Vaccination Debate

Irishcurls

SallyCag said:

Vaccines are not 100% safe. All you have to do us google "vaccine inserts" to see the actual manufacturers insert that details the dozens of potential side effects each one can cause. There are risks both ways. There are risks if you don't vaccinate and there are risks if you do. It is each parents responsibility to choose which potential outcomes they can live with. Just because someone chooses not to vaccinate does not mean they are stupid, uninformed, or selfish. I researched for months and decided to give my son the DTAP, HIB, pneumococcal, and polio vaccines, but chose to omit the MMR, Hep B, Hep A, Flu, and Varicella vaccines.

What are your sources?

schnitz9

@sallycag just googled them.  Oh course there are "potential" side effects.  Everything has them.  Have you ever read the side effects on a bottle of Tylenol? They are required to put them there by law.  All prescriptions have possible side effect also some include death.  Haven't you read the bottles or seen the billions of commercials.  Why should this be different? 

aggiebug

@SallyCag‌ you are right they aren't 100% safe but unless you have a compromised immune system or known allergy the risk of a serious side effect of a vaccine is much lower than the risks associated with the diseases they protect against.

Have you read the drug insert of your hormonal BCP? Or pain relievers? Or almost any other medications you put in your body?


You are more likely to have a stroke from BCP, liver damage from your pain relievers than you are a serious reaction to a vaccine.

Not to mention you are more likely to get struck by lightening. Twice.

Because of the nature of vaccines, the way they are made and regulated they are one of the safest drugs on the market.

elephantsonpatrol

SallyCag said:

 It is each parents responsibility to choose which potential outcomes they can live with. Just because someone chooses not to vaccinate does not mean they are stupid, uninformed, or selfish.

I beg to differ:

Notice the little old lady dying. When you choose not to vaccinate you put everyone at risk. It is selfish.

aggiebug

Oh and I would love to hear your excuses for not giving those vaccinations @SallyCag‌

I am waiting.

foxslaw

I am pretty darn sure you would feel so guilty if you were not to vaccinate & your child happened to contract one of those awful diseases. Which are becoming more and more prevalent due to the fewer and fewer who vaccinate. I'm not saying that it *will* happen, but I know I would feel guilty if I didn't vaccinate my child & they caught a disease that is entirely preventable.

ltut

Why can't anyone respect a decision that is different from theirs or the majority? Its just sad. You aren't going to be having play dates with these ladies, so I doubt their kids will be in contact with yours. What's the big deal? Do you think you are going to change their minds with this thread? There is a lot of info out there for vaccines and against. Someone asked me for my research against the flu vaccine, and I still haven't been on my computer. I will try to get around to it today. But please... can people have different opinions? Doesn't mean they're right, but does mean you are either. Make an informed decision for YOUR family.

schnitz9

@Itut i think the issue here is people having an opinion and people having an educated opinion.  There's a huge difference.  The pro-vax people here have posted research, vax schedules, articles that back up their opinions.  You and the ones who dis-agree have yet to post anything of factual basis to back up your opinion.  It's just like I said a regular plain old opinion and not an educated one.  I'm sure once you get to your computer and post your facts and backed up research maybe we'll be a bit more respectful.  But until them I'm sorry I can't.

boxerrrmama85

I'M STILL WAITING FOR ANY SCHOLARLY RESEARCH COMING FROM THE ANTI-VAXXERS! I just mentally can't do this anymore! Bring some fucking FACTS AND RESEARCH to the table-- research does not equal blogs or one person's opinion!

jennjilljo

It really bothers me that we've had several members voice that they or their children are unable to get certain vaccines or do not build an immunity when they do recieve certain vaccines and people are still saying "it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect me". Don't be an asshole! It affects them. The overpriced, first world choice to dismiss a vaccine that 3rd world countries have been praying for does affect others. The others just expressed their vulnerability over a public forum and yet people still don't care? That's wrong and selfish. Your lackadaisical attitude could cost them their health or their life over not wanting to get a rash, swelling and cough from a freaking shot. Yes, your discomfort is SO much more important than their life.

mrsclark731

I found this while browsing reddit this morning, I thought it was applicable to our discussion here:

Ducktale

In conclusion: 1) your choice to not vaccinate your children DOES affect others and puts others lives at risk 2) anti-vaxxers have been unable to cite any credible research backing up their wildly misinformed claims 3) anti-vaxxers have yet to say what they are specifically afraid of from vaccinations 4) pro-vaxxers have been able to produce credible scientific evidence, making the other side sound incredibly uneducated 5) vaccines have been shown over and over again to outweigh any risks for the vast majority of the populations (and they don't cause autism) 6) vaccinate your kids

Ducktale

What now phones don't do paragraphs either?

HerHighness

ltut

Yep, I get it. Like I said, my kids are mostly vaccinated. I don't even think I am the one you guys are attacking. What bothers me is that no one else is allowed to think anything different.

HerHighness

They are allowed to think differently but when they have no facts to support themselves its hard to take them seriously.

Sahara6971

ltut said:

Yep, I get it. Like I said, my kids are mostly vaccinated. I don't even think I am the one you guys are attacking. What bothers me is that no one else is allowed to think anything different.

I think if it were something that didn't affect everyone else in such a MAJOR way, people would feel less passionate about it. If you are one of those people who can't be vaccinated and could die because of other people's ignorance,  of course you are going to feel strongly about the matter.

thegoodpotato

ltut said:

Yep, I get it. Like I said, my kids are mostly vaccinated. I don't even think I am the one you guys are attacking. What bothers me is that no one else is allowed to think anything different.

No, people ARE allowed to think differently. Just not when they're making uneducated medical decisions that affect the community as a whole.

Other than that, I'm a-ok with a parent choosing to raise their kid however they like (as long as it's not in an abusive way).

triplej9

@ltut I don't understand how you are so nonchalant about not vaccinating when you are about to bring an infant into this world who won't be fully protected from these diseases. 

I am all for people having differing opinions, but when someone's ignorance affects the well being of my baby, you better believe that I am going to do my damnedest to knock some sense into these people.

delaneykai

Wow, I was avoiding this thread and was totally impressed there wasn't really any debate until I was several pages in!  I am totally for vaccinating.  We ALL rely on herd immunity.  Vaccines aren't 100% effective, so we do rely on all/most children receiving them to protect our entire community.  That said, I do understand why some people choose a *delayed* schedule for certain vaccines.  Personally, we stuck to our doctor's vaccination schedule, with the exception of MMR.  Our pediatrician changed vaccination schedules and it was somehow overlooked that my daughter hadn't received her MMR.  Luckily, I noticed it and they were able to give it to her at 15 months, so a little delayed, but still within the CDC guidelines.  

Ducktale

ltut said:

Yep, I get it. Like I said, my kids are mostly vaccinated. I don't even think I am the one you guys are attacking. What bothers me is that no one else is allowed to think anything different.

@ltut there are many things in life that people are not allowed to have differing opinions on and are not up for debate and uniformly accepted as clearly right vs wrong. We can all agree you should feed your children. We all agree children should be provided with an education. All small children should be in car seats. All children should receive vaccinations.

There are something's people should all agree on. Vaccines are one of them.

toney0731

I am more against the vaccination schedule than I am against vaccination as a whole. My personal opinion is that it is too much too soon. I do vaccinate my children, however I space out their vaccinations.

Ducktale

sugahcookie01 said:

toney0731 said:

I am more against the vaccination schedule than I am against vaccination as a whole. My personal opinion is that it is too much too soon. I do vaccinate my children, however I space out their vaccinations.

I think that's fine, as long as you still fall within the basic CDC guidelines. You're still ultimately doing what needs to get done.
___________________________
But I still want to know why!!!!!!!!!!

What valid research is there in support if this and what is the fear of doing it on the recommended schedule?

SOMEONE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

schnitz9

I'M STILL WAITING FOR THE RESEARCH PEOPLE!!!! Where are their computers? In a black hole!

Ducktale

My last comment was not even trying to argue, I genuinely want to know why people are choosing the delayed schedule.

At this point I'm assuming there's not valid reason just opinion like Cornball said.

Sahara6971

Ducktale said:

My last comment was not even trying to argue, I genuinely want to know why people are choosing the delayed schedule. At this point I'm assuming there's not valid reason just opinion like Cornball said.

The only 2 vaccines I do on a delayed schedule are the 1st hep b and the varicella. My reasoning:

I don't see Hepatitis B as an immediate threat to my newborn. Waiting until he/she is a few weeks old gives them a little bit of time to "live" without putting anything foreign into their bodies.

Most of us had chicken pox as a child and while it is annoying, it is not life threatening. My kids are home with me full time until they start school. When we enrolled them in preschool, we vaccinated them for varicella. Before then, if they were to get it, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

For me, I weighed the risks and benefits to not only my children, but the community around us.

jennjilljo

@Ducktale‌ this is the only science based article I found after a quick search on my phone about delayed vaccination and it simply says that is not a good idea. It's a great read for anti-vaxxers because I feel it highlights pretty much everything we've said even about chicken pox and mumps.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-talk-about-vaccination/?page=1

jaztastic

I thought we caught this thread on pages 1 & 2... why are we at 9 pages? lol 

jaztastic

ChickenOnSunday said:

jaztastic said:

I thought we caught this thread on pages 1 & 2... why are we at 9 pages? lol 

Where have you been?

I thought "1" poster might be your AE stirring pot.

I was really sick after the football game on Sunday. So yesterday I was just home in bed all day, resting and recouping. Today Ive got a boatload of work to do. Shit it the fan in the office, and I nor my boss was in the office to handle it. UGH

EdenAurora

A valid reason for staggered, delayed vaccination is to be able to isolate any adverse reactions to specific a vaccine. My oldest had a severe reaction to Prevnar that almost resulted in her being hospitalized for respiratory distress. Because it was the only vaccination she had received that visit we knew it was the cause. Her doctor then determined it was best to skip future doses of the Prevnar only. Had she had many vaccinations that day it would have been much more difficult to isolate.

weansworld09

Sahara6971 said:

Ducktale said:

My last comment was not even trying to argue, I genuinely want to know why people are choosing the delayed schedule.

At this point I'm assuming there's not valid reason just opinion like Cornball said.

The only 2 vaccines I do on a delayed schedule are the 1st hep b and the varicella. My reasoning:

I don't see Hepatitis B as an immediate threat to my newborn. Waiting until he/she is a few weeks old gives them a little bit of time to "live" without putting anything foreign into their bodies.

Most of us had chicken pox as a child and while it is annoying, it is not life threatening. My kids are home with me full time until they start school. When we enrolled them in preschool, we vaccinated them for varicella. Before then, if they were to get it, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

For me, I weighed the risks and benefits to not only my children, but the community around us.

Are we forgetting that exposure to the chicken pox will leave you susceptible to shingles later in life? Your increase of contracting shingles goes up substantially as we age beyond 55+ Rach year. Not sure if you have ever seen someone with a bad case of shingles, but it can cause permanent damage, including loss of vision & permanent nerve damage/nerve pain, which is very difficult to treat.
I agree the chicken pox isn't too big of a deal for a young child. However, it is a big deal for older children/young adults who contract the disease & it leaves you at high risk for shingles the remainder of your life.

foxslaw

Argh.

*Breaking news update*
I think my boyfriend wants to vaccinate on a delayed schedule. HOWEVER I think he's also too scared of me right now to voice that opinion. Haha. I plan on asking my pediatrician what he feels, but I personally don't see a reason to delay. I hope this doesn't turn into a huge argument. Blah

Sahara6971

weansworld09 said:

Ducktale said:

My last comment was not even trying to argue, I genuinely want to know why people are choosing the delayed schedule. At this point I'm assuming there's not valid reason just opinion like Cornball said.

The only 2 vaccines I do on a delayed schedule are the 1st hep b and the varicella. My reasoning:

I don't see Hepatitis B as an immediate threat to my newborn. Waiting until he/she is a few weeks old gives them a little bit of time to "live" without putting anything foreign into their bodies.

Most of us had chicken pox as a child and while it is annoying, it is not life threatening. My kids are home with me full time until they start school. When we enrolled them in preschool, we vaccinated them for varicella. Before then, if they were to get it, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

For me, I weighed the risks and benefits to not only my children, but the community around us.

Are we forgetting that exposure to the chicken pox will leave you susceptible to shingles later in life? Your increase of contracting shingles goes up substantially as we age beyond 55+ Rach year. Not sure if you have ever seen someone with a bad case of shingles, but it can cause permanent damage, including loss of vision & permanent nerve damage/nerve pain, which is very difficult to treat. I agree the chicken pox isn't too big of a deal for a young child. However, it is a big deal for older children/young adults who contract the disease & it leaves you at high risk for shingles the remainder of your life.

What I understood (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) is that the varicella vaccine is live, so they don't really know if it will actually protect you from contracting shingles later in life. Also, no one really knows how long the immunity from chicken pox lasts with the vaccine.

ETA: And I did vaccinate my kids for it, just not until they went to school.

PikoPiko

@weansworld09 - You don't "contract" Shingles, the virus lies dormant in your body from chicken pox.  It strikes when you're weak.

I've had it at the ripe age of 27.  Hurt like a mf.

weansworld09

PikoPiko said:

@weansworld09 - You don't "contract" Shingles, the virus lies dormant in your body from chicken pox.  It strikes when you're weak.

I've had it at the ripe age of 27.  Hurt like a mf.

I believe I misspoke, bc this is what I was trying to state, but obviously came out wrong. Sorry for the confusion, just waking up.

jennjilljo

PikoPiko said:

@weansworld09 - You don't "contract" Shingles, the virus lies dormant in your body from chicken pox.  It strikes when you're weak.

I've had it at the ripe age of 27.  Hurt like a mf.

I had shingles at 13. My immune system was compromised by a bronchial infection, a sinus infection and strep all at the same time. I know that sounds impossible and I sound full of it but my parents are both smokers, they smoked inside the house and cars, it was late fall and I'm an asthmatic with allergies.

AnotherSun

This just showed up in my facebook feed. 

https://mic.com/articles/98330/the-case-for-vaccinating-your-kids-in-one-alarming-chart?utm_source=huffingtonpost.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_facebook

My four year old niece has leukemia. She doesn't leave the house when she isn't in the hospital. For those people who talk about only getting the "important" vaccines and skip the flu shot, Grace doesn't go to the park or the grocery store or anywhere else where you kid might sneeze on her and send her back to the hospital. Flu for your kid means a day sick watching movies, for her it means being hooked to an IV, getting blood transfusions and being away from home for a minimum of four days each time.

foxslaw

musicgirl524 said:

foxslaw said:

Argh.

*Breaking news update*
I think my boyfriend wants to vaccinate on a delayed schedule. HOWEVER I think he's also too scared of me right now to voice that opinion. Haha. I plan on asking my pediatrician what he feels, but I personally don't see a reason to delay. I hope this doesn't turn into a huge argument. Blah

Tell him you will refuse to even consider discussing it until he takes down that monstrosity of a couch that he and his brother built.

****quote fail****
That's hilarious. I actually laughed out loud.
Oh my god, that is literally my response to everything. Not to bring my unrelated drama on this thread, but it's become a pretty big issue between us.

Ducktale

The desire to isolate vaccines is the first valid reason I've heard.

Other than that, when people say they want to wait to give vaccines until their child's immune system is more mature...is this just a thought you have or is there actual data showing it's better to wait?

SallyCag

https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

There is a link to the MMR vaccine insert. Just look at the "warnings", "precautions", and "adverse reactions" sections. I hope this counts as an actual source for you folks. I didn't base my research off of articles. I simply researched the actual inserts from the vaccine companies and decided which risks were low enough for my child.

I chose to do the DTap because of the high risk of catching whooping caugh as an infant and the risks associated.

I chose to do polio because it's a time tested vaccine with very little side effects. Same with the Hib and PCV13. I felt that with those vaccines, the illness would be far worse than any risk of side effect.

I chose NOT to vaccine against rotavirus because of the risk of Intussusception associated with the vaccine. (It's small, but a risk that requires surgery in a lot of instances)

https://www.cdc.gov/features/rotavirus/

I chose against HepB because it's unnecessary to vaccinate against something that is blood born at such a young age, when the family members don't carry that desease.

I chose to delay the MMR vaccine because the side effects can be so much more severe. Undecided whether I will just postpone or omit completely. And I realize, being pregnant, the risks that are associated if my toddler contracts rubella to my unborn child. Here are some of the moderate and severe side effects of the MMR vaccine from the CDC's web page -

Moderate Problems
Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)
Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage
These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.

I know they are low, but you have to understand that anyone's child can be that 1 in 30,000 or a million.

I chose against VAR and HepA because the symtoms of both of those illnesses would not be life threatening to my child in most cases.

When it's all said and done, I don't want to overload my child's immune system with the unnecessary. It can only handle so much.

Also, to the person that asked me to read the insert in my hormonal BC, I have. And that's why four years ago I threw those pills away, and will NEVER put that junk in my body again. Don't even get me started on that...

And please stop telling me that just because I don't fully vaccinate on the CDC's reccommended schedule that I am ignorant or selfish. I know what is best for my child, not the government.