UO Thursday

[Deleted User] · February 2016

Kate08Young said:

antoto said:

Kate08Young said:

antoto said:

DCHokiemom said:

@BerkeBaby , my comment was referring to school aged children, not grown adults. At that age, if a child feels uncomfortable using the bathroom for their specific sex, then they should have access to a unisex bathroom. That was my point.

I still think that silly. Would you also advocate for a lesbian bathroom? Also you would need a bathroom for mean girls because we can't have mean girls bringing down nice girls self esteem. And then there's the cutters and the anorexics... Shit, public schools better get more funding soon so we can build all these damn bathrooms.

Maybe we should just make sure that all the facilities, aside from sinks, have stalls. Then no-one 'should' feel uncomfortable using any bathroom.

Wait... other than urinals in boys bathrooms every single toilet does have a stall around it... were you of the belief that they didn't?

No, I understand that all toilets have stalls. I was merely suggesting that we put stalls around the urinals, so then no one is terribly uncomfortable using either bathroom.

... Pretty sure the only people capable of using urinals have penises....

Unless I'm doing something wrong.

Winnie81_Old · February 2016

This UO thread is spicy this week

[Deleted User] · February 2016

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

Snip

I thought we were supposed to "treat everyone with respect," or does that only work if my opinion aligns with yours??

People who have actually done/said something to lose my respect (being hateful, ignorant, mean) no longer get my respect.

Hmm, that's interesting. I find that in my life, I can have respect for and get along with all different types of people who feel differently about all sorts of things. For instance, I don't and won't disrespect anyone who thinks trans people are free to use whatever restroom they wish. I don't agree, but that doesn't merit disrespect, in my book. It's strange to me how aggressive and disrespectful people can be when defending their beliefs against someone they don't even know. Like, for real, you're being ugly and judgmental to people you don't know, at all. You assume that they're evil and not worthy of basic human respect just because they disagree with you about one thing. It's unfortunate and not the kind of thinking or treatment that prompts growth or unity. Rather, it promotes dissension and hostility.

Ohhhhhh dear. Okay let's look at the difference. You "don't agree" with someone (that someone advocating for minority rights) and you are brave and amazing enough to raise about that and get along with them. What I'M talking about is someone being hateful and wanting to further the torment of a group of already highly victimized people.

When I meet racist, sexist, homophobic people they do not get even an inch of my respect because they are actually harmful humans.

If we disagree about like... how sushi tastes I get along with them probably just fine

Winnie81_Old · February 2016

izza2 said:

My UO is that I am not interested in these debates at all at this moment.
Instead, I'm riding cloud nine from a chocolate chip frappe and the fact that jury duty was super short today.
And I'm love titting a bunch of shit.

Or, my UO is that I do not like the donation-sites that people can set up accounts on like GoFundMe. Like... you want me to pay for your Christmas because you have 6 kids and no husband? Or you want me to pay for your kid's school because their father is out of the picture now? Or for your trip across the country? Or your honeymoon? Your wedding?
I get the ones for schools and groups (sports, music, etc) to go to events that their district won't pay for, but... come on. When did it become the social norm to ask for "donations" because we want to do things in life?

Did you hear about that woman who started a GoFundMe page because she spent her family's entire savings on lottery tickets? It's ridiculous.

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

Winnie81 said:

This UO thread is spicy this week

So, yeah, it was 12:30 (or just after), and I thought to myself, "There's no UO thread yet! Guess it'll be a slow one today. I'll start it."

The notifications are just out of control! I want to chime in. I wrote a lengthy response, but my mind is like:

Image: https://media.giphy.com/media/gw3v1TuC90sh0aZ2/giphy.gif

and:

Image: https://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/abandon-thread-gif-cats.gif

Eh, I might anyway. I already wrote it...

Lulucooks · February 2016

Trans people should be allowed to use any bathroom they feel comfortable in. Locker room as well and we should teach our children to be respectful of other people and their privacy.

I've walked both myself and my daughter into a men's restroom when she had to potty so bad and the ladies line was out the door. I stood outside the stall and explained to the couple of guys who came in the situation. They were respectful and understanding.

I'm not sure why we have lost sight of that. Treat people how you would like to be treated. I know I would have been quite distraught had someone fussed at me for taking care of my child's needs in the non appropriate bathroom.

I promise you a transitioning Women isn't sneaking into the bathroom to look at anyone's hoo-ha.

CopperBoom86 · February 2016

antoto said:

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

Snip

I thought we were supposed to "treat everyone with respect," or does that only work if my opinion aligns with yours??

People who have actually done/said something to lose my respect (being hateful, ignorant, mean) no longer get my respect.

Hmm, that's interesting. I find that in my life, I can have respect for and get along with all different types of people who feel differently about all sorts of things. For instance, I don't and won't disrespect anyone who thinks trans people are free to use whatever restroom they wish. I don't agree, but that doesn't merit disrespect, in my book. It's strange to me how aggressive and disrespectful people can be when defending their beliefs against someone they don't even know. Like, for real, you're being ugly and judgmental to people you don't know, at all. You assume that they're evil and not worthy of basic human respect just because they disagree with you about one thing. It's unfortunate and not the kind of thinking or treatment that prompts growth or unity. Rather, it promotes dissension and hostility.

Ohhhhhh dear. Okay let's look at the difference. You "don't agree" with someone (that someone advocating for minority rights) and you are brave and amazing enough to raise about that and get along with them. What I'M talking about is someone being hateful and wanting to further the torment of a group of already highly victimized people.

When I meet racist, sexist, homophobic people they do not get even an inch of my respect because they are actually harmful humans.

If we disagree about like... how sushi tastes I get along with them probably just fine

I understand where you're coming from, but I still don't think it's okay to insult people and make assumptions about who they are as a person based on one opinion. It's a very difficult thing to do and it's something I struggle with on certain topics, as well. Like, for example, I'm pro-life. And it's not because of my religion or someone told me to think that way. It's because I am an *almost* abortion survivor. I have life because my 15 year old birth mother changed her mind about having an abortion while she was on the table. That has formed who I am and what I believe in that area. I feel very passionate about that and when friends, acquaintances, or even strangers on the internet avidly argue pro-choice, it's difficult for me to separate my anger and sadness from my disagreement. But I think that's what we must do- see everyone as deserving of respect until they actually DO something unworthy. And maybe that line is a little different for you and me, I don't know. I do want you to know I would NEVER even dream of doing anything to make a trans person uncomfortable. If I was uncomfortable for any reason, I would change what I'm doing, not try to make them change what they're doing.

And I hate sushi! I wish I could like it because DH loves it, but YUCK!

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

antoto said:

If we disagree about like... how sushi tastes I get along with them probably just fine

My UO is that I can't agree to disagree about sushi.

Just kidding, I wanted to use this random gif.

[Deleted User] · February 2016

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

Snip

Ohhhhhh dear. Okay let's look at the difference. You "don't agree" with someone (that someone advocating for minority rights) and you are brave and amazing enough to raise about that and get along with them. What I'M talking about is someone being hateful and wanting to further the torment of a group of already highly victimized people.

When I meet racist, sexist, homophobic people they do not get even an inch of my respect because they are actually harmful humans.

If we disagree about like... how sushi tastes I get along with them probably just fine

I understand where you're coming from, but I still don't think it's okay to insult people and make assumptions about who they are as a person based on one opinion. It's a very difficult thing to do and it's something I struggle with on certain topics, as well. Like, for example, I'm pro-life. And it's not because of my religion or someone told me to think that way. It's because I am an *almost* abortion survivor. I have life because my 15 year old birth mother changed her mind about having an abortion while she was on the table. That has formed who I am and what I believe in that area. I feel very passionate about that and when friends, acquaintances, or even strangers on the internet avidly argue pro-choice, it's difficult for me to separate my anger and sadness from my disagreement. But I think that's what we must do- see everyone as deserving of respect until they actually DO something unworthy. And maybe that line is a little different for you and me, I don't know. I do want you to know I would NEVER even dream of doing anything to make a trans person uncomfortable. If I was uncomfortable for any reason, I would change what I'm doing, not try to make them change what they're doing.

And I hate sushi! I wish I could like it because DH loves it, but YUCK!

Except that you are. By posting stuff like this online it is contributing to a culture of fear, misunderstanding, and even hate. Violence and intolerance does not appear out of nowhere. People who casually spout this sort of nonsense about bathrooms reinforce an ignorant, fearful culture that breeds disrespect, hatred, and yes even violence. So would YOU scream obscenities at a trans person? No. I don't think you would. But I think you are contributing to the culture that makes people who would do those things feel safe.

CopperBoom86 · February 2016

antoto said:

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

CopperBoom86 said:

antoto said:

Snip

Ohhhhhh dear. Okay let's look at the difference. You "don't agree" with someone (that someone advocating for minority rights) and you are brave and amazing enough to raise about that and get along with them. What I'M talking about is someone being hateful and wanting to further the torment of a group of already highly victimized people.

When I meet racist, sexist, homophobic people they do not get even an inch of my respect because they are actually harmful humans.

If we disagree about like... how sushi tastes I get along with them probably just fine

I understand where you're coming from, but I still don't think it's okay to insult people and make assumptions about who they are as a person based on one opinion. It's a very difficult thing to do and it's something I struggle with on certain topics, as well. Like, for example, I'm pro-life. And it's not because of my religion or someone told me to think that way. It's because I am an *almost* abortion survivor. I have life because my 15 year old birth mother changed her mind about having an abortion while she was on the table. That has formed who I am and what I believe in that area. I feel very passionate about that and when friends, acquaintances, or even strangers on the internet avidly argue pro-choice, it's difficult for me to separate my anger and sadness from my disagreement. But I think that's what we must do- see everyone as deserving of respect until they actually DO something unworthy. And maybe that line is a little different for you and me, I don't know. I do want you to know I would NEVER even dream of doing anything to make a trans person uncomfortable. If I was uncomfortable for any reason, I would change what I'm doing, not try to make them change what they're doing.

And I hate sushi! I wish I could like it because DH loves it, but YUCK!

Except that you are. By posting stuff like this online it is contributing to a culture of fear, misunderstanding, and even hate. Violence and intolerance does not appear out of nowhere. People who casually spout this sort of nonsense about bathrooms reinforce an ignorant, fearful culture that breeds disrespect, hatred, and yes even violence. So would YOU scream obscenities at a trans person? No. I don't think you would. But I think you are contributing to the culture that makes people who would do those things feel safe.

I truly am sorry you see it that way. I don't know that anyone would say I've been hateful, violent, or completely nonsensical in any of my posts, even my original post. I simply don't believe that gender is a choice, just like race is not a choice. People crucified Rachel Dolezal for transforming into a black woman. She said that's the race she identified with, the one she chose. So why can people chose gender and not race?

**If anyone has a legitimate reason why these two examples are not the same, I'd genuinely like to hear it. I'm not being sarcastic or coy- I see them as being the same, but would be open to hearing why they're not.**

letyourheartbeyourguide · February 2016

Well. I don't want to be struck down by the ban hammer, so this feminist is just reading through and going back and forth between

and

Image: https://media.giphy.com/media/B33saVGoouwNi/giphy.gif

I need to go buy some new office supplies.

Image: https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81sHNbVfpmL._SX466_.jpg

MamaMunn · February 2016

BerkeBaby said:

I also have a huge problem with places like Planned Parenthood being attacked and targeted. I know plenty of women who receive all of their healthcare from PP: mammograms, birth control pills, and pelvic exams. https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money They provide services to women.

YES!!! Why does everyone feel like PP is just and abortion mill and that's all anyone goes there for?? When I turned 18 my father (who's a huge jerk) dropped me from the family insurance because he said I was an adult and should be paying for it myself. PP was the only place I could afford to go and that would take me without insurance. They even let me set up payment plans when I couldn't totally pay out of pocket for my well woman exams and birth control. It just makes me so mad that people want to remove this type of organization from the face of the plant.

Lulucooks · February 2016

Image: https://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Untitled.png

ETA because I clicked the button
Race is an either/or sometimes and situation. Gender is not. It's a sliding scale.

MrsDho11 · February 2016

I love The Genderbread Person!

NamelessAria · February 2016

My unpopular opinions on some of these things are so unpopular I'm not even going to toss them out there for discussion because then no one will ever talk to me again except to flame me

**goes back into lurking for the day**

MamaMunn · February 2016

Todays UO got pretty heated!

I would just like to add that I wish women would be move supportive of each other in general. Why do we all have to judge each other so much? SAHM or working mom, cloth diapering or disposable, breast fed or not breast fed. The truth is none of us know exactly what other women are going through so instead of judging because they might not have the same beliefs as me seems dumb.

CoonMom · February 2016

My ou is I hate when a thread turns into everyone quoting everyone else. The entire thread is quotes. ..cut out what you want to point out and leave it at that! Sorry not sorry!

letyourheartbeyourguide · February 2016

CopperBoom86 said:
I truly am sorry you see it that way. I don't know that anyone would say I've been hateful, violent, or completely nonsensical in any of my posts, even my original post. I simply don't believe that gender is a choice, just like race is not a choice. People crucified Rachel Dolezal for transforming into a black woman. She said that's the race she identified with, the one she chose. So why can people chose gender and not race?

**If anyone has a legitimate reason why these two examples are not the same, I'd genuinely like to hear it. I'm not being sarcastic or coy- I see them as being the same, but would be open to hearing why they're not.**

There are a lot of articles explaining why transgender =/= "transracial". Here's one I just found: https://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/06/15/rachel_dolezal_caitlyn_jenner_how_transgender_is_different_from_transracial.html

You can't choose your race because you're born with your skin tone, hair texture, eye shape, etc. Yes, race is made up by society - society determined which features equal which races and what those categories are in the first place. But just because race is socially constructed doesn't mean you get to pick it - it's involuntary, you're born looking a certain way and society labels that as a particular race. There's no internal "racial identity" beyond the cultural significance and identity that's developed based on society's treatment of different races.

The Genderbread diagram that Lulu posted is a good description of the differences between sex assigned at birth, gender identity, and gender expression. You can't choose your sex assigned at birth, because you're born with your particular genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, etc. But there IS an internal gender identity. When trans folks transition, it's not that they're "choosing" a different gender like you might choose a new hair style or clothing. They're choosing to change the gender expression (the things that we all enact and do all the time, when we pick how to present ourselves) to match their internal gender identity rather than their sex assigned at birth.

Rachel Dolezal was born with white skin and blonde hair. Society calls that white. She essentially played dress up with some tanner and perms. Caitlyn Jenner was assigned "male" at birth based on physical characteristics, but internally is a woman. The transition from Bruce to Caitlyn was a transition to allow the external gender presentation to match the internal gender identity.

whiska · February 2016

Whoa, these are like The Bump Unpopular Opinions: Deep Cuts.

Internet arguments be like

CopperBoom86 · February 2016

@letyourheartbeyourguide - Thank you for your genuine and courteous response. I don't have time to read that article right now (it's 5:00 here and time to go home... woot!), but I will definitely read it later tonight and look at the diagram posted earlier.

picklesplease · February 2016

letyourheartbeyourguide said:

CopperBoom86 said:
I truly am sorry you see it that way. I don't know that anyone would say I've been hateful, violent, or completely nonsensical in any of my posts, even my original post. I simply don't believe that gender is a choice, just like race is not a choice. People crucified Rachel Dolezal for transforming into a black woman. She said that's the race she identified with, the one she chose. So why can people chose gender and not race?

**If anyone has a legitimate reason why these two examples are not the same, I'd genuinely like to hear it. I'm not being sarcastic or coy- I see them as being the same, but would be open to hearing why they're not.**

There are a lot of articles explaining why transgender =/= "transracial". Here's one I just found: https://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/06/15/rachel_dolezal_caitlyn_jenner_how_transgender_is_different_from_transracial.html

You can't choose your race because you're born with your skin tone, hair texture, eye shape, etc. Yes, race is made up by society - society determined which features equal which races and what those categories are in the first place. But just because race is socially constructed doesn't mean you get to pick it - it's involuntary, you're born looking a certain way and society labels that as a particular race. There's no internal "racial identity" beyond the cultural significance and identity that's developed based on society's treatment of different races.

The Genderbread diagram that Lulu posted is a good description of the differences between sex assigned at birth, gender identity, and gender expression. You can't choose your sex assigned at birth, because you're born with your particular genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, etc. But there IS an internal gender identity. When trans folks transition, it's not that they're "choosing" a different gender like you might choose a new hair style or clothing. They're choosing to change the gender expression (the things that we all enact and do all the time, when we pick how to present ourselves) to match their internal gender identity rather than their sex assigned at birth.

Rachel Dolezal was born with white skin and blonde hair. Society calls that white. She essentially played dress up with some tanner and perms. Caitlyn Jenner was assigned "male" at birth based on physical characteristics, but internally is a woman. The transition from Bruce to Caitlyn was a transition to allow the external gender presentation to match the internal gender identity.

Image: https://media.giphy.com/media/mDtdH6h0HuYkU/giphy.gif

I could not have explained it better. Excellent job.

MonaLisaRalphio · February 2016

@kateyoung08 I'm required to contact parents, too, and it's BS. I have 185 students. If I spent 10 minutes on each phone call (and, realistically, they're more like 15 minutes), I'd spend over 30 hours per academic quarter calling parents. I'm sorry, anyone else out there have an extra week of their life to spare? So I just don't do it. I keep my Google Drive open and updated with all my lesson content, I send home grades and have kids get them signed by their parents, and I send home a letter to the parents of kids who are failing for each semester. So far, that's been enough to get me by.

I'm going to disagree with you re: the PC thing. Foisting accountability on teachers as opposed to students/parents has nothing to do with PC-ness and everything to do with the devaluation of teachers as professionals. We spend so much of our time babysitting that less and less time is allocated for actual education, and it sucks, but it has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness.

@copperboom86 @DCHokieMom as an educator of high school students, I can tell you that in my experience, kids are not as uncomfortable with transgender kids switching bathrooms as you might think. My students have historically been welcoming of their transgendered classmates. The girls don't think of having a MTF trans student in the locker room as "changing in front of a boy" because, hi, she's not a boy. If we don't socialize our children to fear people who are different, they won't grow up afraid.

It is not our genetics/body parts that make us gendered. Gender is a social construct. We don't look down on people for changing their hair color, do we? We would think it's totally normal for a person to say, you know, I just don't feel like myself when I'm a blonde. Hair color is genetic, but we don't separate the blondes and the brunettes into different hair salons.

This question was pretty well answered already, but I'll add that gender can be fluid while race cannot because they are entirely different types of social constructs. Gender is a continuum, while race is definitive.

@britters314 @furbabymom2007 whoever gives you a hard time for "wasting" your education is not a feminist. That person is an asshole. I am a dyed-in-the-wool feminist, and I think it's great that you have the choice of whether to stay at home or work. That choice is the very POINT of feminism.

@atcwag THIS. I saw an "All Gender Restroom" sign in a restaurant the other night. The sign also read "Anyone can use this restroom regardless of gender expression or identity." I turned into a human heart-eye emoji.

I know some of this has gotten heated, but I wanted to say that I've really enjoyed a lot of the discourse. It's great to be in the company of such passionate, articulate women.

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

I wrote this before the thread really blew up. I kind of got carried away and it's a novel but I'm medicated at the moment (blehhh) so... yeah, that's what happens. When medicated I go between these two stages:

and

Several friends of my did the cloth diaper thing, their kids didn't potty train any faster/slower than average. My niece potty trained at under a year (disposable diapers). I think this is more about the training than anything else.

As for the feminism thing... I'm actually fine with women who say they're not feminists. I assume they either don't know better or don't care. Hey, whatever floats your boat. My father and grandfather raised me "on the job" during summers and what-not (school weekends when I got in trouble...). Father is a general contractor, owns his own residential home building business, and grandfather was a master electrician. There's not much I can't do in a house when it comes to building, and I am eternally grateful for that.

I also spent several years active duty military, and to say we shouldn't be paid the same because of strength inequality (which I would assume would apply after reading the railroad argument) will make me go BSC. I actually read this morning that "women in the military were disgusting and should be at home or out finding husbands." Oh, fun fact, some people treat you that way while you serve, too. We could go back and forth on that one all day, but it would not be pretty.

I'm honored that the women in my family were all strong women (in different ways). My great aunt drove in the first all-female convoy of transport/supply vehicles during WWII. Oh, and they most of them worked and cooked dinners for their families, except my mom... TERRIBLE cook. My dad and I always cooked. I honestly find it rude to just assume working moms don't take care of their families. Btw, I'm totally a SAHM/SAHW/SAHD/SAHH ally/supporter, but these stereotypes being thrown around are terrible.

Oh, and when I was a teenager (at about 110lbs) I was out trapping alligators (my dad's best friend was a licensed trapper for the state). We took them alive, and "trapping" doesn't actually involve any kind of trap. It was hilarious to watch grown men when they realized I was the one coming to the rescue.

All of that to say... I support anyone who wants to live in the "cookie cutter" world, but let's not say women are weaker and don't deserve the same pay/equality. That's degrading to women as a whole.

My actual UOs: I hate dog breeders (mostly backyard breeders). Three of our kills shelters here kill at a rate of 80% or higher. There should be licensing and restrictions. I worked in rescue and saw the ugly, horrible things that people can do to animals. I also hate chopping off tails and ears solely for aesthetic reasons. If there's a legit reason (brittle tail bones) then sure, but if not, stop hurting them!

I get irritated when people use "a" and "an" incorrectly. I don't like "dat <whatever> doe." It makes me want to throw things at the person saying it.

Sorry for the novel... I tried to trim it down but then kept writing more. Stupid meds AND PASSION. I have no idea anymore. Gifs from here on out.

princesslockness · February 2016

@lcsrva I had never looked at it that way. I will gladly concede to your explanation.

TheMostHappy15 · February 2016

I am LITERALLY the lurk-iest of lurkers but I had to step out of the shadows just to say THANK YOU to the articulate and passionate women in this thread standing up for feminists ("extreme" or otherwise) and transgender individuals so freaking beautifully.

There is nothing hateful or judgmental about calling someone who is against trans people using the bathroom that matches their gender identity transphobic because that is what they literally are: "phobic" i.e. afraid of trans people invading a space they don't want them to be in.

Furthermore, I literally can't fathom what the worst case scenario of a person whose physical appearance and body parts do not match yours using the same bathroom as you is. You see a flash of a penis? What is inherently shocking, disturbing or unsettling about glimpsing a part of the human anatomy? Why would you want to raise your kids to buy into the shaming and hyper-sexualization of the human body that has pervaded our culture until now rather than using this as a chance to build something better? I just don't get it.

gonetothesea · February 2016

So much love titting going on right now from me.

On the bathroom issue -- I have never once, in my 30 years of life, ever had to flash my boobs or vag to get into the women's bathroom. Soooo, not sure how women would feel uncomfortable at all with someone transitioning using a stall next to them. I guarantee we have all used a bathroom with someone transitioning and not have known it.

And there's no such thing as an "extreme" or "kind of sort of" feminist. You either are one or you're not. Being a feminist is celebrating being a woman, simply put.

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

@PeggyOlsonFTW, @MamaBish, @PrimRoseMama
HEY!!!!! Glad you still check in on us.

I would do that with you (and the rest of the grads), but it would be more awkward probably. Hope all is well!

ETA: If I miss any tags I'm sorry! I'm still a bit loopy but I can feel my left arm a little again!
ETA: tag

Image: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z708Q_Dl3Ko/UqePZST7ftI/AAAAAAAAChg/3cWwnM0fzfI/s1600/Colbert+Wave.gif

MamaMunn · February 2016

Some of the comments reminded me of an UO I have. At least within some people I know...

I think it is totally acceptable (and something I will do with my future children) for kids to learn the proper terms for their anatomy. Why do people freak out so much when kids are taught its a penis and a vagina instead of a wee-wee and coochie?! Blows my mind.

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

@MamaMunn, I've read some blurbs from doctors who had to explain to grown adults what the proper name was for whatever part in question. One doctor just gave up because the guy couldn't handle learning "penis" so doc just went with "dick" instead. Another woman didn't know why she bled every month, and she had children. I'm now searching for the link.

ETA: one woman was totally cool with her foot being amputated... turns out she thought it would grow back. I have got to find this.

ETA: found two links... the stories were pulled off redit from a doctor tell all thing. Or Something. Words are hard right now.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/16-doctors-on-the-dumbest-patients-they-have-ever-treated#.dswKKnAAGP

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/things-patients-say-to-doctors#.oj8ddNllEn

DCHokiemom · February 2016

I am literally shocked at how nasty some of these responses are. At no time did I say anything transphobic. I was literally referring to making unisex bathrooms available for children that didn't feel comfortable using their own restrooms, and I have now been labeled a transphobic, asshole, harmful to society......

I think anyone that knows me here, and I post pretty frequently, knows I am not one to post nasty, discriminatory crap. But to have someone I have never met, nor engaged with in any sort of conversation outside ONE thread on the hundreds I participate on weekly is ridiculous.

And I am not completely ignorant to the plight of homosexual or transgender people as my brother just came out last year. We talk about these same topics on the regular, sometimes agreeing, sometimes not....but he never has shown the level of disrespect that I have seen from some of the women on this thread.

LadyMillil · February 2016

Major love-titting and side-eye-ing going on in this thread.

https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

houseofsetters · February 2016

NovaSaysNo said:

@MamaMunn, I've read some blurbs from doctors who had to explain to grown adults what the proper name was for whatever part in question. One doctor just gave up because the guy couldn't handle learning "penis" so doc just went with "dick" instead. Another woman didn't know why she bled every month, and she had children. I'm now searching for the link.

ETA: one woman was totally cool with her foot being amputated... turns out she thought it would grow back. I have got to find this.

ETA: found two links... the stories were pulled off redit from a doctor tell all thing. Or Something. Words are hard right now.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/16-doctors-on-the-dumbest-patients-they-have-ever-treated#.dswKKnAAGP

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/things-patients-say-to-doctors#.oj8ddNllEn

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

If you want another example of crazy patients I have one (rather stealing from my mom who was a nurse for over 20 years, and spent many nights as the on-call nurse).
A woman paged my mom one evening. We were about to eat dinner. My mom calls her back. Conversation goes like this:
Mom: What's the problem?
Woman: My daughter ate ants!
Mom: Is she swelling, red, in distress, anything at all? Tell me how she is.
Woman: Oh, she seems just and she's not allergic to them, but I was just worried they would bite her insides.
Mom: Well, if there's no swelling/redness or distress, I would say she's fine. Kids do that. Just don't let her eat more ants and keep an eye on her. Call if anything changes. (about to get off the phone)
Woman: Oh, good, thanks! Yeah, I'll call you if anything changes. I gave her a little bit of rat poison just in case. You know, to make sure they are all dead.
Mom: Get to the fucking hospital now.

And then CPS got involved. I actually read an article a couple years later where another woman did the same thing... wtf?

ALittleCountry · February 2016

Actually, you didn't say that unisex bathrooms should be made available to anyone. You said "I don't think transgendered boys should be allowed to use the girls locker room or restrooms at public schools."

And yes, the following is transphobic:

DCHokiemom said:

Has anyone taken into account how they may feel to undress in front of a boy (regardless if that boy calls himself "she")....

ETA: just because you have a friend or family member that is homosexual doesn't mean you "understand the plight of homosexual or transgendered people." It doesn't even mean you aren't biased. A homosexual brother doesn't negate the possibility of you having biases.

MrsDho11 · February 2016

@NovaSaysNo - OMG, WHAT?! "I gave her a little rat poison..."?!!!!!
I. just. WHAT?!

I assume she thought it was okay because her daughter isn't a rat?

Bringmemylongswordho · February 2016

ALittleCountry said:

Actually, you didn't say that unisex bathrooms should be made available to anyone. You said "I don't think transgendered boys should be allowed to use the girls locker room or restrooms at public schools."

And yes, the following is transphobic:

DCHokiemom said:

Has anyone taken into account how they may feel to undress in front of a boy (regardless if that boy calls himself "she")....

NovaSaysNo · February 2016

@MrsDho11, yeah she said something like that to the CPS worker. Something like how rats were small and she only gave her enough to kill the ants. Crazy people.

DCHokiemom · February 2016

ALittleCountry said:

Actually, you didn't say that unisex bathrooms should be made available to anyone. You said "I don't think transgendered boys should be allowed to use the girls locker room or restrooms at public schools."

And yes, the following is transphobic:

DCHokiemom said:

Has anyone taken into account how they may feel to undress in front of a boy (regardless if that boy calls himself "she")....

ETA: just because you have a friend or family member that is homosexual doesn't mean you "understand the plight of homosexual or transgendered people." It doesn't even mean you aren't biased. A homosexual brother doesn't negate the possibility of you having biases.

Dude, f'ing semantics.

I actually do understand the plight of homosexual people because I went through 5 years of hell, having a brother that was in and out of mental hospitals, rehab, half way houses....all because he couldn't figure out who he was and whether what he was doing was ok. It RUINED my family. When we found out the reason for his depression and drug abuse was something as meaningless as homosexuality, we were f*cking ELATED. So screw you and your judgement. You know nothing about me or how I feel about anything.

anj27 · February 2016

CopperBoom86 said:
I understand where you're coming from, but I still don't think it's okay to insult people and make assumptions about who they are as a person based on one opinion. It's a very difficult thing to do and it's something I struggle with on certain topics, as well. Like, for example, I'm pro-life. And it's not because of my religion or someone told me to think that way. It's because I am an *almost* abortion survivor. I have life because my 15 year old birth mother changed her mind about having an abortion while she was on the table. That has formed who I am and what I believe in that area. I feel very passionate about that and when friends, acquaintances, or even strangers on the internet avidly argue pro-choice, it's difficult for me to separate my anger and sadness from my disagreement. But I think that's what we must do- see everyone as deserving of respect until they actually DO something unworthy. And maybe that line is a little different for you and me, I don't know. I do want you to know I would NEVER even dream of doing anything to make a trans person uncomfortable. If I was uncomfortable for any reason, I would change what I'm doing, not try to make them change what they're doing.

And I hate sushi! I wish I could like it because DH loves it, but YUCK!

@CopperBoom86 I can see why you would be passionate and emotional about abortion issues and I appreciate you sharing your experience and your point of view. I just would like to say that your mother made a CHOICE not to abort you and that is what pro-choice people want to ensure for every woman - to decide for themselves, for their situation, for their families, for their bodies. A lack of choice, one way or the other, can't be right for everyone.

And I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but it becomes an entirely different story when opinions become actions and actually affect other people's lives.

letyourheartbeyourguide · February 2016

DCHokiemom said:

ALittleCountry said:

Actually, you didn't say that unisex bathrooms should be made available to anyone. You said "I don't think transgendered boys should be allowed to use the girls locker room or restrooms at public schools."

And yes, the following is transphobic:

DCHokiemom said:

Has anyone taken into account how they may feel to undress in front of a boy (regardless if that boy calls himself "she")....

ETA: just because you have a friend or family member that is homosexual doesn't mean you "understand the plight of homosexual or transgendered people." It doesn't even mean you aren't biased. A homosexual brother doesn't negate the possibility of you having biases.

Dude, f'ing semantics.

I actually do understand the plight of homosexual people because I went through 5 years of hell, having a brother that was in and out of mental hospitals, rehab, half way houses....all because he couldn't figure out who he was and whether what he was doing was ok. It RUINED my family. When we found out the reason for his depression and drug abuse was something as meaningless as homosexuality, we were f*cking ELATED. So screw you and your judgement. You know nothing about me or how I feel about anything.

First of all, homosexuality =/= transgender. So it's entirely possible to have experiences/exposure to one and not the other.

Second, this:

DCHokiemom said:

I was literally referring to making unisex bathrooms available for children that didn't feel comfortable using their own restrooms, and I have now been labeled a transphobic, asshole, harmful to society......

I want to make sure I understand what you mean by "children that didn't feel comfortable using their own restrooms." Are you referring here to a transgender girl (who you described as a boy who "calls himself 'she'") not being comfortable using the boys' bathroom?

A transgender girl is a girl. To say she should use her "own restroom" is rejecting her gender identity as a girl, and rejecting the reality of transgender experiences. To frame it as "the other girls would be uncomfortable" (from the original post about this) is reinforcing and legitimating the misinformation and fear that people have about transgender individuals, which feeds and supports transphobia and discrimination against trans folks.

This is not just a "use the unisex handicapped bathroom!" nitpicking semantics issue. Nearly half of all trans folks attempt suicide, compared to about 4% of the general population. The rejection, dismissal, lack of knowledge, and utter contempt by supposedly well-meaning individuals (and the blatantly discriminatory ones as well) that they face is certainly a contributing factor.

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TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

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Married: October 2012

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3 Furbabies

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow

TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTGP February Siggy Challenge

Me: 28

DH: 29

Married: October 2012

TTC #1 since September 2015

3 Furbabies

TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow

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