Sleep training questions — The Bump
Babies: 3 - 6 Months

Sleep training questions

Hi,

our little daughter is now 4 1/2 months old and has so far been sleeping in our room in a bassinet. We feel it's time to move her to her bedroom and crib and train her to sleep through the night.

Currently she wakes up 2 times a night to feed. There was one day recently she slept for 8 hours. She sleeps swaddled and with a paci. But at her daycare, they don't swaddle. At daycare most of her naps are 30 min long.

In the last 3 days we have left her cry to sleep and she goes down in max 30 minutes. But still swaddles and with paci. And we want to start sleep training in her room next week, but have some questions.

- We are thinking of cutting swaddle and paci and make it a clean break. We think that if she has the paci, will wake up without a paci and not be able to soothe helself. Thoughts?

- How do we know she is not really hungry if she wakes up crying in the middle of the night? We just ignore and let her cry?

- As far as setting a schedule, let's say we need to wake her at 6am every day so Mom can feed her and give her to me so I can get her ready for daycare and mom can go to work. We need to maintain the schedule on weekends and holidays as well?

I really appreciate your input.


Thanks

«1

Re: Sleep training questions

  • Loading the player...
  • Loading the player...
  • I think your expectations may be a little too high for her age...STTN with no feeds at that age is a tall order. You can't "train" a baby to sleep all night and you can't ignore her cries for hunger overnight either. She may need to eat every night 1-2x for a long time.  I really don't think letting her cry for 30 minutes is a good idea at her age... you know she's really hungry at night if she has a good feed, if she's just using you a pacifier then it's something different but I suspect at her age it's real hunger so I don't think you should deny her. As she gets older you will be able to read those cries better too. She's just far too young right now to do anything but go to her and help her.  

     My son goes to sleep with a paci many nights and rarely wakes for it in the middle of the night. Every baby is different though. Just do what you need to do to help your baby sleep and worry about breaking "habits" later. Don't worry about something that hasn't even happened yet!  My DS uses his lovey to self sooth when he wakes MOTN and if that doesn't work then he calls for me and I go to him. There are lots of things that can mess with baby sleep - teething, growth spurts, developmental milestones etc.. etc... so you need to be prepared for these things. Even if your baby can self sooth or fall asleep on their own, you need to know these are things that'll wake them and they need you. And 8 hours is a long time already!! It will get longer as she gets older- don't jump the gun. 

    If you want to do something, then create healthy sleep habits such as a good bedtime routine, use a gentle transition out of swaddle and into crib. These things don't happen overnight!  I would highly suggest reading the "no cry sleep solution" book- lots of good tips on sleep in there and also a section on why crying it out  is a not-so-good-idea. 
    image

    Inn2David&Jamie2010Mizuiro007breeibe
  • I assume you have done the research into when to do it and weighed the pros and cons since your question asks HOW to do it and not if you should. When I did sleep training with my DD at 3.5 months I put her to bed with the pacifier, but I did not replace it if she lost it. If you are concerned with MOTN feedings you can try soothing back to sleep without feeding, gradually reducing the amount you feed, or you could try leaving her a few minutes to see if she goes back to sleep on her own. It is possible that she does still need a night feeding at this age. When, I did sleep training I had a conversation with my pediatrician to hear her recommendations and read Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child. 
    BabyFruit Ticker
    chicsahmutlawgirldiviertaDavid&Jamie2010
  • through the many books i have read and the things i have practice with my own 3 month old girl toni...

    1.) if you want them on a schedule stick to the schedule
    2.)dim the lights before bedtime and make sure the room had a lamp or a dimmer for the main light so they dont wake up to total brightness.
    3.) if you do go to your child you should go while they first cry ( sounds like a wining cry ) so they once again dont wake up completely from crying so hard or tire themselves out or getting a soar throat.
    4.) try your best not to talk to much during night feeds or diaper change...(i try to hum or put a soft lullaby on)

    These tips help me with my lil girl toni going from sleeping with me (no cosleeper) to her crib

    p.s. my family is the kind of family that doesnt let babies "self soothe"  but my in-laws do and they do try to enforce it on my new family... so please be nice to people you dont know how they live there lives. NO one would like being criticized as a parent
    alemke09diviertaDavid&Jamie2010breeibe
  • If your daughter is only waking up 2 times a night, that is great and totally normal. You can tell she's hungry by feeding her...if she eats she's hungry, if not then she just needed comforting probably.

    When my LO wakes up in the motn I wait for a couple minutes, usually he goes right back to sleep. He always wakes up between 2am and 3am to eat, and again between 5:30am and 6am. So I get up with him twice a night. This is normal and I won't try to train him to sttn because I can't train him to not be hungry.

    Please make sure that whatever you decide to do you are keeping your daughter's well being in mind, and not just trying to get more sleep for yourself. Waking up twice is awesome and some moms are dealing with way more wake ups than that!
    image
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]aditigirlDavid&Jamie2010
  • - We are thinking of cutting swaddle and paci and make it a clean break. We think that if she has the paci, will wake up without a paci and not be able to soothe helself. Thoughts?  Then why did you give her the paci in the first place?  In a few months she'll be able to find it in the crib herself.  In the meantime, maybe just go in there and retrieve it once she's asleep and it falls out?  You already gave it to her so I think it's kind of mean to take it away all of a sudden.  You could try slowly encouraging her to suck her hand/thumb during the day and see if she starts to take to that instead of the paci.  Also, if you're going to eventually cut both swaddling and the paci, and move her to the crib, you might try doing just one at a time.

    - How do we know she is not really hungry if she wakes up crying in the middle of the night? We just ignore and let her cry?  If you can pat her, rock her, or walk her to sleep then she's not hungry.  If that doesn't work and she takes a feeding then she's hungry.  Babies change all the time.  Just because she doesn't need to feed in the middle of the night one week doesn't mean she won't be in a growth spurt and need to feed the next night.  I'm not sure if your daughter is BF or FF.  If BF, then she will probably make a beeline to the breast with her head and that's a sure sign she's hungry or just needs the comfort of the breast (which is still valid).

    - As far as setting a schedule, let's say we need to wake her at 6am every day so Mom can feed her and give her to me so I can get her ready for daycare and mom can go to work. We need to maintain the schedule on weekends and holidays as well?

    I try to keep DS on the same schedule whether it's during the week or weekend.  It kind of sucks getting up early but it works out so much better in the end.  However, my son loves being on a schedule.  Some kids don't need it.  

    [Deleted User]trudibell[Deleted User]
  • I'm going to ditto the "ridiculous expectations" and what everyone else has said.  Your entire post just baffles me.

    One thing I will answer, though, is your question of how to tell if your baby is hungry or not.  What we do for my LO is when she cries, my DH would go in and rock her for about 10-15 minutes.  If hungry, her cries would eventually intensify or she just wouldn't go down.  About half the time she went down with him rocking her.  Now, when she wakes, I can hear her stir but she's able to put herself back down so I know when she wakes and cries it's due to hunger.


     
             Baby C - 08.23.13
    [Deleted User]
  • OP has been blasted for "sleep training" and while I do agree you have to have realistic expectations of a 4 1/2 month old, I also think some "sleep training" is possible.  You can comfort and put back down (doesn't involve CIO).  You can do things like white noise.  You can get LO used to just being in the crib.  You can try things like the Merlin Sleep Suit.  I'm also in the process of transitioning my LO to the crib and while I don't let him cry, I do let him fuss for a minute or two to see if he'll get himself back down to sleep before I go in a comfort him by patting/rocking/walking, before I resort to nursing him back to sleep.  I did teach him to suck on his hand/thumb (I know some people think that's insane) and he now uses that to soothe himself back to sleep in about a minute now.  So it is possible to teach them good sleep and to get them to sleep where you want them to, you just have to be patient.  CIO is not the only way.
    David&Jamie2010
  • OP has been blasted for "sleep training" and while I do agree you have to have realistic expectations of a 4 1/2 month old, I also think some "sleep training" is possible.  You can comfort and put back down (doesn't involve CIO).  You can do things like white noise.  You can get LO used to just being in the crib.  You can try things like the Merlin Sleep Suit.  I'm also in the process of transitioning my LO to the crib and while I don't let him cry, I do let him fuss for a minute or two to see if he'll get himself back down to sleep before I go in a comfort him by patting/rocking/walking, before I resort to nursing him back to sleep.  I did teach him to suck on his hand/thumb (I know some people think that's insane) and he now uses that to soothe himself back to sleep in about a minute now.  So it is possible to teach them good sleep and to get them to sleep where you want them to, you just have to be patient.  CIO is not the only way.
    I agree with you its possible to sleep train however in the words of the OP "we are ignoring his cries for 30 mins" and "we swaddle and want to take away the pacifier" i.e. ability to self soothe... OP and his wife sound like heartless, cruelest parent. OP - you are absolutely horrible and dont deserve the miracle a baby is if you gonna treat it that way. 

  • You don't "train" a child- LO is not a dog. While I think you have legitimate questions here that warrant an answer, I can't get past the word "train".

    We did a lot of trial and error in finding a sleep routine. With figuring out LOs preferences, we were able to get to STTN at 4 weeks, but we know that's a combination of his preferences and our routine.... Not everyone is so lucky.

    I hope the baby's mom is better informed on this topic.
    Married DH <3 : 7/7/12; 3 fur babies (2 dogs and 1 cat)
    DS born 9/3/13; DD born 7/22/15; LO due 5/28/18
    FS (age 5) and FD (age 2) to become AS/AD very soon!

    [Deleted User][Deleted User]aditigirl
  • being supportive doesn't mean agreeing all the time...it can mean providing alternatives in a polite and thoughtful manner. 

    Maybe some of our expectations are off. We are here to get opinions, suggestions, etc...

    Thanks
    Mrsmo11divierta
  • muffyvonmuffmuffyvonmuff member
    edited January 2014
    Everyone has already said it  but seriously, the crying?  You're being mean. End. Of. Story.   

    My little guy is a little over 3 months, he has been in his crib since week 10.  
    1-Bigger bottle before bedtime for a fuller tummy, so up it an ounce.
    2-If you're ditching the swaddle LO might be cold, I use those furry carters bear suit zip ups but Im sure a halo sleep sack could work too.
    3- White noise.  I have a sleep sheep and that rain setting soothes him straight into dreamland.
    4- Rock LO after their last bottle so they are already asleep in your arm, makes the transition easy.

    My son sleeps 5 hours straight, wakes to eat for 15 minutes then goes another 3-5.  We've gotten 7-8 hour stretches but only on days he napped really well.  Good Luck.  And really, no crying is needed so pick up that sad baby.  
    image  image
    image
    Baby Muffy Due July.8.2015!



    Inn2aditigirl
  • LizghannamLizghannam member
    edited January 2014

    I agree that you're getting hated on rather strongly here. But like you said, you didn't make it clear that you go in every few minutes to comfort. 30 minutes straight just seems upsetting. We started CIO and it hasn't gone past 10 minutes. When we've tried everything...made sure he wasn't hungry, diaper was clean, felt loved...some times the only option is to let them work it out. I don't want him getting in the habit of having to be held or rocked to fall asleep. Made that mistake with my oldest. If you're checking in on them and letting them know you're still there, just not picking them up, I don't see anything wrong with it.

    I have to say that two times a night is amazing and I wish I had that! My LO currently wakes up every 2 hours...I don't mind, simply because my DS was never a good sleeper either and still wakes up at 2 1/2. I see it as our special one on one time :)

    But give her a break people! We can't all act like we love being sleep deprived. It sucks...yes it's something that comes with the territory but still...try to be somewhat understanding!

    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
    Carnation77jdb04dNortontojaime52005
  • I agree that you're getting hated on rather strongly here. But like you said, you didn't make it clear that you go in every few minutes to comfort. 30 minutes straight just seems upsetting. We started CIO and it hasn't gone past 10 minutes. When we've tried everything...made sure he wasn't hungry, diaper was clean, felt loved...some times the only option is to let them work it out. I don't want him getting in the habit of having to be held or rocked to fall asleep. Made that mistake with my oldest. If you're checking in on them and letting them know you're still there, just not picking them up, I don't see anything wrong with it.

    I have to say that two times a night is amazing and I wish I had that! My LO currently wakes up every 2 hours...I don't mind, simply because my DS was never a good sleeper either and still wakes up at 2 1/2. I see it as our special one on one time :)

    But give her a break people! We can't all act like we love being sleep deprived. It sucks...yes it's something that comes with the territory but still...try to be somewhat understanding!

    Waking up twice a night is not being sleep deprived. DS gets up usually twice a night and I work full time. I take night duty and DH gets up with him every morning at 7am so I can sleep more. I consider ourselves very very lucky that he only gets up twice, max. I'd never ever consider sleep training. He's hungry, so he deserves to be fed and not ignored.

     

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
    [Deleted User]trudibell[Deleted User]aditigirl
  • Just because she POSSIBLY gets sleep at night, doesn't mean she gets rest during the day, so she very well could be somewhat sleep deprived? Aren't all moms sleep deprived/drained in their own way? And who's to say he's hungry and that's why he's crying. If she's exhausted all measures to trying to make him content then there's not much you can really do but to let him work it out? Whether you hold him while he cries or lay him in his crib, it's no diff. One just may cause a clingy baby that needs to be held 24/7 (which I had this prob with my first son).
    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • Why are people still saying he lets his baby cry for 30 minutes?  He said they using soothing techniques for 30 minutes so she goes down.  I don't see anything heartless about that.
    Lizghannamroo1oojaime52005
  • From my own expereince, going in after a few minutes and rubbing his head letting him know I'm there soothes him. I don't have to pick him up (which only makes it worse because we're just having to start over)...he just wants to know that I'm there...which then I walk out and he's content. And I don't see a difference when your baby is crying your arms and won't stop and you're trying to soothe or they're crying alone and you're coming in to reassure. Like the PP said...she didn't say she just let him cry for 30 min with no reassuarance...You guys are acting like she's throwing her baby out in the cold and letting him freeze. Chill out!
    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • Why are people still saying he lets his baby cry for 30 minutes?  He said they using soothing techniques for 30 minutes so she goes down.  I don't see anything heartless about that.
    I made my comment because of this statement:

    In the last 3 days we have left her cry to sleep and she goes down in max 30 minutes. 

    There is no description of using "soothing techniques" during that time.
    PB102012[Deleted User]aditigirl
  • LizghannamLizghannam member
    edited January 2014
    Maybe I wasn't clear enough on my original message. We go back in the room every so minutes to confort the baby and show that we are around. We just doesn't pick her up, I guess this was an important part that I didn't mention. We have spent countless hours reading on sleep training. Everything we read points out (including our pediatrician) that this is the ideal age to move her into her room and sleep train her. That delaying it further will just make it more difficult on her and us later on.
     
     
     
     
    She clarified later that she did use soothing techniques
    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • That's your opinion, I just disagree. And I've noticed from my own experiences. We held our first constantly everywhere...attended to every little sound he made. He had to be rocked to sleep till he was nine months and never let anyone hold him or he'd throw a fit. I basically had a baby glued to me for nine months:) And I feel we caused that. With our second, I tried a different approach. I don't hold him constantly, I don't rush and pick him up the second he starts to fuss. He is perfectly content on his own and and goes to whoever will take him. And I FEEL that is because he isn't held 24/7...just my opinion.
    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards