IMPORTANT Re: Newbie guides

KristoKekerooni · July 2017

@fishsticks-n-custard - I can see how there might be a fine line, and I truly appreciate you erring on the side of caution. I don't see the above as complaining, but I could see that depending on wording, it could be taken as such. I think really you can be a little more relaxed and we could all probably agree to just comment if it seems AW or complaining or whatever... and then you'd have an opportunity to say, "oh no, I'm happy to have this problem, It just effs with my temps"

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@antoto that specific misunderstanding I was referring to in the comment I tagged you in would be NOT yours. What I meant was, I think a lot of the TFAS folks thought they were being told they would hurt people if they talked about their LOs ever (and I think that because that's how I took it as an outsider of both camps). Then a chain reaction happened. I think what you said is helpful clarification, but I'm not sure what you said mirrors what was said in WTO yesterday, though it sounds like everyone is on board with it now.

KariAnn323 · July 2017

110% what @msmeeseeks and @lulu1180 said. Some of the newer members are just so positive all the time and it becomes grating. Please don't take this as I think you guys need you to change. I don't want you to change. I was once like that and I wish I still was.

@icecubeinthedesert Thank you for sharing that article. It's perfect!

looeeze · July 2017

icecubeinthedesert said:

antoto said:

I feel like a conversation needs to be had.

I think some newbies and perhaps some regs are unclear about when talking about LOs are frowned upon and when it's fine.

While technically I can only speak for myself, I can say that from a stupid amount of time on here this is what it is and has been for years:

If something about your LO is affecting your TTC stuff (breast feeding, not getting enough sleep etc etc) then that is FINE. If something about your LO is having a huge impact on your day/week/whatever and you need some support from us (Your LO is in the hospital, your LO got diagnosed with something, etc) then that is FINE. The stuff that is genuinely unnecessary is stuff like "omgeee LO turned one yesterday and did a smashcake and squeeee" or that kind of thing - something that you don't need support for, isn't impacting TTC in anyway, then it can come off as bragging. This isn't a mommy group. This is a board for TTC. We talk about other stuff to get to know each other but hearing about your kid having a favorite barbie isn't helping me to get to know YOU, and it's simultaneously making me feel that I cannot relate to you. It's unproductive in this space.

So if you are needing support with something we are happy to do so. Don't be scared to say "Oh, I can't temp right now because I'm up every 2 hours with LO". I don't know a single person on this board that would be angry at that response. If you think otherwise then I would suggest that problem is in your own head and your own perception, not in anything we have done.

^^^^this 10,000%. That's all I was trying to say yesterday and several people took it to mean that I don't ever want to hear mention of kids, ever. I thought I was very careful to make that clear, and I'm sorry if that point didn't come across well enough.

Me too, times a bazillion.

KristoKekerooni · July 2017

@doxiemoxie212 - That's certainly not what I took away from it. If that were the case, why bring up all the other boards we "belong to" more? That doesn't make sense. And then to go a step further about not being okay at how we celebrate.... nope.
Doesn't matter now, they apologized, it's whatever. But regardless, the feelings and hurt were valid.

doxiemoxie212 · July 2017

@KristoKekerooni if you read what was written in WTO, it was literally a, "Do I belong here? Is there a better board for me? There are these other boards related to TTC, but they're all for trouble TTC or IF, so I don't think I fit there, am I not searching hard enough for the right board?" I don't think that got pulled through to the TFAS post. So, that's it. I'm just saying I think it was a misunderstanding. I'm glad it's resolved. Whatever.

[Deleted User] · July 2017

To clear up any possible confusion - if you are Trying To Get Pregnant then you go here.

ETA - oh and if you're TTC soon and want to learn and get ready you go here too.

elisek · July 2017

Someone asked about what people get from the WTO/TWW dailies, so here is my two cents on that...(including general and effusive love for the community because I'm hormonal today)

It got way too long, so spoiler it is!

I think I'm approaching that in-between stage. Not really a newbie, but def not outside the "typical". No kids, no losses. I lurk on the IF thread and I participate on GTKYs and the FFFC/WTF/etc's when I feel like I have something to say. But WTO/TWW (and CS/Q to a lesser extent) is where I feel like I've gotten to know people and build relationships the most. I know when I was a 1/1, I worried about being too over-eager and chipper when I got a glimpse of someone's journey through their sig or saw their cycle numbers. So I tried to be friendly and kind to them as well as I could. Not ignoring them, but also not jumping onto something they said if I felt like they didn't want to rehash the whole thing (Elise, you can google what a trigger is, you don't need to ask this person to explain their shot to you for the millionth time). And I didn't get offended if people didn't engage with me right away. I just stuck around, encouraging and commiserating where I could, trying not to hurt anyone.

I think I'm at the point in my activity here (which bad timing bc I've been totally awol for two weeks with vacation and work!) that I now *get* why some might avoid the dailies. Even only being on TB for 5 months, I frequently think as I'm writing a response to someone I've never heard of before, "will I ever hear from this person again?" But maybe they'll stick around like I did. I'm in a place in my journey where I have the emotional capital to invest in those threads and encourage people and all that, but even only this far in I can see how it would be grating or hurtful or taxing as you get further along TTC.

Basically, while I understand why they might be avoided and that is absolutely 100% okay, I do think they're a very important staple of the community as a whole. The waiting is one of the only things we all do have in common, even if that waiting is natural verses medicated. And it's the only place for someone like me who was a newbie in March to become a regular who actually knows people. I mean, even on vacation when I wasn't temping or posting and was out of the country with no data, I remembered that kiki75 and vflux33 were in potential testing zones and I should go check on the grad thread. I shed a few happy tears and told my husband how happy I was for them. I got to know them through the dailies.

I don't know if that's helpful, but I guess to me, TWW/WTO should be a place that anyone can go, regardless of where they are at in the journey. And because of that, I think it should be one of the most sensitive places on the boards. I would support an explicit change to the R/R to be TTC/health related if that helps make it welcoming to all.

purplg8r · July 2017

There's a lot going on here and I'm jumping in late so just commenting on dailies for now

I've been doing it wrong I guess. I use the R/R to just talk about my life in general, not just TTC. My cycles are long so I don't have something to say every day referring to TTC. But I feel like it's where I get to know people and the little things happening in their lives, both relating to TTC and not. I like knowing when people are going on vacation or if somethings going on with work.

JNCPro3130 · July 2017

Hey ladies! I'm going to pop in here really quick because I'm crazy cleaning right now (my grandparents are coming tomorrow to stay with us for a few days). Since my name was brought into this, I wanted to clear up a few things. I didn't read through everything so I apologize if I'm repeating anything.

@KristoKekerooni, I don't think I have interacted with you much on here. I'm hoping the people on this board who "know" me a little can verify that I'm not one to be rude or hurtful to others. Yesterday started quite a debate and I actually (on multiple threads) apologized if I was hurtful. I will apologize directly to you since you read something that you found offensive. I really didn't mean to hurt you. I'm sorry.

Also, to EVERYONE on this board (newbie, struggling, IFer, etc), I don't think anyone needs to leave this board. There certainly isn't a timeframe that says you can only participate for X months and then move along. You, of course, build friendships and support. That's what TB is here for. I said the following in the TFAS thread: *then I went to bed so I'm not sure what was said after *

"My only point was that IF has a completely different board (as it should). Losses has a completely different board(as it should). Trouble TTC has a board(as it should). It just feels, at times, like this board is turning into a second T-TTC board. I never intentionally want to hurt anyone but in the rave section of the dailies sometimes I want to say something about DS."

Did I mean get out of here if you're having trouble? Absolutely not! My point in bringing that up is because I don't know where I belong. There is an entire board for a lot of groups (because they need extra/more specific support), but I wasn't sure if there was a more general TTC board. In fact I asked in the WTO thread if there was somewhere else I should go so I don't offend anyone by mentioning my son. It's probably just me but at times I feel Guilty because I have a child or because I'm only 2 months in my journey. Maybe that's my own sensitivity.

After the above statement, I said something about how a good compromise would be increasing the TFAS threads. I think everyone would have a place if we do that.

Lastly, for the record, I said NOTHING about IFers getting more congratulations than others in the grad thread. I'm pretty positive I didn't mention the grad thread at all. I imagine there are a lot of reasons they get more responses (been on the board longer/know more people, deserve ALL the love for their journey, etc). I'm not sure what was said but please don't think I agree with any statements about who should or shouldn't get congratulations. I've honestly never really paid attention to the number of congratulations a person gets. *shrug*

Good gracious...This ended up being super long. I'm sorry again if I hurt feelings. I'll respectfully take a step back and join a different community if I've been too hurtful. Creepy internet hugs to all of you.

haylsbayls-2 · July 2017

I would argue that the dailies are the most useful threads on this board, especially for newbies. It's a place where you can talk about cervical mucus/position, random cramps, peeing on OPKs, symptom spotting, and all the random stuff that comes with TTC that others may not appreciate. It's also where the most questions and helpful information is shared. The R/R is place for ladies to focus on something other than what cycle day they are at for a brief moment and learn something about each other. Also, with the argument of this leaning towards a T-TTC board - you should be happy to have the IF ladies here as they've been through it all and can offer the most support and information for the ones just starting. Everyone belongs here but like anywhere else in your life, it's good to know when to be sensitive about certain topics. No one would kick you out of an RE's office, but we wouldn't expect you to walk into the waiting room and start talking about how fun it was to go on a walk with your 2 year old this morning.

Dilynne · July 2017

I don't have a lot to contribute but seeing as I'm a bit of a bitter old hag, I'll throw it in.

Ive been at this for 17 long months. I mostly stick to the dailies for a number of reasons:

1) I feel safe there. You guys are amazing. I get so much support. It make my heart happy. I literally have done nothing to deserve
you guys. I tell you about my struggles with TTC, mental health, my job, my frustrating H... you guys are practically my best friends and I don't know what I'd do without you.

2) I don't know where I belong. I'm not diagnosed IF but I feel like I should be. I'm not diagnosed with a Mental Health issue, but I probably should be. Where do I belong if not here?

3) I love hearing about your days! Your lives! That stupid thing your partner did that made you want to smack a bitch. I love that.

I dont know know if I really even get a say in anything... but I've been around for the last 2 or 3 Newbie Guide changes. Has it really helped? I couldn't say.

Eta: spelling is hard.

KristoKekerooni · July 2017

@JNCPro3130 - I'm not about to assume you are a horrible person based on one post, just like I don't assume that about the others that posted thing I really hated to see. We are all have more than one dimensional. I did see what you posted in WTO and how you could have meant it honestly, but to me, it seemed very much like "I want to tell these people to go to a different thread, but I don't want to seem like a Biotch, so *cough* *cough* there are other threads out there for you, go away"
That's probably reading a lot into it, but that paired with the grad post comments (I know that wasn't you, I kinda lumped all my frustrations into one big rant) really got me upset, because like I've been saying all along, my IF girls here deserve everything and more. This IF game is hard as hell without feeling like we aren't welcome or that we are marginalizing anyone.
I just have an overwhelming urge to protect these women. I know not everyone on the board thinks the same as I do, but when you've been through hell and you haven't found your way back yet, I think it warrants sensitivity and understanding.

wisewitch222 · July 2017

I agree that the dailies are the most useful parts of this board as well! I'm not a big forum-er, I'm mobile a lot, and my job and family often keep from keeping track of multiple threads, especially long threads full of GIFS and real-time conversations. I can keep track of - and be an active participant in - a daily each day, however.

I also like that the dailies are specifically about TTC, and even more specifically about the waiting aspect of it, which, as an above poster said, is something we all have in common.

I also agree that the dailies are for everyone, so those of us with privilege (already-have-kids privilege, early-stage TTC privilege, not suffered a loss privilege, etc.) need to check our privilege in the dailies so that they're comfortable for everyone. This is just a reiteration of the several previous comments on this thread that amounted to what another poster (sorry no tags - mobile) termed: "Don't be an asshole." I try not to be one, but if I am, please call me out.

tamalahoops · July 2017

I think the ladies have done a wonderful job clarifying kids and TWs.

I just wanted to make it abundantly clear that we have several ladies that are TFAS in the IF thread and I never once got the vibe that they weren't welcome or that they were less valued because they already had kids. If you are struggling with infertility or starting the testing process please know that you are more than welcome to join us regardless of how many kids you currently have.

petethecat · July 2017

wisewitch222 said:

*snip*
I also agree that the dailies are for everyone, so those of us with privilege (already-have-kids privilege, early-stage TTC privilege, not suffered a loss privilege, etc.) need to check our privilege in the dailies so that they're comfortable for everyone. This is just a reiteration of the several previous comments on this thread that amounted to what another poster (sorry no tags - mobile) termed: "Don't be an asshole."

There's so much here to respond to and I have a bitchin migraine so I'm just going to say that this is perfectly stated.

Quickly, a couple other things...

I also agree with with the current TW guidelines as stated in The Ultimate Guide to TTGP and don't think that they need to be amended to include more required or encouraged TWs.

I agree with everything @lulu1180 said about what constitutes the appropriate mention of kids on the dailies.

I love everything @elisek said.

Again, I just really can't say enough how important that I think it is to know your audience.

Also, empathy is cool, no matter where you are in your TTC journey.

mispanda · July 2017

tamalahoops said:

I just wanted to make it abundantly clear that we have several ladies that are TFAS in the IF thread and I never once got the vibe that they weren't welcome or that they were less valued because they already had kids. If you are struggling with infertility or starting the testing process please know that you are more than welcome to join us regardless of how many kids you currently have.

Most of the time I don't participate in conversations like this because wording what I want to say without sounding like a total bitch is hard. So I stay silent.
But THIS. I am TFAS and now mostly stay in the IF thread and they have been nothing but welcoming to me. I stay away from the dailies now because it was just personally too hard for me to see the newbies go faster than they come. Nothing against them for that, I just couldn't handle it. With that being said, I think the dailies play an important part of getting to know everyone.

JNCPro3130 · July 2017

@KristoKekerooni, I'm truly sorry anyone has to go through IF. It's unfair. It's emotional and you need and deserve all the support.

I went back and read the TFAS thread. I unintentionally hurt a lot of feelings. I'm really sorry. Honestly, I'm totally not confrontational. I always want people to feel included and welcomed. I'm a positive and encouraging person. Unfortunately this is not coming across online! Since I've offended so many, I will join a different community. I wish all of you the best of luck. I truly hope you all get your babies! I'm rooting hard for you!!

mangoandguava · July 2017

I'm gonna go ahead and preface this with the fact that I am a sporadic poster and Certified Newbie(TM). Hell, I'm not even actively TTC yet. I am here for one purpose: to rob you. You are all wealthy in TTC information and tips and perspectives, and I am dirt poor and want your wealth, and I've been slowly stealing bits of it for the last 18 months. Which, by anyone's measure, means I don't belong here right now.

All of you do. IFers, TFASers, 1/1ers, ALers. You're all doing something that I am not yet: Trying To Get Pregnant. I think, in a way, there is a lot of "us-versus-them" here, and not a lot of "we are all in this game together". I think that has something to do with the way the house is built, if you will. (My analogy got long, so it went into a spoiler.)

We've got a nice front lawn: the Newbie Guide. It's a little dated, maybe, but it serves the purpose: it shows the new posters what the rest of the house is gonna be like for the most part.
We've got the front porch: the Newbie Intro thread. Strangers come and knock and hope to be less strange. Sometimes it's a ramshackle little shack of a thing, and sometimes it's a huge Southern Plantation wraparound, but it's there.
We have lots and lots of bedrooms: TFAS, IF, TTCAL, Benched/TTA. People go into their bedrooms and feel safe. We can all go into those bedrooms, of course, but we don't participate without knocking first. Some of the bedrooms are cozier than others, but it's really only up to those in the bedrooms to decorate (or redecorate) them to fit their needs. TFAS is talking about going to a weekly rather than a monthly, from what I saw, and I think that soon it will be just as cozy as any of the other bedrooms.
We've got the formal living room: the Dailies. It has nice curtains and fancy couches and that beautiful porcelain angel Great Grandmother Marjorie made for your first anniversary. But you can't go in there and, say, play video games. You go in there for Grown Up Talk, and Fancy Tea, and Pretending to Be an Adult. Other people go in and listen to your Grown Up Talk, and offer more Grown Up Talk in return, and we are all Civilized People in there.
All of these places are important for a house as big as ours is. Everyone needs a place to feel safe, and we need somewhere to be Grown Up Civilized People. But... there's not really a den. There's a few places, like FFFC, where maybe there's a TV, but really those are just bedrooms with open doors. There isn't a regular cozy shared space with ratty old couches and an XBOX for us to just hang out and eat potato chips and get to know each other. I mean, yes, we've got the Weekly Randoms, but even there it's not like we can jump off the couch wearing plastic Walmart bags like they're parachutes and singing "I Believe I Can Fly" until we all break our ankles. It's kind of like we're still sitting in the formal living room, but maybe we've put away the porcelain angel. I think we need a place where we can jump off the couch.
I know other posters have mentioned doing more GTKY threads. I think that's great! If we do more of those, it'll give us a den where we can all hang out and learn about each other! I even saw a few on the main board today, and I'm about to go into the WCW one and sing Scarlett Johansson's dubious praises!

As for the TW/kids debate, I feel like it sucks all around. If you're TFAS, it sucks, because I can definitely see how it would feel like your child is a "dirty little secret" when anytime you want to talk about them, it's always got to be prefaced with a trigger warning, and your heart hurts because you feel like you can't complain about anything they do (and let's be real - there are days you want to complain) without hurting someone else. If you're dealing with IF, it sucks, because I can definitely see how it would be painful to see one-offs day after day and would want them to have trigger warnings so you can judge whether you can handle it today, and how someone complaining about their kid could definitely cause your heart to hurt. I don't think I have a solution, but a bandaid might be to - as other posters have said before me - remove or limit the Daily R/R sections to things regarding or affecting TTC (including a TW request for "my kid decided to play vet and stuck my BBT in the dog's butt and they're both totally fine but now I have to wait right during FW to get the new one delivered"), and maybe have a pair of R/R threads, one "safe" and one with a general "children" TW like the TTCAL TW has? That way, no one has to specifically say, "Hey, TW, my kid...", no one having a rough TTC day has to unknowingly happen on an un-warned "Hey, my kid...", and we can all still celebrate awesome stuff / gripe about shitty stuff that is not even a little bit related to TTC?

(Please note: I have been working on this for a couple hours now, and am not caught up. Also, please feel free to flame me, now or at any point down the road, if something I say is insensitive, hurtful, or otherwise not good for you.)

kiwi2628 · July 2017

@wisewitch222 I don't know you, but I like you

lurvleybunchococonuts · July 2017

JNCPro3130 said:

*snipped*
Since I've offended so many, I will join a different community. I wish all of you the best of luck. I truly hope you all get your babies! I'm rooting hard for you!!

@JNCPro3130 hey now, don't leave, stuff happens, I feel like we all had a good talk today and got a lot out in the open. Feelings get hurt, we apologize, learn from our mistakes, and move on. But not move on like someone has to leave.

ETA wording

KristoKekerooni · July 2017

@JNCPro3130 - That is 100% absolutely not necessary. Don't leave. We respect people who admit they made a mistake/came off wrong/all the above. Please stick around. You have friends, here.

dreamscapes_ · July 2017

*lurker*

This is my first post over here (I'm active on BOTB, we still have a couple months before we're actively TTC), but yes, @JNCPro3130, you'd better not leave The Bump, you're one of my favorite people here

LadyMillil · July 2017

~recent TTGP IF grad who spent 2 years here lurking~

Yes, there are T-TTC and IF boards but one is pretty dead and the other is well-established to be focused on treatment cycles. Neither board really has a spot for people that are undergoing IF testing or has a supportive community feel. Several IF people from TTGP have migrated to these boards, found them lacking, failed at trying to establish a similar environment to TTGP and have come back here to make the IF thread, which is an incredibly supportive and knowledgeable thread (and one that no one actually wants to be a part of).

pebbledam · July 2017

@poandhendrix - I like your metaphor a lot and I'd totes jump off a couch with you and break my ankle. Let's do this!

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