IMPORTANT Re: Newbie guides

icecubeinthedesert

Hi all,
I know that changes to the newbie guides have come up several times in the past, and we get new iterations as time goes on, but I thing it would be great to have a discussion about what people think with the current community. I'm starting this thread to get an open dialogue going where people can voice thoughts on the current guides, propose changes, modify existing wording, etc.

Here are some thoughts I have to get the discussion started:
1) Wording regarding posting a new intro thread. We have discussed this a lot recently given the increase in drive-bys. It does say to post a new intro thread in one of the new member guides, which can be confusing to new members.
2) How to communicate consolidation of new member guides to the bump admins. Has anyone tried this in the past and can give some insight on the best way to approach this? I'm happy to help work on this, but I think it is wise to have the best possible plan to finally consolidate these threads.
3) Updating of board etiquette guides and TW situations. This came up in the WTO thread today (7/11) specifically regarding gratuitous mention of LOs (although appropriate in certain situations) and the use of TWs in the context of pregnancies and children. We had a great dialogue there, but wanted to open this up to the entire community.

I look forward to what you all think and value all your opinions to maintain this community as a great place for all TTGP!

izza2

When we redid the newbie guide last year I harassed the BGs to get rid of the old rules threads they had up that have incorrect info, or at least to update them. I was ignored, of course. I messaged them almost daily for a few weeks for that and for getting the newbie guide pinned and it fell on deaf ears.
I emailed them at one point as well, with no response. *shrug* Its worth a try again, but I wouldn't hold your breath on them caring enough to edit their threads. *sigh*


I'm also team not needing TWs for mentioning LOs or pregnancy in general. Just being mindful of what you're saying and where. It's one thing to complain about breastfeeding or LO's sleep schedules in TFAS and different to complain about it in TWW or something.
It's difficult to require TWs for every subject that's not exclusively fertility signs, etc. Then it basically becomes a board of TWs. 


If someone redoes the guide, I'd suggest maybe using spoilers for the different topics? It's help let people read up in sections easier and skip things that don't apply to them at the moment. I tried to break it up more, but it's still a wall of text . 

doxiemoxie212

My main thing with the TW rules is that I just can't imagine anyone is actually skipping over sections of text just because it has TW in front of it, in which case we're:

1) treating TWs as, essentially, a term of respect instead of an actual, functional element (i.e., you get a pass talking about this because you've acknowledged what you're about to say might hurt someone) 
2) creating a highly nuanced situation of TWs for very mundane things (i.e., children), making it increasingly difficult to sort through for things that one encounters less frequently and thus wouldn't have the expectation of avoiding (i.e., rape, MC, etc.) 

I just think it makes way more sense to either have a "we don't talk about this" rule or a "I've agreed this topic might appear here" understanding. 

I'm pro it being fine to mention kids (and I don't have any, have been on this board over a year, have TW had a MC) for whatever it's worth. But I'm also not very sensitive, so I don't necessarily think my voice should count for a full vote. Shrug. 

icecubeinthedesert

@izza2, thanks for recapping your experience. I thought you might have tried pretty hard back then to get them taken down, but didn't know the whole story.

Re: TWs:

I agree that LOs don't need TWs, but should not be casually mentioned. But it certainly has been dropped extremely casusally recently in the daily threads, and it is entirely hurtful to me to read through all of those threads every day. It does wear on me to hear general complaints that every parent has about having small children. Specific problems that could get great advice here? Totally welcome. Relevant experience from previous pregnancy or having a child? Also OK. But everyone should think about their audience in each thread. Frankly, to me, hearing about everyone's children all day long IRL and on here is harder for me than talking about miscarriages. It doesn't bother me at all to talk about mine as long as my audience is respectful about it. So to me, I personally would rather see TWs for LOs than for MCs, but I understand that is a bit of my own perspective, perhaps unreasonable, and I can't speak for everyone. But just as others feel like they don't belong here because they can't talk about their children ad lib, I feel like I can't participate in the threads intended for everyone without getting my heart hurt. We just need to make accommodations for each other, and also have understanding when we might need to restrain ourselves (myself included).

Another idea I had: including a flow chart to direct people to relevant sections for their situation. For example, starting with "new to TTC", "IF diagnosis", "TTCAL", "TFAS", etc. and giving recommendations that might be specific to each group within each section. Frankly I love the thread @izza2 made, and I think this would help navigate that thread in a way that we could add even more good stuff there without it getting absurdly long.

looeeze

izza2 said:

I'm also team not needing TWs for mentioning LOs or pregnancy in general. Just being mindful of what you're saying and where. It's one thing to complain about breastfeeding or LO's sleep schedules in TFAS and different to complain about it in TWW or something.
It's difficult to require TWs for every subject that's not exclusively fertility signs, etc. Then it basically becomes a board of TWs. 

Yes. This is basically what I've been seeing a lot of in the dailies that I (admittedly clumsily) tried to address today. 

fishsticks-n-custard

@izza2 and @looeeze Jesus. H. Roosevelt. Christ. Did I just get called out, not once, but twice on a recent post in TFAS? I posted there to avoid hurting any of the general population. And this just after I realized this is CD1. Thanks everyone. Much appreciated. I'm out.

looeeze

@fishsticks-n-custard what? I don't know what you posted in TFAS. Honestly i didnt realize you were TFAS until this very moment so I'm not sure at all what you mean. 

lulu1180

@fishsticks-n-custard What PPs were trying to say is that the way you handled it was the right way....posting about it in TFAS.  Constant whining/complaining about LOs in WTO or TWW can grate on those that are trying for their fist as their struggling.

icecubeinthedesert

@doxiemoxie212, I agree that TWs are in a way kind of stupid. To me it also means "I recognize this could be a touchy subject that might hurt someone, but I'm not intending to, so please don't flame me." I get tired of typing them up all the time when I feel they aren't particularly needed.

@looeeze, that was my message I was trying to say as well, but I don't think there is any way to phrase a constructive criticism or tell someone you hurt them on an internet forum without someone taking it poorly. I know when I got flamed back in the day (I was hanging out in the TWW as someone had recommended to me during my cycle on the bench after my first loss, but someone else didn't think it was OK for me to post there even given infrequent mention of my loss, and always with the proper TWs), I took it very poorly, but tried to be civil and not hold a grudge.

@fishsticks-n-custard, Whoa. No one who was talking about the mention of children in the dailies today intended to say anyone was doing something purposefully wrong. And I didn't see anyone on there or TFAS call you out on what you posted specifically. In fact, I appreciated that you thought about how others might feel, despite your example being a case where I think it is actually worth mentioning. No one specifically was called out, just examples were given of the sorts of things that might be better suited to a different audience like having to get up early in the morning without any context to it relevant to TTC dailies. It's just been a general trend that I wanted to address and didn't want to hurt anyone specifically.

Also, FWIW, I'm not overly sensitive either. Far from it. Each time I open up to someone about my losses, they are in shock because they could not see that I was in pain and mention how strong I must be to get through what I have. I'm the type that brushes off clearly malicious or insensitive comments in conversations both IRL and on here and give people too much benefit of the doubt. But I do think it's important to educate people that might not otherwise be aware that those comments can get to people after a while, particularly in a community like this. 

looeeze

@icecubeinthedesert I feel the exact same way. Thanks for wording it much, much better. 

As for the other parts, I think updating the wording regarding posting a new intro thread is tops and @izza2's idea of putting stuff in spoilers is smart. 

SkilledSailor

@izza2 Theoretically, once we overall agree on the new terms, could someone make a new Newbie Read This First Right Now thread (maybe not that exact title, I'm on wine glass 3) and have people keep bumping it up until the BGs pin it? 

JNCPro3130

For the newbie posts, I really like the idea of one thread. The board is pretty active (dailies, grad posts, etc) that I think a newbie post is more organized. We'll see if the Bump gods will be receptive to an update.

As for the TW for children, I'm really sorry if I caused trouble today in the WTO thread. I don't think anyone is trying to be hurtful at all. On the "side"  of having children(I don't want to be on a side but just explaining things), anyone mentioning trouble with LOs sleeping through the night or BFing might bring it up in the dailies (especially WTO) because it impacts temperatures/sleeping patterns/ovulation that impacts TTC. I'm not in those situations, so if I'm speaking incorrectly, someone jump in. I feel like that's a legitimate question/point to bring up in the dailies. I don't think anyone TFAS is complaining about their child at all!  I could see how it might be difficult to read the "complaining" post if you're struggling and think "Man, I'd LOVE to have that problem" but on the flip side, it's a TTC struggle also. KWIM?

Here's a thought that's being tossed around the TFAS thread.. What if we had a weekly TFAS thread? While no one is wanting an "us vs them" situation, it might be allow for a safe space for everyone. In the TFAS thread children TW wouldn't be necessary. In the dailies, children could be mentioned with a TW really when applicable directly to TTC. What do you guys think?

mileswithmyles

I know I am newer to this board, but just from my confusion earlier today and questions about potential updates, here are my two cents:

I agree with what @doxiemoxie212doxiemoxie212 said:

My main thing with the TW rules is that I just can't imagine anyone is actually skipping over sections of text just because it has TW in front of it, in which case we're:

1) treating TWs as, essentially, a term of respect instead of an actual, functional element (i.e., you get a pass talking about this because you've acknowledged what you're about to say might hurt someone) 
2) creating a highly nuanced situation of TWs for very mundane things (i.e., children), making it increasingly difficult to sort through for things that one encounters less frequently and thus wouldn't have the expectation of avoiding (i.e., rape, MC, etc.) 

I just think it makes way more sense to either have a "we don't talk about this" rule or a "I've agreed this topic might appear here" understanding. 

TW:
I know I would personally feel as though I were holding back part of who I am if I couldn't mention my son except in the TFAS thread.  While he is not the only thing in my life that defines me, he is a big part of my life and my day and censoring those things feels unnatural to me.  I know that the circumstances are not the same, but using the logic of asking members on this board to not mention existing children except in the TFAS thread because they are a trigger warning could also be akin to asking those struggling with TTCAL or IF to only discuss those topics in those specific threads because they could also be a trigger warning.  That being said, I don't want members with those experiences to feel as though they can't discuss those parts of their lives in the WTO or TWW threads either!

One idea may be to remove the Rants/Raves section in the WTO or TWW threads or to have the R/R only relate to those topics.  It seems like from other comments on this thread that the R/R section is where the items that could be a trigger for someone would appear.  Or if someone has a Rant/Rave, have it relate to being in the TWW or WTO.  

Right now, the TFAS thread is monthly. As someone in that category, it would be nicer to have it more frequently, either daily or weekly, if the group agrees that they would rather not have LOs mentioned in the WTO or TWW threads.

My intention was not to trigger anyone earlier today and the reason I asked the question about editing the newbie guide is because the current "rule" about mentioning LOs was that they didn't require a trigger warning.  If the idea is that new members are reviewing that guide and lurking to learn the culture of the board, it would be helpful for them to have the current expectations.  I hate knowing that I unintentionally hurt the feelings of @looeeze and @icecubeinthedesert and any other ladies.  I am such a rule follower at heart and for me, if it had been in the Newbie guide that mention of LOs or complaining about poor sleep of a LO is frowned upon, I never would have done it.  

I know how important the boards are for everyone.  I was active on my BMB with DS and I am in contact with many of the ladies from that group to this day and have met up with many of them in person.  They are a big part of my life and it all came from here.  
 

looeeze

It's past my bedtime so I'll tap out for the night but just want to say that I really appreciate the thoughtfulness on this thread and others today, and the willingness in general to have this convo. I felt really nervous saying anything at all because I didn't want to hurt anyone. 
 But I do think it's important to work through these issues as long as we're all here together and I'm just so happy that we can have a thoughtful, grown-up conversation where we actually do want to work with and build a safe culture for other people (I work in politics and this is basically the opposite of that right now). My admiration for so many of you, and this community in general, has grown so much today. 

icecubeinthedesert

@JNCPro3130, I don't think you caused any trouble, and I hope it didn't feel like an attack. I think we had a great, honest discussion about how to communicate with one another. I understand the importance and time and involvement children have in a mother's life. And I know it's involved in TTC as well. There are just several situations over a long period of time where it's mentioned with no relevance to TTC, and I think it's a great idea to have more weekly TFAS check-ins to enable people to interact and talk about their LOs. I guess it was my understanding that they were weekly check-ins instead of monthly, but that's my mistake since I've not really paid attention to those threads for apparent reasons. I hope we don't exclude ANYONE from posting in the daily threads, but that we all keep our sensitive subjects to the weekly check-ins so as to keep this a safe place.

@mileswithmyles, I understand what you are saying about extreme censoring. I certainly have some TTCAL things I would only discuss in a TTCAL thread where it would be received by people expecting to see that topic that I don't talk about on the daily threads. But if there is a situation where my MCs are relevant to the daily discussion, I try to find a respectful way to mention it with reasonable warning so someone reading can prepare themselves for a painful topic. I think this can be done very much the same for mentioning children. 

izza2

I have to go in for work, but I just wanted to quickly say that my post wasn't intended toward anyone in particular, or any specific situation. If it was I would've tagged you. I used an example that came to mind. I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular.

lulu1180

Here are my $.02 on this subject FWIW

Re: Newbie guides - When I joined the board nearly a year ago, there were a total of 3 newbie guides floating around.  One was the BGs guide, one was the original TTGP newbie guide that was still pinned at the top of the board and the last was the now current guide that was new and being bumped to get it pinned.  I read every single pinned post as well as the newest newbie guide that was still floating around and had yet to be pinned.  And I lurked for an appropriate amount of time.  And I realized that the correct way to intro was on the weekly thread.  It should be common sense to do so if a newbie 1. lurks; and 2. follows the guidelines given on the most recent newbie/welcome guide at the top.  And no amount of changing the newbie guides will change the amount of drive-bys we get.  We have always gotten them and we will continue to get them.  The kind of people that post a drive-by will not read the pinned posts because they don't think they apply to them or they simply "don't have the time."

Re: Mentioning LOs - I don't think people should be told that they can only mention LOs in certain threads.  It is exclusionary and you will get people that will no longer want to participate.  They will go to another forum because people won't complain about them mentioning LOs there.  If someone is using the R/R to constantly complain about their kids in a way that is hurtful to you, then you need to call them out on it!  Casually mentioning a child ("slept like crap last night because DD/DS was up several times", "OMG DD/DS is going to be 2 tomorrow, I can't believe how the time flies", "took the day off work to spend the day with DD/DS, so excited") should not be discouraged!  And if you're having a rough TTC day and it bothers you, step back for a minute and think about whether it would bother you if you weren't having that day.  Or PM one of your friends that you trust and ask if they felt the same way as you.  And if they did, find a respectful way to tell the person!

Re: TWs - Yes, this is mostly a thing done out of respect.  Unfortunately, too many members of this board have suffered losses to some degree.  And you don't know if people will skip over a portion if a TW is given so I don't think we should forgo them completely; we don't know what will trigger someone so I would rather be overly respectful to them than not respectful enough.  I do not think that they need to be given for a simple mention of children or pregnancy (ie "I'm hanging out with my BFF, who's KU.".  However, if you're mentioning someone you know getting a BFP then yes, I think a TW is appropriate (ie "My BFF just started TTC 2 months ago and just got her BFP, I'm so happy for her but sad for myself").  It is also appropriate in situations where other sensitive matters are mentioned such as rape/sexual abuse, death of a loved one, cancer, etc.  If you think the situation may be especially triggering to someone else, the best way to generally handle it is to give the TW, say what it's for and then put the story in a spoiler box.  That makes it a whole lot easier to skip over it if people want to, especially because you don't know what everyone else on the board has been through.

Stepping down off my soapbox now.

wisewitch222

Re: TFAS *TW*
I agree with the idea of a weekly TFAS thread, simply because I find the monthly one to be overwhelming.  I'm completely fine with sparing, TW'd mentions of my DS only when relevant to the topic at hand in the dailies, and I haven't posted in the June or July TFAS check ins at all.  But if those were weekly, I might find it easier to jump into that specific conversation about TTC with kid(s) (and thereby leave DS out of daily threads entirely.)

holly321

Maybe I wrong, but I feel like TW-ing miscarriage only adds to the culture where we feel like we have to keep miscarriage a hidden dark secret.    TW my loss was far enough along it was no secret, since I was obviously pregnant, but I felt like anytime I mentioned my child it offended and bothered other people and made them uncomfortable.  The TW talking about it here gives me the same feeling.

lurvleybunchococonuts

Re: TW for mention of children, this might be splitting hairs, but I'm curious, how should we handle any mentioning of *other* children: nieces, nephews, children of friends, step-kids, god-children, students, random child at the grocery store that made you laugh, etc?  I can see both sides of it, of course we don't want to unintentionally hurt someone who is having a hard day TTC, but I can also see where it can be frustrating having to be on your tip-toes not to mention anything child related.  There's so many unique situations, it's really hard to pinpoint exactly how to handle this so everyone feels included while not unintentionally hurting anyone. 

Re: TFAS weekly thread, I'm all for this! TW in spoiler

in the past I haven't participated in TFAS because I don't have any LOs of my own, I have a 6 year old SD, so I didn't think I *fit* there.  However, I will participate there in the future after lurking a bit yesterday and following this discussion  

lulu1180

lurvleybunchococonuts said:

Re: TW for mention of children, this might be splitting hairs, but I'm curious, how should we handle any mentioning of *other* children: nieces, nephews, children of friends, step-kids, god-children, students, random child at the grocery store that made you laugh, etc?  I can see both sides of it, of course we don't want to unintentionally hurt someone who is having a hard day TTC, but I can also see where it can be frustrating having to be on your tip-toes not to mention anything child related.  There's so many unique situations, it's really hard to pinpoint exactly how to handle this so everyone feels included while not unintentionally hurting anyone. 

Re: TFAS weekly thread, I'm all for this! TW in spoiler

in the past I haven't participated in TFAS because I don't have any LOs of my own, I have a 6 year old SD, so I didn't think I *fit* there.  However, I will participate there in the future after lurking a bit yesterday and following this discussion  

@lurvleybunchococonuts IMO I don't think the above bolded needs a TW

doxiemoxie212

@holly321 I do not disagree... I understand the merits behind triggering topics, but I also worry that it's another (perhaps partially internal?) version of "don't talk/think about that; it's taboo."

And (more on the topic of LOs again) I'm not saying that we're not all entitled to our feelings or that certain feelings are "wrong" - truly, I'm not - but at some point are we enabling each other instead of encouraging each other to be accepting of things we are going to encounter as part of everyday life? Part of me does believe we should spend a little bit more time saying to each other, "I hear you, I see you, that sucked so much, and I want to help you work through these feelings and come out the other side." 

Phrased another way, I think it's completely plausible for someone to find being single or not having the career they dreamed of or the death of a pet to be entirely, all consumingly devastating (again, truly, I do not think these things are trivial). But if we couldn't mention spouses, dream jobs or dogs? Cmon. 

pebbledam

I would like to say that I wouldn't mind getting rid of the rant/rave section on the dailies. I think that stuff goes well in the weekly randoms because I like it when all of TTGP can come together and talk about things. And I mean, Monday Bitchfests are all rants, so it feels like we have some redundancy built in. 

Also, I didn't know the TFAS thread was for people with step-kids and I have lurked there a time or two. That would be good info to add to a newbie guide. 

zamoraspin

It sounds like a more regular (daily or weekly) TFAS thread is a good idea regardless of any other changes. [edit because words are hard on mobile]

I always think of that episode of South Park - where Stan realizes he can't really understand where Token is coming from when it comes to racism because he has never experienced it himself - "Token, I get it now - I don't get it." 

I never thought a baby, a pregnant woman, or a picture of a u/s would upset me, but IRL those things are really hard for me right now. Stuff I read on TB doesn't (often) tend to trigger me personally.

But I also get it, I don't get it. I get that it's so painful to struggle with IF, to try for months or years ttgp, to be struggling tfas, to have a second tri loss, or repeated losses. I don't really understand the depths of that pain - I don't know all the ways it hurts. All I can do is try to understand people better, even if never perfectly. And if I can do that I do a service to people in IRL - I know I'd rather learn on here things that will hurt the feelings of a friend struggling with IF or RPL than hurt the friend by being insensitive. 

I don't know the right answer to a lot of the questions here but I'm glad we are talking about them. 

nanilani04

To keep things short and sweet, I'll say that @doxiemoxie212 and @mileswithmyles posts do a good job of summing up my thoughts.  On the subject of TW LOs, I will say that I don't like putting children on the same level as other triggering events such as rape or abuse.  @lurvelybunchococonuts Also brings up a good question about where one draws the line.  Does it only include your biological children?  What about adopted children or step-children?  Other people's children?  It's a hairy line.  I'm fine with minimizing mentions of children outside of TFAS (R/R and GTKY are probably the biggest culprits for this, having a more frequent TFAS thread may help), but I don't think they should necessarily be considered triggers.  

doxiemoxie212

Okay, seriously, though - I don't have any kids of any kind, so I can't participate in TFAS, and I want to get to know all of you, and all parts of you - I like learning about your kids! So like, can we have a kid-friendly WTO/TWW thread? Like, this is where it gets ridiculous. 

pebbledam

@doxiemoxie212 - What is stopping you from lurking and commenting on things in the TFAS thread? Is that too much to ask so we can have more people be comfortable in the dailies? 

ETA Most days, I like hearing about all aspects of everyone's lives here, but sometimes on hard TTC days overly casual mentions of children are hurtful.

doxiemoxie212

@pebbledam because that feels weird AF? It's specifically a thread for people with kids to talk about their kids? Sure, I can do that, and everyone else who is in the same boat as me can do that too, and then TFAS becomes just a thread of kid-friendly TWW/WTO. Which, cool. 

pebbledam

@doxiemoxie212 - I guess I see it like this: I lurk the IF and TTCAL boards to get to know my fellow TTGPers better, but I have NEVER commented there. But when they come to the dailies, I kinda know what's going on with them and I'm better at supporting them. If you lurk the TFAS thread, then you are still learning about them. And if you have a specific comment or question, then I doubt anyone will yell at you to get out of the TFAS thread. Just like if I wanted to ask something or provide extra support to someone on the IF thread, they wouldn't shun me...(right, IF ladies?) At least, that's how I would envision it working. 

mileswithmyles

@pebbledam I think part of what some posters are saying is that by making one group more comfortable in the dailies, another group is going to feel alienated. 

Jyoung327

If some people are saying that mention of any other kids except your own is okay and not requiring a  TW then I'm not sure I understand the purpose of said TW...it seems to get into a category of overpolicing and yea very divisive.  I've been on both sides of the fence so I see the sensitivity but also see the negative side of feeling like you have to repress a very big part of you to cater to said sensitivities of some but not all others. I for one, whether anyone at all cares, think it's getting a little out of hand. We know what this/these boards are for. Children exist, they will be mentioned, and very rarely do I think it is with any malicious intent. Sensitivity is important as is knowing the audience but I agree with above, sometimes (myself included) we need to consider if our sensitivity or insensitivity is necessarily preventing the open sharing and sense of community that I thought was intended here. Thats just me, i know people wont all agree. 

dpjennifer

Maybe I wrong, but I feel like TW-ing miscarriage only adds to the culture where we feel like we have to keep miscarriage a hidden dark secret.    TW my loss was far enough along it was no secret, since I was obviously pregnant, but I felt like anytime I mentioned my child it offended and bothered other people and made them uncomfortable.  The TW talking about it here gives me the same feeling.

@holly321
All of this. I know that reading about MC may be upsetting to someone who is TTC #1 and may be apprehensive, but this is my life. I don't want to have to TW my life. I am constantly talking about my MCs and it's been a long journey over the past 2 years to be able to get to the point that I can be as open as I am. I am a HUGE advocate of speaking out against the stigma of MC now, and how it affects/effects (God I'm shyte at affect/effect usage) women going through it, which is why you'll notice I pretty much never TW myself or my signature. My losses, my depression, my TTC/TTCAL journey should not have to be silenced from the world, and definitely should not be silenced on a board(s) specifically for the TTC journey. 

msmeeseeks

I have a random assortment of thoughts about trigger warnings. I'll go ahead and put the whole thing in a spoiler...

Deciding what does/doesn't need a trigger warning in the dailies is a challenging endeavor, and I'm proud that I hang out on a forum with such intelligent, well-spoken, and thoughtful internet strangers. 

The hard part is, the dailies is (more or less) where EVERYONE on the board comes together to discuss TTC, and pretty much everyone is going to have a part of their TTC journey that could be triggering to someone else. Of course, none of the ladies here mean to hurt anybody! I imagine that's why the community came up with TTCAL, TFAS, and IF threads in the first place. I don't participate in the dailies, because I feel more comfortable in the TTCAL thread. I guess I'm sensitive, but there's loads of totally mundane stuff discussed in the dailies that bums me out. And that is no one's fault but my own! 
That being said, if I were participating, I would personally only mention my loss if it was important to the conversation, and I would put a TW on it and/or use a spoiler box. I'm not ashamed to talk about loss with you ladies, but I think a detailed discussion about it is better suited to the TTCAL thread. 
To the TFAS ladies- I haven't read that thread before because it doesn't apply to me and I didn't think I would be up to it. But after the events of yesterday I did read it, and I actually enjoyed reading about your experiences. I hope you do turn it into a weekly thread! Personally, I appreciate you guys understanding where a lot of us are coming from concerning TW for LOs. Your kids are a huge part of your life, of course! I wouldn't expect you to never mention that. My loss is a huge part of my life, and I'm sure you ladies would be more than understanding if I talked about that in the dailies, but ultimately I think the best place for me to talk about that is TTCAL you know?

TL;DR- I guess what I'm trying to say is, we should all be aware of our audience. 

Sorry if my rambling didn't make sense, gotta run to work but I'll be back later!

looeeze

doxiemoxie212 said:

Phrased another way, I think it's completely plausible for someone to find being single or not having the career they dreamed of or the death of a pet to be entirely, all consumingly devastating (again, truly, I do not think these things are trivial). But if we couldn't mention spouses, dream jobs or dogs? Cmon. 

But this isn't a forum for people who are trying to get their dream jobs or dream dogs. If this was a forum for people trying to get dogs or jobs (and sometimes can't), I definitely would be careful if/how I talked about my awesome and amazing dog or well-paying job. 

So I don't think there needs to be a TW when talking about your kids for the most part (but also, like, it's two letters that takes less than a second to type and it goes a long way to letting others know that you see and recognize and respect their struggles so maybe it's not that big of a deal?). I just think that a little bit of thought about whether or not to post some dismissive tibdit goes a long way. Like yesterday, @holly321 posted about her son's medical scare. That was totally fine with me and I didn't give it a second thought. It was something important and super stressful happening in her life and she needed to acknowledge it, and I don't think there was a person there who wasn't concerned right along with her for the health of her child. But there are other times when the mention of a LO seems like a throwaway line, and reading those small throwaways over and over and over can be really demoralizing for some, especially in a space where we intentionally seek to understand and be compassionate. 

I think a bumping TFAS up to a weekly is a great idea! Clearly, there's a need for it. And I know how important peoples' identities as a mother are. I can't relate to it at all but I'm desperately trying to. All of my friends IRL are parents, every single one. I have babies and kids all around me all the time. I do daycare pick-ups and there's a carseat in my car and toys all over my house and teething bars in my cupboard. But I've had to stop hanging out with my friends as often and have had to turn down invitations because after my loss, it's just too hard sometimes. And that sucks. My boss brought her kid into work yesterday and my hormones went nuts and I cried uncontrollably right in front of her. I look to TTGP to be my refuge from scenarios like that so I'm really just interested in making it work for all of us. And again, really appreciate everyone's willingness to even have this conversation.

pebbledam

@mileswithmyles - Well, it seems like we are already alienating a lot of people. So how do we make it MORE inclusive without alienating a different group. I personally don't even think the mention of children need a TW, I was just trying to figure out how to make a daily environment that is welcoming to ever go e TTGP regardless of whether or not they already have kid(s).

zamoraspin

@holly321 and @dpjennifer I tend to agree with you on the TWs for mentioning a loss. Like, I need a TW if someone is going to talk about the more graphic physical details of a loss (which can be an important and cathartic thing to talk about) but the mere mention that someone had a loss, to me that doesn't need a TW. 

mileswithmyles

@pebbledam I agree. I wasn't saying that one side deserves to feel more comfortable than the other. I think whatever is decided will probably have that effect because it is impossible to please everyone. I wasn't trying to be glib, 

dpjennifer

zamora_spin  Agreed! Obviously if I'm going into details about my MCs and gruesome details (usually only in response to questions about it), then that's like 100% on the TTCAL board or PM. But I refuse to TW mentioning that I've had losses. 

Not sure about how IF people feel, but I definitely agree on just knowing your audience and no TW for children/lo's mentioned. Also, no TW for MC or IF issues. Personally, I feel as though if YOU can mention your children that are alive without a TW, then I should be allowed to talk about MINE without a TW as well, even though all of mine are dead. Hopefully no one posts every day about how their children are doing with mundane tasks, but as a RPL individual I'm used to people espousing about their children and tend to just ignore those individuals IRL anyway. And if my journey bothers them, then they can just ignore me as well. 
It really just comes down to knowing your audience and knowing which discussion you're in...

kmalls

I guess it can all be boiled down to: don't be an asshole. 

Saying "omg I'm so hungry because my LO keeps stealing food off my plate! I can't believe I want another one of these!" Asshole. 

Saying "I'm really worried about my chart this month, DD has been up at night a lot and I'm not sure my temps are accurate." Not asshole. 

Does that sound about right? 

looeeze

@kmalls that's perfect.

dpjennifer

@kmalls  ABSOLUTELY!