UO - have we given up?

MommaP12 · July 2014

kelbel527 said:

hmp1 said:

I saw an interesting story regarding kids and guns. They put a small group of kids alone in a room with a (empty) gun and watched. The 5 year olds no matter their background of playing with guns and having gun safety lessons to never playing with guns, all picked up the gun and looked down the barrel. Not until closer to 8 did they understand the danger of not even touching it but even half of those kids picked it up.

That's interesting. Frankly, my shielding my kid from guns is an attempt to make sure he doesn't think they're cool, but at the same time, I think having exposure to them lessens the appeal of them and teaching safety is important. It's one of those lessons that I think are better saved for later. But even I go back and forth on it.

@mommap12 - Brody learned about guns from school, I'm fairly certain. He doesn't watch any shows that have them and we never exposed him to them and when he was 3, he came home talking about them. There's no way to perfectly shelter them from it all (no matter how hard I try ). He also knows a lot about Star Wars and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles despite never seeing them on TV or being exposed to them at home.

I think I saw that @hmp1 - a Dateline maybe? (exciting Friday nights in our house!)

Yep @kelbel527 I'm certain it's school too because DS came home wanting to watch Power Rangers (UMM NO) and I don't mind him liking Transformers, but some are for like 10 year olds and I wish he would stick to the Rescue Bots but I can't get him to, especially with the dang movies coming out and being filmed here in Chicago - he saw optimus prime on the street downtown one day and was so excited last summer. Wish I could put him in a bubble, but alas...

I don't mind Star Wars too much because at least it's a light saber...ha. Weak!

PenelopePond · July 2014

No guns in our house, either. Not even water guns. Ethan asks, but then always says: "Oh yeah. You're never buying me a gun." I just feel really weird about guns. There are plenty of other fun toys a kid can play with that don't involve "shooting" someone.

Possible UO: I find it weird that DH thinks old pics of me are hot. A friend of mine sent me a pic of my sis and me on graduation day (I had sent it to him, we were pen pals). I sent the pic to DH. He thinks it's hot. And he likes my senior pictures, too. I know it's because I'm skinnier and look like I did when we met. I just feel like it's a different person or something.

Cheenomae · July 2014

So this is late, but here's hoping it gets seen tomorrow, perhaps.

Mason has a toy gun that's bright orange, yellow, green, and clear. I let him point it at his sister and pretend to shoot her. She falls to the ground in dramatics and he laughs hysterically. It literally has us laughing forever. I was super uncomfortable about it at first and DH explained to me that it's our job to teach Mason the time and place and absolutely not to point it at others. He said he played with toy guns when he was little and when he was old enough he knew the rules and what not that went with them. I agreed with Zach and let Mason have his gun. He's a freaking 2 year old....it's what they do. Obviously all your kids have learned it from somewhere and you're anti toy guns.

It wasn't going to do me any good not to let him have it as EVERYTHING he picks up in our house suddenly becomes a toy gun and he makes shooting noises with it.

My question for you ladies who are completely anti toy guns/water guns is this. Do you have a fear that because you've shielded your child to such an extent from guns that now the conversation of guns won't even really ever come up and perhaps doing your child a disservice. What happens when they are at a friends house and come across a gun and have had zero conversations about gun safety?

LITERALLY NO judgment, I'm just curious, and definitely not looking for a debate. If it were up to me we also would not have had toy guns and absolutely NO pointing guns at each other or fake, made up guns. DH has kind of brought me to the other side.

@kelbel527, @Mommap12, @PenelopePond

MississippiCatfish · July 2014

Cheenomae said:
So this is late, but here's hoping it gets seen tomorrow, perhaps.

Mason has a toy gun that's bright orange, yellow, green, and clear. I let him point it at his sister and pretend to shoot her. She falls to the ground in dramatics and he laughs hysterically. It literally has us laughing forever. I was super uncomfortable about it at first and DH explained to me that it's our job to teach Mason the time and place and absolutely not to point it at others. He said he played with toy guns when he was little and when he was old enough he knew the rules and what not that went with them. I agreed with Zach and let Mason have his gun. He's a freaking 2 year old....it's what they do. Obviously all your kids have learned it from somewhere and you're anti toy guns.

It wasn't going to do me any good not to let him have it as EVERYTHING he picks up in our house suddenly becomes a toy gun and he makes shooting noises with it.

My question for you ladies who are completely anti toy guns/water guns is this. Do you have a fear that because you've shielded your child to such an extent from guns that now the conversation of guns won't even really ever come up and perhaps doing your child a disservice. What happens when they are at a friends house and come across a gun and have had zero conversations about gun safety?

LITERALLY NO judgment, I'm just curious, and definitely not looking for a debate. If it were up to me we also would not have had toy guns and absolutely NO pointing guns at each other or fake, made up guns. DH has kind of brought me to the other side.

@kelbel527, @Mommap12, @PenelopePond

I don't think that the anti-toy gun ladies would have "no conversations" about gun safety. Probably more on the other side of that spectrum! Just a guess.

This is something I haven't thought about at all yet. I'm sure I'll have to eventually, but haven't yet.

PenelopePond · July 2014

We definitely have talks about guns and gun safety. In fact, when he has a proper understanding and fear of guns, I may let him have one. I don't want him to start out ever thinking it's funny to shoot someone (and I would have said that even if you hadn't told your story, sorry). I don't like guns and what they can do. I want my boys to know that they're serious and that they can really hurt people. So far DS1 (4.75) does not turn random objects into guns, and neither does my S12er. That makes me happy.

Cheenomae · July 2014

MississippiCatfish said:

So this is late, but here's hoping it gets seen tomorrow, perhaps.

Mason has a toy gun that's bright orange, yellow, green, and clear. I let him point it at his sister and pretend to shoot her. She falls to the ground in dramatics and he laughs hysterically. It literally has us laughing forever. I was super uncomfortable about it at first and DH explained to me that it's our job to teach Mason the time and place and absolutely not to point it at others. He said he played with toy guns when he was little and when he was old enough he knew the rules and what not that went with them. I agreed with Zach and let Mason have his gun. He's a freaking 2 year old....it's what they do. Obviously all your kids have learned it from somewhere and you're anti toy guns.

It wasn't going to do me any good not to let him have it as EVERYTHING he picks up in our house suddenly becomes a toy gun and he makes shooting noises with it.

My question for you ladies who are completely anti toy guns/water guns is this. Do you have a fear that because you've shielded your child to such an extent from guns that now the conversation of guns won't even really ever come up and perhaps doing your child a disservice. What happens when they are at a friends house and come across a gun and have had zero conversations about gun safety?

LITERALLY NO judgment, I'm just curious, and definitely not looking for a debate. If it were up to me we also would not have had toy guns and absolutely NO pointing guns at each other or fake, made up guns. DH has kind of brought me to the other side.

@kelbel527, @Mommap12, @PenelopePond
I don't think that the anti-toy gun ladies would have "no conversations" about gun safety. Probably more on the other side of that spectrum! Just a guess. This is something I haven't thought about at all yet. I'm sure I'll have to eventually, but haven't yet.

You're probably right. My perspective was coming kind of from "out of site, out of mind". I had never talked to Kenleigh about guns or gun safety because it never came up. To even think about that pisses me off at myself. After Mason started taking interest we talk to Kenleigh all the time about gun safety. So to be honest, I'm not sure if we didn't allow guns in the house to what extent I would have spoken to my kids about them...

PenelopePond · July 2014

The reason we've talked about guns and gun safety is because he's seen them on tv. I'm sure it's not appropriate to tell a 4.75 year old that the metal object flying through the air is about to hit someone and kill them, but we've done it (while watching History Channel stuff). He still doesn't really understand death or killing people (that's fine), and that's part of why I don't want him joking about it.

Cheenomae · July 2014

PenelopePond said:

The reason we've talked about guns and gun safety is because he's seen them on tv. I'm sure it's not appropriate to tell a 4.75 year old that the metal object flying through the air is about to hit someone and kill them, but we've done it (while watching History Channel stuff). He still doesn't really understand death or killing people (that's fine), and that's part of why I don't want him joking about it.

I hear ya. I asked just because I kind of stood where you ladies stand and I was super uncomfortable letting Mason play with the gun (it absolutely looks like a toy gun), but Zach said it's some of his fondest memories of being young and doing the stereotypical "boy stuff". Guns was a big part of that and he said he never felt on the line of the appropriateness of time and place as well as safety. It's not a hill to die on for me so I've wavered a little and feel okay about it.

TBC, gun safety is a hill to die on, just not having toy guns in the house.

PenelopePond · July 2014

I don't judge people who let their kids play with toy guns or water guns. They were a part of my childhood, too. I just feel weird about them now.

Holly_1007 · July 2014

Keagan learned about guns at school through his friends. He also knows who Spider-Man and superman and batman are, but has never actually seen the movies. He does not have a toy gun, but he does have objects that he pretends are guns and he has a water gun. I think we call it a super soaker. Any time he is pretending to use a gun I tell him he cannot point it at anyone. He gets three chances and then it is taken away. DH has a safe inside a locked room in our basement that has guns in it. I know that he will want yo introduce them to the boys eventually so I want them to learn how to be safe with toy guns first.

Unknown · July 2014

This content has been removed.

noloveintennis · July 2014

I've been lucky to get to a few child development seminars with Dan Hodgins, who is an excellent speaker. He talks a lot about the differences between boys and girls, and how they play. He also talked a lot about playing guns. He mentions how even if you have a gun ban in your house, they will make something else into a gun, even finger guns. He allowed the kids in his classroom to play shooting games, but only kids who wanted to be shot, oh, Susie doesn't want to be shot at today, you can't shoot Susie, ask Johnny if he wants to be shot. He thinks kids being able to play good guy/bad guy is a good learning experience, and be I g able to act out death, death scenes, funerals etc is a way for kids to learn about death, and work out their feeings about it. I wish I could find some of his presentations online, because he really made some good points. I was always anti-guns as well. I never let me preschool children play with guns in the classroom or even play that someone had died until I listened to him. Not saying he would change everyones mind, but it was somethingto think about. Short non rambling version- my kids can play guns, but there will be rules for shooting play.

kelbel527 · July 2014

Cheenomae said:

So this is late, but here's hoping it gets seen tomorrow, perhaps.

Mason has a toy gun that's bright orange, yellow, green, and clear. I let him point it at his sister and pretend to shoot her. She falls to the ground in dramatics and he laughs hysterically. It literally has us laughing forever. I was super uncomfortable about it at first and DH explained to me that it's our job to teach Mason the time and place and absolutely not to point it at others. He said he played with toy guns when he was little and when he was old enough he knew the rules and what not that went with them. I agreed with Zach and let Mason have his gun. He's a freaking 2 year old....it's what they do. Obviously all your kids have learned it from somewhere and you're anti toy guns.

It wasn't going to do me any good not to let him have it as EVERYTHING he picks up in our house suddenly becomes a toy gun and he makes shooting noises with it.

My question for you ladies who are completely anti toy guns/water guns is this. Do you have a fear that because you've shielded your child to such an extent from guns that now the conversation of guns won't even really ever come up and perhaps doing your child a disservice. What happens when they are at a friends house and come across a gun and have had zero conversations about gun safety?

LITERALLY NO judgment, I'm just curious, and definitely not looking for a debate. If it were up to me we also would not have had toy guns and absolutely NO pointing guns at each other or fake, made up guns. DH has kind of brought me to the other side.

@kelbel527, @Mommap12, @PenelopePond

Coming back a little late, but to answer your question, @cheenomae, we do talk about it. We say that they hurt people and leave it at that. We will talk about safety more when he gets older, but for now, he just knows it is not ok to use or touch a gun. DH doesn't hunt, so we can avoid the conversation a bit longer. However, a good friend of ours has a DD with her own (kid) bow and arrow. They shoot it at a blow up bear. We had to have a hunting conversation at their house. So right now I think he only thinks people hunt with bows

. I agree there is a fine balance and he obviously learns about these things from school, but he just knows as a 4 year old that guns are not for him.

Cheenomae · July 2014

This discussion has been good for me. I feel like agree with @harti09‌ and her stance and then everything @noloveintennis‌ mentioned hit home perfectly for me!! Thanks, guys!

LyndseylovesHugh · July 2014

Pokedot said:

BobKat22 said:

Ugh my sister thinks she is a fashionista, yet she wears Juicy velour suits. I tell her she looks ghetto all the time and she acts like I have no fashion sense. This isn't really an UO. More of a thought. How is it not uncommon to have an AC in 2014 in certain places? Where are these areas? I've heard some parts of the country have cars that don't have AC either. Is that true? Not having air conditioning reminds of the days when milk was delivered to your door step every morning. Obviously, I haven't done much traveling around the country so I'm clueless.

We don't have AC in our house unless you count window units and those aren't put in currently. Our summer has been very mild like 70 is the average high so far. Many people here have it but it tends to be the older generations that put it in. It'd cost us a fortune because we have hot water heat, not forced air. Also the only reason we have the window units was because of how goddamn hot it was the year I was pregnant with DS. Hottest summer we've had in years up here. Ugh.

I live in the Pacific Northwest, near-ish Seattle, and very few people here have AC. I mean, like I know one person that has central air in their house. Two summers ago we met some friends at a trendy brunch place in the city to escape the heat and the damn restaurant did not even have AC. Most of the year it is not a big deal, there might be one or two weeks a year that AC would be nice, but this year it is especially hot and it really effing sucks.

kdsmith43 · July 2014

I should have been more clear in my statement. DS will not have any toy guns that resemble a real gun at this age. When he is old enough to have responsibility, he will have guns (BB guns, etc) but I do not think it is age appropriate at this time. We are gun enthusiast and will teach him about guns and gun safety to let him choose his interests on his own. We have several guns in our home (way out of reach, with a safety, locked away).

Flamingemu · July 2014

amandad715 said:

New UO thanks to @amandad715 in the TT thread, Beer should not have other things mixed with it. My only exceptions are a lime in Corona and an orange slice in a white beer - and I only drink those in a Blue Moon (see what I did there?)
What about beer mixed with beer? Leinenkugel makes some really good ones that taste good 1/2 and 1/2. Honey weiss + Beery Weiss = Honey Bear Blue Moon + Berry Weiss = Blue Bear I had to look up how to spell Leinenkugel and a frosty bottle came up in the search. Sadsies. I am having the worst time this summer not partaking in summer beverages. Maybe bc it's the just beginning of being pg. Last time, we were all in the home stretch of summer. Now I just see the dark days of winter as my endpoint. Totally different. Winter means red wine to me and I don't enjoy that as much as a beer on the deck after the kiddos are in bed.

Honey & berries should not be ingredients in beer. haha

MississippiCatfish · July 2014

Flamingemu said:

amandad715 said:

New UO thanks to @amandad715 in the TT thread, Beer should not have other things mixed with it. My only exceptions are a lime in Corona and an orange slice in a white beer - and I only drink those in a Blue Moon (see what I did there?)
What about beer mixed with beer?

Leinenkugel makes some really good ones that taste good 1/2 and 1/2. Honey weiss + Beery Weiss = Honey Bear
Blue Moon + Berry Weiss = Blue Bear

I had to look up how to spell Leinenkugel and a frosty bottle came up in the search. Sadsies. I am having the worst time this summer not partaking in summer beverages. Maybe bc it's the just beginning of being pg. Last time, we were all in the home stretch of summer. Now I just see the dark days of winter as my endpoint. Totally different. Winter means red wine to me and I don't enjoy that as much as a beer on the deck after the kiddos are in bed.

Honey & berries should not be ingredients in beer. haha

I somehow missed this conversation.

1. I grew up in Chippewa Falls, WI. Home of Leinenkugel.
2. What about beergaritas? Lime margarita with a corona tipped upside down in it.

Flamingemu · July 2014

MississippiCatfish said:

amandad715 said:

New UO thanks to @amandad715 in the TT thread, Beer should not have other things mixed with it. My only exceptions are a lime in Corona and an orange slice in a white beer - and I only drink those in a Blue Moon (see what I did there?)
What about beer mixed with beer? Leinenkugel makes some really good ones that taste good 1/2 and 1/2. Honey weiss + Beery Weiss = Honey Bear Blue Moon + Berry Weiss = Blue Bear I had to look up how to spell Leinenkugel and a frosty bottle came up in the search. Sadsies. I am having the worst time this summer not partaking in summer beverages. Maybe bc it's the just beginning of being pg. Last time, we were all in the home stretch of summer. Now I just see the dark days of winter as my endpoint. Totally different. Winter means red wine to me and I don't enjoy that as much as a beer on the deck after the kiddos are in bed.

Honey & berries should not be ingredients in beer. haha
I somehow missed this conversation. 1. I grew up in Chippewa Falls, WI. Home of Leinenkugel. 2. What about beergaritas? Lime margarita with a corona tipped upside down in it.

I am clearly a purist when it comes to beer. Plus, the darker the better. So I wouldn't be drinking most of that anyway.

MommaP12 · July 2014

kelbel527 said:

Cheenomae said:

So this is late, but here's hoping it gets seen tomorrow, perhaps.

Mason has a toy gun that's bright orange, yellow, green, and clear. I let him point it at his sister and pretend to shoot her. She falls to the ground in dramatics and he laughs hysterically. It literally has us laughing forever. I was super uncomfortable about it at first and DH explained to me that it's our job to teach Mason the time and place and absolutely not to point it at others. He said he played with toy guns when he was little and when he was old enough he knew the rules and what not that went with them. I agreed with Zach and let Mason have his gun. He's a freaking 2 year old....it's what they do. Obviously all your kids have learned it from somewhere and you're anti toy guns.

It wasn't going to do me any good not to let him have it as EVERYTHING he picks up in our house suddenly becomes a toy gun and he makes shooting noises with it.

My question for you ladies who are completely anti toy guns/water guns is this. Do you have a fear that because you've shielded your child to such an extent from guns that now the conversation of guns won't even really ever come up and perhaps doing your child a disservice. What happens when they are at a friends house and come across a gun and have had zero conversations about gun safety?

LITERALLY NO judgment, I'm just curious, and definitely not looking for a debate. If it were up to me we also would not have had toy guns and absolutely NO pointing guns at each other or fake, made up guns. DH has kind of brought me to the other side.

@kelbel527, @Mommap12, @PenelopePond

Coming back a little late, but to answer your question, @cheenomae, we do talk about it. We say that they hurt people and leave it at that. We will talk about safety more when he gets older, but for now, he just knows it is not ok to use or touch a gun. DH doesn't hunt, so we can avoid the conversation a bit longer. However, a good friend of ours has a DD with her own (kid) bow and arrow. They shoot it at a blow up bear. We had to have a hunting conversation at their house. So right now I think he only thinks people hunt with bows . I agree there is a fine balance and he obviously learns about these things from school, but he just knows as a 4 year old that guns are not for him.

Yes, we're like this pretty much @cheenomae. I don't completely shelter him from them - as others said you really can't what with school and what's on TV sometimes. He knows they are bad, they hurt people, etc. and we just tell him it's not good to touch them or use them right now, but at this age, who knows what's registering or not. Living where we live, he's not exposed to them at all meaning, no one we know hunts/we're not in a rural area or anything and we don't even have any police officer friends or anything so he's not exposed to them. When he gets to the age of play dates or going to friends houses, I will be asking the parents if there are guns in the home.

hmp1 · July 2014

I guess I equate the toy light up bright guns we have the same as the play kitchen. He is not allowed to play with the real stove or oven and he completely understands the difference. Not saying I would ever leave him in a room with a real gun but I know he can understand the difference between a toy that is for play and the real thing that can hurt someone badly. Same with his toy chain saw. He knows he is not allowed to touch DH's real saw even though we let him play with his toy chain saw.

kdsmith43 · July 2014

hmp1 said:

I guess I equate the toy light up bright guns we have the same as the play kitchen. He is not allowed to play with the real stove or oven and he completely understands the difference. Not saying I would ever leave him in a room with a real gun but I know he can understand the difference between a toy that is for play and the real thing that can hurt someone badly. Same with his toy chain saw. He knows he is not allowed to touch DH's real saw even though we let him play with his toy chain saw.

T is facinated by all of DH's chainsaws. He tries to pick them up all the time! Ones like this...

I guess it's like Christmas for a boy walking into the garage with 50 chainsaws though, he is so curious!

kdsmith43 · July 2014

Hyaline · July 2014

Our weird reenacting hobby means that we're around guns--admittedly, 18th century replicas, but still. They're real guns. They're in the house (*gasp* unlocked, but we don't own ammo, so...they're basically decorative clubs) and she's already been exposed to seeing them fire (to which she replied "more boom. I want boom").

My big thing is engendering an understanding as to how serious gun safety is and what guns can do. The way they're used in reenactment backs this up--she will see them used, she will see the protocols we go through to make sure they are used safely, she will probably see someone get reamed out for actually pointing the barrel at someone. So to me--it's an organic thing. If you have guns in your house or in your life--as a sportsman, a hunter, a target shooter, whatever--you should be using them in a way that models the right way to think about guns. On top of the direct conversations you have with your kids. They should see them used and respected by the adults in their lives.

My only rule will be never, ever point ANY gun at another person. Even in play with a toy gun. It's a respect thing--point near, point over their head, but once you understand aiming, you NEVER aim at another person.

hmp1 · July 2014

kdsmith43 said:

Our play date should be letting the kids watch your DH cut down a tree

kdsmith43 · July 2014

hmp1 said:

kdsmith43 said:

Our play date should be letting the kids watch your DH cut down a tree

Also, why haven't we had a play date yet? We need to do that. He would love that, he's always excited to show off his skills

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