Vaccination Debate

jennypolkadots · September 2014

Late to the party but I've really liked reading through this "debate". I am pretty darn crunchy... no red meat, love me some yoga, and we use mostly herbal remedies instead of medicine in our house. I make my own soaps, cleaning stuff, etc. because I am weary about chemicals. We are planning a natural birth, and one of my midwives is pretty against vaccines. When I went into researching I definitely had a bias against vaccines that was just based in my really limited knowledge of how immunology works.

With that said, I have read a lot about it and our kids will all be fully vaccinated. We actually just met with a great pediatrician last week and discussed this. We will go with the CDC schedule unless we notice any adverse reactions other than the normal sore arm and crankiness. If we see a reaction (rare) we will just have extra office visits and space them out a bit. Unless there is something more like seizures in which case we would have to rely on herd immunity. We are doing an out of hospital birth so our kiddo will start the Hep B at the first pediatric visit within a week or two after birth. We will definitely be doing the Vitamin K shot, but will decline the eye drops (not because they are harmful but because we don't have chlamydia or gonorrhea.) I won't be getting the flu vaccine because my personal risk is very low. I work in an office with 5 other people and have my own bathroom and office. Dh and I stay home most of the time and rarely have company, so I am lower risk than others and will just watch for signs of flu and be proactive in the winter. It take the flu seriously but also know that that the effectiveness of the vaccine is not so great since it has to be based on last years bug and predictions.

From reading what I have and avoiding hog wash articles with no scientific backing, I have learned that immunizations help the immune system not impair it. The CDC schedule is what we know works and has been tested. Being immunized is a social responsibility because there are rare cases where children can not be immunized. The reason we give "so many vaccines to such young babies" is because babies are at risk and the vaccines are meant to be timed for increased effectiveness at reaching immunity.

You can not compare childhood vaccines to that of dogs or other animals. My dogs are on a very limited vaccine schedule, but they stay at my house and do not go around to every grocery store and playground hugging/sneezing/touching/etc. thousands of people and things a year that could put someone else at risk. Unless your plan is to keep your kid at home like your dog, please immunize.

foxslaw · September 2014

Not once have we cited "the gov't", but only referred the doctors who were specifically trained in this specialty? The ones who have multiple degrees and have done the research beyond just reading an insert. Who have sacrificed their personal lives and dedicated their work to making the world a healthier, safer place. Being aware of side effects is great, and I'm not trying to take that away from you, but you shouldn't let one small possibility rule your decision. It's the health of not only your child, but other children at stake. Besides, the side effects on ALL oral medicine is scary, even Advil. @SallyCag‌

jennypolkadots · September 2014

@anothersun - I understand what you are saying and I wish the world could be a safe place for your niece. Last year's flu vaccine was about 60% effective according to the CDC. That is not very good and it is due to the fact that the vaccine has to be reformulated each year and they never know just what strains will hit the hardest and where. If it were mandatory for all people to get the flu vaccine, it likely wouldn't make the world that much safer for your niece with a very compromised immune system. There are also virtually thousands of other viruses that cause flu-like symptoms that are not covered by flu vaccines. People should take more personal responsibility with washing their hands, covering their mouths, and not going out when they are sick. Public places or stores should also have higher cleanliness standards. How often do you think walgreens disinfects their cold medicine isle? Probably not too often.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pastseasons/1314season.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

Dani_Love · September 2014

weansworld09 said:

Ducktale said:

My last comment was not even trying to argue, I genuinely want to know why people are choosing the delayed schedule. At this point I'm assuming there's not valid reason just opinion like Cornball said.

The only 2 vaccines I do on a delayed schedule are the 1st hep b and the varicella. My reasoning:

I don't see Hepatitis B as an immediate threat to my newborn. Waiting until he/she is a few weeks old gives them a little bit of time to "live" without putting anything foreign into their bodies.

Most of us had chicken pox as a child and while it is annoying, it is not life threatening. My kids are home with me full time until they start school. When we enrolled them in preschool, we vaccinated them for varicella. Before then, if they were to get it, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

For me, I weighed the risks and benefits to not only my children, but the community around us.
Are we forgetting that exposure to the chicken pox will leave you susceptible to shingles later in life? Your increase of contracting shingles goes up substantially as we age beyond 55+ Rach year. Not sure if you have ever seen someone with a bad case of shingles, but it can cause permanent damage, including loss of vision & permanent nerve damage/nerve pain, which is very difficult to treat. I agree the chicken pox isn't too big of a deal for a young child. However, it is a big deal for older children/young adults who contract the disease & it leaves you at high risk for shingles the remainder of your life.

My 72 year old father has been fighting severe shingles for 3 months now. He has lost tons of weight, cannot take pain meds because of his COPD, and is in a lot of pain. He's been on multiple rounds of antibiotics and ER visits and there is nothing they can do. Shingles are no joke, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

That said, we are pro vaccination. I was staying out of this thread worried it would be overrun with stupid but I am pleasantly surprised! Yay F15! I've never attached a pic before so sorry if this is huge or too small or any of the million things that could go wrong. My biggest anti vax pet peeve "if vaccines work then why are you worried about my un-vaccinated children?"

jennypolkadots · September 2014

To be clear - I am not anti flu vaccine. It's all about personal risk. If you are around a lot of people or just feel better having it you definitely should get it and I don't think it will hurt your baby one bit. I would if my situation were different. Maybe it will even offer immunity to your baby post birth. But the Flu vaccine is much different than vaccines given to babies because you need a new one each year and often times the formulation is not well matched to the strains you come in contact with. You can not reach lifetime flu immunity like you can with polio or measles, and having the flu vaccine will not keep you from getting the many different colds and other viruses rolling around during the winter months.

michelle142 · September 2014

I'm impressed this is still rolling - 10 pages? 15?

I'm still waiting on an answer from @ashleeann22 on the 12 vaccines before they go home.

Irishcurls · September 2014

Can I just say something concerning febrile seizures? I don't say this to necessarily sway someone one way or the other, but just so the information is out there. 1) Febrile seizures (often due to illness and high fever) are actual quite common among small children, and the CDC suggests as many as 5% of children will have at least 1. This is not epilepsy. 2) Febrile seizures most often occur in the same time frame that the MMR vaccine occurs. This is not a causative relationship necessarily. 3) While very scary to witness, a seizure itself is not damaging to the brain, and children recover very quickly from them.

ETA: Ironically, diseases like measles, mumps, and rubella could cause more febrile seizures to occur, due to an inability to control a high fever.

Ducktale · September 2014

michelle142 said:
I'm impressed this is still rolling - 10 pages? 15?

I'm still waiting on an answer from @ashleeann22 on the 12 vaccines before they go home.

I'd be more surprised if a vax debate thread were under 10 pages

daciadanae · September 2014

@SallyCag Straight from the CDC website "For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die'. So, you are concerned about the 1 in 30,000 chance of temporary low platelet count, but not the 1-2 in 1000 chance a child will DIE??

rosieo52 · September 2014

Just saw this...pretty telling!

Sorry if was already posted, I tried to scroll through to double check but I didn't see it

https://mic.com/articles/98330/the-case-for-vaccinating-your-kids-in-one-alarming-chart?utm_source=huffingtonpost.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_facebook

daciadanae · September 2014

Exactly! And I like this little note for those who are "why is it your business?":

"Why is this (outbreak of measles) happening? According to the CDC, the outbreaks have been growing due to unvaccinated people traveling outside the country and bringing the virus back home. The anti-vaccination movement has also been linked to this measles resurgence due to the fact that communities with low rates of immunization are more at risk of a contagious outbreak."

SallyCag · September 2014

The reason I referenced the government is because the CDC is the government. And they are the ones who make the vaccine schedule. Not the doctors.

SallyCag · September 2014

Also, have any of you researched what vaccines manufactured with human fetal cell lines can do to the body? Check out this academic study if you are interest. It's pretty sketchy.

https://www.ms.academicjournals.org/article/article1409245960_Deisher et al.pdf

"Vaccines that have been cultured on or manufactured using the WI-38 fetal cell line such as MeruvaxII®, MMRII®, Varivax®, Havrix® and Pentacel® are additio- nally contaminated with fragments of human endogenous retrovirus HERVK (Victoria et al., 2010). Recent evidence has shown that human endogenous retroviral transcripts are elevated in the brains of patients with schizophrenia
or bipolar disorder (Frank et al., 2005), in peripheral blood mononuclear leucocytes of patients with autism spectrum (Freimanis et al., 2010) as well as associated with several autoimmune diseases (Tai et al., 2008). The strong ecological association between human fetal cell line-manufactured vaccines and autistic disorder change points calls for further investigation of these childhood vaccine contaminants, and for the sake of preserving critical vaccination coverage, even a return to animal- based manufacturing."

foxslaw · September 2014

SallyCag said:
The reason I referenced the government is because the CDC is the government. And they are the ones who make the vaccine schedule. Not the doctors.

You are completely right. I realized that after I posted my response. However, I do feel like they staff the CDC with qualified individuals who know what they are talking about.

foxslaw · September 2014

Also we already did the whole "autism is caused by vaccines" part of the argument. Please just go back a few pages because I don't have the energy to rehash that.

SallyCag · September 2014

@daciadanae‌ I'm honestly concerned either way. It would be horrible if my child got measles and died. But it's not just the odds of them dying... You have to consider what the odds of them getting measles in the first place is, because that significantly reduces the odds of death in the big picture. It definitely would be less than 1 in 30,000. Probably less than 1 in a million. And yes, that's due to herd immunity. Maybe if the vaccine manufacturers offered more than one combined vaccine (MMRII) I would reconsider. But as it stands, they don't.

MommyOfAMiracle · September 2014

I originally had no opinion regarding this topic because I have no children, yet. It's not something I had ever thought about or even looked into. I, myself get the flu shot every year but that's about the extent of it.

However, after reading through this thread, I can tell you that I am DEFINITELY going to get my child vaccinated. I am swaying more towards the staggered vaccination due to the adverse reaction being easier to pinpoint. Don't flame me...I'm still learning.

I honestly always thought that vaccinating was required for children to go to school or participate in extracurricular sports/ activities?

But just so you womens know, you have all swayed a person to have her first born vaccinated. Great resources backing up your reasons.

Spanx F15!

chickyclg · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@daciadanae‌ I'm honestly concerned either way. It would be horrible if my child got measles and died. But it's not just the odds of them dying... You have to consider what the odds of them getting measles in the first place is, because that significantly reduces the odds of death in the big picture. It definitely would be less than 1 in 30,000. Probably less than 1 in a million. And yes, that's due to herd immunity. Maybe if the vaccine manufacturers offered more than one combined vaccine (MMRII) I would reconsider. But as it stands, they don't.

@SallyCag

Just wondering, if your entire city stopped vaccinating would you still feel this way? Thats the problem that I think people are missing, the amount of people becoming Anti-vax is only growing, which is going to do what to heard immunity.

Sahara6971 · September 2014

MommyOfAMiracle said:

I originally had no opinion regarding this topic because I have no children, yet. It's not something I had ever thought about or even looked into. I, myself get the flu shot every year but that's about the extent of it.
However, after reading through this thread, I can tell you that I am DEFINITELY going to get my child vaccinated. I am swaying more towards the staggered vaccination due to the adverse reaction being easier to pinpoint. Don't flame me...I'm still learning.
I honestly always thought that vaccinating was required for children to go to school or participate in extracurricular sports/ activities?
But just so you womens know, you have all swayed a person to have her first born vaccinated. Great resources backing up your reasons.
Spanx F15!

It is, but there are loopholes. The main one people use as an excuse is religion.

elephantsonpatrol · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@daciadanae‌ I'm honestly concerned either way. It would be horrible if my child got measles and died. But it's not just the odds of them dying... You have to consider what the odds of them getting measles in the first place is, because that significantly reduces the odds of death in the big picture. It definitely would be less than 1 in 30,000. Probably less than 1 in a million. And yes, that's due to herd immunity. Maybe if the vaccine manufacturers offered more than one combined vaccine (MMRII) I would reconsider. But as it stands, they don't.

So those vaccines are too risky for your kids but you want the rest of us to vaccinate so your kids are protected by herd immunity?

PikoPiko · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@daciadanae‌ I'm honestly concerned either way. It would be horrible if my child got measles and died. But it's not just the odds of them dying... You have to consider what the odds of them getting measles in the first place is, because that significantly reduces the odds of death in the big picture. It definitely would be less than 1 in 30,000. Probably less than 1 in a million. And yes, that's due to herd immunity. Maybe if the vaccine manufacturers offered more than one combined vaccine (MMRII) I would reconsider. But as it stands, they don't.

Funny you should mention herd immunity. So you're saying you're taking advantage of the good folks who vaccinate their kids without chipping in. Tongue in cheek.

Just sayin'

SallyCag · September 2014

@elephantsonpatrol‌ that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't care if anyone vaccinated or not. I believe it's every families choice. I don't judge if you don't vaccinate. I'm simply saying this: I'm not going to accept the risks simply to contribute to herd immunity. And i wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

elephantsonpatrol · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@elephantsonpatrol‌ that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't care if anyone vaccinated or not. I believe it's every families choice. I don't judge if you don't vaccinate. I'm simply saying this: I'm not going to accept the risks simply to contribute to herd immunity. And i wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

But you are depending on that herd immunity that you refuse to contribute to.

chickyclg · September 2014

@SallyCag how protected do you feel knowing that herd immunity is only decreasing do to the increase of anti-vaxers?

SallyCag · September 2014

@chickyclg‌ I would probably feel differently about it if I lived somewhere where these diseases were rampant. I would probably vaccinate against them all. But where I live, in 2014, they aren't rampant. I realize this probably does make me somewhat selfish, but only because I'm doing what I think is best for my child. I'm not willing to go against what I think is best for him just for the sake of others. I'm Sorry, but I will always put him first.

SallyCag · September 2014

foxslaw said:
Also we already did the whole "autism is caused by vaccines" part of the argument. Please just go back a few pages because I don't have the energy to rehash that.

@foxslaw‌ oh we did, did we? Which page is that on?

SallyCag · September 2014

And yes, I am taking advantage of herd immunity. I'm a horrible person.

chickyclg · September 2014

@SallyCag I guess we can clearly agree to disagree, personally I feel that it is irresponsible, but that is also because my cousin had leukemia and she was someone who truly needed herd immunity. Even after her passing our family has been very vocal about the importance of vaccinations. I guess another way to look at it is how would you feel if you were handed a picture of a child that has passed away or is severely hospitalized that your child infected. I only bring this up because a lot of illnesses you are contagious before becoming symptomatic.

SallyCag · September 2014

And here's the deal folks - I am contributing - we did four of the ten vaccines.

foxslaw · September 2014

Discussed autism on page 4,6 & 7

jennjilljo · September 2014

SallyCag said:
And here's the deal folks - I am contributing - we did four of the ten vaccines.

I will accept the term contribution for that because of the words definition but that's barely a contribution. Great, there are 4 illnesses that my child is less likely to pick up from yours should they ever meet. Let's not worry about the other 6 because you don't think my child or anyone else's need to be protected from them through your herd immunity contribution. That's like putting a candle on the cake and saying you contributed to the party.

foxslaw · September 2014

I just feel that the "I would rather chance my child getting a horrible disease than chance them getting autism" is gross of people.

lizzybean · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@chickyclg‌ I would probably feel differently about it if I lived somewhere where these diseases were rampant. I would probably vaccinate against them all. But where I live, in 2014, they aren't rampant. I realize this probably does make me somewhat selfish, but only because I'm doing what I think is best for my child. I'm not willing to go against what I think is best for him just for the sake of others. I'm Sorry, but I will always put him first.

Eh, if your child gets polio, hepatitis, the measles, you may re-think your whole "doing what is best for my child" thing. Your arguments are really not holding any weight for me...

SallyCag · September 2014

All you guys kept saying is "provide some real sources" "show us some academic research" and when one of us "anti-vaxers" do, none of you will even read or consider it. Real open minded people.

PikoPiko · September 2014

I live in one of the states that has a high rate for infectious diseases due to increasing number of non vaccinated kids. Was my state always high risk? No, it took us only months to become high risk. Patient zero was a foreigner and spread to a group of unvaccinated kids with parents that said exactly what you did with also with their own version of statistics. A close friend of mine is an infectious disease expert in my state, he had to treat these kids and it was not a fun job. We never knew we had so many holes in the herd immunity until one patient brought it in. How does that 1 in a million chance working out for my state? The disease could become "rampant" as defined by the government before you know it.

foxslaw · September 2014

But seriously, can we talk about the strain? Such a good show.

SallyCag · September 2014

@lizzybean‌ That is fair enough. And if your child gets encephalopathy or Guillain Barre Syndrome from a vaccine, maybe you'd rethink what was best for yours.

wintersong139 · September 2014

I would just like to say, although this debate is about vaccines for babies, thanks for reminding me to ask my midwife when I should get my PDaP (sp?) vaccine.

ETA: Seriously, I have been thinking about it all day trying to figure out what I was going to ask but forgot.

SallyCag · September 2014

@wintersong139‌ it's TDap (tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis)

wintersong139 · September 2014

SallyCag said:

@wintersong139‌ it's TDap (tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis)

LOL, it has been a long week already. :-)

Want a personalized experience?

Vaccination Debate

Re: Vaccination Debate

Choose Another Board

Search Boards