in an itemized bill. My former OBs office was very scetchy about their billing and told us that they couldn't provide an itemized bill. They kept telling us different balances and we would pay it off only to come back again have them say that we still owed $700. My doctor ended up dropping me at 32 weeks, because he "couldn't stand to have a patient insinuating that his business practices were shady".
@Khogue4077 That's super shady. And good advice. I have a good excuse for insisting on itemized bills- my FSA requires them in order to approve the transactions I use that card for.
@ChocolateisLife We sent a blast out on the family whatsapp group so they knew i was in hospital. My immediate family got a couple of updates from DH during labour to tell them I was still labouring and also when it was time for my emergency CS. Everyone respected my space and only parents turned up when DS arrived.
**June Siggy Challenge: You Had ONE Job!**
LO#2 EDD October 18th
I've had two situations in the past where I've had to get large refunds from doctors offices (both different from eachother and from my current OB) and I've never had an issue with it, so there's that.
I'm more worried my FSA won't let me use those dollars for a pre-payment. If it doesn't, then why tf did I put so much money into it this year. Ack.
eta: I am actually in the process of collecting each and every procedure code involved in delivery from my OB's office, though, because I've learned the hard way that there are so many mistakes made in estimating those costs. I will call bcbs myself to verify. With our IUI, our RE's office seriously overestimated and overbilled is by $900. Super annoying.
ETA: NVM I jumped ahead and didn't read everything, I see your response on this topic now.
@baker1jm2 Our insurance year starts on August 1 and I was stressing about paying toward one deductible for all the prenatal care and then another for delivery, but it might end up working out in my favor since we pay the full prenatal lump sum in the 8th month (which would be in September after the new billing year starts). I need to call and make sure insurance counts it toward the deductible when the bill is received as opposed to when services were performed. We have a high deductible plan so I'll be screwed if it doesn't work that way.