CIO

alphaphi98 · July 2014

I think the last time we talked about this, some of us felt our babies were too young to cry it out. How about now?

For me, I don't intend to let my 5 month old DS CIO, but sometimes I can't help it. My 22 month old toddler has me tied up with XYZ & DS will cry for a few minutes before I can get to him. When I put him down for naps, I'll let him CIO as he drifts off to sleep. It doesn't last long, maybe a couple minutes since he's tired. It's the same at bedtime. He's learning to self-soothe.

So is anyone letting their LO CIO now or thinking about doing it? And for how long?

dunvilles · July 2014

We put ds down drowsy but awake. He will talk/fuss for a few min and roll over. Then he falls asleep. If he were to really cry I would pat/soothe him as much as possible without picking him up. Works so far for us!

Also, I wouldn't call it cio when your baby cries and you are busy with your toddler.

Eta- this same method did not work for ds1.

p2k2c4bk2p2 · July 2014

I try to let my February baby be if she is talking or maybe even whining and I think she's going to fall asleep. We don't practice cry it out though. Sometimes she cries for a few minutes because I have two kids and I can't always tend both of them at once but that is not CIO.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

I did CIO when LO was about 8 weeks old but never for more than 3-5min and me or DH would come close and put back the pacifier or pat/soothe her a lil and it only took around 30min the whole process for her to be completly asleep. We were trying to get her to sleep on her crib and it worked... 3 days was enough and LO did great.

Its heart breaking to hear the baby cry thats why I could never wait too long to come by and soothe and you know your baby more than anybody, do whats best and what works for baby and you.

versed · July 2014

@Sscarolynedvx‌ - CIO with an 8w old is not cool, and that would be according to pretty much all studies, even the ones that eventually advocate for CIO.

magentawarped · July 2014

Just...wow.

shellbell3845 · July 2014

I let my 5mo LO fuss/talk himself to sleep. Sometimes it escalates to crying, and I respond by rubbing back, shushing, holding his hand, etc. I don't feel comfortable doing anything else. In the motn, I wait to see if his cry is just a brief fuss or if it's something I need to respond to -- I never wait more than a minute, and I can generally tell by the sound if it's just a change of positions or if it's something that requires DH or me. I could never have let my 8wk old CIO, and I don't plan to do much CIO when LO is 6mo.

ShePersisted · July 2014

A minute here or there is not really CIO in my opinion. There have been times I've had no choice but let LO cry to run to the bath or turn off the gas etc. I however have made exception on rare occasions. With mild PPD my temper would soar if I could not manage to get him to sleep. I've walked out, let him cry, counted to 10 to get my emotions back in order and picked him up. To me CIO in that situation was preferred rather than me having a nervous break down.

My point being OP, yes it's hard with a toddler ( and phone ;-)) and baby at times. If it's absolutely necessary on occasion to deal with something else I think a little bit of crying is fine( key words being 'on occasion' ). However I think if you make it a practice it will impact your LO in the long run so please ensure you identify when those rare occasions are. Additionally CIO for sleep training is very different from what you are calling CIO in your post. CIO advocates speak of it mostly in relation to sleep training and not when you have a toddler crisis.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

Oh boy... here we go again...

shellbell3845 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:

I did CIO when LO was about 8 weeks old but never for more than 3-5min and me or DH would come close and put back the pacifier or pat/soothe her a lil and it only took around 30min the whole process for her to be completly asleep. We were trying to get her to sleep on her crib and it worked... 3 days was enough and LO did great. Its heart breaking to hear the baby cry thats why I could never wait too long to come by and soothe and you know your baby more than anybody, do whats best and what works for baby and you.

Only 30 mins? Of crying? With "soothing" every five minutes? I just want to make sure I've got this straight.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

@shellbell3845 not 30 minutes just crying, everyone will take it diferently of course. LO was put down drowsy and when she would wake up and cry when me or DH was out of the room (cleaning, showering/eating) we would wait a lil to see if she was gonna go back to sleep and if not we came and soothe her.

MamaHollywood27 · July 2014

Nope nope nope! Sure as hell NOT at 8 weeks- I have a 6.5 month old, and a toddler (2year old) and a 5year old and and 9 year old and a 13year old AND a cell phone (bragplant?!) and no... Scoop up LO figure out what it is- ask the competent toddler to please sit, wait moment, distract them w a toy, etc.

versed · July 2014

And to OP, no, we won't CIO. I have a 25m- & 6m-old (only to explain that he's newly 2, I usually just say he's 2), and neither has been or will be left to CIO. Does one sometimes fuss while the other is being helped? Yes, that's life, but it rarely gets to crying, and if it does, I get there as quick as possible to help the baby work through the problem or meet his needs.

However, I am lucky that DS2 is very "patient" for a baby. Additionally, when both DH and I are home, we tag team, so both kids can be helped when it's needed.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

We did CIO due to the circumstances, LO goes to sleep easily and happily on her own now, no problems.
I followed the Ferber method which it does say between 4 to 6 months but doesn't designate a precise age at which to begin his technique, since it can vary so much depending on the child.

shellbell3845 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:

@shellbell3845 not 30 minutes just crying, everyone will take it diferently of course. LO was put down drowsy and when she would wake up and cry when me or DH was out of the room (cleaning, showering/eating) we would wait a lil to see if she was gonna go back to sleep and if not we came and soothe her.

That is not what it sounds like in your original post. It sounds like you let your LO cry for 3-5 minutes for 30 minutes with minimal intervention. I don't know for sure, but I'm probably not the only one taking it differently.

shellbell3845 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:

We did CIO due to the circumstances, LO goes to sleep easily and happily on her own now, no problems.
I followed the Ferber method which it does say between 4 to 6 months but doesn't designate a precise age at which to begin his technique, since it can vary so much depending on the child.

But 8 woks is like 2mo, not 4-6. Right?

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

We did CIO due to the circumstances, LO goes to sleep easily and happily on her own now, no problems.
I followed the Ferber method which it says you can start between 4 to 6 months but doesn't designate a precise age at which to begin his technique, since it can vary so much depending on the child.

MamaHollywood27 · July 2014

DreamingBabies said:

shellbell3845 said:

Sscarolynedvx said:

We did CIO due to the circumstances, LO goes to sleep easily and happily on her own now, no problems.
I followed the Ferber method which it does say between 4 to 6 months but doesn't designate a precise age at which to begin his technique, since it can vary so much depending on the child.

But 8 woks is like 2mo, not 4-6. Right?

That's my understanding of math too!

@Sscarolynedvx‌ what "circumstances" are you referencing?

Mamas gotta get hers hey! Ha ha ha

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

Yes, two months.
All babies are different, this isnt child abuse each person has different ways of raising children. I know what my baby needs and why it was done at that point.

p2k2c4bk2p2 · July 2014

Two months!! Dang.

p2k2c4bk2p2 · July 2014

Sadly people definitely do that.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

It's okay to let a baby cry for a specified period of time (often a very short period of time) before offering comfort. Like a said 3-5 minutes NOT 25-30 min.
I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.
Falling asleep on your own is a skill like any other and that your baby can master this skill if you give him the opportunity. No more discussion.

MamaHollywood27 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:
It's okay to let a baby cry for a specified period of time (often a very short period of time) before offering comfort. Like a said 3-5 minutes NOT 25-30 min.
I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.
Falling asleep on your own is a skill like any other and that your baby can master this skill if you give him the opportunity. No more discussion.

Oh ok, we are all done now?

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:

I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.

And It was not like I could sit down and just pat her, I had to be walking around and rocking LO all night long or no sleep at all. Try having to do that day and night!

shellbell3845 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:

It's okay to let a baby cry for a specified period of time (often a very short period of time) before offering comfort. Like a said 3-5 minutes NOT 25-30 min.
I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.
Falling asleep on your own is a skill like any other and that your baby can master this skill if you give him the opportunity. No more discussion.

But...8 weeks? I just don't think falling asleep alone is a skill an 8wk baby can master. Like crawling isn't a skill my 5mo old can master.

MamaHollywood27 · July 2014

Bookshelves said:

Sscarolynedvx said:

Sscarolynedvx said:

I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.

And It was not like I could sit down and just pat her, I had to be walking around and rocking LO all night long or no sleep at all. Try having to do that day and night!

... I did.

Still do some nights......

shellbell3845 · July 2014

Bookshelves said:

Sscarolynedvx said:

I would either have to rock her to sleep all night long or not get any rest at all.

And It was not like I could sit down and just pat her, I had to be walking around and rocking LO all night long or no sleep at all. Try having to do that day and night!
... I did.

+1

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

@MamaHollywood27 at least for me no more discussion

I shared my experience and how it worked for me and my baby and LO can sleep very well in her crib ever since and LO is a very happy baby after CIO for a period of 5 min, the most. Thanks for the inputs but there isn't a designate precise age, it's all about what you are comfortable with and how well you know your baby.
:-h

SuzyQq02 · July 2014

Oy, this is why Dr. Ferber gets a bad rep.

The first edition of Dr. Ferber's book prescribes sleep training no earlier than 4 months. This has later been amended to 6 months. The "circumstances" that are laid or in the book are generally reasons to DELAY sleep training, not accelerate it. As far as I know, the sleep center at BCH that's run by Ferber won't even see kids younger than 6 months because there is no normal for sleep prior to that... the people I know that have done consults there were all at least 9 months with a diagnosed sleep disorder.

Just using gradual extinction techniques is not the same thing as actually following Dr. Ferber's advice.

MissDemeanor · July 2014

Hg45 said:

A minute here or there is not really CIO in my opinion. There have been times I've had no choice but let LO cry to run to the bath or turn off the gas etc. I however have made exception on rare occasions. With mild PPD my temper would soar if I could not manage to get him to sleep. I've walked out, let him cry, counted to 10 to get my emotions back in order and picked him up. To me CIO in that situation was preferred rather than me having a nervous break down. My point being OP, yes it's hard with a toddler ( and phone ;-)) and baby at times. If it's absolutely necessary on occasion to deal with something else I think a little bit of crying is fine( key words being 'on occasion' ). However I think if you make it a practice it will impact your LO in the long run so please ensure you identify when those rare occasions are. Additionally CIO for sleep training is very different from what you are calling CIO in your post. CIO advocates speak of it mostly in relation to sleep training and not when you have a toddler crisis.

I just wanted to add that the above bolded statement is exactly the right thing to do if you need to. When you're overwhelmed like that it's ok to take time to collect yourself. Totally a different thing than crying it out.

Sscarolynedvx · July 2014

After rocking LO while walking around the house all night LO would co-sleeping because breastfeeding, then bed is a queen size not enough space for all 3 of us plus I think its very unsafe in certain ways. I spoke to the pedi and she said if I would know when LO was ready and what would work for us and it certainly did work, I could not choose a different time the 2 month mark was perfect for baby, me and hubby.
Sorry ladies who disagreed, and for the ones that were able to stay up all night/day while rocking you are awesome.
The same way some people say its wrong there will be others saying its right, it all depends, in the end I am the one that knows my LOs needs.

cattuccino · July 2014

SgrRay929 said:

Sscarolynedvx said:
@MamaHollywood27 at least for me no more discussion
I shared my experience and how it worked for me and my baby and LO can sleep very well in her crib ever since and LO is a very happy baby after CIO for a period of 5 min, the most. Thanks for the inputs but there isn't a designate precise age, it's all about what you are comfortable with and how well you know your baby.
:-h
Are you fucking serious?

+1

I know my baby VERY well.
So much in fact that I know she needs us when she cries. And I know she needs rocked or a song or story or cuddled to sleep, or just some company.
Day and night.

emar129 · July 2014

ashleen223 said:

I think you are the ONLY one saying it's right.

yep.

not cool, OP, not cool.

EDIT: no, alphaphi, you're fine (odd to say). goat's milk girl...not okay. Your baby could have needed one of their basic needs met and you just let them cry so you can sleep? no.

MamaHollywood27 · July 2014

Sscarolynedvx said:
After rocking LO while walking around the house all night LO would co-sleeping because breastfeeding, then bed is a queen size not enough space for all 3 of us plus I think its very unsafe in certain ways. I spoke to the pedi and she said if I would know when LO was ready and what would work for us and it certainly did work, I could not choose a different time the 2 month mark was perfect for baby, me and hubby.
Sorry ladies who disagreed, and for the ones that were able to stay up all night/day while rocking you are awesome.
The same way some people say its wrong there will be others saying its right, it all depends, in the end I am the one that knows my LOs needs.

Oh shit! Co-sleeping is unsafe? Well
IMO it's not if done right... I have with all 5 of my kids and it worked for me.

emar129 · July 2014

@avswolf apostrophes are extra work. just like getting out of bed at night.

emar129 · July 2014

@megash113 haha i'm sorry. used to be elissarump

ramfan05 · July 2014

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but when I had a baby, I knew I was signing up for sleepless nights and having to take care of a crying baby (at ALL hours of the day/night). I also agree with the PPs who said something about not putting my sleep ahead of my baby's needs. No way were my needs more important at that point (nor are they now).

FTR, I am currently in the camp of letting her fuss a bit when she wakes up to see if she is going to put herself back to sleep. Once it escalates to full on crying, however, I know she needs something and I (or DH) am there to take care of her.

And I am totally side-eyeing any pedi who tells you at 8 weeks that you can try CIO whenever you are ready.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

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1linedrawing · July 2014

WildFlower26 said:
I wish I'd had all of you when DD1 was a baby. All of my IRL friends strongly advocate babywise. I quickly set it aside as it wasn't for me, but I felt like there was something wrong because my baby didn't sleep and I didn't let her scream. No one told me it was okay to rock her and feed her all night long. That is what I was doing, but I felt like I shouldn't be.

Socially, most of my friends(at that time) believe that husband and wife time is more important than a baby's needs. They are not bad moms, but they have a different style than I do. I have since made new friends and gained confidence as an advocate for my children.

Anyway, rambling over, just saying I appreciate you all and the perspectives you bring!

ETA: One such friend recently told me she left her sick 8 year old home alone with a trash can and a cell phone.

I'm glad you have new friends.

BB0214 · July 2014

I advocate PARTS of Babywise. Where it ended for me was letting my baby cry during the night to try to get her to re-settle and sleep. Fussing and re-settling is totally different from crying and eventually falling asleep due to exhaustion. Also, there are a lot of babies who need to eat sooner than every two and a half to three hours. It doesn't work for everyone. It also doesn't account for babies who don't nap well or for the length of time they prescribe. There are a lot of holes in the theory behind it.
As we all saw from MH's idea yesterday to let our LO cry, it's not good. I'll come out and say that it's down right cruel. I get going crazy from sleep deprivation. It's tough. There's a reason for why it's used as a means of torture. But there are so many other things you can do other than resorting to CIO. Sleep deprivation now is a small price to pay for setting the stage for your child being secure in knowing that he/she can count on you no matter what.

cattuccino · July 2014

I get what most of you are saying about LO'S needs, but I hope that the moms saying LO's needs are above their own are about small things like a few hours sleep or peeing or eating right away and that it is not taking over things like your meals altogether, and actual sleep needed to function coherently. A malnourished and legitimate sleep deprived mommy is not what LO's need. They need mommy to look after themselves too.

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