UO

boogerbearoriginal · September 2014

I need to ask my Mom if she was asked to supply things like tissues and whatnot when we were kids.

And comparing military spending to education spending makes for a clever sounding comparison, but fails to accurately portray how schools are funded. Military spending is federal, whereas a majority of education spending (k-12) is local, which is one of the reasons why there are huge disparities between districts.

Meghan14 · September 2014

RondackHiker said:

I'm not a teacher and I'm laughing at summers off. Laughing. If it didn't have her name in it, I'd share photos of a friend's lesson plans she made in her "summer off".

So true! Plus all the workshops she probably attended.

And as always, I am IN LOVE with @BoogerBearOriginal

MissDemeanor · September 2014

car seat said:

Teachers deserve a good income. I want the people educating my children to be happy and well compensated for the huge part they play in helping them grow into good people.

My province needs to stop educating so many of them, though. It's horrifying that they keep training people for careers that they can never possibly get work in. There are far more people qualified to teach than people who need to be taught. They're working on it, changing the programs, cutting back spots, but it's ridiculous how many out of work teachers there are in Ontario. They were incredibly irresponsible to allow so many people into those programs. I know so many wonderful people who have had to leave here to find work. Brilliant teachers, and completely unable to find work here.

I don't think that's an UO - just a musing along the lines of the topic.

I agree with this. Other programs have a limited number of spots. It's so unfair to educate people who will never get a job in their field, many of my friends are in this position.

The teachers in our province are on strike right now, not expected to be back in classrooms until at least October. So this is THE topic around here right now. I have so many feelings on the subject, and can see points from both sides.

If you're interested try googling BC teachers strike.

boogerbearoriginal · September 2014

car seat said:

boogerbearoriginal said:

I need to ask my Mom if she was asked to supply things like tissues and whatnot when we were kids.

And comparing military spending to education spending makes for a clever sounding comparison, but fails to accurately portray how schools are funded. Military spending is federal, whereas a majority of education spending (k-12) is local, which is one of the reasons why there are huge disparities between districts.

Oh, I know. I get that it's all coming from and going to different places. But I also know that the wealth is poorly distributed. Yes, the federal government is funding military spending, and education is on the municipal level. But the federal government could easily funnel military spending down to the municipal level. That's actually how it's done here all the time. If a province or municipality needs more funds for something that they can't cover themselves, the federal government will often step in and fund projects.

ETA: I'm too tired/busy to have a real conversation about it today, but I do understand the levels of government and how different budgets function and interplay, and who has power over what. I recognize that there isn't one big pool that could be either military or education, but I also understand how some of those billions could not be a factory full of warheads that will never be detonated and instead be a factory full of textbooks to help out schools in lower income areas.

It's just about priorities and politics. And it's really unfortunate.

This is 'Murica, weapons > education.

boogerbearoriginal · September 2014

car seat said:

boogerbearoriginal said:

This is 'Murica, weapons > education.

Haha. Tragic truth.

FWIW my original point was just that it's a lot more complicated than just don't spend so much on the military industrial complex. But sadly, as a whole education and being well-educated have developed a strange negative connotation. There has always been the "nerd" factor, but that has morphed into the general population looking down upon those who are educated and a huge mistrust of "smart" people like doctors and scientists. It's really weird, TBH. You see it in all sorts of groups from anti-vax crowds to Christian right to tea partiers. So it really doesn't surprise me that we, as a group, value education and educators so poorly.

boogerbearoriginal · September 2014

@mamosey - short answer yes. Basically teachers were ~90% male and then in the early 1900s we realized we could make it a woman's job and pay them half as much. That's paraphrasing lol.

hammysmommy · September 2014

TessyMessy said:

Its common knoweldge that teachers do not earn a fair rate in the US and I don't think they should be spending their own money on crayons and tissues for my kids' boogie nose.

I have only one point of contention with this sentence...it's a generalization. I don't think saying that across the board there are no teachers in the US who make a fair wage is an accurate statement. My sister and BIL are both teachers in neighboring school districts, in my state. She's in a poorer one and while she has additional certifications and more years of teaching experience (within the same disctrict) she makes at least $10-15K less than her H. Her H makes in his school year the same (if not more) than I make in my year-round FT job, and I think it's a fair wage. My sister on the other hand, definitely does not.

I still agree that teachers should not have to pay out of pocket (I wanted it to be clear) for the school supplies for students. One year, my sister got a small budget for classroom/teaching supplies/needs from the school, supposedly for special things(extra cool projects)/events/decorations, but she felt the need to use them to buy crayons, markers, glue etc for her class (bc otherwise they wouldn't have them), so she didn't have any of the money to do the extra stuff.

shellbell3845 · September 2014

armfruit said:

RondackHiker said:

I'm not a teacher and I'm laughing at summers off.

Laughing.

If it didn't have her name in it, I'd share photos of a friend's lesson plans she made in her "summer off".

And the Saturdays she will spend grading papers, and the days she came in unpaid to set up her classroom.

And the evenings for open house and conferences and concerts and plays and book fairs and basketball games.

When my h works in the evening/weekend, he gets comp time. I do not. I'm not trying to be a martyr, but I think these are things people don't understand when they complain about a teacher's schedule/pay.

SuzyQq02 · September 2014

hammysmommy said:

TessyMessy said:

Its common knoweldge that teachers do not earn a fair rate in the US and I don't think they should be spending their own money on crayons and tissues for my kids' boogie nose.

I have only one point of contention with this sentence...it's a generalization. I don't think saying that across the board there are no teachers in the US who make a fair wage is an accurate statement. My sister and BIL are both teachers in neighboring school districts, in my state. She's in a poorer one and while she has additional certifications and more years of teaching experience (within the same disctrict) she makes at least $10-15K less than her H. Her H makes in his school year the same (if not more) than I make in my year-round FT job, and I think it's a fair wage. My sister on the other hand, definitely does not.

I still agree that teachers should not have to pay out of pocket (I wanted it to be clear) for the school supplies for students. One year, my sister got a small budget for classroom/teaching supplies/needs from the school, supposedly for special things(extra cool projects)/events/decorations, but she felt the need to use them to buy crayons, markers, glue etc for her class (bc otherwise they wouldn't have them), so she didn't have any of the money to do the extra stuff.

Agreed with all of this. My sister is a teacher in a poor district in NH and doesn't make nearly what she should. Conversely, I have friends that teach in MA that are compensated well (and they would tell you fairly) for what they do. The generalizations are tough.

BUT take it with a grain of salt... I'm a social worker, and when people I know find out how much I make (with nearly a decade of experience and a master's degree plus a professional license), they've been genuinely shocked at how little it is. I didn't get into the field for the money, obviously, but... yeah.

TessyMessy · September 2014

hammysmommy said:

TessyMessy said:

Its common knoweldge that teachers do not earn a fair rate in the US and I don't think they should be spending their own money on crayons and tissues for my kids' boogie nose.

I have only one point of contention with this sentence...it's a generalization. I don't think saying that across the board there are no teachers in the US who make a fair wage is an accurate statement. My sister and BIL are both teachers in neighboring school districts, in my state. She's in a poorer one and while she has additional certifications and more years of teaching experience (within the same disctrict) she makes at least $10-15K less than her H. Her H makes in his school year the same (if not more) than I make in my year-round FT job, and I think it's a fair wage. My sister on the other hand, definitely does not.

I still agree that teachers should not have to pay out of pocket (I wanted it to be clear) for the school supplies for students. One year, my sister got a small budget for classroom/teaching supplies/needs from the school, supposedly for special things(extra cool projects)/events/decorations, but she felt the need to use them to buy crayons, markers, glue etc for her class (bc otherwise they wouldn't have them), so she didn't have any of the money to do the extra stuff.

*Most* teachers are paid unfairly. Yes, I should not generalize and say *all*. But I think this is just semantics at this point. Your sister and BiL should be valued in the same manner. If she has more credentials and experience that should yield a higher wage. Where the school is located (inner city vs. suburb) should not matter.

hammysmommy · September 2014

@SuzyQq02 - my sis and her H (I've forgotten the rules on apostrophes) are in NH too!

boogerbearoriginal · September 2014

UO - I don't have any interest in Frozen and from what I've read it sounds like every other Disney flick.

ramfan05 · September 2014

cattuccino said:
In terms of communal school supplies, I feel like it would make more sense to ask parents to contribute a dollar amount. Then you could pool the money and buy things in bulk or at a discount store and get more for your money.

Still on page one, but we used to do this at my school for all supplies. It was nice to just buy what we needed for the class and not have to worry about storing 5,379 packs of Kleenex, wipes, paper towels, pencils, etc. I just bought things as I needed them. Now we are not allowed to ask for money anymore so I'm back to storing it all. I don't know why we can't anymore, but I'm sure it's political.

SuzyQq02 · September 2014

hammysmommy said:

@SuzyQq02 - my sis and her H (I've forgotten the rules on apostrophes) are in NH too!

And even within a relatively small state like NH, the pay scales are SO different. My sister's intern teacher got a job in Portsmouth (admittedly the biggest city in the state) straight out of graduate school making just a touch less than my sister made with 7 years experience. Because it's all funded at the local level (especially in NH where it's all property taxes vs a state income tax), there's SUCH a wide disparity. It's maddening in a lot of ways!

shellbell3845 · September 2014

broccolisgirl said:

I agree with @KatyBriggs‌ that perhaps high schools need to help lay out career plans with students. Only to the extent that they understand a job path. A bachelors in sociology doesn't automatically qualify you for much. An engineering degree, however, might get you a job before you're even done with college. I'm not against anyone pursuing their interests by any means, but some areas require further education to translate to a job. That's handy info to have going in.

I also don't think everyone needs to go to college. Some people aren't college material. We need better technical education paths in this country. I'm not saying we shouldn't educate kids who are on a technical path. We absolutely should, but we shouldn't push them to go to college. My H has an associate's degree from a technical school. (He earns 6 times what I make teaching PT)

Dexter&11 · September 2014

There are clearly differences between US and UK educational programmes, but as a UK based person who's Mum is a teacher (actually deputy head/principal who teaches full time too) I know my Mum gets 6-7 weeks off for summer. She spends 5-6 weeks of that in Spain on a sun lounger working on her tan. She works for maybe a week of the summer vacation, then moans she does long days when she is working. She works 8-5, and maybe an hour in the evening. I work 9-9 if I'm lucky, get 4 weeks off a year in total and want to beat her whenever she starts moaning lol

keags5496 · September 2014

I have not read everything here but wanted to add a small thought to the teacher debate. My bigger issue is the value on the profession. I don't feel as though I need to paid more...I'm fine with that. My issue is more on the ever increasing demands placed on us with zero time to develop new curriculum around them. For example, I have in the past few years received new science standards, been asked to implement Common Core and prepare kids for a test I have need seen before and have no experience with, incorporated engineering standards into my classes and learns a come tell new Evaluation system full of flaws and computer glitches. I have been given next to no time to plan for all of these changes and I feel ineffective.

If you look at countries that have the highest performing schools, teaching is a very prestigious profession and teachers spend about 50-60% of their work time in direct contact with their students compare to the 80-ish% from US teachers. The rest of their time is spent designing curriculum and planning for individual students. If we want our education system to really improve, that's more the issue.

shellbell3845 · September 2014

DH came home early to help out because of my lil meltdown. LO has been sleeping the whole time, and I really want to nap, but I feel like since he's home because I complained about how much I had to do, I should be doing it.

sdlaura · September 2014

I agree with the PPs who said that we need to have more information out there for students in terms of what kind of job they can expect to get and salary they can expect to make out of college when they're choosing their major/career path, whether it's teaching or law school or whatever. This NYTimes Op Ed from this weekend discussed the issue well:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/is-your-student-prepared-for-life.html

MamaAllison · September 2014

First of all, what @keags5496‌ said.

Secondly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that people feel it is okay to have opinions about other people's salaries. And specifically, hard working teachers. Get a freaking life, or if you have to concern yourself with things of this nature worry about your elected officials. They get summers off too and they are making far more than any teacher and (in my opinion) doing a lot less.

And lastly before I get off my high horse, if you think teaching is such a great gig, then BECOME A TEACHER. Just don't come crying on my shoulder when the realization of what this job entails dawns on you.

sdlaura · September 2014

I just wanted to weigh in that most professional jobs do not offer overtime pay or comp time. I think that's more standard for hourly jobs. I think the difference is that many salaried jobs with no overtime pay have higher compensation to begin with than teaching does.

iwubrory · September 2014

lowea1 said:

@lowea1‌ hate to break it to you. But but I'm in Ohio. And specifically wanted to teach in a Title I school or inner city. Couldn't even find a job there. I'm slightly annoyed that you would imply those are the only places I didn't look. My licensure is still the coaches club...7-12 social studies. ETA- I don't want to teach in charter school either...
@armfruit‌ my generalizations were definitely based on my specific friends/acquaintances from college. I do agree that it's difficult to get teaching jobs here in Ohio, especially if you are in certain areas (you're near Cincinnati, right?) Teaching seems to be one if these jobs where you have to live where the jobs are, rather than get a job where you live, unfortunately. This isn't a perfect example, but I know many firefighters that had to relocate out if ohio to find jobs as well. I'm sorry you couldn't find what you were looking for and definitely didn't mean to imply you refused to work in certain districts! @Mamosey‌ not sure if it was her, but I'm a huge Suze fan!

The spelling of her name drives me bonkers! I'm sure this is a popular opinion.

emar129 · September 2014

@TyrannosaurusLex‌ I work in ECE and it is SO undervalued and underpaid. I even say this coming from social work. It is much worse.

BB0214 · September 2014

I just want to say that I puffy heart teachers! You are not at all paid what you're worth!

TessyMessy · September 2014

adinashoshana said:
Late UO: This board has become boring as hell the past several months. It makes me long for the days of second and third tri (board wise, not physically!)

I recognize that I haven't contributed much lately since going back to work. It just really sucks seeing it slow down.

@adinashoshana‌ Spice things up then! Maybe we need a new sex survey!

courtls22 · September 2014

TyrannosaurusLex said:

If you think teachers are treated poorly, check out your states Early Childhood Educators. It's becomin a more and more competitive job market (ie need a university degree on top of your required college diploma) and yet the pay is minimum wage or just above, 10 vacation days a year, equal amounts of unpaid overtime to teachers, easily comparable expenses coming out of ECE's own pockets....I could go on for DAYS. If education reform matters to you, you need to look at the littles too.

All of this. I LOVE working with little ones but have taken a hiatus and am exploring other work options. Part of me still feels horribly guilty because I know that I'm great with them but I had to put my family first.

iwubrory · September 2014

Did they all leave for FB or simply move on?

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