Gender

cantobean · July 2015

HBirdie said:

cantobean said:

inomniaparatus said:
It's really easy to spend 700 on a family gathering - just saying.
The cake itself is at least 200.. Then you have appetizers and a meal (at least 300) and booze ... That's 700 right there. Not that weird...

$700 on a party with 12 guests seems pretty excessive. I mean, if you've got the kind of money to toss off $700 on a small party, go for it, but I certainly would not spend that kind of money on something like this.

Exactly. Sure, spend your money however you want, but that's a lot. We didn't even spend $200 total on DS's first birthday party, and there were more than 12 people there. ETA: And yes, we fed everyone plenty of food, there was cake, there were decorations, and favors. No booze, because, uh, it's a one year old's birthday party and we aren't a big drinking family.

Yeah, I think we spent about $300 on DH's 30th bday party. That was booze, apps, and desserts for about 30 people.

inomniaparatus · July 2015

I

HBirdie said:

cantobean said:

inomniaparatus said:
It's really easy to spend 700 on a family gathering - just saying.
The cake itself is at least 200.. Then you have appetizers and a meal (at least 300) and booze ... That's 700 right there. Not that weird...

$700 on a party with 12 guests seems pretty excessive. I mean, if you've got the kind of money to toss off $700 on a small party, go for it, but I certainly would not spend that kind of money on something like this.

Exactly. Sure, spend your money however you want, but that's a lot. We didn't even spend $200 total on DS's first birthday party, and there were more than 12 people there. ETA: And yes, we fed everyone plenty of food, there was cake, there were decorations, and favors. No booze, because, uh, it's a one year old's birthday party and we aren't a big drinking family.

I live in NYC I'm sure prices are way different. It costs at least $50 a night eating a casual meal at home for just my husband and I-- going out to a casual restaurant is double that.
And I wouldn't invite adults to a party without wine and beer like - ever.

HBirdie · July 2015

inomniaparatus said:

I

cantobean said:

It's really easy to spend 700 on a family gathering - just saying. The cake itself is at least 200.. Then you have appetizers and a meal (at least 300) and booze ... That's 700 right there. Not that weird...
$700 on a party with 12 guests seems pretty excessive. I mean, if you've got the kind of money to toss off $700 on a small party, go for it, but I certainly would not spend that kind of money on something like this.

Exactly. Sure, spend your money however you want, but that's a lot. We didn't even spend $200 total on DS's first birthday party, and there were more than 12 people there. ETA: And yes, we fed everyone plenty of food, there was cake, there were decorations, and favors. No booze, because, uh, it's a one year old's birthday party and we aren't a big drinking family.
I live in NYC I'm sure prices are way different. It costs at least $50 a night eating a casual meal at home for just my husband and I-- going out to a casual restaurant is double that. And I wouldn't invite adults to a party without wine and beer like - ever.

That's fine, that's your family/friends, and your prerogative. But you sound pretty judgmental about it. Most of our family either don't drink at all, or drink very rarely. And sorry, but if you need alcohol to get through a baby shower, sex reveal party, or child's birthday party, there's something wrong there.

I do understand how cost of living can affect the cost of a party. I still think $700 is a ridiculous amount to spend on an event like this.

anamilia · July 2015

inomniaparatus said:

It's really easy to spend 700 on a family gathering - just saying. The cake itself is at least 200.. Then you have appetizers and a meal (at least 300) and booze ... That's 700 right there. Not that weird...

I agree with you, but I also think that this has to do with where you live. I live in the Bay Area and I can see how $700 can happen quickly, but in my hometown of Ft.Lauderdale, it wouldn't be as much. And where my Brother lives, in Mississippi, it wouldn't even come close. I mean for $200 in my brothers town, I would get like 3 gourmet cakes. Here in the bay area, unless you just get supermarket cupcakes, cupcakes , 12 cupcakes cost around $45 plus tax. And that's not even custom decorated or anything. Just from Sprinkles or Kara's or one of the many other cupcake stores or bakeries. So yeah, a custom decorated cake, can run around $200.

Miss Lilac · July 2015

I don't mind spending money on a party. I think I just... don't get these parties to reveal the sex. Do people who have them also have baby showers? What's the point? If you're going to be happy no matter what the sex then why does there need to be a big spectacle made of finding out?

It's like, graduation parties - I get it. You're celebrating an event. But if someone had a party to reveal their final exam grades I'd roll my eyes so hard. Your grades don't matter to me, I'm just glad you freaking graduated.

inomniaparatus · July 2015

HBirdie said:

inomniaparatus said:

I
HBirdie said:

cantobean said:

inomniaparatus said:
It's really easy to spend 700 on a family gathering - just saying.
The cake itself is at least 200.. Then you have appetizers and a meal (at least 300) and booze ... That's 700 right there. Not that weird...

$700 on a party with 12 guests seems pretty excessive. I mean, if you've got the kind of money to toss off $700 on a small party, go for it, but I certainly would not spend that kind of money on something like this.

Exactly. Sure, spend your money however you want, but that's a lot. We didn't even spend $200 total on DS's first birthday party, and there were more than 12 people there. ETA: And yes, we fed everyone plenty of food, there was cake, there were decorations, and favors. No booze, because, uh, it's a one year old's birthday party and we aren't a big drinking family.
I live in NYC I'm sure prices are way different. It costs at least $50 a night eating a casual meal at home for just my husband and I-- going out to a casual restaurant is double that.
And I wouldn't invite adults to a party without wine and beer like - ever.

That's fine, that's your family/friends, and your prerogative. But you sound pretty judgmental about it. Most of our family either don't drink at all, or drink very rarely. And sorry, but if you need alcohol to get through a baby shower, sex reveal party, or child's birthday party, there's something wrong there.

I do understand how cost of living can affect the cost of a party. I still think $700 is a ridiculous amount to spend on an event like this.

You don't sound judgmental at all.

bookqueen · July 2015

What the heck?? I barely spend $700 on Christmas some times. Lol, I can't imagine spending that much on a party.

hosea214 · July 2015

Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.

HBirdie · July 2015

**Removed for TOU violation**

wisco29 · July 2015

hosea214 said:
Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.

You're purposely using the wrong words to prove what exactly?

I don't count that as a win at all, but okay.

g8trkim · July 2015

hosea214 said:

Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.

eliztheforrizz · July 2015

hosea214 said:

Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.

missemmawoodhouse · July 2015

hosea214 said:
Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.

I'm going to say the sky is purple. Doesn't make me correct, though.

HBirdie · July 2015

missemmawoodhouse said:

Don't be the word police. Many people believe differently than you. Gender is still acceptable in many cultures and circles. Lol. SMH. I'm gonna use gender every time now.
I'm going to say the sky is purple. Doesn't make me correct, though.

And the moon is made of cheese. Don't be the moon police!

hosea214 · July 2015

From dictionary. 1. Sex....They are interchangeable....

what you are all talking about is gender identity. But yes gender and sex are the same.

hosea214 · July 2015

And yes, I was being snarky and immature, but I thought that's what was happening here?

VitaLuna · July 2015

hosea214 said:
And yes, I was being snarky and immature, but I thought that's what was happening here?

You missed the boat on snarky and went straight for immature.

eliztheforrizz · July 2015

hosea214 said:

And yes, I was being snarky and immature, but I thought that's what was happening here?

wisco29 · July 2015

hosea214 said:
And yes, I was being snarky and immature, but I thought that's what was happening here?

I missed where you were snarky... I only saw immature.

Leelo4 · July 2015

I do get the point of this argument - that we need language to distinguish two different ideas about physical and mental states of sexual expression. But as @hosea214 correctly points out, the dictonary still defines 'gender' as meaning 'sex'. My doctor, TB website and many, many others still use it that way. People who use it that way on this site (while they should know what they are in for) are certainly not wrong by any sort of language standard.

The idea that we have to get into this whole discussion every time someone is just wanting to address the sex/gender(gasp) of their child is getting tiresome. This is not really the place for it. We all know what they are talking about.

Nobody is wrong here. Maybe 'gender' will someday mean exclusively a mental state of sexuality - but for now it can and does still mean 'sex'.

SuperTrooper2 · July 2015

**Removed for TOU violation**

OctoberStars · July 2015

SuperTrooper2 said:
You guys are so childish arguing about what words mean! If you were having a verbal conversation with an aqaintence or stranger at the grocery store and they said the word "gender" are you going to blow up on them and pull out your phone to show them what the dictionary and your meaning of that word is?!! You are pretty brave behind a keyboard. Seriously. Get over it. You all need to go with people's intentions on the use of the word, not your all of the sudden literal meaning that you think everyone needs to strictly adhere to. It's rather embarrassing to read.

Yes, there's nothing more childish than arguing over the correct definition of words. Don't you just hate when kids at the playground argue over semantics? Grow up, children. I mean, leave the complex sociological, psychological, and ethical repercussions of using one word or the other to infants. It's embarrassing, children.

HBirdie · July 2015

SuperTrooper2 said:

You guys are so childish arguing about what words mean! If you were having a verbal conversation with an aqaintence or stranger at the grocery store and they said the word "gender" are you going to blow up on them and pull out your phone to show them what the dictionary and your meaning of that word is?!! You are pretty brave behind a keyboard. Seriously. Get over it. You all need to go with people's intentions on the use of the word, not your all of the sudden literal meaning that you think everyone needs to strictly adhere to. It's rather embarrassing to read.

Geez, the white knights on this thread are unbelievable. No, I don't tend to correct people in person. It's not really my style, though I'd be happy to discuss it with anyone, in person or otherwise. But yes, in a discussion on the internet where someone either truly doesn't know OR purposefully misuses words just to be funny or make a point or piss people off (I'm not always sure what the intent is but it tends to be one of the three), I don't mind bringing it up. It's all about learning how to be a better person. Why wouldn't you want to be more conscious of the way you're speaking and how it can be offensive to people who are different than you?
I'm personally more embarrassed for the people on this thread who are going to bury their heads in the sand and choose to knowingly use incorrect words that make them look ignorant (at best) or uncaring and intolerant (at worst). I will never be embarrassed for understanding the implications of the words I say and trying to educate other people on why what comes out of their mouths matter.

edited for clarity

MamaFroFro · July 2015

SuperTrooper2 said:
You guys are so childish arguing about what words mean! If you were having a verbal conversation with an aqaintence or stranger at the grocery store and they said the word "gender" are you going to blow up on them and pull out your phone to show them what the dictionary and your meaning of that word is?!! You are pretty brave behind a keyboard. Seriously. Get over it. You all need to go with people's intentions on the use of the word, not your all of the sudden literal meaning that you think everyone needs to strictly adhere to. It's rather embarrassing to read.

Are you serious?! No one was arguing about anything until hosea214 jumps into the thread on page 2 just to call names and point out she is going to purposely use the incorrect word. And you jumping on to defend that?! Now that's what I see as embarrassing. Prior to her comment, the discussion was dead.

potofgolden · July 2015

So over the political correctness.
Gender Reveal/Sex Reveal who the F cares. Everyone knows what is being talked about.

SuperTrooper2 · July 2015

It is more than this thread. It's is all over this website. It doesn't make someone ignorant or uneducated to use the word "gender." Take it for what it is (someone wanting to talk about the gender/sex of their baby) and nothing else.

I think we all know humans can grow up and associate with whatever gender they need or want to.

It's no ones place to go police every thread where someone uses that word. And when hosea214 comes in to say she's going to purposely use it because of the way u guys are reacting...is funny. And the comments that followed are examples of why this board is so unfriendly.

SuperTrooper2 · July 2015

HBirdie:
Ignorant...uncaring....intolerant....implicated by using a word?! Implicate what?! Talk about jumping to conclusions.

Do you correct someone when they say they need a Kleenex, Band-aid or Qtip? Boy you better because unless they are asking for that specific brand of product, I wouldn't get it for them. I mean why would you give them a tissue, bandage, or cotton swab...they couldn't have possibly meant the same thing.

HBirdie · July 2015

**Removed for TOU violation**

ebunty126 · July 2015

I'm interested in knowing if the ladies who feel so strongly about the difference in gender and sex are going to practice what they preach when their baby is born. If you truly think that the sex of your baby has nothing to do with the gender, how do you plan on raising your baby before it can express the "gender". If you truly felt so passionately about the difference between the two words then I hope you wouldn't dare buy any thing pink for your baby that is deptermined to have the "sex" of a girl. If so, your in the same boat as the rest of us interchanging sex and gender. Yes, some people grow up and indentiy with a different gender, but when talking about babies I think it is completely ok to interchange the words before the baby identifies as anything.

VitaLuna · July 2015

You know, I'm a pretty snarky person, but when I see people say they don't see why sex/gender matters or plain old don't care, it really makes me sad. Sure, those words used to be equals, and most people intend no harm when they interchange them... But that's what EDUCATION is about.

Why do we have to just sit back and say nothing because "that's the way it's always been"? Why can't we slowly start living in a different, more tolerant, more inclusive and respectful world? Why do people (like you NotsoSuperTrooper and hosea) get so bent out of shape over it, instead of looking at what you're saying and thinking about the implications on a very marginalized group? Yes, we all know what people mean when they say gender reveal. But if we live our lives with blinders on, we'll continue to live in a world where people are discriminated against, disrespected, marginalized, and where kids and adults are killing themselves over gender identity (and many other things).

THAT IS WHY IT MATTERS.

So you can be pissy all you want, but I, for one, will try to continue to help educate others, because at the end of the day, you're either part of the problem, or you're part of the solution.

VitaLuna · July 2015

And no, I'm not hiding behind a computer screen. I'd gladly have this conversation with you or anyone else in person. Why? Because IT MATTERS.

minivanmafia · July 2015

VitaLuna said:
You know, I'm a pretty snarky person, but when I see people say they don't see why sex/gender matters or plain old don't care, it really makes me sad. Sure, those words used to be equals, and most people intend no harm when they interchange them... But that's what EDUCATION is about.

Why do we have to just sit back and say nothing because "that's the way it's always been"? Why can't we slowly start living in a different, more tolerant, more inclusive and respectful world? Why do people (like you NotsoSuperTrooper and hosea) get so bent out of shape over it, instead of looking at what you're saying and thinking about the implications on a very marginalized group? Yes, we all know what people mean when they say gender reveal. But if we live our lives with blinders on, we'll continue to live in a world where people are discriminated against, disrespected, marginalized, and where kids and adults are killing themselves over gender identity (and many other things).

THAT IS WHY IT MATTERS.

So you can be pissy all you want, but I, for one, will try to continue to help educate others, because at the end of the day, you're either part of the problem, or you're part of the solution.

If I wasn't mobile I would post a slow clap gif. Nicely said.

HBirdie · July 2015

ebunty126 said:

I'm interested in knowing if the ladies who feel so strongly about the difference in gender and sex are going to practice what they preach when their baby is born. If you truly think that the sex of your baby has nothing to do with the gender, how do you plan on raising your baby before it can express the "gender". If you truly felt so passionately about the difference between the two words then I hope you wouldn't dare buy any thing pink for your baby that is deptermined to have the "sex" of a girl. If so, your in the same boat as the rest of us interchanging sex and gender. Yes, some people grow up and indentiy with a different gender, but when talking about babies I think it is completely ok to interchange the words before the baby identifies as anything.

I have a son. He's 21 months. Right now we just let him be who he wants and like what he likes. He plays with trains and cars and dolls and stuffed animals and toy dishes and the toy mop and broom, he reads books, and he goes on hikes and to the park and wherever else. He wears blue diapers and pink diapers and green shirts and purple shirts and mint shorts and teal pajamas... you get my drift. I would say about 95% of his wardrobe would look great on a girl (he has a few "Handsome" shirts, which is why it's not 100%). In other words, we treat him like a kid. Blue doesn't equal boy, girl doesn't equal pink. This is just another misconception that muddies the whole debate. You (and a lot of people) are assigning gender qualities to things that are inherently for anyone.

Yes, we call our son "him" and "he" when we refer to him, and we assume, for now, that his sex and gender identity will match. If that changes in the future, we fully intend to support him in whatever way we can. Being aware of the differences between sex and gender and the implications of confusing them doesn't mean every baby needs to be genderless until they're old enough to say otherwise.

ETA: My parenting would be almost identical to what it is now if I had a daughter and not a son.

wassuphoes · July 2015

ebunty126 said:
I'm interested in knowing if the ladies who feel so strongly about the difference in gender and sex are going to practice what they preach when their baby is born. If you truly think that the sex of your baby has nothing to do with the gender, how do you plan on raising your baby before it can express the "gender". If you truly felt so passionately about the difference between the two words then I hope you wouldn't dare buy any thing pink for your baby that is deptermined to have the "sex" of a girl. If so, your in the same boat as the rest of us interchanging sex and gender. Yes, some people grow up and indentiy with a different gender, but when talking about babies I think it is completely ok to interchange the words before the baby identifies as anything.

Actually, pink originally was considered masculine. Because it is a lighter form of red, and red in western culture is associated with blood and war.

Similarly, blue was originally a feminine color because of its depiction with the Virgin Mary.

It is (practically) impossible to raise a child as "genderless". However if I have a son and he wants to wear dresses and play tea party, I wouldn't stifle him. Just as I wouldn't stifle a daughter who shows an interest in traditionally masculine activities or force her to wear a dress if she doesn't like them.

HBirdie · July 2015

This might be helpful:

ebunty126 · July 2015

I am not suggesting raising a child "gender less" or not letting your child be who they want to be, I am simplying putting another thought on the table for those who feel very strongly about people saying "gender". I commend those of you who choose to let your child express themselves how every they see fit, but I feel some people on here are arguing for the point that gender and sex are two different things, but act differently in their actions. I see both side of the argument but just urge those to practice what they preach or your just adding to the ignorance that you so strongly disagree with.

HBirdie · July 2015

ebunty126 said:

I am not suggesting raising a child "gender less" or not letting your child be who they want to be, I am simplying putting another thought on the table for those who feel very strongly about people saying "gender". I commend those of you who choose to let your child express themselves how every they see fit, but I feel some people on here are arguing for the point that gender and sex are two different things, but act differently in their actions. I see both side of the argument but just urge those to practice what they preach or your just adding to the ignorance that you so strongly disagree with.

What do you recommend, then? I'm trying to understand how any of us are not practicing what we preach.

Not being snarky, I truly want to know what ideal parenting looks like when you're aware of the issue.

wassuphoes · July 2015

ebunty126 said:

I am not suggesting raising a child "gender less" or not letting your child be who they want to be, I am simplying putting another thought on the table for those who feel very strongly about people saying "gender". I commend those of you who choose to let your child express themselves how every they see fit, but I feel some people on here are arguing for the point that gender and sex are two different things, but act differently in their actions. I see both side of the argument but just urge those to practice what they preach or your just adding to the ignorance that you so strongly disagree with.

Uh. No, you're just projecting.

SuperTrooper2 · July 2015

VitaLuna said:
Why do people (like you NotsoSuperTrooper and hosea)

Oh no now my feelings are hurt. Super Troopers is a movie. But I'll go get a Kleenex and BandAid for my wounds.

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