I'm with @Elyse1384 1. Everyone has a job or family that tells on them. IDGAF if you're a dr or a custodian. 2. Consumers need to read their T&C's more carefully. Everything is laid out, nothing the airline did was illegal. 3. I get why he was pissed, I would be pissed as well but bro, when the cops come...get out your damn seat! It's a federal offense to not listen to flight crew, he should've complied at that point and it wouldn't have escalated. 5. It wasn't United that removed him from the plane in that forceful manner, it was CPD. 6. I'm sure the good Dr will receive a hefty settlement, I'm also sure he won't be sharing it with any of us concerned citizens. 6. The customer is not always right, like rarely actually when it comes to policies and disputes of those policies.
So over employees being vilified for trying to do their jobs. Does the policy suck? Sure! Does the flight crew have anything to do with the policy? Nope. Just listen and follow directions and no one gets hurt! *I'm holding back making remarks about the Dr's criminal past. Everyone has a past, it has nothing to do with this story. It's really hard not to be snarky about it though lol.
This goes with the United stuff. I am tired of people not listening to the police and then complaining when they get roughed up. I will add that yes there have been some places recently when the cops have been wrong and yes I will admit I am married to a cop, so some bias BUT
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
I'm with @Elyse1384 1. Everyone has a job or family that tells on them. IDGAF if you're a dr or a custodian. 2. Consumers need to read their T&C's more carefully. Everything is laid out, nothing the airline did was illegal. 3. I get why he was pissed, I would be pissed as well but bro, when the cops come...get out your damn seat! It's a federal offense to not listen to flight crew, he should've complied at that point and it wouldn't have escalated. 5. It wasn't United that removed him from the plane in that forceful manner, it was CPD. 6. I'm sure the good Dr will receive a hefty settlement, I'm also sure he won't be sharing it with any of us concerned citizens. 6. The customer is not always right, like rarely actually when it comes to policies and disputes of those policies.
So over employees being vilified for trying to do their jobs. Does the policy suck? Sure! Does the flight crew have anything to do with the policy? Nope. Just listen and follow directions and no one gets hurt! *I'm holding back making remarks about the Dr's criminal past. Everyone has a past, it has nothing to do with this story. It's really hard not to be snarky about it though lol.
I think that his past sheds a little light on what he did. He is developing a pattern of feeling like he is above the law.
I think the United stuff feeds into my UO - by not listening to the cops or staff he broke a rule and didn't get away with it. If it were me, I would have left my seat as I was asked.
This goes with the United stuff. I am tired of people not listening to the police and then complaining when they get roughed up. I will add that yes there have been some places recently when the cops have been wrong and yes I will admit I am married to a cop, so some bias BUT
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
I completely agree with this up until the last sentence... If you fight a cop you should expect to get some type of injury, for sure, but there are instances of excessive force and I don't think it's fair to put the blame all on the citizen's shoulders.
This goes with the United stuff. I am tired of people not listening to the police and then complaining when they get roughed up. I will add that yes there have been some places recently when the cops have been wrong and yes I will admit I am married to a cop, so some bias BUT
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
I completely agree with this up until the last sentence... If you fight a cop you should expect to get some type of injury, for sure, but there are instances of excessive force and I don't think it's fair to put the blame all on the citizen's shoulders.
The thing is if you are fighting back the cops has to protect themselves. They can't be gentle. What if you have a gun or a knife? Now, do cops use excessive force when the person isn't fighting? Yes, and that is not okay BUT if you start fighting them and don't listen to commands, I don't feel sympathetic.
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
This goes with the United stuff. I am tired of people not listening to the police and then complaining when they get roughed up. I will add that yes there have been some places recently when the cops have been wrong and yes I will admit I am married to a cop, so some bias BUT
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
I completely agree with this up until the last sentence... If you fight a cop you should expect to get some type of injury, for sure, but there are instances of excessive force and I don't think it's fair to put the blame all on the citizen's shoulders.
The thing is if you are fighting back the cops has to protect themselves. They can't be gentle. What if you have a gun or a knife? Now, do cops use excessive force when the person isn't fighting? Yes, and that is not okay BUT if you start fighting them and don't listen to commands, I don't feel sympathetic.
I totally agree that cops have to protect themselves. I've just heard of instances in which a cop was protecting themselves, but they went overboard and it resulted in major injury or death. Not trying to start a fight here at all. I believe the vast majority of cops are good people and do their best. It's a stressful job and I know I couldn't do it!
I eluded to it earlier, but DH had his jaw dislocated by an officer a decade or so back and I felt zero sympathy for him. Long story short, DH was drunk and got into an argument with a neighbor who was also drunk (we were living in a condo complex at the time). Another neighbor called the cops as he thought it was a physical altercation (it wasn't). When the officers arrived, I had managed to get DH inside our apartment, but he was so damn loud that the officers came right to our door. The officers knocked, DH opened it (red faced, clearly drunk and angry) and immediately the officers asked DH to keep his hands still and where they could see them (DH "talks" with his hands when worked up). They asked him to keep his hands still repeatedly and DH did not. DH got tackled and his head landed on our coffee table. My first thought... "serves him right!" Listen to officers! They don't know you from the next person and they just want to get home to their families at the end of the day. If you're acting like a security threat, you will be treated like one.
I'm a total hypocrite and totally agree that teachers do not necessarily "deserve" a break BUT I also absolutely positively hate it when people from other professions tell me, as a teacher, what I deserve and don't deserve. I work DAMN hard to educate our future (and apparently my coworkers but that's besides the point) so please don't tell me I "deserve" a lower pay or "don't deserve" as many breaks. I feel that educators are INCREDIBLY underappreciated so being told these things because I happen to have a few perks to my job irritates the crap out of me.
Yeah I guess going off a couple different topics here I believe some jobs are more important than others, doesn't mean they work any harder or have any greater value as human beings but the end result of their job is more important than mine. Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Cops. Honesty if it was between me and a doctor needing to get home and back to work, I can understand his need is a little more pressing. If it was between me and a teacher needing a refresher so they can be the best they can be at their job, I get it's a little more pressing for them.
This goes with the United stuff. I am tired of people not listening to the police and then complaining when they get roughed up. I will add that yes there have been some places recently when the cops have been wrong and yes I will admit I am married to a cop, so some bias BUT
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
I completely agree with this up until the last sentence... If you fight a cop you should expect to get some type of injury, for sure, but there are instances of excessive force and I don't think it's fair to put the blame all on the citizen's shoulders.
The thing is if you are fighting back the cops has to protect themselves. They can't be gentle. What if you have a gun or a knife? Now, do cops use excessive force when the person isn't fighting? Yes, and that is not okay BUT if you start fighting them and don't listen to commands, I don't feel sympathetic.
I totally agree that cops have to protect themselves. I've just heard of instances in which a cop was protecting themselves, but they went overboard and it resulted in major injury or death. Not trying to start a fight here at all. I believe the vast majority of cops are good people and do their best. It's a stressful job and I know I couldn't do it!
Sorry, if I was coming off combative. No fight here. I get what you are saying. I get a little worked up about police stuff right now. Being a cop's wife is not easy in the current climate. Sorry, if I was sounding argumentative.
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
@lovesclimbing. I will admit. I don't know that song......
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
@lovesclimbing. I will admit. I don't know that song......
It's called "Waitin' on a Woman" and is basically about how "I don't mind" waiting on his wife/girlfriend/SO and he's always doing that because women are always late. So sexist and stereotypical, but Brad Paisley has a lot of songs like that.
My UO is I think United handled that whole fiasco wrong. I think the DR was wrong. I think CPD was wrong. The whole thing was handled poorly by everyone involved. The responses from United's CEO made a bad situation worse.
Thankfully it's not my job to decide how it should have been handled. The only comment I've seen that seen that i agree with came from jetblue's founder: you don't have to drag people off planes if you offer them enough money
I think the airline is pretty clearly in the wrong here; while the passenger may not have behaved in the most rational manner, the culpability lies with the airline.
After the smear campaign against the poor woman who sued McDonalds in the 90s, I'm pretty skeptical of media spin surrounding David and Goliath-type confrontation scenarios. United has a bevy of high paid lawyers on retainer to spin this in the public eye. The foundation of the issue though is that they were in violation of their own contract.
United had quite a few other options they could have explored before resorting to physical assault on a paying passenger. The simplest would have been to up the compensation offered until they got 4 volunteers; they never even hit the federal minimum for involuntary flight delay. They'll pay far more than that now, and good riddance. Oversell margins (and this isn't even a true oversold situation) are a gamble on the part of the airline; sometimes everyone shows up and the airline loses the bet. There should be sufficient profit margin from the successful oversell gambles to cover the losses; if not they need to reassess their formula for ticket sales.
I have to fly Thurs for work and I kept saying "not United, not United." When our assistant showed me a very expensive option I was like let me jump online and see what I can find. I was so proud I saved us money but when I looked at my itin today I realized I booked United. Preggo brain forevah
Re: UO Thursday - 4/13 Edition
1. Everyone has a job or family that tells on them. IDGAF if you're a dr or a custodian.
2. Consumers need to read their T&C's more carefully. Everything is laid out, nothing the airline did was illegal.
3. I get why he was pissed, I would be pissed as well but bro, when the cops come...get out your damn seat! It's a federal offense to not listen to flight crew, he should've complied at that point and it wouldn't have escalated.
5. It wasn't United that removed him from the plane in that forceful manner, it was CPD.
6. I'm sure the good Dr will receive a hefty settlement, I'm also sure he won't be sharing it with any of us concerned citizens.
6. The customer is not always right, like rarely actually when it comes to policies and disputes of those policies.
So over employees being vilified for trying to do their jobs. Does the policy suck? Sure! Does the flight crew have anything to do with the policy? Nope. Just listen and follow directions and no one gets hurt!
*I'm holding back making remarks about the Dr's criminal past. Everyone has a past, it has nothing to do with this story. It's really hard not to be snarky about it though lol.
When a cop tells you three times to get out of the car, get out of the car. If you choose not to get out, and then fight them when they have to physically remove you. Any injury you get is all on you.
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
The whole thing was handled poorly by everyone involved. The responses from United's CEO made a bad situation worse.
Thankfully it's not my job to decide how it should have been handled. The only comment I've seen that seen that i agree with came from jetblue's founder: you don't have to drag people off planes if you offer them enough money
I think the airline is pretty clearly in the wrong here; while the passenger may not have behaved in the most rational manner, the culpability lies with the airline.
After the smear campaign against the poor woman who sued McDonalds in the 90s, I'm pretty skeptical of media spin surrounding David and Goliath-type confrontation scenarios. United has a bevy of high paid lawyers on retainer to spin this in the public eye. The foundation of the issue though is that they were in violation of their own contract.
This piece accurately summarizes my thoughts on the issue: https://www.dorfonlaw.org/2017/04/united-airlines-own-contract-denied-it.html?m=1
United had quite a few other options they could have explored before resorting to physical assault on a paying passenger. The simplest would have been to up the compensation offered until they got 4 volunteers; they never even hit the federal minimum for involuntary flight delay. They'll pay far more than that now, and good riddance. Oversell margins (and this isn't even a true oversold situation) are a gamble on the part of the airline; sometimes everyone shows up and the airline loses the bet. There should be sufficient profit margin from the successful oversell gambles to cover the losses; if not they need to reassess their formula for ticket sales.
DS1 - 7/2011, DD 12/2012, DS2 - 4/2014, MMC - 12/2015