Ah, the great bedtime debate. For me, it's all about if things work for you and your family. DD (3) has a relatively inflexible and early-ish bedtime because she becomes a nightmare if she doesn't get enough sleep - does this mean that we sometimes don't do things which would keep her out later? Yup, but that's our choice and thankfully I'm ok with it. I do get annoyed when people complain how their kid is still in their bed when they've made no effort to get them out.
This is very annoying to me too! I am a cosleeper and very happy to be. I don't complain, except maybe to mil because she lets me and coslept 5 times and understands 95% it's awesome and then sometimes you wake up with a toe in your ear or something equally as strange. But I know a couple that has 3 kids in their bed and they always were telling us watch out its terrible, we don't sleep, blab blah. But yet don't try to fix it. Dd had a rough day or two learning to sleep in her bed, but was fine pretty quick and goes to bed easily now. She does still climb in every morning though which I love!
Totally agree on the car seat and booster thing, but I very much play by the rules and dd is stil rf at 3.5 so...
and the the late thing. Also so annoying. I always have a 15 min-30 min buffer (depending on how far we're going) more for California traffic than kids. And yes sometimes things happen. But CALL seriously. Most people are understanding if you call before the appt or whatever and let them know what's going on.
The whole co-sleep but strict about car seat thing confuses the hell out of me. So co sleeping is been proven unsafe and so many babies die from it, yet you judge for car seats? I don't get that?
@Wino0920 they stay in their bassinet until they don't fit, then move in. I don't drink, ever. Blankets stay far away from us. I sleep really light and bf. I play by all the cosleeping rules. I used to be super judgy about that too, but when dd was born we were poor and lived in a terrible apt that year. When she was a newborn a guy was shot right outside our driveway. If she was in her room I could not sleep thinking about all the gang activity going on in our neighborhood. I was a stress case. Cosleeping was the only way I could sleep. Plus dd breastfed constantly her first year bringing her back and forth to her room would have resulted in no sleep ever.
Car seat safety is about the statistics mainly to me. 80% of car seats are installed incorrectly, but if your child is installed correctly they are the safest in the car, most likely to survive. Here in California it's law that you rearface until 2 so I will judge you if you break the law. I rearface still because she's tiny and still fits that way and it's safer, so why not? It's all about researching and doing your best. My cousins kid would get carsick really bad so she flipped him at 2. Her decision, no judgement. My dd does great rf still why take a level of safety away.
I also become extra nervous when I learned what kind of injury children get when forward facing too early. Their heads are too big for their necks to support so when their head is forced forward in a crash it snaps their neck, but keeps their skin intact. This is what happened to my uncle when I was a kid in an unrelated kind of accident and I have memories of him in a halo and he ended up committing suicide when I was 8. So neck injuries of any kind I'm pretty paranoid about.
But it really I just don't get why you would read the car seat directions? Get your car seat install checked for free? I know a 1 1/2 year old that is in a booster, I judge them. I know people who have their kids straps so loose that they move them over and get out to play while driving, and I judge them. Because those people are not following the law at all.
@lovesclimbing. The big one I had was when I wsd pregnant with DS and made people aware we were going to cloth diaper. All I heard was "you'll quit after a month." People bought us regular diapers and wrote on the note "when you give up and go to regular diapers". I told DH that even if we hated cloth diapering more than life itself we were NOT stopping. I can be so stubborn so times. Luckily we loved it.
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
@Kylieslip24 yes I am well aware of all the dangers of rear vs forward facing and all of that. You agreed with OP about judging about car seats. I follow all safe recommendations for car seats and sleeping. What gets me is when I hear parents judging on one safety rule while completely ignoring another. I get that you follow all the "co-sleeping rules" but that does not mean it's full proof or the safest for your child.
Convienance is the same reason people flip their kids early and change to boosters early, and your reasons for co-sleeping.
@kahlan82 This is me with the exact same issue. I was laughed out of the room at a family function when I said I was going to cloth diaper back when I was still in the "one day" phase. All the women told me about the endless disgusting blowouts they had with disposables (which felt to me like a really nonsensical way to endorse disposable over cloth) and how cloth would never work and "you'll see when you get there." It still grinds my gears to think about and I'm sure it'll be worse when LO actually gets here.
I have a personal problem with co-sleeping too. I am talking when there is a one month old just lying in the middle of the bed, no bassinet, anything. DH was very against it being a cop. He has seen too many bad situations, so I just couldn't. DS slept in his packnplay in our room for the first three months but I couldn't do in the bed as an infant. Too dangerous
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
True. But there are plenty of studies that show that co sleeping can bring sids rates down too. There are no studies saying the same about car seat safety. Also co sleeping does not always mean in the same bed. It could be a twin mattress on the floor next to your bed, a bassinet up against a your bed, crib next to your bed...
@wino0920 it's really high and mighty to assume that people always handle their children in certain ways for their own convenience. If @kylieslip24 feels what is best for her family is cosleeping and she does it in a safe way, what does it matter? From what she said, her reasons for wanting her daughter close are not out of convenience but out of fear for her safety.
Just because you have one view on safety in regards to one issue and an alternative one on another doesn't make you hypocritical or incorrect.
@wino0920 it's really high and mighty to assume that people always handle their children in certain ways for their own convenience. If @kylieslip24 feels what is best for her family is cosleeping and she does it in a safe way, what does it matter? From what she said, her reasons for wanting her daughter close are not out of convenience but out of fear for her safety.
Just because you have one view on safety in regards to one issue and an alternative one on another doesn't make you hypocritical or incorrect.
Exactly my point!!! She was being all high and mighty about car seats while, sorry, but co-sleeping is not safe!
She did co-sleep because of safety. Living in a bad neighborhood is not a safety reason. It was because she couldn't sleep and breastfed a lot.
It's the same thing if a parent changes their kids to a booster at 4 and 40lbs, it's the law and studied to be safe, even though waiting is safer.
You can challenge co-sleeping al you want, but it's not recommended for a reason, so if you are going to judge, get ready to be judged. It's ok not follow safety recommendations if it's co-sleeping but absolutely flame worthy if it's car seats. I don't see the why and I stand by that.
True. But there are plenty of studies that show that co sleeping can bring sids rates down too. There are no studies saying the same about car seat safety. Also co sleeping does not always mean in the same bed. It could be a twin mattress on the floor next to your bed, a bassinet up against a your bed, crib next to your bed...
Also want to point out that "co-sleeping" is not the same as bed sharing. What you're judging is bed-sharing. Co-sleeping is when the infant is just in the same room as the parents, perhaps in a bassinet, p'n'p or some other safe sleeping situation. It catches a bad rap because people assume the infant is in the bed.
Also want to point out that "co-sleeping" is not the same as bed sharing. What you're judging is bed-sharing. Co-sleeping is when the infant is just in the same room as the parents, perhaps in a bassinet, p'n'p or some other safe sleeping situation. It catches a bad rap because people assume the infant is in the bed.
I stand corrected on that. You are right, they are different and I shouldn't intermingle them. She is bed sharing.
I don't bed share with newborns. I bed share around 4 months though. Honestly I'm ok being judged. Doesn't bug me at all. I get judged and made fun of all the time for how I parent. Everyone around me thinks I worry too much or parents weird. I homeschool, extended rearface, my dd has never slept over anywhere besides with me, she doesn't play outside without me with her, I breastfeed and cloth diaper... I can go on and on. I'm judged for all these things, but I stand by judging people for not knowing how to use a car seat safely. Or worse just not wanting to.
Thank you for bringing up and acknowledging that cosleeping and bed sharing are not the same. Cosleeping on a seperate surface is the recommendation for 6 months min but preferably a year. I encourage everyone to read the updated safe sleep guidelines that were released a few months ago. They have included various sleep arrangements and ages that are appropriate including rock n play and cosleepers attached to beds that were not in the last version. Under 4 months is the most critical time period and also the time period most people use alternative arrangements. These guidelines have made me modify slightly what we did last time vs what we will do this time. Both are cosleeping arrangements. And my public service announcement is now over.
If you think so. I think they are very different subjects and my kid is more likely to die or be injured in a car accident with an improper car seat than she is to die sleeping next to me on a flat surface.
If you think so. I think they are very different subjects and my kid is more likely to die or be injured in a car accident with an improper car seat than she is to die sleeping next to me on a flat surface.
A quick google search and the first link was the Today show showing that a study of almost 9000 babies, showed 59% of the deaths of babies ages 4-1 were due to bed sharing. How is that different?
But hey, if safety is only a factor in your car, that's your thing.
@Kylieslip24 my DD absolutely would not sleep unless she was being held until she was old enough to be sleep trained. I'm not about sleep training a young infant so I held her at night. I didn't take the pain meds that were prescribed to me, I didn't drink, I didn't use pillows or fluffy blankets, she only slept on my side, etc. There are only so many nights in a row you can stick to your guns before you have to do what you have to do to simply survive. There is a such thing as safe bedsharing. Is it ideal? Absolutely not, but neither is passing out from sleep deprivation.
@Kylieslip24 my DD absolutely would not sleep unless she was being held until she was old enough to be sleep trained. I'm not about sleep training a young infant so I held her at night. I didn't take the pain meds that were prescribed to me, I didn't drink, I didn't use pillows or fluffy blankets, she only slept on my side, etc. There are only so many nights in a row you can stick to your guns before you have to do what you have to do to simply survive. There is a such thing as safe bedsharing. Is it ideal? Absolutely not, but neither is passing out from sleep deprivation.
Which is fine and not my original post. My original post was she bed shares for her own reasons but then turns around and slams mom's for chosing something that works for them, both issues being safety issues.
I would have never thought anything of the post until I read she judges on something she does.
It is the exact same as A mom saying "I was at my wits end with screaming, so I turned them forward facing!"
@doodleoodle exactly. Not only was I up breastfeeding all night I was worried about gangsters breaking in to my house or shooting on my street. We moved when she was a year old, by then I felt pretty safe bed sharing with her anyway. She's 3 now and sleeps in her own bed. This little guy will be in a bassinet until he grows out of it. Then we will either buy him an attached cosleeper or have him in our bed safely. I never drink. I have never smoked. I won't even take a Tylenol when my baby is in bed with me. I have done plenty of research and have talked to my pediatrician about it. I feel confident my children are safe sleeping in a bassinet and then our bed.
@Wino0920 I understand where you're coming from too. As mom's we shouldn't be so quick to judge each other. That being said, it would be a lot harder for me to justify putting a 1.5 year old in a booster seat than it is to bedshare when your young infant won't sleep any other way. There are so many safer options than a booster seat.
I wasn't trying to WK or anything, but I just felt like I should say something because I was one of the mothers who thought about bedsharing as a hard and fast rule until I found myself in that situation.
I hate bed sharing. Any recommendations on how to get DH out?
I sometimes with that the old school TV show standard of "parents sleeping in the same room but separate beds" was a real thing that people still did. DH was out of town for a week last week and I slept like a damn baby. It was glorious. And then he came back and started snoring again and it's all I can do to not strangle him in his sleep. This morning I was awoken at 4am by an elbow to the face. I may need an alibi at some point.
@delujm0 DH's grandparents have completely separate bedrooms and love it. My great-grandparents actually did this too and they were married for over 50 years. I actually like sleeping with DH when he's not gassy/snoring but we've already agreed to get separate beds after another 30 years or so.
I like to room in until my kids are 4-5 months. With the new recommendations I think we will longer this time. I use a stand alone bassinet or pack and play. We might just put the crib in our room this time since we only have 3 bedrooms on the same floor and my older kids are currently in them.
I was so paranoid I wouldn't even nurse my kids in my bed in fear I would fall asleep and they would slip down to an odd position. I got up and nursed in my glider. Which still didnt completely stop me from falling asleep on accident nursing when you are up every 1-3 hours every night. That was the hardest time for me with both kids. The fear I would fall asleep nursing and somehow suffocate my kid. So I could never bed share. Now that my kids are 2 and 4 they come to our bed when they are scared or in the morning and cuddles are nice. But I need my sleep space and cannot imagine sleeping with a baby in my bed.
My son turns into a monster if he goes past 10 o'clock. Mind you this is just on the weekend but it's horrible if we stay out late for an evening out with family or event.He gets a second wind and goes bonkers. We have a pretty strict schedule through the week and at times it was hard when he was going through different spurts but for the most part I think it's paid off.
That's why I'm paranoid of falling asleep holding my babies in the glider. But it's hard not too. I never got the hang of side lying nursing in bed (I feel like my boobs are too small??) so propped up on pillows in bed wasn't safe either. I don't really judge others for bed sharing I just can't sleep with a baby beside me. Maybe on a king size bed by myself with a baby but now I would worry more about one of my toddlers crawling in to bed with us!
@lovesclimbing. The big one I had was when I wsd pregnant with DS and made people aware we were going to cloth diaper. All I heard was "you'll quit after a month." People bought us regular diapers and wrote on the note "when you give up and go to regular diapers". I told DH that even if we hated cloth diapering more than life itself we were NOT stopping. I can be so stubborn so times. Luckily we loved it.
I got these comments about cloth diapering, too. So annoying.
This also reminds me of comments I have gotten now that dd is not tiny anymore. My mom keeps asking me, "Don't you think now with more experience that you didn't really have to go through so much to get her to sleep? Now that you know better you won't have to do that with the next baby." No, I do not think that. If this kid sleeps better as a newborn it will be because it is a different kid, not because I did anything wrong. She assumes I must agree with her assessment now that i have distance, not that she has always been wrong because she wasn't the one there dealing with it 24/7.
@ellie111227. I hate all that. Once we had one child, our friends had two. So then we heard, "just wait until you have two." All those, 'you'll change' and 'just you wait' get so old. Seeing as every couple is different and every baby is different, everyone's experinece is different. The only time I think it is legit concerns actions that have statistically proven to be safe or unsafe, then yes please share. Other than that....shhhhh.
Me: 34 DH: 35 Married: July 2009 BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013 Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016 3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3 First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
@ellie111227@kahlan82 I don't think people realize how discouraging those comments are. They seem to think it's a bonding experience when it really doesn't help. Lately people ask me how I'm doing and I might share that sleep is a little tough which is of course swiftly followed by an "oh just you wait" comment about newborns and sleep. Yea, got it. Babies make sleep hard. Doesn't mean I don't need or want decent sleep now.
@kahlan82@meilay Then as soon as the baby is born it's "Just wait until they start crawling/walking/teething/whatever! Newborns are so easy!" Personally, I hated my life when dd was a newborn, and it was incredibly difficult. It has gotten progressively easier since then. It's different for everyone. Some people have terrible pregnancies and easy newborns. Some people have colicky newborns and easy-going toddlers. Some people have crazy toddlers who turn into awesome teenagers eventually. Stop telling people what you think is coming for them!
A few ladies have mentioned a fear of falling asleep with LO in your arms (eg in a glider). Both my kids had horrible reflux and had to be held upright for 30 minutes minimum after every meal. It was horrible to have a sleeping baby on me after 20 minutes of nursing and being wiped myself. One idea that worked for me was to download a few songs onto my phone that I couldn't possibly fall asleep to (usually the type of music I work out to) and I would pop my earbuds in while nursing and then holding LO. It was great because it kept things quiet and dark for the baby (eg no TV noise or light) and kept me awake until time had passed. I even got to know how much longer I had based on the song haha. Just an idea if you're really worried or notice yourself drifting once baby gets here.
As a SW in a pediatric hospital, my perspective is extremely skewed. I have literally worked with the bed sharing parents who never thought it could happen to them. Sometimes they did it out of "necessity" (low income, violent neighborhood, reflux etc) and others out of parental choice. Before I had my son, I got blasted by a bed sharing friend on FB because she said "You'll understand when Youre a sleep-deprived parent." Well, I breastfed my son for a year and became well-aware of life with minimal sleep and it never changed my perspective. All it took for me was seeing a child who "survived" an anoxic brain injury to make know bed sharing was not going to transpire in my house. And every physician I've worked alongside has wholeheartedly agreed with me.
Re: UO Thursday - 3/9 Edition
I used to be super judgy about that too, but when dd was born we were poor and lived in a terrible apt that year. When she was a newborn a guy was shot right outside our driveway. If she was in her room I could not sleep thinking about all the gang activity going on in our neighborhood. I was a stress case. Cosleeping was the only way I could sleep. Plus dd breastfed constantly her first year bringing her back and forth to her room would have resulted in no sleep ever.
Car seat safety is about the statistics mainly to me. 80% of car seats are installed incorrectly, but if your child is installed correctly they are the safest in the car, most likely to survive. Here in California it's law that you rearface until 2 so I will judge you if you break the law. I rearface still because she's tiny and still fits that way and it's safer, so why not? It's all about researching and doing your best. My cousins kid would get carsick really bad so she flipped him at 2. Her decision, no judgement. My dd does great rf still why take a level of safety away.
I also become extra nervous when I learned what kind of injury children get when forward facing too early. Their heads are too big for their necks to support so when their head is forced forward in a crash it snaps their neck, but keeps their skin intact. This is what happened to my uncle when I was a kid in an unrelated kind of accident and I have memories of him in a halo and he ended up committing suicide when I was 8. So neck injuries of any kind I'm pretty paranoid about.
But it really I just don't get why you would read the car seat directions? Get your car seat install checked for free? I know a 1 1/2 year old that is in a booster, I judge them. I know people who have their kids straps so loose that they move them over and get out to play while driving, and I judge them. Because those people are not following the law at all.
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
Convienance is the same reason people flip their kids early and change to boosters early, and your reasons for co-sleeping.
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17
Also co sleeping does not always mean in the same bed. It could be a twin mattress on the floor next to your bed, a bassinet up against a your bed, crib next to your bed...
Just because you have one view on safety in regards to one issue and an alternative one on another doesn't make you hypocritical or incorrect.
She did co-sleep because of safety. Living in a bad neighborhood is not a safety reason. It was because she couldn't sleep and breastfed a lot.
It's the same thing if a parent changes their kids to a booster at 4 and 40lbs, it's the law and studied to be safe, even though waiting is safer.
You can challenge co-sleeping al you want, but it's not recommended for a reason, so if you are going to judge, get ready to be judged. It's ok not follow safety recommendations if it's co-sleeping but absolutely flame worthy if it's car seats. I don't see the why and I stand by that.
And my public service announcement is now over.
But hey, if safety is only a factor in your car, that's your thing.
I would have never thought anything of the post until I read she judges on something she does.
It is the exact same as A mom saying "I was at my wits end with screaming, so I turned them forward facing!"
I wasn't trying to WK or anything, but I just felt like I should say something because I was one of the mothers who thought about bedsharing as a hard and fast rule until I found myself in that situation.
I sometimes with that the old school TV show standard of "parents sleeping in the same room but separate beds" was a real thing that people still did. DH was out of town for a week last week and I slept like a damn baby. It was glorious. And then he came back and started snoring again and it's all I can do to not strangle him in his sleep. This morning I was awoken at 4am by an elbow to the face. I may need an alibi at some point.
I was so paranoid I wouldn't even nurse my kids in my bed in fear I would fall asleep and they would slip down to an odd position. I got up and nursed in my glider. Which still didnt completely stop me from falling asleep on accident nursing when you are up every 1-3 hours every night. That was the hardest time for me with both kids. The fear I would fall asleep nursing and somehow suffocate my kid. So I could never bed share. Now that my kids are 2 and 4 they come to our bed when they are scared or in the morning and cuddles are nice. But I need my sleep space and cannot imagine sleeping with a baby in my bed.
FFFC: I'm a guilt-free bedsharer
I am also a guilt-free bedsharer and have been for 10 years. DH and I also do not share a bed.
This also reminds me of comments I have gotten now that dd is not tiny anymore. My mom keeps asking me, "Don't you think now with more experience that you didn't really have to go through so much to get her to sleep? Now that you know better you won't have to do that with the next baby." No, I do not think that. If this kid sleeps better as a newborn it will be because it is a different kid, not because I did anything wrong. She assumes I must agree with her assessment now that i have distance, not that she has always been wrong because she wasn't the one there dealing with it 24/7.
Me: 34 DH: 35
Married: July 2009
BFP: November 2012 after 2 years of TTC DS born August 2013
Diagnosed with PCOS April 2016
3 months of trigger shot with timed intercourse BFN x3
First IUI: 9/17/16 BFP: 9/30/16 EDD: 6/11/17