@catem07 It’s way more expensive to store both cord blood AND cord tissue. She told us both would collectively cost way more, but DS1’s oncologist told us they only need the cord blood for the transplant he would need.
And I think some people pay for years at a time versus paying by the year, so they don’t forget.
So stem cells can be used to in treatment of lots of things in future. And they are constantly researching this and will likely find more uses in future. Also it sounds like they somehow have to be a "match" for the person in need so that if a person needed stem cells for some treatment their best bet is their own or a close family member's. Do I have the dumbed down version straight?
@pirateduck Yep. That’s the basics. Honestly, I know it’s probably not something that a lot of people will have the need for, but we’re in that category of people that assumed one thing and quickly learned otherwise.
All I said was “ Do people think this forum is their personal mom google?” And she got all huffy about it. I can’t wait til our PG is up and running. No need to worry about drive-bys then.
For the cord blood, I have read that you can donate your baby’s cord blood too. I think it’s free to do that. Kind of like when you donate blood or sign up for a bone marrow donor program.
@mamaj1220 No, no, it doesn't, lol. Every time I think I'm done with laundry, the kids bring their hampers down I have trained them to fold and stow their clothes, though, so I just have to wash and dry it and they do the rest.
So now TB is giving me yellow unread comment flags on threads where I was the one who made the last comment. It's driving my compulsive need to clear the flags bananas.
**TW**
Me: 35 | H: 40 Married Sept. 2013 DS1: Nov 11, 2016 MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d) CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d) BFP! 8/24/19 DS2: May 10, 2020
We just found out that DH was a c-section baby and he was formula fed— he always assumed that he was born vaginally and was breast fed. I was also a c-section and formula fed. I don’t know if these types of things are hereditary but now I have it in my mind that I won’t be able to have the baby vaginally or breastfeed.
Some family history. My mom had 4 c-sections. I’m the second oldest. She had an emergency c-section with my older brother. With me she tried to VBAC but I wasn’t cooperating so they had to do a c-section. The other two were planned c-sections and none of us were breastfed. DH is an only child.
@drkoyya I'm going all off of assumptions here, I think we're somewhat close in age. I think there wasn't the push towards breastfeeding when we were babies...
Ok I couldn't keep going off assumptions and Googled it. I found an article that tracked breastfeeding percentages (I'll admit I skimmed it because it's too early to read a scholarly article). I guess breastfeeding declined through the 20th century but started to increase in the 1970s (I'm an 80s baby). I know my mom breastfed for a bit but quickly switched to formula because she wanted my dad to help with the late night feedings. Which actually matches with the trends in the article. I think you'll do fine breastfeeding if that's your choice!
@drkoyya yes exactly what @jrouge12 said. There also wasn't the same amount of support or education surrounding breastfeeding that exists today. Also, if moms had to go back to work the pumping aspect made it very hard since breast pumps weren't anything like they are now. It just wasn't the norm.
@jrouge12@rachelg777 Thanks! Logically, I’m sure I won’t have a problem delivering naturally or breastfeeding. However, I can’t help my irrational thoughts. Comes with being hormonal I guess.
@rachelg777@drkoyya I know my mom worked for a bank back then, I'm sure there wasn't even a consideration for time or space for women to pump. In my new school building they've built in several dedicated rooms for pumping 🎉. With DD I had to use an admin's office who traveled a lot.
@drkoyya My mom had one emergency CS and two elective. My first was a vaginal and she couldn’t believe I’d do it willingly. It blows her mind that I’m trying for a VBAC this time instead of doing a repeat CS. Different mindset for that crowd.
As for breastfeeding, MH and I (plus all my sisters) were formula babies right from the get go. MH has tons of cousins and family and they only formula feed. Once again I got crazy looks when DS2 was still breastfeeding at 2.5. You can try/do whatever it is that makes you a happy mama. And if you get the weird looks, just ignore them. As others mentioned, the times have changed a lot recently with the mindset on breastfeeding, especially extended breastfeeding and not everyone has adapted to that yet.
@drkoyya Definitely not hereditary on the FF aspect. There was definitely a push for formula being better for the baby back in the 80s. Not sure about C-sections, but anecdotally, I was a C-section baby and was formula fed, and I'm pretty sure MH was a CS and FF as well. I delivered DS vaginally (although not easily and he was almost a candidate for emergency CS) and successfully breastfed him for 6 months (although again, not easily).
**TW**
Me: 35 | H: 40 Married Sept. 2013 DS1: Nov 11, 2016 MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d) CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d) BFP! 8/24/19 DS2: May 10, 2020
@drkoyya Although I will say it can definitely have a negative effect on your support system for breastfeeding. There was somewhat of a negative stigma around it in my family, which really bothered me. I was having to constantly go hide away to nurse DS because it made them all feel uncomfortable, which was annoying. Although secretly I loved it with the in-laws because it was an excuse to go sit by myself with the baby in a quiet room without them hogging him all to themselves.
**TW**
Me: 35 | H: 40 Married Sept. 2013 DS1: Nov 11, 2016 MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d) CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d) BFP! 8/24/19 DS2: May 10, 2020
@drkoyya I'm just here to give the opposite opinion as the others. While yes, in the 80s formula was marketed very well so a lot of women chose to do that because it worked well for those that worked, trouble breastfeeding can be hereditary too. I was born in '88 and formula fed, my mom has huge boobs and tried to breastfeed but always had trouble with supply. She has many sisters and after talking with some of them it seemed like several of them also had varying degrees of trouble with supply. I have small boobs and ended up having extreme trouble with supply (I've talked about it several times here). Basically from what I've found out is that the women in my family just don't seem to have enough glandular tissue for milk making and this is what can be hereditary. Size of the boobs doesn't matter, my moms are really large (DD+) but made up of mostly fatty tissue, mine are small (barely a B cup) and also seem to be made up of more fatty tissue. If you have widely spaced breasts, tubular breasts, really large areolas, a boob that is much larger than the other, or no breast changes in puberty and/or pregnancy these can all be signs that you may have mammary hypoplasia or IGT and it is possible that you will have difficulty with breastfeeding or supply. Having a C-section on top of that can make it even harder for milk production to begin. Now there are people out there who have hypoplastic breasts and can breastfeed just fine, it is more of a spectrum. Sorry if this brings you down, in hindsight I wish people would have warned me of the possibility of not being able to breastfeed, I think it wouldn't have been so difficult and I wouldn't have been so hard on myself then.
@drkoyya my mother breastfed us (me and 2 siblings) for a month until we would sleep through the night with formula and I have been breastfeeding DD for the last 21 months, she's just starting to self wean now. I am the first of my family that I can remember who exclusively breastfed, my cousin who had a baby 5 month before DD pumped and gave bottles and formula because she didn't like to feed from the breast and though that was weird. My mother did have natural unmedicated births with all 3 of us and says it wasn't bad at all and doesn't understand why women scream while giving birth. I had to have a c-section due to DD being breech. I think births and breastfeeding have more to do with the individual than genes though saying that, big heads and giant GD babies can be hereditary and that could cause more C-sections.
@drkoyya Ah, yes... @m6agua raises a good point. The reason WHY they formula fed is an important piece. If they had biological reasons for doing so, then that's more likely to be hereditary. But, those cases are a lot less common than formula just being really pushed as the best option back then. A lot of women didn't even attempt breastfeeding then and went straight to formula. So, worth asking for the reasoning if you're close enough with your mom and MIL.
**TW**
Me: 35 | H: 40 Married Sept. 2013 DS1: Nov 11, 2016 MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d) CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d) BFP! 8/24/19 DS2: May 10, 2020
My mom didn't produce enough milk for me but I breastfed DD for two years. I don't know what the actual statistics are as far as it being hereditary, but it seems like we have lots of anecdotes for all possibilities.
Also aside from having glandular issues, there are lots of decisions you can make in the early weeks that will help you have a good supply. For some people (and I'm not speaking to m6agua's experience here), they may think their supply wasn't sufficient but it was a result of not being set up well.
DD #1: April 2017 DD #2: May 2020 Baby #3: EDD May 2023; MC October 2022
@catem07 You make a great point. I follow Legendairy Milk on instagram and they always have a lot of great information. In particular I like this chart, it is about storage capacity and making sure you are removing the milk enough for whatever your capacity is. Also from what I've read, things don't really regulate until 4-6 weeks and the journey is more like a rollarcoaster as you will have dips here and there. None of that is from experience since I have none, just research.
@drkoyya echoing what others said it really depends on why your mom chose to FF, but also all moms and babies are different. My mom BF both me and my brother, and I grew up watching aunts etc and always assumed I would do the same. When I saw other people struggle or talk about how it didnt work I just assumed that wouldn't be me. I also had some facebook friends who were very in your face about breastfeeding and how it's the best and you're terrible if you don't exclusively BF and formula is the devil. When DD1 was born she was losing weight, slightly jaundice, and not very happy. The pediatrician suggested I supplement, but I thought that meant I was a failure compared to my friends if I didn't EXCLUSIVELY breastfeed so we struggled for 2 horrible weeks with few trips to the lactation consultant. We finally did a weighted feed and they determined that even though her latch seemed ok she wasn't effectively transferring milk and getting what she needed. They never gave a real reason, but the LC made me feel better when she told me that of her 2 kids one she struggled with and the other pretty much did it all herself and was no effort on her part to be able to breastfeed which gives me some hope. She also made me feel it's OK to supplement or pump or do whatever is necessary to feed your baby and keep yourself sane. I think my struggles with BF were the biggest contributor to my baby blues/PPD the first few weeks of DD's life. I finally switched to exclusively pumping with some supplementing with formula because I was a few oz short of what DD was eating every day. Once I gave myself that grace it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulder. I also think my supply issues may have (hopefully) been partially caused by DD not properly emptying me since she didn't have a great latch so I'm hopeful that I may be able to produce more this go round. I hope to breastfeed but also plan to probably pump after feeds starting immediately after this baby is born to help increase my supply.
All of this novel is really just to say it's great to have a plan and know what you want, but please also know there are other options and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. As long baby are fed and you're both happy you are doing great!
@m6agua Love that chart definitely saved it and sent it to some new mamas I know who have asked for help with breastfeeding. It explains what I've tried to explain very badly to them about emptying more often if they only get a little bit each time.
@drkoyya I agree with @m6agua that there are absolutely reasons that people can physically not breastfeed. However, IGT is not a common issue (I think less than 5%) so I also agree with @catem07 that sometimes people can be misinformed of how much they need to make and what they need to do in order to produce a sufficient amount. That chart that m6agua showed is great and the little tidbit that states you need “7 removals” to keep up is a good thing to keep in mind—especially in the beginning!
My mom has mosquito bites for boobs and produced “enough milk to feed a village” (in her words). She was also fortunate to be able to stay home and only nurse since pumps were a joke back then.
I have PCOS and the hormonal imbalance can cause difficulty for breastfeeding, but since I knew this going into it I was prepared to fight. And it took weeks for me to finally be able to actually breastfeed but I got there and then had plenty of extra stash, too!
So basically, just go into it prepared and work as hard as you want to! Don’t let what happened to family members dictate the effort that you choose to put in, but also definitely a good idea to have the conversation about *why* your mom didn’t breastfeed.
On the topic of BF vs FF, just wanted to echo @bananapanda to say that having a feeding plan prior to delivery is great, and trying to consider your options is very important, but in the case that BF doesn't work, or you simply don't get out of it what you thought (weighing the pros and cons once you get going), it's OK to change your plan. for DS1 I put so much pressure on myself to EBF and made it 4 months, but never enjoyed it (personally). For DS2, it was easier at the beginning, but I ended up with an extreme fore/hind milk imbalance which lead to him being colicky and gassy 95% of his time, so I stopped after 3 months. This time, I'm taking it day by day. I'm going to have formula ready, and if my postpartum self decides that day 2 I want to supplement so I can get some sleep after taking care of 3 kids in the house, then that's what I'm going to do. Gotta do what works best for you!!
+1 for doing what works best for you @mamaqdubu I worked so hard to over produce for a big freezer stash when I went back to work. I was successful but it took its toll. I would pump after all of DD's night time feedings. I'm not sure I'm up for that this time...
Agree with @jrouge12 It does take it's toll!! We don't give ourselves enough grace. Do what works for you and your sanity.
I struggled to produce with my 1st and beat myself up about it. I was so worried about not being able to produce with my 2nd that I was waking every 3 hours at night to pump even when she was sleeping. 🤦♀️ With my 3rd, I chose my sanity and BF on demand only unless I was engorged and needed relief.
@afranzen85 I have always thought your avatar photo is a bowl of queso, and it always makes me want queso. I just clicked on it and realized it's a pie, and now I want pie, too.
**TW**
Me: 35 | H: 40 Married Sept. 2013 DS1: Nov 11, 2016 MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d) CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d) BFP! 8/24/19 DS2: May 10, 2020
I've been off TB for about 4 days and so much to catch up on! Trying to read through post - but as far as the cord blood discussion - we chose to donate DS's cord blood - originally I thought we would delay clamping, but a nurse came to talk to us about cord blood donation while I was in L&D and it seemed like the best thing from our perspective to do - immediate benefits to a someone who might really need it to save their life. I'm glad we chose that route and definitely plan to donate with this baby as well. I know my brother and SIL did cord banking, but there are some genetic issues that run in SIL's family, so they felt it was the best option for them.
As far as c-sections being genetic - I think it has almost everything to do with why the c-section happened. My mom had 3 c-sections and all of them were due to "failure to progress" I also had a c-section with DS that was due to "failure to progress" - I didn't even dilate 1 cm at 41 weeks after a full 24 hours on pitocin and getting cervicil. My old OB feels pretty strongly that genetics was to play in that some women's bodies just don't go into natural labor as easily due to genetic factors. My new OB feels about the same and is the main reason why he thinks a VBAC isn't going to happen (although I'm still going to try).
@mokay19 I also have pcos and have been wondering how difficult breastfeeding would be. Did it just take a while to have a good supply or were there other problems?
After extensive talks with my mom and MIL, c sections were happening for all sorts of reasons that may or may not be genetic. There were only 3 total on my mom's entire extended side for generations, but all my cousins due to personal life/health choices, whereas my MIL had 2 sections and 2 VBACs.
Only one aunt total of mine, both sides, nursed any babies-but no one tried, or tried more than once. They were told that if milk wasn't fully in by birth itself, milk would never come in. My mom was told her preemie (me) would never be able to nurse, and they didn't want her to, because formula was more healthy and they could measure what went in. My MIL nursed all 3 kids but only for 6-8 weeks, and then couldn't handle the pressure of it (which is fair, she had a 3 year old and newborn twins!).
All that to say somethings can have genetic causes, but many don't. Doctors attitudes are always changing.
Also important to note here-the dude bro who came up with 40 weeks as the best pregnancy length just compiled data on length, not health, of babies. It's been shown since that safest range of gestation length is 38-42+6, and that many women naturally will carry to 42+ with no detriment to baby at all, they just genetically carry longer. Often "failure to progress" is more of a consequence of "failure to wait" (not always, but again, in a general sense, when baby is healthy just inside longer than expected). Often trying to induce just for length of time of pregnancy fails because baby and body aren't ready. And there is a hospital standard promoting dilation of 1 cm every 1-2 hours, but if baby is healthy, that's silly. Worldwide it's known that for first vaginal delivery, 24 hours+ of labor is normal for a non-induced baby, and 3-4 days for induction. American healthcare standards of trying to get people in and out quickly and at doctor's schedule convenience is leading to more interventions.
By all means, make choices about your births. I think everyone should. But know that many doctors suggest induction or augmentation or a c section without evidence that mom or baby are in distress. I don't think there's anything wrong with induction or c sections. But if that isn't your goal, double check all the reasoning behind everything.
Weighted feeds are such a great tool for early nursing. Also, in addition to hormonal imbalances, tongue or lip tie on babies can cause problems with nursing and getting supply in, and many doctors don't recognize them-even feeding therapists (I wish I was kidding but at least 6 professionals missed my daughter's).
Also, some babies appear to lose a lot of weight after birth. Keep in mind though that if mom is on an IV for many days or even just a high flow IV or two for several hours before birth, baby's weight at birth may be artificially inflated at birth, they may be over hydrated, and need to lose excess water. If you are swollen from extra fluids given during labor, baby might be too.
There are so many factors it's hard to guess what may or may not happen, but in general some 70% ish of FTM aiming for a vaginal delivery do so. And some majority of women aiming to nurse also succeed for the first 6 months. Do your best to set yourself up for success, and know there is no wrong way to feed your baby (assuming you're not trying to make your own formula out of non-nutritionally balanced weird things!) and no wrong way to birth a baby (assuming you are treated with respect and listened to (not abused)).
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
@pourmeanothermocktail I love what you wrote. "The dude bro" 🤣 I know I've said it before but I feel like one of those women who naturally carry to 42w. My mom was at 42w with both me and my sibling and I went to 42w with DD. Everyone needs to approach labor and feeding with what is right for them. I can't believe your aunts were told that if milk wasn't in by birth they wouldn't be able to nurse. With DD it was probably 3 days after delivery my milk was fully in.
Re: Weekly Randoms | Feb 17-23
For the cord blood, I have read that you can donate your baby’s cord blood too. I think it’s free to do that. Kind of like when you donate blood or sign up for a bone marrow donor program.
Married Sept. 2013
DS1: Nov 11, 2016
MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d)
CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d)
BFP! 8/24/19
DS2: May 10, 2020
FTM
BFP: 9/5/19 ~ EDD 5/15/20
FTM
BFP 08/25/19, EDD 05/04/20
Ok I couldn't keep going off assumptions and Googled it. I found an article that tracked breastfeeding percentages (I'll admit I skimmed it because it's too early to read a scholarly article). I guess breastfeeding declined through the 20th century but started to increase in the 1970s (I'm an 80s baby). I know my mom breastfed for a bit but quickly switched to formula because she wanted my dad to help with the late night feedings. Which actually matches with the trends in the article. I think you'll do fine breastfeeding if that's your choice!
FTM
BFP 08/25/19, EDD 05/04/20
As for breastfeeding, MH and I (plus all my sisters) were formula babies right from the get go. MH has tons of cousins and family and they only formula feed. Once again I got crazy looks when DS2 was still breastfeeding at 2.5. You can try/do whatever it is that makes you a happy mama. And if you get the weird looks, just ignore them. As others mentioned, the times have changed a lot recently with the mindset on breastfeeding, especially extended breastfeeding and not everyone has adapted to that yet.
Married Sept. 2013
DS1: Nov 11, 2016
MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d)
CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d)
BFP! 8/24/19
DS2: May 10, 2020
Married Sept. 2013
DS1: Nov 11, 2016
MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d)
CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d)
BFP! 8/24/19
DS2: May 10, 2020
- BFP: 3/10/16 — Baby Girl born 11/20/16
TTC#2 April 2019Married Sept. 2013
DS1: Nov 11, 2016
MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d)
CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d)
BFP! 8/24/19
DS2: May 10, 2020
Also aside from having glandular issues, there are lots of decisions you can make in the early weeks that will help you have a good supply. For some people (and I'm not speaking to m6agua's experience here), they may think their supply wasn't sufficient but it was a result of not being set up well.
DD #2: May 2020
Baby #3: EDD May 2023; MC October 2022
- BFP: 3/10/16 — Baby Girl born 11/20/16
TTC#2 April 2019All of this novel is really just to say it's great to have a plan and know what you want, but please also know there are other options and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. As long baby are fed and you're both happy you are doing great!
Love that chart definitely saved it and sent it to some new mamas I know who have asked for help with breastfeeding. It explains what I've tried to explain very badly to them about emptying more often if they only get a little bit each time.
I agree with @m6agua that there are absolutely reasons that people can physically not breastfeed. However, IGT is not a common issue (I think less than 5%) so I also agree with @catem07 that sometimes people can be misinformed of how much they need to make and what they need to do in order to produce a sufficient amount. That chart that m6agua showed is great and the little tidbit that states you need “7 removals” to keep up is a good thing to keep in mind—especially in the beginning!
My mom has mosquito bites for boobs and produced “enough milk to feed a village” (in her words). She was also fortunate to be able to stay home and only nurse since pumps were a joke back then.
I worked so hard to over produce for a big freezer stash when I went back to work. I was successful but it took its toll. I would pump after all of DD's night time feedings. I'm not sure I'm up for that this time...
I struggled to produce with my 1st and beat myself up about it. I was so worried about not being able to produce with my 2nd that I was waking every 3 hours at night to pump even when she was sleeping. 🤦♀️ With my 3rd, I chose my sanity and BF on demand only unless I was engorged and needed relief.
Married Sept. 2013
DS1: Nov 11, 2016
MMC: 11/16/18 (9w6d)
CP: 2/3/19 (5w3d)
BFP! 8/24/19
DS2: May 10, 2020
As far as c-sections being genetic - I think it has almost everything to do with why the c-section happened. My mom had 3 c-sections and all of them were due to "failure to progress" I also had a c-section with DS that was due to "failure to progress" - I didn't even dilate 1 cm at 41 weeks after a full 24 hours on pitocin and getting cervicil. My old OB feels pretty strongly that genetics was to play in that some women's bodies just don't go into natural labor as easily due to genetic factors. My new OB feels about the same and is the main reason why he thinks a VBAC isn't going to happen (although I'm still going to try).
Only one aunt total of mine, both sides, nursed any babies-but no one tried, or tried more than once. They were told that if milk wasn't fully in by birth itself, milk would never come in. My mom was told her preemie (me) would never be able to nurse, and they didn't want her to, because formula was more healthy and they could measure what went in. My MIL nursed all 3 kids but only for 6-8 weeks, and then couldn't handle the pressure of it (which is fair, she had a 3 year old and newborn twins!).
All that to say somethings can have genetic causes, but many don't. Doctors attitudes are always changing.
Also important to note here-the dude bro who came up with 40 weeks as the best pregnancy length just compiled data on length, not health, of babies. It's been shown since that safest range of gestation length is 38-42+6, and that many women naturally will carry to 42+ with no detriment to baby at all, they just genetically carry longer. Often "failure to progress" is more of a consequence of "failure to wait" (not always, but again, in a general sense, when baby is healthy just inside longer than expected). Often trying to induce just for length of time of pregnancy fails because baby and body aren't ready. And there is a hospital standard promoting dilation of 1 cm every 1-2 hours, but if baby is healthy, that's silly. Worldwide it's known that for first vaginal delivery, 24 hours+ of labor is normal for a non-induced baby, and 3-4 days for induction. American healthcare standards of trying to get people in and out quickly and at doctor's schedule convenience is leading to more interventions.
By all means, make choices about your births. I think everyone should. But know that many doctors suggest induction or augmentation or a c section without evidence that mom or baby are in distress. I don't think there's anything wrong with induction or c sections. But if that isn't your goal, double check all the reasoning behind everything.
Weighted feeds are such a great tool for early nursing. Also, in addition to hormonal imbalances, tongue or lip tie on babies can cause problems with nursing and getting supply in, and many doctors don't recognize them-even feeding therapists (I wish I was kidding but at least 6 professionals missed my daughter's).
Also, some babies appear to lose a lot of weight after birth. Keep in mind though that if mom is on an IV for many days or even just a high flow IV or two for several hours before birth, baby's weight at birth may be artificially inflated at birth, they may be over hydrated, and need to lose excess water. If you are swollen from extra fluids given during labor, baby might be too.
There are so many factors it's hard to guess what may or may not happen, but in general some 70% ish of FTM aiming for a vaginal delivery do so. And some majority of women aiming to nurse also succeed for the first 6 months. Do your best to set yourself up for success, and know there is no wrong way to feed your baby (assuming you're not trying to make your own formula out of non-nutritionally balanced weird things!) and no wrong way to birth a baby (assuming you are treated with respect and listened to (not abused)).
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green