@sjo_thetwins FTM here too, but that is also the pump I chose through my insurance. I had some of the other same options and the Medela got far better reviews than any other choices. It was also super easy to order through their website!
So @turtlemomma, here's my question- I have to go back to work at 6 weeks. How do I make sure he has enough for the first day without causing the issues you mentioned? Just start a couple days prior?
I don't disagree with you @NoraAurora - I wasn't speaking in absolutes. Of course there are situations that require a pump, but if you can avoid pumping, you'll be better off in the long run. I'm speaking from experience, as I freaked out and started pumping too early, then had to deal with oversupply, thrush and mastitis all at once, a situation @TurtleMomma alluded to. I'm not saying pumps are evil or you should never touch one before six weeks - I'm saying you should try other things first, IF POSSIBLE.
I think you jumped to the conclusion that I'm some BFing monger, when I'm totally not. I also can't stand when people speak in absolutes, but I realized from my first BFing relationship that there are some tried-and-true tips out there for a reason. My DD got bottles and breasts, after a long struggle with both. I'm just trying to save someone else the same frustrations.
So @turtlemomma, here's my question- I have to go back to work at 6 weeks. How do I make sure he has enough for the first day without causing the issues you mentioned? Just start a couple days prior?
@ashleyp625 the nurse at my breastfeeding class said to start pumping at 4 weeks, so maybe starting a week or so before going back to work would be a good idea? And actually she recommended pumping/bottle feeding even if you're a SAHM because you never know when you might need to be away from baby and if you wait too long baby might reject a bottle. However she also stressed the importance of waiting 4 weeks due to supply issues among other things as well as using a slow-flow nipple and paced feeding (tipping the bottle back and forth so that the baby doesn't get too much at once and it mimics the flow of milk from the breast). I believe she also said that when you pump, you pump to empty your breast, but I could be mistaken. Pumping less will lower your supply while pumping until empty will increase your supply (or maybe sustain it? Not sure on this one).
So @turtlemomma, here's my question- I have to go back to work at 6 weeks. How do I make sure he has enough for the first day without causing the issues you mentioned? Just start a couple days prior?
A few days prior is good. This is definitely a case where pumping earlier than the 6 week mark is fine.
*Find what works for you*, but some moms find that what they pump Monday, they feed Tuesday, and Tuesday's milk gets fed Wednesday, etc, and Friday's milk can be saved and fed Monday. Any excess can be saved/frozen. This system works best when paired with paced bottle feeding and a slow-flow/premie nipple so you're not wasting tons of milk (rule of thumb is 1oz fed per hour away from babe).
Some babes will not take a bottle, period. It's not a matter of how early you introduce it. Some babes just flat out refuse bottles but will accept milk from a spoon or cup or syringe. Caregivers prefer bottles because they're easy but there are different yet equally important ways to feed a babe who refuses a bottle.
@turtlemomma Can you recommend a resource for bottle-refusers? I would bet The Womanly Art (which I'm currently reading) doesn't cover that. I'm used to syringe-feeding guinea pigs... but of course I'm not the one who'd have to do the alternative feeding 'cause I've got the boobies.
So @turtlemomma, here's my question- I have to go back to work at 6 weeks. How do I make sure he has enough for the first day without causing the issues you mentioned? Just start a couple days prior?
A few days prior is good. This is definitely a case where pumping earlier than the 6 week mark is fine.
*Find what works for you*, but some moms find that what they pump Monday, they feed Tuesday, and Tuesday's milk gets fed Wednesday, etc, and Friday's milk can be saved and fed Monday. Any excess can be saved/frozen. This system works best when paired with paced bottle feeding and a slow-flow/premie nipple so you're not wasting tons of milk (rule of thumb is 1oz fed per hour away from babe).
Thank you!!! edit- one more question. When starting out, I'm supposed to pump after feeding to empty the breast, right? Not add extra sessions or anything?
Thank you!!! edit- one more question. When starting out, I'm supposed to pump after feeding to empty the breast, right? Not add extra sessions or anything?
Correct. With DD, I would do her early morning feeding (around 6 or 6:30?), then lay her back down and pump for about 10-15 minutes (until I felt empty) while I ate my breakfast. The morning is best because that's when your breasts are usually most full. I started doing this around six weeks and went back to work at eight weeks with PLENTY of extra milk.
OK, so I've just started my BF research, so this may be a totally ignorant question and maybe this has been asked before, but I have a registry/bottle question.
When I registered for bottles, nipples, etc, I just went off BRU's recommendation. Which was: 6-10 4oz bottles 6-10 8 oz bottles 8-10 slow flow nipples 8-10 medium flow nipples 8-10 fast flow nipples
Now people are buying things off my registry for my shower this Sunday and so far it looks like I'm getting a couple of each size/flow. But my budget will be tight, so what do I actually NEED in the beginning if I'm planning to breastfeed (if possible) and only pump once I go back to work.
Honestly, I don't even fully understand when/why you change bottle sizes or flow speeds. And some people have even told me that breastfed babies don't need bigger bottles or faster nipples. So I'm REALLY confused on if I should plan to exchange certain sizes for something else after Sunday.
@mommathoner- oh gosh no, by no means do I think you are a monger of any kind! I was referring to LLL and some of their rigidities. Absolutes, as you put it. And books can (and have) been filled with the dangers/causes/remedies etc of over/under supply, which is why I didn't want to go there. Sorry if I sounded like I was being personal with you- not my intention.
@krzyriver I definitely didn't need that many bottles. We probably had 6 of each size. We did wash bottles every night. We didn't BF for long though so we did use bigger bottles. My girlfriends that BF longer also used the 8oz bottles so I wouldn't not get them. All babies are different.
My advice would be to only open one package of bottles until you figure out what is happening. If you end up exclusively BF while at home you might not need all the bottles you've registered for and then you can return and use the $$ towards something else.
Also same with the nipples- all bottles come with level 1- slow flow. So you might want like a few extra of those in case a nipple rips- don't think you need 8-10. But you don't need to really stock up on higher sizes. Nipples arent very expensive. But like I said before- keep them but don't open them cause you can always return.
For bottles - there may be some styles that baby will/won't like, so it's a good idea not to have a ton of one kind & then risk them not taking it. Another situation in which prime is great b/c you can buy more at a moment's notice.
For nipples - you really don't need to start out with anything other than slow flow. Babies who switch between bottle & breast should always use the slowest flow bottle nipple, with the idea being that this way they won't develop a preference for bottles because they are faster (and won't self wean from the breast). If you find yourself switching to exclusive bottle feeding, you will know to switch to the next size up when baby gets kind of fussy/angry at the bottle while feeding.
@krzyriver I was told at the newborn care class and breastfeeding class to just use the 6-12 month size( size 2 orthodontic), slow flow nipples as our nipples do not change flow/sizes.
I put a few different types of bottles on our registry as well, but I'm still confused as to which to go for. The class instructors said it's not the baby that really chooses the bottle, but the ones feeding him/her. They did have recommended guidelines to go by for the nipples though.
Thank you for your responses ladies!! I only registered for one type of bottle, but I do have several other types at home that I got for free/cheap, so I'll only open one box and keep the other bottles in mind. And I definitely decreased the number of nipples requested. Lol. I will return the faster flow ones for a couple extra slow ones (if I don't get any) or for credit.
I feel like these questions should have occurred to me earlier. This is really making me realize how behind I am in my BF schooling. I need to get that book out and start reading....
@turtlemomma Can you recommend a resource for bottle-refusers? I would bet The Womanly Art (which I'm currently reading) doesn't cover that. I'm used to syringe-feeding guinea pigs... but of course I'm not the one who'd have to do the alternative feeding 'cause I've got the boobies.
There are videos out there, I'll try and find some tonight or tomorrow. I would think Working and Breastfeeding Made Simple by Nancy Mohrbacher would have sonething, though.
In terms of bottle sizes, you probably won't need capacities beyond 4-6oz. BF babies usually take an ounce or so an hour when done with paced bottle feeding. Even an older babe usually won't take more than 4ish ounces at a time.
The increasing capacity recommendation is based on formula feeding. With a breastfed baby, if they need more nutrition your breasts will concentrate the nutrients into the same volume they would normally consume. Formula, on the other hand, is made with a constant amount of nutrition per volume, so if babe need more calories (for example during a growth spurt) they have to consume a higher volume. So as a babe gets older and their nutritional needs increase, you increase the volume given, hence the need for a larger bottle. The varying flow nipples makes feeding faster for the parent, especially when babe is consuming larger volumes of formula. Breastfed babes need the slowest flow possible because our nipples are naturally slow flowing and it helps with pacing the feed.
Imagine having a cheeseburger in front of you. If you take big bites the burger disappears quicker and you're likely to feel hungry at the end because it takes around 20 minutes for your brain to register satiety, so you'd want another burger to feel full even if you don't need it nutritionally. Imagine, then, that you take small bites and spread them out over the 20 minutes. You're likely to feel full when you're done and not over eat. Same concept as nipple flow.
With all this talk about bottles, which bottles did you ladies register for or buy? I've seen so many choices and they are as overwhelming as trying to choose a stroller.
I registered for the Avent bottles w/natural nipple bc my friend used them successfully (not that it will mean it works for us). That said, my Moms on Call book recommends just the regular old school bottles with old school nipples (I think Gerber was the brand) so that'll be my secondary option if Avent doesn't work.
Thanks @bnsmith85! I have ONE hahaha ONE avent bottle (freebie with the amazon welcome baby kit).
@TurtleMomma, one of my friends said to me "careful with using paci in the beginning, they say it can mess with milk supply". What can you share about this? Thoughts? How does it mess with it?
Paci's are a tricky subject, honestly. Newborns have a high suck-need and it serves a huge purpose: their growth and upping your milk supply (especially during growth spurts). Paci's are designed to take the place of the breast and require a whole different set of motor movements to manage (compared to the oral motor movements involved with feeding at the breast). There is the potential to have a detrimental effect on supply when it is used too much (missed feeding cues from babe) and babe gets less at-breast time, which is crucial to maintaining supply. And as I said above, sucking on a paci is different than sucking on a nipple, so too much paci and babe might have difficulty coordinating their mouth and tongue around the breast (so called "nipple confusion").
By no stretch am I saying don't use a paci at all, but if you can avoid it for the first few weeks, do. The at-breast time serves a very important purpose in those early weeks and it often gets forgotten in light of "s/he's using me as a pacifier!" and the "I want my body back!" mentalities which are common in our culture.
The only thing I will say however about a paci is it saved my nipples from becoming destroyed in the first 3 days. It was worse my first baby, even though her latch was perfect my nipples were newbies and super wimpy. So if your baby is starting to hurt you and all obvious things are ruled out I wouldn't be as scared as some books say you need to be about using a paci. Cause if my boobs got torn to shreds I wouldn't of been able to successfully nurse and didn't have issues with milk supply or baby feeding. Some babies have the need to suck more than others.
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@annabenanna With DD, I used those fancy, overpriced Mam Anti-Colic bottles. Successfully enough it would seem, she took them, but she had never used a different type of bottle. LO used some basic 6 pack of bottles from Walmart. He too, was a successful feeder. Both of them spit up a lot, but neither were ever actually colicky. It is now my humble opinion, that as long as babe can manage the nipple on the bottle, it really doesn't matter what kind you use. Just do NOT try to switch it up once babe gets used to one kind. And don't mess around when it comes to burping! Get that baby burped good and proper!
@annabenanna With DD, I used those fancy, overpriced Mam Anti-Colic bottles. Successfully enough it would seem, she took them, but she had never used a different type of bottle. LO used some basic 6 pack of bottles from Walmart. He too, was a successful feeder. Both of them spit up a lot, but neither were ever actually colicky. It is now my humble opinion, that as long as babe can manage the nipple on the bottle, it really doesn't matter what kind you use. Just do NOT try to switch it up once babe gets used to one kind. And don't mess around when it comes to burping! Get that baby burped good and proper!
Thanks @AllyTheKid! I think in the end, it truly doesn't matter, does it? That's what it seems. Someone else said it's the parent that chooses the bottle, not the baby.
****dirty lurker************ I just want to add on the bottle sizes - yes BM will change to adapt to baby's calorie needs, but as baby starts to spread feeding as out to 5-7 hrs you will need larger bottles.
Formerly known as Kate08young August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Me: 28 H: 24 Married: 7/22/14 Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017. Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
****dirty lurker************ I just want to add on the bottle sizes - yes BM will change to adapt to baby's calorie needs, but as baby starts to spread feeding as out to 5-7 hrs you will need larger bottles.
Not true. Their stomach capacity remains the same regardless of age (~4oz of liquid). As they get older the milk concentrates nutrients because the breast also has a limited production capacity per feeding. Greater age needing larger volume bottles only applies to formula.
****dirty lurker************ I just want to add on the bottle sizes - yes BM will change to adapt to baby's calorie needs, but as baby starts to spread feeding as out to 5-7 hrs you will need larger bottles.
Not true. Their stomach capacity remains the same regardless of age (~4oz of liquid). As they get older the milk concentrates nutrients because the breast also has a limited production capacity per feeding. Greater age needing larger volume bottles only applies to formula.
That is a very unusual scenario. Were you doing slow flow nipples and paced bottle feeding?
Yes ma'am.
My BF son also took more in a bottle feeding as he got older, especially before bedtime. Slow flow nipples and bottle held basically at a 90degree angle with him sitting upright. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer.
@annabenanna I registered for the Kiinde Twist breastfeeding set. It can adapt to any pump so you can pump right into the bag, then the bag goes right into the bottle. It comes with nipples, but I read that it also has adapters so you can use any brand nipple with it. Plus later the bags can be used with the Kiinde Foodii system, which is a squeezy type pouch snack/food thing. I'm a FTM though, so no real experience... just looks pretty universal and cool. I also registered for the Dr. Browns bottles as well because they came highly recommended.
Re bottle size: I just bought 8 oz bottles because you can always put 4 oz in an 8 oz bottle...but you can't put more than 4 oz in a 4 oz bottle. We never ended up needing larger than 5 oz with DS but larger bottle size definitely didn't hurt, and would've been convenient had we needed it (i.e. cheaper than buying more bottles).
We also successfully used about 4 different brands of bottle with no issue (comotomo, avent, dr browns & some hippie glass kind )
That is a very unusual scenario. Were you doing slow flow nipples and paced bottle feeding?
Yes ma'am.
Wow! But hey, if it worked for you, great.
BTW, I realize my previous statement/question may have come off a little harsh. That was not my intent. In my experience with the moms I work with, larger volumes like that are not common with slow-flow nipples and paced bottle feeding, so I was a little surprised to read that. Ultimately, it's whatever works for you and your family.
Re: All Things Breastfeeding
It's a boy!
I think you jumped to the conclusion that I'm some BFing monger, when I'm totally not. I also can't stand when people speak in absolutes, but I realized from my first BFing relationship that there are some tried-and-true tips out there for a reason. My DD got bottles and breasts, after a long struggle with both. I'm just trying to save someone else the same frustrations.
*Find what works for you*, but some moms find that what they pump Monday, they feed Tuesday, and Tuesday's milk gets fed Wednesday, etc, and Friday's milk can be saved and fed Monday. Any excess can be saved/frozen. This system works best when paired with paced bottle feeding and a slow-flow/premie nipple so you're not wasting tons of milk (rule of thumb is 1oz fed per hour away from babe).
Some babes will not take a bottle, period. It's not a matter of how early you introduce it. Some babes just flat out refuse bottles but will accept milk from a spoon or cup or syringe. Caregivers prefer bottles because they're easy but there are different yet equally important ways to feed a babe who refuses a bottle.
edit- one more question. When starting out, I'm supposed to pump after feeding to empty the breast, right? Not add extra sessions or anything?
When I registered for bottles, nipples, etc, I just went off BRU's recommendation. Which was:
6-10 4oz bottles
6-10 8 oz bottles
8-10 slow flow nipples
8-10 medium flow nipples
8-10 fast flow nipples
Now people are buying things off my registry for my shower this Sunday and so far it looks like I'm getting a couple of each size/flow. But my budget will be tight, so what do I actually NEED in the beginning if I'm planning to breastfeed (if possible) and only pump once I go back to work.
Honestly, I don't even fully understand when/why you change bottle sizes or flow speeds. And some people have even told me that breastfed babies don't need bigger bottles or faster nipples. So I'm REALLY confused on if I should plan to exchange certain sizes for something else after Sunday.
My advice would be to only open one package of bottles until you figure out what is happening. If you end up exclusively BF while at home you might not need all the bottles you've registered for and then you can return and use the $$ towards something else.
Also same with the nipples- all bottles come with level 1- slow flow. So you might want like a few extra of those in case a nipple rips- don't think you need 8-10. But you don't need to really stock up on higher sizes. Nipples arent very expensive. But like I said before- keep them but don't open them cause you can always return.
Edit it mobile so words suck
For nipples - you really don't need to start out with anything other than slow flow. Babies who switch between bottle & breast should always use the slowest flow bottle nipple, with the idea being that this way they won't develop a preference for bottles because they are faster (and won't self wean from the breast). If you find yourself switching to exclusive bottle feeding, you will know to switch to the next size up when baby gets kind of fussy/angry at the bottle while feeding.
I put a few different types of bottles on our registry as well, but I'm still confused as to which to go for. The class instructors said it's not the baby that really chooses the bottle, but the ones feeding him/her. They did have recommended guidelines to go by for the nipples though.
I feel like these questions should have occurred to me earlier. This is really making me realize how behind I am in my BF schooling. I need to get that book out and start reading....
In terms of bottle sizes, you probably won't need capacities beyond 4-6oz. BF babies usually take an ounce or so an hour when done with paced bottle feeding. Even an older babe usually won't take more than 4ish ounces at a time.
The increasing capacity recommendation is based on formula feeding. With a breastfed baby, if they need more nutrition your breasts will concentrate the nutrients into the same volume they would normally consume. Formula, on the other hand, is made with a constant amount of nutrition per volume, so if babe need more calories (for example during a growth spurt) they have to consume a higher volume. So as a babe gets older and their nutritional needs increase, you increase the volume given, hence the need for a larger bottle. The varying flow nipples makes feeding faster for the parent, especially when babe is consuming larger volumes of formula. Breastfed babes need the slowest flow possible because our nipples are naturally slow flowing and it helps with pacing the feed.
Imagine having a cheeseburger in front of you. If you take big bites the burger disappears quicker and you're likely to feel hungry at the end because it takes around 20 minutes for your brain to register satiety, so you'd want another burger to feel full even if you don't need it nutritionally. Imagine, then, that you take small bites and spread them out over the 20 minutes. You're likely to feel full when you're done and not over eat. Same concept as nipple flow.
@TurtleMomma, one of my friends said to me "careful with using paci in the beginning, they say it can mess with milk supply". What can you share about this? Thoughts? How does it mess with it?
Paci's are a tricky subject, honestly. Newborns have a high suck-need and it serves a huge purpose: their growth and upping your milk supply (especially during growth spurts). Paci's are designed to take the place of the breast and require a whole different set of motor movements to manage (compared to the oral motor movements involved with feeding at the breast). There is the potential to have a detrimental effect on supply when it is used too much (missed feeding cues from babe) and babe gets less at-breast time, which is crucial to maintaining supply. And as I said above, sucking on a paci is different than sucking on a nipple, so too much paci and babe might have difficulty coordinating their mouth and tongue around the breast (so called "nipple confusion").
By no stretch am I saying don't use a paci at all, but if you can avoid it for the first few weeks, do. The at-breast time serves a very important purpose in those early weeks and it often gets forgotten in light of "s/he's using me as a pacifier!" and the "I want my body back!" mentalities which are common in our culture.
LO used some basic 6 pack of bottles from Walmart. He too, was a successful feeder. Both of them spit up a lot, but neither were ever actually colicky.
It is now my humble opinion, that as long as babe can manage the nipple on the bottle, it really doesn't matter what kind you use. Just do NOT try to switch it up once babe gets used to one kind.
And don't mess around when it comes to burping! Get that baby burped good and proper!
Formerly known as Kate08young
August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Married: 7/22/14
Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms
Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms
TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017.
Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
EDIT: For reference
https://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/
Formerly known as Kate08young
August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Married: 7/22/14
Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms
Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms
TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017.
Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
That is a very unusual scenario. Were you doing slow flow nipples and paced bottle feeding?
Formerly known as Kate08young
August '18 Siggy April Showers:
Married: 7/22/14
Baby L: 8/4/2015 August 2015 Moms
Baby E: 11/18/2016 December 2016 Moms
TTC #3 08/2017 BFP 11/27/2017.
Twin B lost 11/22/2017, Twin A doing well.
BFP #1: 7/15/15, SB: 11/14/15
Rainbow baby DS born 9/29/16!!
BFP #3 3/26/18 | Due 12/3/18
We also successfully used about 4 different brands of bottle with no issue (comotomo, avent, dr browns & some hippie glass kind
BTW, I realize my previous statement/question may have come off a little harsh. That was not my intent. In my experience with the moms I work with, larger volumes like that are not common with slow-flow nipples and paced bottle feeding, so I was a little surprised to read that. Ultimately, it's whatever works for you and your family.