@becausescience I EFFING LOVE CANDY CORN. People think I'm crazy- glad I'm not alone.
@ShawnnaO my H and I have separate bank accounts....BUT we also have access to each other's accounts and do consider our money to be OURS. if one of us needs something we can count on the other to contribute. I find it easier to manage our own aunts for day to day spending and budgeting. So i guess we land somewhere in the middle?
My UO is when people on this board hide behind their screen names and vaguely call out others for their views and posts. This is directed to you @heatherdubrow. How dare you make an UO post just so you can rant and rave over another person's post regarding the gender of their child.
Thats my UO and I know I'll have all the all the TTGP crowd hating me for it because she is their friend and the sweetest person ever. **insert eye roll**. So sweet to backstab and twist the knife instead of offering support.
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012
Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
My UO is when people on this board hide behind their screen names and vaguely call out others for their views and posts. This is directed to you @heatherdubrow. How dare you make an UO post just so you can rant and rave over another person's post regarding the gender of their child.
Thats my UO and I know I'll have all the all the TTGP crowd hating me for it because she is their friend and the sweetest person ever. **insert eye roll**. So sweet to backstab and twist the knife instead of offering support.
*sex And QFP.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
You can QFP me all you want. I won't delete and hide. I stand behind my comment. Go ahead quote away - I like seeing my comment being reiterated many times. Gives more people the opportunity to read it. so thank you @becausescience .
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012
Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
You can QFP me all you want. I won't delete and hide. I stand behind my comment. Go ahead quote away - I like seeing my comment being reiterated many times. Gives more people the opportunity to read it. so thank you @becausescience .
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
The other day, I posted about gender disappointment as well because I am grieving the relationship I lost with my daughter. Everyone was supportive (towards me). Today someone posts about gender disappointment and it gets made light of in another thread. Y'all don't know what this woman could be going through. Did she say she won't love and nurture the child when it arrives? Noooope. Why are we, mothers or mothers to be invalidating people's genuine feelings? We don't need to agree but making a not-so-subtle post about it is just catty.
Yeah I don’t think it’s very kind to call someone out (directly or indirectly) in another thread. I get that this is UO but you can have an UO and still be supportive of another woman who is experiencing a perfectly normal emotion re: the sex of their child.
On that note, @becausescience I don’t understand why you felt the need to call out @hdaley on her use of “gender” when literally *everyone else* in this thread has done the same thing. I get it - I was a gender & sexuality focus psych major; the conflating of gender & sex drives me nuts - but again, singling out the person who has a differing opinion feels shitty to me.
@ksmwalters You're right. I'm a shitty person for trying to make sure people use the right word. My bad. I actually want to correct everybody, but am working an overload this semester and most people are active during the day, so I'm usually late to the conversations.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
@syssa-o I read your post and agreed with everyone offering support. What you’ve been through is horrific and your feelings are completely understandable. My comment was that when someone uses wording that (I personally) would reserve for a devastating diagnosis, to describe their healthy baby it seems out of touch with reality. To me it does. There are so many bad things that can happen, it seems like a crazy thing to be so devastated about. Thats my opinion. It’s unpopular and I accept that.
Ive offered a lot of support and made a lot of wonderful friends here. I shared my opinion and I stand by it.
Yeah I don’t think it’s very kind to call someone out (directly or indirectly) in another thread. I get that this is UO but you can have an UO and still be supportive of another woman who is experiencing a perfectly normal emotion re: the sex of their child.
On that note, @becausescience I don’t understand why you felt the need to call out @hdaley on her use of “gender” when literally *everyone else* in this thread has done the same thing. I get it - I was a gender & sexuality focus psych major; the conflating of gender & sex drives me nuts - but again, singling out the person who has a differing opinion feels shitty to me.
Hmmm... I must have misread this.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
@becausescience That was my informal way of saying that it feels unnecessarily direct, meaning why target one person when multiple people in the same thread have made the same mistake. I understand that you’re late to the game - I am away from a computer all day for work, so I rarely post on threads in a timely manner. It just read (to me) that you were picking her out because of the rest of the content of her post.
@heatherdubrow I get it, everyone has & is entitled to opinions.
I don't think we can rightfully judge & make comment on one's feelings without having walked a mile and all that. I typically try to be a decent and compassionate human being whether I can empathize with someone's situation or not. We all come from such diverse backgrounds that have led us to the point we are at now. We all emote differently which is amazing because how boring would it be if we all felt the same and processed everything similarly.
When someone calls something devastating, I try to understand that what may devastate me, is different from what may devastate them; HOWEVER, regardless of the trigger, that person is entitled to their feelings.
@syssa-o that’s a fair point. My UO wasn’t intended to cause such a backlash, we’ve had the discussion here before so it didn’t feel like it would be that surprising. I have friends here on TB and irl who would give their right arm to be pregnant with any baby. It is upsetting to them when ‘gender disappointment’ gets brought up. It’s not always as innocent as sharing feelings and having every feeling validated. I don’t think every feeling should be validated. Sometimes sharing those feelings can be incredibly hurtful.
@ksmwalters I understand. I cringe everytime I read "gender" when it should be "sex." I'm sorry my comments might have come off as harsh towards you, I know you did agree with my on that part. This thread has conflicting messages though. One person doesn't like vague posts and another doesn't like directly calling people out. So... I'm not sure what course of action is correct.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
@hdaley my use of the word ‘gender’ was in reference to the ‘gender disappointment’ phenomenon that gets discussed here. I do in fact know the difference between sex and gender.
The main point of my post is that what transpired was shitty and uncalled for. Whether it be "gender disappointment" or "sex disappointment." It doesn't change the nature of the action.
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012
Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
I’m actually shaking over this. My post was not intended to be hateful. I reacted to something I found pretty awful and posted about it. I was not trying to be an asshole or rile everyone up. I have my own feelings about gender disappointment that I can accept are not popular. I’m bowing out of this for tonight.
Can we agree that "gender disappointment" and acting like your child was diagnosed with a terrible disease because of his or her sex organs are two different things? Nobody is saying that "gender disappointment" isn't an acceptable way to feel.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Can we agree that "gender disappointment" and acting like your child was diagnosed with a terrible disease because of his or her sex organs are two different things? Nobody is saying that "gender disappointment" isn't an acceptable way to feel.
@becausescience no worries; my tone on messages boards can maybe be a little strong. Your post didn’t feel harsh towards me.
I guess my UO is unless someone is being harmful or cruel, there’s no reason to call them out vaguely or directly. Especially re: feelings and emotions they’re experiencing during this process. Maybe it’s because I’ve been through a *lot* of therapy or because I went to a really hippie-dippy massage school, but I feel like you can respect someone’s emotional state without agreeing with it. There have been plenty of times when I could have posted an UO that was snarky, but why? It doesn’t serve me and it hurts someone else. (Not trying to frame myself as a Zen master; you should hear my brother and I when watching “Say Yes to the Dress: Bridesmaids.”) I guess I’ve just never understood doing it in a public forum. (Again, unless they’re promoting something that is harmful/spreads false information/is hateful/etc.)
@becausescience I don't know your pregnancy/ child rearing history but *tw* I watched my daughter die on a table in front of me and with her, died my dreams for a healthy mother-daughter relationship that I did not have with my emotionally abusive narcissistic mother. If I say that I am worried I may experience G/D if one of my twins is not a girl, I will be damned if anyone invalidates those feelings. I used the word devastated. If anyone chooses to flame me for that they can kick rocks.
@ksmwalters Does reminding fellow bumpers about the different between sex and gender from time to time count as "hateful or cruel" or helping to prevent "false information." I'm curious, because I feel like I got reactions like I was being hateful, when that wasn't my intention.
You mentioned you were a "gender & sexuality focus psych major" (in quotes b/c I copied and pasted from your post, not because I don't think it is a real major). Would you be at all interested in a creating a PSA thread about the difference between the two? I feel like with your background you'd be able to explain is much better than many of us. I feel like many people just genuinely don't know there is a difference between gender and sex.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
I honestly think this is a clashing of the different cultures TB has created over the years. A few years ago any disappointment with the sex of the baby would have brought out many comments and dialogue, directly and indirectly. And, most of it wasn't supportive. The use of gender to describe sex was corrected quickly and people just learned the appropriate terminology. Change isn't always bad, but it does take getting use to sometimes.
@becausescience Oh no definitely not! My UO section at the bottom wasn’t directed towards you, it was more about the original GD topic and everyone’s feelings surrounding it. I think correcting people is the right thing to do; I just felt like you were calling out one person out of multiple with your initial post about it. I guess I just felt like if we correct one person let’s correct them all. I’m totally down to create a thread like that! It might not be until later this weekend when I have a minute to sit down and type it all out, but I agree that it would be helpful. (I also might try and dig up some links and books that people can check out if they want to know more.) I’m a massage therapist now so I’m not in the field, but I have a fair amount of knowledge from undergrad and just continued interest since then.
Can we agree that "gender disappointment" and acting like your child was diagnosed with a terrible disease because of his or her sex organs are two different things? Nobody is saying that "gender disappointment" isn't an acceptable way to feel.
I get what you're saying and I think people are communicating well on this point.
However, I just want to point out that essentially what was said was "a degree of this feeling is ok, but a further end of the spectrum isn't."
It's extremely difficult to share ones feelings to the full extent they are felt.
It's like saying "I accept people liking bagels. I judge people LOVING bagels." Bad example, but invalidation is invalidation and it's unsupportive. I'm not trying to make anyone right or wrong. It's not right or wrong, just not supportive.
I just want to add that everyone has a reason for their behavior, beliefs and feelings. Most of the time it is ingrained over a lifetime. Our reactions are most often dictated by life experience. Whether or not we like another person’s thoughts or feelings, if we agree or not, whether or not we understand and regardless if we have a different perspective doesn’t change anything and is not helpful. I am a big fan of talking to understand. She posted here, already feeling awful, likely seeking support and unfortunately was called out and invalidated. It doesn’t matter if it was direct or not, it happened. It would have been beneficial for her if we sought to understand. Maybe we could talk about how she feels, possibly find if there is reasoning for her to react the way she did? Maybe something has happened in her life that having a child of this sex terrifies her. We don’t know until we seek to understand. It’s so easy to see something we don’t like and talk negatively of it, especially on a board of women who likely don’t know each other in real like. I don’t believe @heatherdubrow had ill intent, but this could have gone a much healthier route. We are all genuinely doing the best we can with what life has given us. For a lot of women here, this board is the only bit of support they have. The only place they can vent and talk about their feelings. I would hate to see it divided.
As a person with a history of sometimes debilitating depression, I think of how it can be to feel terrible when your rational mind is telling you there is so much to feel wonderful about. It has, for me, compounded sadness with shame many times, and I feel for anyone in that unfortunate state. I also know how hard it is to push that shame aside and admit that you feel shitty when you should feel joyful, and sometimes doing so can actually help. I have had a few moments of being intimidated by the idea of having a boy, and I did feel real disappointment for a moment. I am thrilled now, and I can’t really imagine that fleeting feeling of wanting a girl progressing to something like devastation, but irrational feelings are irrational, and sometimes saying them aloud without being judged is the difference between shaking them off or not.
@syssa-o I am sorry for what you went through. Just to be clear, and I mean this with kindness, I'm 99.99% sure no one in this thread who was criticizing [extreme forms of] GD was talking about you or had your very atypical and heartbreaking experience in mind.
I usually stay out of this kind of thing, but if kindness and supportiveness is what we are after here, it should be considered that people who have gone through IF and loss are understandably offended by severe GD (barring some kind of unusual circumstance as was described above). I think people who have not gone through IF and/or loss may not appreciate how those comments sound to someone who took years, harmful drugs, and invasive procedures that sometimes included surgery and/or surgery on one's partner to become pregnant. *TW If someone lost one or multiple pregnancies the idea of being devastated about a healthy child is probably pretty disturbing to them in particular. *End TW If people who have dealt with IF or loss or have someone close to them in their life who has criticize comments that are very insensitive to that experience, or "lovetit" another person's comment to that effect, please understand that you may not totally feel where that person is coming from, but that they deserve your compassion, support, and validation too. I'm not saying people with mild or severe GD are bad people, I'm just saying, let's at least offer people with a history of IF or loss as much compassion and understanding as people with GD.
Re: UO 10/5
@ShawnnaO my H and I have separate bank accounts....BUT we also have access to each other's accounts and do consider our money to be OURS. if one of us needs something we can count on the other to contribute. I find it easier to manage our own aunts for day to day spending and budgeting. So i guess we land somewhere in the middle?
Thats my UO and I know I'll have all the all the TTGP crowd hating me for it because she is their friend and the sweetest person ever. **insert eye roll**. So sweet to backstab and twist the knife instead of offering support.
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012 Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
And QFP.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012 Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
^ my UO
On that note, @becausescience I don’t understand why you felt the need to call out @hdaley on her use of “gender” when literally *everyone else* in this thread has done the same thing. I get it - I was a gender & sexuality focus psych major; the conflating of gender & sex drives me nuts - but again, singling out the person who has a differing opinion feels shitty to me.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Thats my opinion. It’s unpopular and I accept that.
Ive offered a lot of support and made a lot of wonderful friends here. I shared my opinion and I stand by it.
vague posting works wonders
"UO - people using the term gender when the applicable term is sex"
that way you wouldn't have been targeting one person.
Just my opinion.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
I don't think we can rightfully judge & make comment on one's feelings without having walked a mile and all that. I typically try to be a decent and compassionate human being whether I can empathize with someone's situation or not. We all come from such diverse backgrounds that have led us to the point we are at now. We all emote differently which is amazing because how boring would it be if we all felt the same and processed everything similarly.
When someone calls something devastating, I try to understand that what may devastate me, is different from what may devastate them; HOWEVER, regardless of the trigger, that person is entitled to their feelings.
And I didn't see you Quote @heatherdubrow with her initial use of "gender." Only me.
Let's see if you'll quote me again. Now it has become a fun game. Come on do it! Lol
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012 Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
I have friends here on TB and irl who would give their right arm to be pregnant with any baby. It is upsetting to them when ‘gender disappointment’ gets brought up. It’s not always as innocent as sharing feelings and having every feeling validated. I don’t think every feeling should be validated. Sometimes sharing those feelings can be incredibly hurtful.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012 Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
EDD March 12, 2018
Baby #1: BFP on 10/12/2011, EDD 6/24/2012 Born: 6/16/2012 Boy!
Baby #2: BFP on 11/11/2016, EDD 7/25/2017 - MC 1/2/2017
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
I guess my UO is unless someone is being harmful or cruel, there’s no reason to call them out vaguely or directly. Especially re: feelings and emotions they’re experiencing during this process. Maybe it’s because I’ve been through a *lot* of therapy or because I went to a really hippie-dippy massage school, but I feel like you can respect someone’s emotional state without agreeing with it. There have been plenty of times when I could have posted an UO that was snarky, but why? It doesn’t serve me and it hurts someone else. (Not trying to frame myself as a Zen master; you should hear my brother and I when watching “Say Yes to the Dress: Bridesmaids.”) I guess I’ve just never understood doing it in a public forum. (Again, unless they’re promoting something that is harmful/spreads false information/is hateful/etc.)
You mentioned you were a "gender & sexuality focus psych major" (in quotes b/c I copied and pasted from your post, not because I don't think it is a real major). Would you be at all interested in a creating a PSA thread about the difference between the two? I feel like with your background you'd be able to explain is much better than many of us. I feel like many people just genuinely don't know there is a difference between gender and sex.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
However, I just want to point out that essentially what was said was "a degree of this feeling is ok, but a further end of the spectrum isn't."
It's extremely difficult to share ones feelings to the full extent they are felt.
It's like saying "I accept people liking bagels. I judge people LOVING bagels." Bad example, but invalidation is invalidation and it's unsupportive. I'm not trying to make anyone right or wrong. It's not right or wrong, just not supportive.
I have had a few moments of being intimidated by the idea of having a boy, and I did feel real disappointment for a moment. I am thrilled now, and I can’t really imagine that fleeting feeling of wanting a girl progressing to something like devastation, but irrational feelings are irrational, and sometimes saying them aloud without being judged is the difference between shaking them off or not.
I usually stay out of this kind of thing, but if kindness and supportiveness is what we are after here, it should be considered that people who have gone through IF and loss are understandably offended by severe GD (barring some kind of unusual circumstance as was described above). I think people who have not gone through IF and/or loss may not appreciate how those comments sound to someone who took years, harmful drugs, and invasive procedures that sometimes included surgery and/or surgery on one's partner to become pregnant. *TW If someone lost one or multiple pregnancies the idea of being devastated about a healthy child is probably pretty disturbing to them in particular. *End TW If people who have dealt with IF or loss or have someone close to them in their life who has criticize comments that are very insensitive to that experience, or "lovetit" another person's comment to that effect, please understand that you may not totally feel where that person is coming from, but that they deserve your compassion, support, and validation too. I'm not saying people with mild or severe GD are bad people, I'm just saying, let's at least offer people with a history of IF or loss as much compassion and understanding as people with GD.