The Circumcision Thread

kiwi2628 · May 2018

Ok, I am doing it. I am starting a circumcision thread...

So, circumcision:

Are you doing it? Are you not? What is your reasoning for either? Do you have some scientific and unbiased literature to share?

I would also like to state that this is a controversial subject, but as this is a topic that affects just your own offspring and your decision does not impact others that we can maintain civility here.

...and if we can't I will gif you hard

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

Yes! I need this thread. We’re still undecided and I don’t know what to do about this. H leans toward circumcising and I lean against but we’re not sure what we’re going to do. I need primary sources for us to read!! Whaddayagot?

kiwi2628 · May 2018

@DunkinDecaf we are split too! My husband is cut, but doesn't want to circ this one, I am back and forth, but want to make a fully informed decision from a medical, social and cultural standpoint

zwink1 · May 2018

I'm curious about this topic as well. We're team green, so I have no idea whether this is even an issue for this little banana, but we of course have to consider it prior to birth.

I'll admit that I have no strong feelings one way or another. BFF is strongly against and neither of her boys is circed, so I've gotten some input from her perspective. At this point, however, I've largely been deferring to H. I can read until I'm blue in the face, but he's the one with actual experience. That said, I'm persuadable, so I'm interested to hear others' viewpoints.

magdaaaa · May 2018

We will definitely be circumcising. And while my reasons aren’t scientific based, they are experienced based. As a nurse, I have seen and been part of many circumcisions. While no, they are not the most pleasant thing in the world, they happen very quickly and are over in a matter of minutes. Also, seeing the hygiene issues that can come about at any age but certainly later in life from the folds of skin, etc involved with a uncircumcised penis, I’m definitely going for it. Personal preference 100%... and I do not think either way is right or wrong, it’s just a decision to be made as mothers of boys.

jynjer4 · May 2018

We are planning to circumcise for religious reasons. I support it for that reason of course but really hate the thought of it.. DH would want to have it done regardless of religious beliefs but I’m not exactly sure how I feel. I do know for a fact I’ll cry for my little man!! I can’t imagine how much it must hurt! I watched a video on how it’s done (can’t remember where) and was quite horrified.

sammierose464 · May 2018

When it comes to videos, I wonder if it's a "only the worst" are shown situation. I have heard from a few similar sentiments to @mommy_myers.

We will be. DH and SS are both circ'd. I have also read and heard of hygiene issues and STD concerns from classes I have taken.

I do feel that it is interesting to see the differences across the world. I fully understand that the US is one of the few countries that does it so routinely.

rc-cola · May 2018

Appreciate this thread!! Also on the fence, also team green. Leaning against right now. I do have a close friend who had to be circumcised in his teens and he says that was a really horrible experience. But it’s too rare to be the basis for a decision. My H is circumcised and I’m Jewish but I’m still not sure I believe in circumsicion. Questioning traditions and very interested to hear what others are thinking about in making their choice!

lilyaster · May 2018

We’re having our second boy and he will be staying intact like his big brother. DH is cut but after doing our research, and with my experience as an RN we decided it’s a personal decision that should be left to the owner of the penis (with the rare exception of medical necessity). We’ve had zero issues in 6 years. The important thing to know with an intact child is to not retract the foreskin, just wipe the outside. Yourwholebaby.org is a great resource.

ummibtihaj · May 2018

We're team green, but if we have another son he will be circumcised due to religious reasons for us.

hellopartyof5 · May 2018

So DS was circumcised and they didn't take enough off/ did it unevenly. So when he was 22mos old he had a revision and it wasn't a very pleasant experience. I felt so so bad for him. So if were having another boy (This is honestly a reason I would rather have a girl tbh) I'm either not having it done or having it done by a pediatric urologist. You can also ask on fb groups and see if people are happy with the way your OB did the circ. My dr apparently leaves more (which is definitely more common these days, they don't want to damage nerves) and a bunch of people had to have a revision. I've also heard in cities pedi urologists are the ones that do it anyways. This is a very long post to basically say do your research on your individual dr if you decide to do this.

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

@hellopartyof5 good to know!! Also, your poor little guy! I’m sorry. That sucks.

jennybean80 · May 2018

I always find this an interesting topic. I’m in Canada, and rates here are way lower than in the US.
From a totally anecdotal stand point, my dad, both brothers, all my male cousins, DH, his 2 brothers, and our two boys aren’t circ’d, and as far as I know none of them have ever had any complications from not being done.
Cutting off a body part to prevent something that might happen in the future also seems excessive. In my mind it would be like doing mastectomies on infant girls to prevent breast cancer or mastitis later in life. I realize some women choose to do so if they test positive for the BRCA genes, but in that case we let adults make the decision about their own bodies, rather than making an irreversible decision for someone else.

cjx95 · May 2018

If we have a boy he'll be Circumcised, DH is and honestly that's the biggest reason we'd do it to our son as well. Not in a "look like dad" way just because he has more experience with this topic and I'm going to trust his decision and choice for our son. This is all if we have a boy of course which we find out next saturday!!

nasalot188 · May 2018

I am also in Canada, and it does seem to be becoming less common here to circumcise. DS is circumcised and if this one is a boy (team green) we will also have circumcised. I did not feel strongly one way or the other, however my DH felt very strongly about it and I left the decision to him. I understand some people don't agree with giving the husband all the say, but like I said I really didn't feel strongly one way or the other.

I will say anecdotally that I know of 3 men who had to get the procedure done later in life due to issues with infection. Obviously this is not scientific based, just my personal experience.

As for my experience with DS, it was very quick. Doctor said he slept through the procedure. Once the numbing wore off he was miserable for a few hours. That was the worst of it. Within 24 hours completely back to normal.

Personal decision 100%. Neither decision is right or wrong in my books.

hellopartyof5 · May 2018

@DunkinDecaf it was a hard decision on redoing the procedure, but I'm so glad it over now.

mommy2ane · May 2018

DH and our son is so if this one is a boy, he will be too. I left the decision up to my husband since he’s the one who will have to answer all the penis care questions. Our NICU doctor actually did it on the day he was discharged. He was given a thumbs up from my OB, and a lot of the NICU nurses said he was good as well so we felt comfortable with him doing it. DH actually watched the procedure and said it wasn’t that bad and we haven’t had any issues 4 years later. I think it took 20 minutes total.

britvahok · May 2018

I have 2 boys and they're both circumcised. If this LO is a boy, he will also be circumcised. I've heard horror stories on both sides of the topic. A mom in my local fb group didn't circumcise her DS and he's not even 1 and has already had 3 UTIs because daycare doesn't know how to properly clean him. I've heard stories of parents not caring for a circumcisions correctly in the first few days and causing an infection. I think you just have to make the best decision for your family and there isn't a right or wrong answer.

jengibre_zorro · May 2018

Just to add my input, we did and will continue to do on future boys because my husband is circ'd, and had some bad memories of high school boys being teased in the locker room for being uncut. Granted, the times they are a changin', and i believe in the US is closing in on 50/50, so i doubt that will be as much of an issue now, and hopefully a non issue 20 years from now, but none the less it had an impact on him and did contribute to our decision.

I personally don't feel strongly either way, but wanted to contribute my husbands perspective. I honestly hate that we have to even make a decision like this.

mytrueloves · May 2018

The study done in Africa that stated circumcision reduced the rate of STD's has been called into question numerous times and a repeated study found there was no correlation between circumcision and reduced STD infections. Links:
Insufficient evidence
Circumcision had no protective effect in the prevention of HIV transmission
Is male circumcision the new HIV vaccine?
HIV / Aids and Circumcision: Lost in Translation

While it's true that infant circumcision can reduce the rate of UTI's in the first six months of life, male infants have a total UTI rate (among both circumcised and intact infants) of 1.8% in the first year of life, versus 6.6% UTI rate of female infants. After the first year of life, the total rate of UTI's in male infants drops to 0.1-0.2%. UTI's are easily treated with antibiotics and rarely, if ever, lead to serious complications. Link.

According to the British Journal of Urology, the circumcised penis requires more care in the first 3 years of life than the intact penis. "The clinical findings of an American pediatrician showed that circumcised boys were significantly more likely to have skin adhesions, trapped debris, irritated urinary opening, and inflammation of the glans (head of the penis) than were boys with a foreskin." Link.

There's also the matter of the fact that one of the leading proponents of infant circumcision (Dr. Brian Morris of the University of Sydney) who has funded and published numerous studies on circumcision, is a known circumfetishist whose website included a link to a private website dedicated to erotic fiction involving the circumcision of minors. I will not include the screenshots of this as they are disturbing, but anyone who wants to see them can message me and I'll share.

Sorry for being quick and blunt with my links. I have the worst migraine of my life but I wanted to add my input!

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

I haven’t read the paper they talk about at the beginning but the suggestion that HALF of all boys will have an infection related to their intact foreskin made my eyes pop. Looking into it now.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/circumcision-rates-declining-health-risks-rising-study-says/

edited to add: found the paper they were talking about. Reading it now

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00036-6/abstract

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

@mytrueloves OHMYGOD the circumfetishist is the dr quoted in the cbs article I shared

mytrueloves · May 2018

@DunkinDecaf It's not a well known fact and many people don't think to research doctors for biases, so it goes unnoticed.

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

@mytrueloves when your headache gets better I’d love to hear how you know he’s into that weird circumcision porn or whatever. I don’t want to look for it because I’m afraid I’ll find it but if he’s seriously into that it pours a bucketload of salt on everything he’s written, and he seems like (from my brief looking around) one of the foremost pro-circ voices in the scientific community.

mytrueloves · May 2018

@DunkinDecaf No problem!

SweetSweetTooth · May 2018

I feel it should be the adults choice on what they want to do with their body when they are in adult. Will it hurt if they choose to do it when older? Yup. But at least it is their choice.

DH is uncirc and was teased because of it. He was teased a lot in school for many things

don't like that that is his only reason for circ a boy if we have one. He also says because they won't remember it to do it. Not good enough reason for me and that is why I want to do more research!

SweetSweetTooth · May 2018

Very interesting reading everyone's thoughts and articles!! Thank you ladies for being open and sharing!

sammierose464 · May 2018

@mytrueloves I actually appreciate the directness in your posts and all of the links. I think it's refreshing for someone anti-circ to respond with facts and data instead of "omg. Circumcision is horrible and should never be done. You're horrible for even considering it." Which is how I feel the argument tends to go.

I love that we can all have open, honest conversations about these kind of things without hurt feelings, angry comments, or being rude and uncaring.

momoflogan20 · May 2018

I had DS circ. And will have this boy circ. Its just my preference and knowing (tmi) Every guy ive been with has been circumsized I would just rather do it for the social aspect. I am not religious or anything. Its not that big of the deal just my preference.

pumpkinpancake · May 2018

With us, DH is circumcised, and when we had DS, I didn’t really have a strong opinion either way, so I let DH have the final say. We decided to circumcise DS, and will do the same for this baby. I was ok with it mainly for hygienic reasons, so that he would be less likely to have issues/infections if he didn’t clean himself properly, but to be honest, I didn’t do specific research on stats for or against it. The procedure went very smoothly, and DS honestly didn’t seem overly bothered by it, and I’m glad that he will have no memory of it.

melopoly · May 2018

Thank you for making this thread! I really hate having to make this decision for my babe and its one of the reasons I’d be thrilled to have a girl (we’ll hopefully find out in 6 days). In the event it’s a boy, I’m leaning toward keeping intact. DH is circumcized and has no qualms about his son looking different. Ultimatley the scientific evidence in favor doesnt seem strong enough to justify the removal of healthy tissue that serves a purpose. We are not religious so that’s not a factor for us, but I totally respect those who are and want to uphold tradition. I did just find out that my father is uncut, and oddly enough that made me feel a lot more comfortable with the idea. Its not something that’s discussed openly so it’s hard to guage how common and socially acceptable it is.

tlmill · May 2018

With DS, I did a lot of research and still just didn’t feel strongly one way or another so the final decision was up to DH. I made him read all of the research that I did as well as told him to watch videos of a circumcision. He decided that we would have DS circumcised. I’ll leave the final decision on this one up to him as well and I’m sure it’ll be the same as DS.

chopchop25 · May 2018

I’m not going to lie, glad I don’t have to make this decision. That said, H said we would not circumcise if we had a boy. H is still intact and never had a health or social issue with it growing up, so his mind was made in doing the same if he had a son.

mytrueloves · May 2018

@DunkinDecaf Sorry for disappearing for a while, this migraine has been a doozy.
I'm gonna pre-emptively content warning / trigger warning this explanation just in case. But Brian Morris runs the website circinfo.net. For a long time, there was a page on circ info with recommended links. Several of the links on that page took users to circumfetish websites, including a website where users published erotic fiction involving circumcision. There are screenshots since the links have since been taken down, but I have seen the links myself and have seen some of the (extremely disturbing) fictional writings, most of which included minors of all ages.

@sammierose464 Thanks! I generally tend to swing that way because I figure most people don't want to hear a stranger's opinion on the topic, they want to know the facts.

knottieamusements · May 2018

I’m team green, but decided many years ago that I would not circumcise if I had a son.

I recognize that there are medical arguments for doing so, but at the same time- there are also medical arguments for not drinking soda or playing football. And I will absolutely allow my kid to do the first, and cross my fingers that I don’t have to consider the second.

For me, the issue is that if I chose to circumcise, I am making a permanent decision about the kid’s body. I can’t unmake that decision. As an adult (I’d even support them as a teenager), they can make that decision for themselves.

I will say this though- I’ve watched a few videos of infant circumcision that are pointed to as why this is a brutal procedure, and I roll my eyes. The kid is going to endure worse when they break an arm, get kneed in the groin, or any of the other things that happen to kids growing up. If you find the idea of removing a baby boy’s foreskin horrific, then the videos are horrific. But if you recognize that they are showing a standard medical procedure on an infant, then they are just disturbing because baby is baby.

Lisa3379 · May 2018

We had DS circumcised and will have this next one done as well. It really wasn’t an issue I wrestled with at all - I asked DH what we should do, he was pretty quick to say that we should, and that was that.

I felt a little bad right before he went to have it done, but yeah - it was super quick (DH went to watch) and DS came back to our hospital room like nothing had happened.

DunkinDecaf · May 2018

@mytrueloves I’m still in shock that THAT’S a fetish. Anyway. Thanks for the perspective!

jomama1618 · May 2018

Ds is not, and we've never had an issue. Any future children will not be either.

After researching we, like many others, found the scientific evidence that most places/organizations find, there simply isn't enough evidence to have a hard yes or no stance, so it helped us decide no for sure.

DH is, an had strong feelings about the fact that his body was modified without it being his decision. And even though according to drs, his circumcision was normal and routine,he has excessive scar tissue and nerve damage from it. So he wasn't really for it to start with.
Added to the fact that 5 little family members (including 2 nephews, one needed 2 revisions, one 3 and was told possibly another as he ages), had to have their's fixed, it just didn't feel right for us.

Sorry if that came off as trying to scare people, totally not. Just our experience as to why we decided.
It's a deeply personal issue and unless it's like this, too help learn/decide or someone finding out so they can properly change the kid's diaper, I think people need to mind their business about other kid's penises. (Not directed at you guys, just weird people that get fixated on if you do or don't)

Edit because I swear I can spell...

shortstack930 · May 2018

DH isn’t cut and he’s never had any issues. He doesn’t have a strong opinion either way but personally I didn’t find enough medical research to persuade me to do it so we won’t be.

pajamstagrams · May 2018

Thanks everyone for this polite and scientific discussion! This topic is something that I'm currently undecided on, and I believe DH is strongly pro-circ (because he is, and most of his friends are, etc). We'll find out in a few hours whether or not I need to bring this topic back up with him, or if we can let it temporarily die until we try for kiddo #2. I find it interesting that this is really only a debate in the US. Anyone know why the US has always had /still has higher rates of circumcision compared to the rest of the modern world?

Also @mytrueloves, I had no idea that fetish was a thing. Disgusting!

kiwi2628 · May 2018

@jemmerjams from what I can find, in the US it is purely cultural/habit, unless you are Jewish (+/- Muslim depending) and potentially has some monetary influence from insurance companies being able to charge more... From all the studies I am finding, non-US research (from first world nations) does not show any medical benefit to circumcising, so people are choosing to do it based on want vs need. In most other countries it died down once you had to pay for it exclusively out of pocket.

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