@bassetlover1 yes! The trigger is usually (not always) intramuscular... it’s also strong (usually 10000 units) so it can burn. The muscle can be sore too! So exited for you! Saturday retrieval!!
@knottie0635bfe61a4fac27 I have done your cycle (estrogen priming antagonist) only MINUS the clomid.... Is it being used before, during or before AND during stimming? Will you also be using Ganerelix or cetrotide? Lots of clinics add some special sauce to a classic antagonist cycle. In my case, my added special sauce is adding Human Growth Hormone (HGH) to my last cycle and upcoming cycle. Estrogen priming is also basically an add on as not every person gets it. ETA: I just googled it and found several sites discussing it as well as clinic sites that mention it. One clinic mostly uses it with mini/micro-ivf, so lower doses of the other drugs.. do you know your drug doses? On the other sites, most of the ladies discussing were using HIGH doses of the stimulating drugs, so I guess it really depends on you and your clinic as to how its used.
@dragonette505. I did clomid at the beginning of my cycle for 5 days. Then on day 5 and 6, did gonal f 150 and menopur 75. I will be taking cetrotide also. This doc today at my appointment mentioned that clomid usually gives it a slow start, as I only have 1 follie and the rest are very small.
@knottie0635bfe61a4fac27 hmmm was there some specific reason they chose clomid for you, then? I know clomid is most frequently used for IUI. I personally haven't run across too many women using clomid in their ivf cycles on here (I honestly cant remember one, but I'm certain its just because I didn't notice). Your doses are not very high... middle of the road for the gonal-f, but pretty low for the menopur.... It sounds like maybe they are doing something like a mini ivf with you where they are trying to get just a few really good follies? I would ask (if you feel comfortable) what is the plan/goal... how many follies do they expect to be able to retrieve from you and stuff like that.
Thanks everyone for the input on my next protocol. Ive been away for a few days, just needed to regroup after the news. I just thought that after 4 cycles I’d have at least something frozen, you know? Anyway, back to the waiting for what will be my last cycle. Trying to eat healthfully and count my blessings.
@Momifbysea So glad you are back in the saddle! I had three cycles where I walked away with nothing and honestly I felt like my world ended... like id lost a child. But it always helped to get back on plan. I'm hoping switching up your cycle will be the magic ticket for you... any idea when you would start bcp's?
@knottie0635bfe61a4fac27 It is hard to grasp it all.... I definitely didn't know anything in my first cycle, and i'd read 3 durn books about ART... It doesn't make sense till you are DOING the stuff and can put things into context. Also, all the little things we ivf veterans talk about that sounds like code makes no sense till you start wanting to know these details for your own cycle... then the light goes off and you can make more sense of it
@dragonette505. So I was reading about mini IVF with clomid and it seems like it does have a slow start and does tend to go longer than traditional IVF, which is ok as long as we have a few good healthy eggs. Praying and praying!
Had my egg retrieval yesterday. Wow is that bit painful. They got 18 eggs! So now I’m just patiently, not really, waiting for my fertilization phone call today.
@bassetlover1 that’s awesome!! So happy for you. Are you getting pgs?
Still nothing for me, and so they increased my menopur to 150, and started cetrotide as well. How much of menopur have you guys been taking?
Last cycle I did 150 follistim and 150 menopur.... I’ve done much higher doses of follistim as well on past cycles (up to 250 or 275.... can’t remember) but usually no higher than 150 menopur.
I go in for my blood test on Thursday and I am so nervous! I thought the two week wait was super long and difficult but I am realizing now it's much easier here in a place of uncertainty than it is to face the possibility it didn't work. I would test at home first, but I do this thing every time I get a negative where I convince myself that I am pregnant but part of the 0.01% of people that are pregnant but don't turn positive pregnancy tests. I scour the Internet for stories about women who fall into this category- they are always a friend of a cousin of the person who is posting it, so it's extra far-fetched and I eat it up anyway...so there is no point in testing myself. Anyone else have a test coming up?
@morganelizabeth123 so excited for your beta!! I don’t know how people wait to test till Beta! I need to have some idea about what to expect when o get my call. Maybe testing the morning of beta is a good compromise? If you use a digi you will know your hcg is at least 50 and above if you get a positive:)
I’m back. I’ve had trouble logging in and actually thought I was going crazy. Glad to see there’s an actual ongoing issue. Lol. But I’ve been lurking and reading!
I am on day 12 of stims and we think one more day. I have one at 18.5 and a couple at 17.... and then a ton around bith 13-14 and some at 9.... I know those aren’t likely to be mature. So I’m now hoping to grab maybe 4. Which makes me sad but hopefully they are 4 strong ones. And 4 is just a number I made up to try and temper expectations.
I have been on 375 of Follistim and 1 menopur for a few days now. Since Friday? Anyway.... fingers crossed for some last minute growth.
I’m back. I’ve had trouble logging in and actually thought I was going crazy. Glad to see there’s an actual ongoing issue. Lol. But I’ve been lurking and reading!
I am on day 12 of stims and we think one more day. I have one at 18.5 and a couple at 17.... and then a ton around bith 13-14 and some at 9.... I know those aren’t likely to be mature. So I’m now hoping to grab maybe 4. Which makes me sad but hopefully they are 4 strong ones. And 4 is just a number I made up to try and temper expectations.
I have been on 375 of Follistim and 1 menopur for a few days now. Since Friday? Anyway.... fingers crossed for some last minute growth.
Follies usually continue to grow even after trigger... its likely you will get some of those 13/14's if you trigger say thursday
I’m CD11 went in for my BW and ultrasound today. Still nothing substantial. So worried and nervous. I’m living at my parents, away from my husband and life....this is so frustrating
Sad news. All 4 of my embryos came back abnormal. Just got call about an hour ago. I am DEVASTATED to say the least. DH is super sad of course. I have follow up with doctor tomorrow. From what we researched, probability of someone my age having ZERO normal embryos is very low. Bad luck!!!!! DH and I both agreed that we would only do one IVF cycle. I am ok with using donor eggs. What questions should I ask doctor tomorrow? Is there a way for us to know whether issue is egg quality or whether it is sperm? Before testing, we were told that we had two "great" day 5 looking embryos. If sperm was the issue, would embryos have made it that far?
Thank you all for your support. I was tempted to stop writing here but I think forum is only useful if individuals like me share their setbacks. Hope my failure can help someone else.
I’m CD11 went in for my BW and ultrasound today. Still nothing substantial. So worried and nervous. I’m living at my parents, away from my husband and life....this is so frustrating
Ugh... where are your follies at this point and do they have any idea when you might trigger. Also, have they upped your meds at all???
Sad news. All 4 of my embryos came back abnormal. Just got call about an hour ago. I am DEVASTATED to say the least. DH is super sad of course. I have follow up with doctor tomorrow. From what we researched, probability of someone my age having ZERO normal embryos is very low. Bad luck!!!!! DH and I both agreed that we would only do one IVF cycle. I am ok with using donor eggs. What questions should I ask doctor tomorrow? Is there a way for us to know whether issue is egg quality or whether it is sperm? Before testing, we were told that we had two "great" day 5 looking embryos. If sperm was the issue, would embryos have made it that far?
Thank you all for your support. I was tempted to stop writing here but I think forum is only useful if individuals like me share their setbacks. Hope my failure can help someone else.
Hey.... I'm so sorry. I have been there and I know how devastating it is to get this result. They can usually tell who the problem is based on which chromosome the error is on. I'm not sure if they will have done that with your testing but generally these things are said to be egg problems. With my *tw miscarriages in one case they were able to test the baby and it was my issue not my DH's. You can ask if they were testing to see which side the error came from, but most likely they will just tell you they *know* its from you anyway.... high probability of them being right. What they can do for your DH's sperm to help pick the best of his sperm is to use picsi on his sample when selecting for fertilizing the DE. Sending hugs and strength
@dragonette505 Thanks. Do you mind elaborating further on what you mean by error on chromosome? Does that mean that error should be the same? I want to ask best questions possible. Also, do you think having DH test for sperm DNA fragmentation is worth it? This is something he wanted to do before IVF but was not recommended by doctors.
@maggier79 well when they test each chromosome, they ought to be able to tell which bunch comes from momma and which from poppa... I mean, 23 and me can do that for 90 bucks. I'm not sure if its part of the testing they do with PGS, but I know its doable. They usually know if its an extra chromosome on 10 or 21 or whichever place has the error. The extra will come from either the egg or the sperm. And its *possible* the sperm comes in with problems. But the biggest problem usually happens during meiosis and that is usually the fault of the egg which powers that process... which is why probably they don't really care which side the extra comes from. If the egg is not healthy it will not be able to power the process that divides the nuclear chromosomes of both egg and sperm and kicks out the half not being used (which goes into the polar body outside of the embie). The sperm doesn't start adding power to the process till after day 3 (which is *part* of why so many die after the day 3 check). I only did PGS on my first 2 cycles since (a) PGS isn't totally accurate and even girls on here have had embies retested at other labs and have come back as normal. and (b) embryos have a small percentage of chance to "self correct" so some number of "abnormal" embies have gone on to make perfectly normal babies. Since right now, this process is very inexpensive for me, I'm taking the chance to try to find one golden egg (but have already begun to consider DE). When I did do the PGS, I was too devastated to even wonder in that moment if it could be my DH's fault. Every time ive asked since, docs say... look it was the egg. (probably because old eggs do meiosis badly) Whatever.... That's what they will always believe. If you think theres any way it could be the fault of the sperm, for sure check it out before you spend any more money on cycles (even DE cycles which are also hella costly). Picsi can help to see if the sperm has the proper protein to propagate a pregnancy, but I'm sure the fragmentation test is the gold standard of actual individual sperm health.
@dragonette505 Thanks for detailed explanation. I want to make sure that I understand correctly. Report should state which chromosome has the error. Embryo should have 23 chromosomes from DH and 23 from me. Abornal embryo has an extra chromosome somewhere. PGS report should tell whether error came from DH or me. Does that sound correct?
I should have payed attention to biology class, but right now I am too emotional to even think : (
@maggier79 I'm actually not sure if the report will say where the error comes from... I cant remember mine (like you, my mind was completely blown by the results) but that would also depend on if they were looking to see that. My guess is you can find out the types of errors/abnormality of each embie, sex of each embie. In most cases the fault will be in the inability of the egg to properly parse out the proper number of chromosomes. But I think it IS possible to find out if perhaps the sperm came in with the wrong number of chromosomes... Here is a quickie article that should tell you a bit less confusingly than me https://www.fertilitysmarts.com/intro-to-preimplantation-genetic-screening-pgs/2/1205 but the main point being they *should* be able to know this: "If an egg or a sperm is missing a chromosome, then the embryo created from that egg will also be missing a chromosome and a whole set of instructions. If there is an extra chromosome in an egg, the embryo will be abnormal, having twice as many copies of those instructions than it should have. Down Syndrome is one example of a genetic disorder that can be caused by an additional copy of a chromosome." So that would be if the sperm came into the egg with the wrong number of chromosomes... I'm not sure if they are able to differentiate between that and if your egg doesn't properly divide the chromosomes properly. I know like I said with my TW mc...they could tell me: error on chromosome 10...mothers fault. If they can tell me this at just 6 weeks, why not be able to tell you this with your embies?
Still lurking...I’m sorry @maggier79 My June cycle yielded 3/3 abnormals (my April cycle 4/5 abnormal), but with a three month break, change in RE and lab and protocol my last cycle in September yielded 4 normals - changing things up can make a difference! See what your RE might do differently.
About me: Married 6/18/16 (Me 42, DH 44), TTC #2 ***TW***
Natural BFP 8/10/16 --> mc our NIPT-normal little girl at 11w5d on 10/1/16 As of 12/2016: AMH 1.42, FSH 6.1, AFC ~10 Self-benched Nov-Dec 2016 for IVF #1 Jan-Feb 2017 (OCP, testosterone primed antagonist w/HGH - ER 2/2/17 - 12R, 7M ICSI'd, 3F, 0B) IVF #2 Mar-Apr 2017 (testosterone primed agonist/luteal lupron w/HGH - ER 4/8/17 - 10R, 8M, 8F, 5B, 1 PGS normal) IVF #3 May-Jun 2017 (testosterone primed agonist/luteal lupron w/HGH - ER 6/4/17 - 14R, 5F, 3B, 0 normal) **New RE** IVF #4 Sept 2017 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 9/28/17 - 33R, 18F, 10B, 4 PGS normals!) FET #1 (medicated) of one PGS normal 4AA XX 11/2/17 - Beta #1 11/11/17 (153), Beta #2 11/13/17 (324), mc at 5w1d on 11/19/17 IVF #5 Dec 2017 - Insemination of 9 frozen eggs from 2012 (8F, 1B, 0 normal) Jan 2018 - Natural cycle ERA (normal/receptive) & stimming for IVF #6 Jan-Feb 2018 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 2/3/18 - 17R, 6M, 4F, 0 blasts) IVF #7 Feb 2018 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 2/26/18 - 19R, 9M, 9F, 4B, 2 PGS normals) FET #2 Apr 2018 (natural cycle w/o trigger, w/P4 support) of one PGS normal 4AA- XX 4/5/18 - Beta #1 4/14/18 (67), Beta #2 4/16/18 (231) Rainbow baby girl born 12/16/2018 (via c-section, induced at 39 weeks)
----- TFAS! FET #3 Dec 2019 (natural cycle w/o trigger, w/P4 support) of one PGS normal 3BB XY 12/16/19 - Beta #1 12/24/19 (139), Beta #2 12/27/19 (482)
@maggier79, I’m so sorry... can you maybe see what information and results come in before deciding not to repeat a cycle. MH and i had that talk originally but he didn’t understand the ways protocols can change. Honestly, I didn’t either to the extent I do now. And there are reasons to repeat.
@dragonette505, you are sadly a pro and hope you don’t mind this question.
i missed the nurse, but she called to say I need to do Ganerelix am and pm and up menopur to 2 vials. Do you think this means no trigger tomorrow and they want more time? Or... I’m showing signs of ovulation and am more likely to go tomorrow?
i know you can’t say for sure...but until I get a call back. Curious for your opinion.
@happyin14 when do they next want you to come in... For the last days of your cycle it may be a day by day process (some cycles I went in every day for 4 days till trigger was decided). What is your normal meds dose. My guess is they want as much time and hormone to mature as many as possible without you getting your surge to O. But taking 2 ganerelix is totally fine (my last cycle I did 2 per day once I started and that is normal for that clinic). In other words, they wont know until they see you again. They have to see what your hormones are doing VS your follie size. If you get enough large looking follies they will probably let you trigger tomorrow or day after
Thanks, @dragonette505. I go back tomorrow am... and am deciding what meds to buy. I had been doing 1 vial all along with 375 follistim. (Started at 150 and have been increased throughout.) This is day 7 of ganerelix in the am.
*******Trigger Warning*********
But also, if I trigger Thursday, I miss my kid’s bday party... which is a huge deal. DS1 died just before his 3rd birthday. This is DS2’s 3rd birthday. And I really want to be part of this huge milestone. I know I just gotta do what’s best for my cycle but man that’s hard. I just gotta get through until tomorrow.
@happyin14 Ugh... that's tough. I almost ALWAYS have retrieval on the most inconvenient possible day. Honestly I wouldn't know what to do if things went to plan for me. Hmmmm I wonder where your estrogen is at (did they give you that number?) Hopefully the higher menopur will help get these follies fattening up
As for me, my doc has canceled my cycle. So I’m really emotional right now as well. Don’t know where to turn. Doc says he’ll prob change protocols for the next cycle, but I’m just numb right now
Re: October IVF
So exited for you! Saturday retrieval!!
Lots of clinics add some special sauce to a classic antagonist cycle. In my case, my added special sauce is adding Human Growth Hormone (HGH) to my last cycle and upcoming cycle. Estrogen priming is also basically an add on as not every person gets it.
ETA: I just googled it and found several sites discussing it as well as clinic sites that mention it. One clinic mostly uses it with mini/micro-ivf, so lower doses of the other drugs.. do you know your drug doses? On the other sites, most of the ladies discussing were using HIGH doses of the stimulating drugs, so I guess it really depends on you and your clinic as to how its used.
@knottie0635bfe61a4fac27 It is hard to grasp it all.... I definitely didn't know anything in my first cycle, and i'd read 3 durn books about ART... It doesn't make sense till you are DOING the stuff and can put things into context. Also, all the little things we ivf veterans talk about that sounds like code makes no sense till you start wanting to know these details for your own cycle... then the light goes off and you can make more sense of it
@Momifbysea So glad to see you back.
@knottie0635bfe61a4fac27 I also grow slow. My retrieval was on day 14.
Still nothing for me, and so they increased my menopur to 150, and started cetrotide as well. How much of menopur have you guys been taking?
I would test at home first, but I do this thing every time I get a negative where I convince myself that I am pregnant but part of the 0.01% of people that are pregnant but don't turn positive pregnancy tests. I scour the Internet for stories about women who fall into this category- they are always a friend of a cousin of the person who is posting it, so it's extra far-fetched and I eat it up anyway...so there is no point in testing myself.
Anyone else have a test coming up?
I am on day 12 of stims and we think one more day. I have one at 18.5 and a couple at 17.... and then a ton around bith 13-14 and some at 9.... I know those aren’t likely to be mature. So I’m now hoping to grab maybe 4. Which makes me sad but hopefully they are 4 strong ones. And 4 is just a number I made up to try and temper expectations.
I have been on 375 of Follistim and 1 menopur for a few days now. Since Friday? Anyway.... fingers crossed for some last minute growth.
Follies usually continue to grow even after trigger... its likely you will get some of those 13/14's if you trigger say thursday
Thank you all for your support. I was tempted to stop writing here but I think forum is only useful if individuals like me share their setbacks. Hope my failure can help someone else.
Ugh... where are your follies at this point and do they have any idea when you might trigger. Also, have they upped your meds at all???
Hey.... I'm so sorry. I have been there and I know how devastating it is to get this result. They can usually tell who the problem is based on which chromosome the error is on. I'm not sure if they will have done that with your testing but generally these things are said to be egg problems. With my *tw miscarriages in one case they were able to test the baby and it was my issue not my DH's.
You can ask if they were testing to see which side the error came from, but most likely they will just tell you they *know* its from you anyway.... high probability of them being right. What they can do for your DH's sperm to help pick the best of his sperm is to use picsi on his sample when selecting for fertilizing the DE. Sending hugs and strength
But the biggest problem usually happens during meiosis and that is usually the fault of the egg which powers that process... which is why probably they don't really care which side the extra comes from. If the egg is not healthy it will not be able to power the process that divides the nuclear chromosomes of both egg and sperm and kicks out the half not being used (which goes into the polar body outside of the embie). The sperm doesn't start adding power to the process till after day 3 (which is *part* of why so many die after the day 3 check).
I only did PGS on my first 2 cycles since (a) PGS isn't totally accurate and even girls on here have had embies retested at other labs and have come back as normal. and (b) embryos have a small percentage of chance to "self correct" so some number of "abnormal" embies have gone on to make perfectly normal babies. Since right now, this process is very inexpensive for me, I'm taking the chance to try to find one golden egg (but have already begun to consider DE). When I did do the PGS, I was too devastated to even wonder in that moment if it could be my DH's fault. Every time ive asked since, docs say... look it was the egg. (probably because old eggs do meiosis badly) Whatever.... That's what they will always believe. If you think theres any way it could be the fault of the sperm, for sure check it out before you spend any more money on cycles (even DE cycles which are also hella costly). Picsi can help to see if the sperm has the proper protein to propagate a pregnancy, but I'm sure the fragmentation test is the gold standard of actual individual sperm health.
I should have payed attention to biology class, but right now I am too emotional to even think : (
Here is a quickie article that should tell you a bit less confusingly than me
https://www.fertilitysmarts.com/intro-to-preimplantation-genetic-screening-pgs/2/1205
but the main point being they *should* be able to know this:
"If an egg or a sperm is missing a chromosome, then the embryo created from that egg will also be missing a chromosome and a whole set of instructions. If there is an extra chromosome in an egg, the embryo will be abnormal, having twice as many copies of those instructions than it should have. Down Syndrome is one example of a genetic disorder that can be caused by an additional copy of a chromosome." So that would be if the sperm came into the egg with the wrong number of chromosomes...
I'm not sure if they are able to differentiate between that and if your egg doesn't properly divide the chromosomes properly.
I know like I said with my TW mc...they could tell me: error on chromosome 10...mothers fault. If they can tell me this at just 6 weeks, why not be able to tell you this with your embies?
Married 6/18/16 (Me 42, DH 44), TTC #2
***TW***
As of 12/2016: AMH 1.42, FSH 6.1, AFC ~10
Self-benched Nov-Dec 2016 for
IVF #1 Jan-Feb 2017 (OCP, testosterone primed antagonist w/HGH - ER 2/2/17 - 12R, 7M ICSI'd, 3F, 0B)
IVF #2 Mar-Apr 2017 (testosterone primed agonist/luteal lupron w/HGH - ER 4/8/17 - 10R, 8M, 8F, 5B, 1 PGS normal)
IVF #3 May-Jun 2017 (testosterone primed agonist/luteal lupron w/HGH - ER 6/4/17 - 14R, 5F, 3B, 0 normal)
**New RE**
IVF #4 Sept 2017 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 9/28/17 - 33R, 18F, 10B, 4 PGS normals!)
FET #1 (medicated) of one PGS normal 4AA XX 11/2/17 - Beta #1 11/11/17 (153), Beta #2 11/13/17 (324), mc at 5w1d on 11/19/17
IVF #5 Dec 2017 - Insemination of 9 frozen eggs from 2012 (8F, 1B, 0 normal)
Jan 2018 - Natural cycle ERA (normal/receptive) & stimming for
IVF #6 Jan-Feb 2018 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 2/3/18 - 17R, 6M, 4F, 0 blasts)
IVF #7 Feb 2018 (natural start microdose lupron flare w/HGH - ER 2/26/18 - 19R, 9M, 9F, 4B, 2 PGS normals)
FET #2 Apr 2018 (natural cycle w/o trigger, w/P4 support) of one PGS normal 4AA- XX 4/5/18 - Beta #1 4/14/18 (67), Beta #2 4/16/18 (231)
Rainbow baby girl born 12/16/2018 (via c-section, induced at 39 weeks)
-----
TFAS!
FET #3 Dec 2019 (natural cycle w/o trigger, w/P4 support) of one PGS normal 3BB XY 12/16/19 - Beta #1 12/24/19 (139), Beta #2 12/27/19 (482)
i missed the nurse, but she called to say I need to do Ganerelix am and pm and up menopur to 2 vials. Do you think this means no trigger tomorrow and they want more time? Or... I’m showing signs of ovulation and am more likely to go tomorrow?
i know you can’t say for sure...but until I get a call back. Curious for your opinion.
My guess is they want as much time and hormone to mature as many as possible without you getting your surge to O. But taking 2 ganerelix is totally fine (my last cycle I did 2 per day once I started and that is normal for that clinic).
In other words, they wont know until they see you again. They have to see what your hormones are doing VS your follie size. If you get enough large looking follies they will probably let you trigger tomorrow or day after
*******Trigger Warning*********
But also, if I trigger Thursday, I miss my kid’s bday party... which is a huge deal. DS1 died just before his 3rd birthday. This is DS2’s 3rd birthday. And I really want to be part of this huge milestone. I know I just gotta do what’s best for my cycle but man that’s hard. I just gotta get through until tomorrow.
As for me, my doc has canceled my cycle. So I’m really emotional right now as well. Don’t know where to turn. Doc says he’ll prob change protocols for the next cycle, but I’m just numb right now