@Krysta6 holy defensive.. you put misinformation out there, and she corrected you. For you and for the benefit of all the FTMs on here who may already be confused.
Me: 28, DH: 40 Married 9/28/13 DS born 11/12/15 EDD 8/13/18
Yeah, I think the only part directed at you was the distinction between a genetic test and a screener. The rest of her comment wasn't really directed at you, just in response to the conversation. So it doesn't really seem like she "berated" you. But that's just how I read it.
@lalala2004 what @mrsbubbles-2 said, and also the quad screen bloodwork done with the NT can catch issues as well that the AS wouldn't necessarily catch.
@krysta6 I didn't intend to berate you personally, I truly blame doctors for even allowing people to believe that these tests yield positive/negative result when they do not. The commentary in the following paragraphs of my response was not directed at you but was general commentary that goes along with the discussion we've been having on this thread all day, apologies if you thought I was specifically targeting you personally.
@delujm0 it’s all good I have the flu so I may just fly off the handle a little too fast. The quote got me fuming as I actually looked into this and I’m not some idiot. But I guess I need to communicate better.
@lakesideknitter I don’t really care if anyone thinks I’m defensive. AND if FTMs are taking medical advice from an Internet forum they may want to reconsider.
@neeraja_k it’s how you said it that I have a problem with. Straight up saying that you don’t want a special needs child? You can’t always choose that, and if you weren’t going to acknowledge it, someone was bound to. I do think it’s something you need to consider before having a child. And if you found specific judgement in my simple asking of a question, it was really only meant to make you think about it, because we SHOULD think about it. Because our kids will struggle with SOMETHING at some point. Colic, bullying, mental illness, anxiety, injury, hospitalization, heartbreak, failure in school, losing a job, death of a pet or loved one. None of this shit is easy, and I do think you have to recognize what you will need to sacrifice as a parent, no matter what your child faces in this life. It’s 100% unknown what will happen in the future, but it’s guaranteed to have some inconveniences and tough shit. And of course that’s life and everyone knows that, but it’s pretty amplified when a piece of you is living outside your body.
This here is exactly how I feel. It's not your opinion that I take serious offense with but the way in which you phrased it. You described your life circumstances, how you only have "one shot" at this, and essentially made it seem as if your baby better live up to your ideal child or else.
Also (and if I'm out of line here please forgive me because I mean no offense) but it truly bothers me the way you worded it that if you lost this pregnancy, no one would ever know you were pregnant because it wouldn't be worth announcing. And because I can't tell exactly how you meant it, may I ask you to clarify?
@hfooter that almost made me lose my lunch just thinking about it. That is the worst fake cheese ever. How can you ruin something as good as cheese? But they do. I also think goldfish go in that category. edited: typo
@livinthesunnylife yes those are just as worse! When moms talk about eating their kids goldfish I want to barf! I actually don’t buy them for the kids. I try to only buy stuff I’ll eat.
on that note I also HATE hard pretzels! Why were those created? They are tasteless disgusting little things. I remember hating them when I was given them a snack at school, I chose to starve instead lol
Okay, this may be super controversial but here goes: I would almost certainly terminate my pregnancy if there is a genetic issue (after we have confirmed any positive NIPT results through an amnio or otherwise). I am surprised by how many people I have seen say they would never even consider it no matter the results of screening/testing. Aside from those with strong religious convictions (I am not religious, but I respect those who are), I don't really get it.
Regardless of what the genetic issue is? Even though an amnio isn’t 100% accurate? I personally don’t think you should make a blanket statement either way. There is a huge difference between conditions that aren’t compatible with life and and you know the baby won’t survive as conditions such as Down Syndrome or Turner’s Syndrome where they could very well lead long, productive, relatively healthy lives. Frankly, I think termination in those cases is modern eugenics, and I certainly don’t mind saying I have some serious moral issues with it, despite the fact that I don’t think abortion should be restricted. Philosophically I think we should start considering if we could screen a fetus for things like autism, ADHD, schizophrenia, what would we do? I’m not saying I have all the answers, I just think there are a lot of moral questions involved that don’t make this a simple either/or discussion.
I somehow totally missed this earlier and didn't want to just ignore it. I don't view it the same way at all and thus don't share your moral qualms. Like I said, I'm not religious, so I don't believe life happens at conception but rather that conception is just the beginning of a long process that may or may not result in a new life. For me, if screening and then subsequent testing does reveal a trisomy or another genetic mutation, it means that something went wrong during the development of our fetus, and it is up to us (as the potential parents) whether we want to allow that development to continue. I have friends who have children with a wide range of special needs and I am in awe of their parenting, but I also see the toll that it has taken on their lives, and so we would have to really evaluate and discuss any potential special needs and the impact on our finances/jobs/lives if we were to find out this early on that we had a genetic issue. I work 60-80 hours a week and am paying off six figures worth of law school loans, so I truly don't know what capacity I would have to care for a child who requires a whole lot more than a healthy child, and I don't think it would be fair to ask my husband or family to take on that extra level of care for me. I don't think people should be able to genetically engineer their offspring and am weary of advances in cloning and other similar technologies, but if something goes wrong and it is caught early enough to review all the information and make an informed decision with assistance from a doctor, I don't equate that to eugenics at all.
*TTC History*
Me: 37, MH: 38; Married August 2017
TTC #1 October 2017: BFP on 12/1/2017, DD born 7/24/2018 @ 37+1 after induction due to preeclampsia
TTC #2 January 2020: AMA, dx with DOR in May 2020
IVF July 2020: 16 eggs retrieved, 14 mature, 12 fertilized, 3 blasts, 2 PGT-A normal
FET 10/7/20: BFP on 10/12/20!!! (EDD 6/25/21); First beta 10/16/20 (9dpt): 148; Second beta 10/19/20 (12dpt): 621; Third beta 10/26/20 (19dpt): 4732; Fourth (and final!) beta 11/2/20 (26 dpt): 22,000+
@lalala2004 I just had my intake visit with the midwife like an hour ago and asked her if there is anything the NT scan could pick up that the anatomy scan wouldn’t and she said no but it’s obviously earlier and some people prefer that. But I didn’t ask about the accompanying blood work so I’m not sure!
I have so many feels about this whole topic and can see both sides. I do know that it's leaving me feeling a bit yuck about the whole thing.
The financial costs of raising a special needs child is a valid factor and one that I'd consider as well. But I'd also feel completely crappy for essentially putting a dollar value on my kids life.
Its a crappy situation for anyone to ever be in, that's for sure.
I have so many feels about this whole topic and can see both sides. I do know that it's leaving me feeling a bit yuck about the whole thing.
The financial costs of raising a special needs child is a valid factor and one that I'd consider as well. But I'd also feel completely crappy for essentially putting a dollar value on my kids life.
Its a crappy situation for anyone to ever be in, that's for sure.
I think that's part of the beauty of having a large group of people. Everyone has their own beliefs and opinions and some topics are easier to talk about than others. This one is a hot topic for many reasons but it's also very prevalent in all of our lives right now so feelings are even higher. For how controversial of a topic this is, I think it's actually been handled with grace by everyone here.
@legallykate again, it was more how you said it, just that flat out if there were a genetic issue you would terminate. I absolutely understand that you may make that choice, but when it came down to it, you *might* feel differently. Just as you said you were surprised people said they wouldn’t terminate for any reason. So I don’t think it’s wise to make a blanket statement either way. And I have to disagree with you on it being eugenics, because Down Syndrome has decreased significantly overall and in some countries it has almost ceased to exist. Eugenics is trying to improve the genetics of the human race, and through science, some of these conditions are being almost eliminated. Now I’m not an advocate for bills that have come forth trying to ban abortion due to Down syndrome. I don’t think you should mess with that choice, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a moral question when there are people living with Down syndrome today that are being sent a message that it would have been better had they not been born. Of course, when making a personal decision for your life and family I get that’s not your responsibility, but it hurts my heart, nonetheless.
UO has been really intense today so mine is silly in comparison but, it drives me crazy when people ask for advise and say “and go” omg like nails on a chalk board. “ looking for a good local dog groomer And Goooo”
like thats going to make anyone add there advice vs not having it there.
Keto (butter/CO) coffee is awesome when super hot! Especially when made with an immersion blender... Mmmmm. But once it cools, it loses all appeal and then some. Lol
Was working yesterday so I’m catching up now. Page 1 (don’t even ask me to remember tags): 1) always used to think it was weird calling the baby by it’s name, though being team green is was moot for me. Now that we know I have been using her name - not a ton but in my head, with my kids (and it is a great way for them to connect) and with my mom/sisters like ‘when Ruby’s here...’ being a lossmom it’s helped me. In the past I always called the baby ‘baby’ like baby is kicking!
2) hoping to avoid dc mainly bc it’s hella $. My oldest was in it PT for 2 years. It was fine. I preferred being gone with him, having family help. I’m working PT now around dh schedule.
3) can’t fathom what we’d do with bad results. No judgment on anyone for their choice. A dx that is incompatible with life? We’d terminate. Less than that I just don’t know.
4) still not into the long randoms, uo, etc. sorry not sorry. If you want and are a contributing regular member which I think I am, if you can’t be on constantly through the day (I can’t at all working really and the app drains my battery so I try not to keep it open) it’s so hard to keep up. I miss topic based threads, though this bmb is soooo much nicer and less rigid than the 2 I left early. whenever everyone’s ready for fb I’ll be there - the bumpis just too hard. But I’m not trying to push - I know ppl are t there yet
ive been on both sides with early testing. We skipped it for 1-3. I wasn’t high risk, and in my real life I’ve known people on both ends of the range - those who had ‘low risk’ results and had a birth dx and my sister was high risk for... oh I’m blanking on the name. Hole in spinal cord. Further level 2 u/s determines is was not an issue but it gave her a very high level of worry and stress her whole preg, and pushed her into a high risk pool which impacted birth decisions. She opted out of the test for 2-3.
ANYHOW. I fully understand the nature of a screening test and how the odds work but in my own life it seemed so inaccurate, that I didn’t think I could trust the results either way. Further, I am not willing to do an amnio or cvs because of the risks. Again with the anecdotes, but my aunt had an amnio loss years ago. I felt like, without being willing to find out the results definitively, it didn’t make sense to get a ‘maybe.’
This time, I am higher risk due to age and repeat mc, and we are stretched more thinly with our 3 kids, who are here and the first priority. The blood test being an option now has better accuracy than the nt, and frankly, we wanted to know the sex. I’m also getting the nt though, Monday, and hopefully in combination the (fx) low risk results will be more accurate. And i also being pgal am glad to lay eyes on her and see she’s ok still.
I think it’s very personal and everyone has different circumstances which will inform how they approach testing and decisions if they are necessary. No matter what these baby are all loved and I think ppl should be given grace in possibly facing a heart wrenching choice. No matter what it isn’t easy. And regardless of how it’s wriiten here I doubt anyone makes their choice lightly.
And now I see we are trying to lighten back up (catching up fail).
let me think of a UO. Not sure how unpopular this is but on my previous Bmbs it would be majorly flame worthy.
Really, regardless of my post above, the reason I did the nipt testing is to find out the sex. If we didn’t find out the sex with it I doubt I would have bothered. We both had a preference, and NEEDED to be able to just know and deal with it emotionally. I’m thrilled that we are having a girl, as we hoped for, but if it was a boy I needed to have the time to mourn the girl I wouldn’t have and get my head on straight. I was glad to find out early bc it was getting harder to avoid ‘hope’
@pghctwife I'm in the same boat as you I feel super behind.
1) I'm working on putting DS in daycare starting at 18m and getting a lot of crap from my parents about it but he loves being around other kids and I think it's what's best for him. Also other than my mom they do a horrible job watching, not putting him down for nap, forgetting to feed him breakfast, etc. Honestly if it wasn't so expensive we would have had him in earlier.
2) Count me on this list of not liking super dramatic shows, I prefer comedy or syfy
3) My insurance doesn't cover any ultrasounds. Not the dating, NT, anatomy, none of them. As for the rest of this I personally I feel like this is the type of conversation I need to do in person. So much is lost when you're just typing words.
4) I hate goldfish, pretzels and cheezits. Y'all are crazy. Give me peanutbutter crackers or pita chips. Bagel chips are also awesome.
I have to say I think DS is definitely better off at daycare than at home all day with us. He loves to be around the other kids and he learns so much more and does more arts and crafts and has more outside time than he would at home. It has helped him developmentally for sure. Also my mom is a lazy babysitter so even with that option, I’d choose “school” for DS ha.
The midwife practice I go to doesn’t do early testing normally until the 20 week anatomy scan. Seeing this conversation though has prompted me to (check with insurance and) request it at my first appt Monday. It rubbed me the wrong way in my first pregnancy that the anatomy scan is so far along in the process and this issue is why, but I just went along with it as a ftm because I didn’t want to question my care.
I would support any woman’s decision to do what is best for herself and her family, even if I didn’t agree with it. Here’s to hoping that none of us have to be in a difficult situation like that though.
Not sure if this is a true UO or more of a FFFC but while I like this board, and I am a super scheduled, organized person IRL, I am having a hard time keeping up and always responding to people because since all the titles of posts are repeats and the same every week, I am having a hard time remembering who posted what, where to go back to. Or conversations get really lost to me because there can be like 20 different topics happening in the randoms post for example every week.
I've been a part of a board that developed from the Knot since back in 2006 and we transferred over to a free private board on Activeboard and everything is just topic focused so maybe that's why I am having a time with the general titles of things!
Agree with @scottishlass1213. I was part of the BMBs back in 2013 and it wasn't this "organized". It's def why I don't comment as much as I want to. As an OCD person I do appreciate the organization, just have to get used to it I suppose.
Re: Unpopular Opinion 1/25
Married 9/28/13
DS born 11/12/15
EDD 8/13/18
@krysta6 I didn't intend to berate you personally, I truly blame doctors for even allowing people to believe that these tests yield positive/negative result when they do not. The commentary in the following paragraphs of my response was not directed at you but was general commentary that goes along with the discussion we've been having on this thread all day, apologies if you thought I was specifically targeting you personally.
@lakesideknitter I don’t really care if anyone thinks I’m defensive. AND if FTMs are taking medical advice from an Internet forum they may want to reconsider.
edited because words are hard
Also (and if I'm out of line here please forgive me because I mean no offense) but it truly bothers me the way you worded it that if you lost this pregnancy, no one would ever know you were pregnant because it wouldn't be worth announcing. And because I can't tell exactly how you meant it, may I ask you to clarify?
I can’t think of anything else as we’ve had enough butting heads today.
edited: typo
I love fake cheese. Lol
on that note I also HATE hard pretzels! Why were those created? They are tasteless disgusting little things. I remember hating them when I was given them a snack at school, I chose to starve instead lol
August 18 Siggy Challenge: April Showers
Me: 37, MH: 38; Married August 2017
TTC #1 October 2017: BFP on 12/1/2017, DD born 7/24/2018 @ 37+1 after induction due to preeclampsia
TTC #2 January 2020: AMA, dx with DOR in May 2020
IVF July 2020: 16 eggs retrieved, 14 mature, 12 fertilized, 3 blasts, 2 PGT-A normal
FET 10/7/20: BFP on 10/12/20!!! (EDD 6/25/21); First beta 10/16/20 (9dpt): 148; Second beta 10/19/20 (12dpt): 621; Third beta 10/26/20 (19dpt): 4732; Fourth (and final!) beta 11/2/20 (26 dpt): 22,000+
DS: 5.28.15
DS#2: EDD 8.31.18
@lalala2004 I just had my intake visit with the midwife like an hour ago and asked her if there is anything the NT scan could pick up that the anatomy scan wouldn’t and she said no but it’s obviously earlier and some people prefer that. But I didn’t ask about the accompanying blood work so I’m not sure!
The financial costs of raising a special needs child is a valid factor and one that I'd consider as well. But I'd also feel completely crappy for essentially putting a dollar value on my kids life.
Its a crappy situation for anyone to ever be in, that's for sure.
August 18 Siggy Challenge: April Showers
“ looking for a good local dog groomer And Goooo”
like thats going to make anyone add there advice vs not having it there.
DH:45
DSD: 20
DSS: 18
Team green baby due: Aug 6th, 2018
Oops just saw @mrslittlemac mention this!!
1) always used to think it was weird calling the baby by it’s name, though being team green is was moot for me. Now that we know I have been using her name - not a ton but in my head, with my kids (and it is a great way for them to connect) and with my mom/sisters like ‘when Ruby’s here...’
being a lossmom it’s helped me. In the past I always called the baby ‘baby’ like baby is kicking!
2) hoping to avoid dc mainly bc it’s hella $. My oldest was in it PT for 2 years. It was fine. I preferred being gone with him, having family help. I’m working PT now around dh schedule.
3) can’t fathom what we’d do with bad results. No judgment on anyone for their choice. A dx that is incompatible with life? We’d terminate. Less than that I just don’t know.
4) still not into the long randoms, uo, etc. sorry not sorry. If you want and are a contributing regular member which I think I am, if you can’t be on constantly through the day (I can’t at all working really and the app drains my battery so I try not to keep it open) it’s so hard to keep up. I miss topic based threads, though this bmb is soooo much nicer and less rigid than the 2 I left early.
whenever everyone’s ready for fb I’ll be there - the bumpis just too hard. But I’m not trying to push - I know ppl are t there yet
11/18/16 missed m/c 9w1
08/03/17 no hb 8w
ive been on both sides with early testing. We skipped it for 1-3. I wasn’t high risk, and in my real life I’ve known people on both ends of the range - those who had ‘low risk’ results and had a birth dx and my sister was high risk for... oh I’m blanking on the name. Hole in spinal cord. Further level 2 u/s determines is was not an issue but it gave her a very high level of worry and stress her whole preg, and pushed her into a high risk pool which impacted birth decisions. She opted out of the test for 2-3.
ANYHOW. I fully understand the nature of a screening test and how the odds work but in my own life it seemed so inaccurate, that I didn’t think I could trust the results either way. Further, I am not willing to do an amnio or cvs because of the risks. Again with the anecdotes, but my aunt had an amnio loss years ago. I felt like, without being willing to find out the results definitively, it didn’t make sense to get a ‘maybe.’
This time, I am higher risk due to age and repeat mc, and we are stretched more thinly with our 3 kids, who are here and the first priority. The blood test being an option now has better accuracy than the nt, and frankly, we wanted to know the sex. I’m also getting the nt though, Monday, and hopefully in combination the (fx) low risk results will be more accurate. And i also being pgal am glad to lay eyes on her and see she’s ok still.
I think it’s very personal and everyone has different circumstances which will inform how they approach testing and decisions if they are necessary. No matter what these baby are all loved and I think ppl should be given grace in possibly facing a heart wrenching choice. No matter what it isn’t easy. And regardless of how it’s wriiten here I doubt anyone makes their choice lightly.
11/18/16 missed m/c 9w1
08/03/17 no hb 8w
let me think of a UO. Not sure how unpopular this is but on my previous Bmbs it would be majorly flame worthy.
Really, regardless of my post above, the reason I did the nipt testing is to find out the sex. If we didn’t find out the sex with it I doubt I would have bothered. We both had a preference, and NEEDED to be able to just know and deal with it emotionally. I’m thrilled that we are having a girl, as we hoped for, but if it was a boy I needed to have the time to mourn the girl I wouldn’t have and get my head on straight. I was glad to find out early bc it was getting harder to avoid ‘hope’
11/18/16 missed m/c 9w1
08/03/17 no hb 8w
Im a super planner and I hate surprises so finding out earlier was the bonus.
1) I'm working on putting DS in daycare starting at 18m and getting a lot of crap from my parents about it but he loves being around other kids and I think it's what's best for him. Also other than my mom they do a horrible job watching, not putting him down for nap, forgetting to feed him breakfast, etc. Honestly if it wasn't so expensive we would have had him in earlier.
2) Count me on this list of not liking super dramatic shows, I prefer comedy or syfy
3) My insurance doesn't cover any ultrasounds. Not the dating, NT, anatomy, none of them. As for the rest of this I personally I feel like this is the type of conversation I need to do in person. So much is lost when you're just typing words.
4) I hate goldfish, pretzels and cheezits. Y'all are crazy. Give me peanutbutter crackers or pita chips. Bagel chips are also awesome.
Edit because autocorrect is stupid
The midwife practice I go to doesn’t do early testing normally until the 20 week anatomy scan. Seeing this conversation though has prompted me to (check with insurance and) request it at my first appt Monday. It rubbed me the wrong way in my first pregnancy that the anatomy scan is so far along in the process and this issue is why, but I just went along with it as a ftm because I didn’t want to question my care.
I would support any woman’s decision to do what is best for herself and her family, even if I didn’t agree with it. Here’s to hoping that none of us have to be in a difficult situation like that though.