Smoking weed while pregnant...

mommabird77

bstrangely:

Tiffgoddess:

I did click on your link and out of the works cited, most were actually from the 80's and early 90's.  Marijuana has changed a lot on the last 10 years.  It is being grown differently, there are now different types that have much higher THC levels than ever before.  Not only that, who knows what other chemicals are being used to grow it.  Pot is also being laced with many different things.  The pot of today is not the same as it used to be.  I used to be a very frequent pot smoker.  I stopped a long time ago, but  it isn't really the marijuna itself that bothers me, it is the what else could you be ingesting that is in it.  Unless it is home grown (as in you grow it, you know it is pure) you really don't know what you are getting.  I haven't smoked in almost 10 years and personally would not smoke pot while pregnant.

and again, you cited something with no citations at all. 

i know exactly what is in mine because it comes from one of the clubs in san francisco. you can even get it grown organically. this is one reason i think it needs to be legalized. it is also a myth that it is much more potent than it was (i don't know what exactly you're claiming but the link below has some good, hard numbers in it)... i don't know when you were smoking, but if you are still around child-bearing age, it couldn't have been too long ago.

https://www.slate.com/id/2074151/

if you read what I wrote I said 10 years ago.  I happen to be 30 (gassssp!)  Unfortunately the studies and real research on this subject is not always on the internet.. go read a real medical journal.. not something you just googled.  I really don't want to read some propaganda found on the internet. 

Pippi Langstrump

Well, I'm for legalizing MJ (despite never having smoked it myself and having no interest in doing so unless I ever need it for a medical reason).  I think its dangers are pretty minimal (to an adult, not a fetus), that it has great medical uses, and that it makes more sense from a fiscal perspective to tax it rather than criminalize it. I just think, like most of us her, that using it should be avoided while pregnant, same as drugs and cigarrettes. There's no point in arguing what's worst for your baby -- you're a loser if you endanger your fetus unnecesarily.

But, with this post... so much for dispelling myths about pot, if that's really the intent. This post doesn't make pot smokers look better, overall!

AleciaMarie

This whole debate is ridiculous, because it's not a debate. It's Bstrangely TRYING to have a civilized debate with a hundred other people clutching their pearls so hard it's clearly cutting off the oxygen to their brains. 

 She DOESN'T SMOKE IT WHILE SHE'S PREGNANT PEOPLE! And she has NOT been trying to say that everyone should smoke weed while pregnant! She's got a legitimate point- most people on here couldn't care less about someone having a beer every once in a while during pregnancy, even though there IS a documented and severe risk associated with alcohol during pregnancy- people make fun of others for being so wound up over feta cheese and lunch meat even though it's proven that it could kill the baby if contaminated food is eaten JUST ONCE. It's hypocritical, and it's seriously annoying that we can't even have this debate without trying to turn it into an "ZOMG YOUR SUCH A BAD MOM FOR EVEN THINKING CRITICALLY ABOUT THE POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF WEED!!!" session. 

Zofran is commonly given for extreme morning sickness during pregnancy, and it's commonly said that there are no known side effects. However, there have been no actual studies on pregnant women and their fetuses during pregnancy, so how do you know that medical grade marijuana is not actually safer than Zofran? Frankly, I would trust an HERB more than a cancer drug during pregnancy (though I would take neither, for the record before someone jumps all over me). Like it's been stated previously, there ARE doctors in other countries that DO prescribe MJ for morning sickness. 

MJ is illegal because of political ridiculousness throughout the past century. It's sad that you all have been brainwashed to think that Reefer Madness is for real. Maybe it's you all that need to do some research.  

bstrangely

monimonimoni:

1. Nothing wrong with many of them, all I was saying is that you should study them but you kept firing links off at me like some goddamn spam robot.

2. I never posted my anecdote as evidence, I posted it as experience. There is a huge difference.

3. LET IT GO.

Oh, and in response to your edit, yes, I have a degree in medical herbalism with 4 years of full time medical training. And I'm sorry if my network doesn't involve women who have been pregnant before and have tips to share in regards to non-herbal/pharmaceutical heartburn remedies. Way to go, you're much more all-knowing and mature than I.

you have been condescending and rude throughout this entire thread. i knew there was nothing wrong with anything i posted, yet you continually implied that there was. you also did try to refute my statement about weed having caused no deaths with your anecdote... even if you didn't think it was evidence, that is how it was presented.

why can't you just have an honest discussion without being so rude? i don't think there is anything wrong with being an herbalist, but i do think that if you're going to be so condescending, you'd better be able to back it up. 

bstrangely

Tiffgoddess:

if you read what I wrote I said 10 years ago.  I happen to be 30 (gassssp!)  Unfortunately the studies and real research on this subject is not always on the internet.. go read a real medical journal.. not something you just googled.  I really don't want to read some propaganda found on the internet. 

uh, ok. that's an odd rebuttal, since i cited the slate article because it actually analyzes the state propaganda on the subject, using the office of national drug policy's own pamphlets to counter claims made by the head of the department:

"ONDCP contradicted the boss's 30-fold nonsense in its own anti-drug media campaign, which features an essay titled, "Kids and Marijuana: The Facts." It states that THC levels "rose from under 2 percent in the late 1970s and early 1980s to just over 6 percent in 2000." (It was actually never under 2 percent in the '80s and was 4.88 percent, not 6 percent, in 2000, but hey?close enough for government work.)"

here's more:

"A recent report from the European Union noted that "a slight upward trend" in potency means little because the potency of U.S. marijuana "was very low by European standards."

https://www.alternet.org/drugs/19416/

here's an analysis of the claim with actual samples and testing, first published in the journal of psychoactive drugs:

https://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/hemp/general/potency.htm

so let's recap... i'm supposed to accept your assertion uncritically, when you present nothing to back it up, and you won't even read anything that i post when i try to discuss it with you.

bstrangely

OceanRunner:

Well, I'm for legalizing MJ (despite never having smoked it myself and having no interest in doing so unless I ever need it for a medical reason).  I think its dangers are pretty minimal (to an adult, not a fetus), that it has great medical uses, and that it makes more sense from a fiscal perspective to tax it rather than criminalize it. I just think, like most of us her, that using it should be avoided while pregnant, same as drugs and cigarrettes. There's no point in arguing what's worst for your baby -- you're a loser if you endanger your fetus unnecesarily.

But, with this post... so much for dispelling myths about pot, if that's really the intent. This post doesn't make pot smokers look better, overall!

why do i have to make pot smokers look better? i'm just trying to get people to critically examine this reaction they have to hearing about pot smoking. it's completely bizarre. and if you'll note, i did give it up immediately when i knew i'd conceived. 

i never said people should smoke while they are pregnant. not ever. i have no idea why people keep trying to confront me about something i didn't claim.

bstrangely

AleciaMarie:

This whole debate is ridiculous, because it's not a debate. It's Bstrangely TRYING to have a civilized debate with a hundred other people clutching their pearls so hard it's clearly cutting off the oxygen to their brains. 

 She DOESN'T SMOKE IT WHILE SHE'S PREGNANT PEOPLE! And she has NOT been trying to say that everyone should smoke weed while pregnant! She's got a legitimate point- most people on here couldn't care less about someone having a beer every once in a while during pregnancy, even though there IS a documented and severe risk associated with alcohol during pregnancy- people make fun of others for being so wound up over feta cheese and lunch meat even though it's proven that it could kill the baby if contaminated food is eaten JUST ONCE. It's hypocritical, and it's seriously annoying that we can't even have this debate without trying to turn it into an "ZOMG YOUR SUCH A BAD MOM FOR EVEN THINKING CRITICALLY ABOUT THE POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF WEED!!!" session. 

Zofran is commonly given for extreme morning sickness during pregnancy, and it's commonly said that there are no known side effects. However, there have been no actual studies on pregnant women and their fetuses during pregnancy, so how do you know that medical grade marijuana is not actually safer than Zofran? Frankly, I would trust an HERB more than a cancer drug during pregnancy (though I would take neither, for the record before someone jumps all over me). Like it's been stated previously, there ARE doctors in other countries that DO prescribe MJ for morning sickness. 

MJ is illegal because of political ridiculousness throughout the past century. It's sad that you all have been brainwashed to think that Reefer Madness is for real. Maybe it's you all that need to do some research.  

well said! thank you.

melzer14

bstrangely:

melzer14:

I officially decided that you have NO life and need to go find one...you have lost...obviously and no one agrees with you. I left for HOURS and come back and you are still attempting to fight with everyone about something ridiculous and makes you sounds like a dumb a$$.

Seriously...find something else to do....

annnddd scene!  

what does it say about you that you keep checking this thread?

 

uumm you fail...it's MY original post so me coming back and checking it HOURS later to find you still sadly attempting whatever it is you are doing....says nothing about me. Nice try though.

You make me sad!

AleciaMarie

melzer14:

bstrangely:

melzer14:

I officially decided that you have NO life and need to go find one...you have lost...obviously and no one agrees with you. I left for HOURS and come back and you are still attempting to fight with everyone about something ridiculous and makes you sounds like a dumb a$$.

Seriously...find something else to do....

annnddd scene!  

what does it say about you that you keep checking this thread?

 

uumm you fail...it's MY original post so me coming back and checking it HOURS later to find you still sadly attempting whatever it is you are doing....says nothing about me. Nice try though.

You make me sad!

"annnnd scene"

"you make me sad"

Honestly, are you four? This is the debate equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALALALALALA. 

Seriously though, what freaks you out so much about this particular debate? That someone might actually open their minds and realize the hypocrisy of saying "an occasional beer won't hurt" while saying in another thread "you're a terrible person that shouldn't be allowed to breed for even thinking that marijuana MIGHT have medical benefits to pregnant women!"? It's the hypocrisy that gets under my nerves so much. A beer is fine, but apparently critical thinking makes you a terrible person.  

melzer14

AleciaMarie:

melzer14:

bstrangely:

melzer14:

I officially decided that you have NO life and need to go find one...you have lost...obviously and no one agrees with you. I left for HOURS and come back and you are still attempting to fight with everyone about something ridiculous and makes you sounds like a dumb a$$.

Seriously...find something else to do....

annnddd scene!  

what does it say about you that you keep checking this thread?

 

uumm you fail...it's MY original post so me coming back and checking it HOURS later to find you still sadly attempting whatever it is you are doing....says nothing about me. Nice try though.

You make me sad!

"annnnd scene"

"you make me sad"

Honestly, are you four? This is the debate equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALALALALALA. 

Seriously though, what freaks you out so much about this particular debate? That someone might actually open their minds and realize the hypocrisy of saying "an occasional beer won't hurt" while saying in another thread "you're a terrible person that shouldn't be allowed to breed for even thinking that marijuana MIGHT have medical benefits to pregnant women!"? It's the hypocrisy that gets under my nerves so much. A beer is fine, but apparently critical thinking makes you a terrible person.  

Ohhh don't you sound like a real winner too... 

AleciaMarie

Got it. Your only weapon is name calling. 

Look, I'm not saying that smoking weed when pregnant is a good thing to do. I'm simply looking at all evidence and keeping my mind open that the more unorthodox answer might be the right one. And really, all I'm arguing against is the hypocrisy, which you can't seem to grasp well enough to formulate a response too. 

https://akomlandscape.org/2009/04/08/critical-thinking-is-your-umbrella-open/ 

melzer14

AleciaMarie:

Got it. Your only weapon is name calling. 

Look, I'm not saying that smoking weed when pregnant is a good thing to do. I'm simply looking at all evidence and keeping my mind open that the more unorthodox answer might be the right one. And really, all I'm arguing against is the hypocrisy, which you can't seem to grasp well enough to formulate a response too. 

https://akomlandscape.org/2009/04/08/critical-thinking-is-your-umbrella-open/ 

Well in MY opinion, the more unorthodox answer is the wrong one. I don't see how smoking pot while pregnant could have any positive effects. I'm sure some people think so, and that is fine but I disagree. You aren't supposed to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol either. And most pregnant women don't! I just don't see why chancing it and hoping that nothing happens is a smart decision. I have a very good grasp on the situation I just don't think that sitting here arguing with you because you feel the need to is something I should be doing. 

I have my own opinion, you have yours, let it be.  

bstrangely

melzer14:

AleciaMarie:

Got it. Your only weapon is name calling. 

Look, I'm not saying that smoking weed when pregnant is a good thing to do. I'm simply looking at all evidence and keeping my mind open that the more unorthodox answer might be the right one. And really, all I'm arguing against is the hypocrisy, which you can't seem to grasp well enough to formulate a response too. 

https://akomlandscape.org/2009/04/08/critical-thinking-is-your-umbrella-open/ 

Well in MY opinion, the more unorthodox answer is the wrong one. I don't see how smoking pot while pregnant could have any positive effects. I'm sure some people think so, and that is fine but I disagree. You aren't supposed to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol either. And most pregnant women don't! I just don't see why chancing it and hoping that nothing happens is a smart decision. I have a very good grasp on the situation I just don't think that sitting here arguing with you because you feel the need to is something I should be doing. 

I have my own opinion, you have yours, let it be.  

one more time... no one in this thread said smoking weed was at all positive. i never said it was a smart decision to smoke during pregnancy, and i don't understand why you can't address what has been said, instead of just being rude and childish and setting up these straw men. even your friend who you quoted initially didn't say that:

"I got on my facebook and two of my friends were in an all out fight about if "smoking weed while pregnant is safe for the baby..." 

One of the girls said..."I smoked my ENTIRE pregnancy and I still smoke all the time, that doesn't make me a bad mom and my baby is really smart!""

moreover, you didn't just "disagree", you said:

"I wanted to slap her...people like her should not be allowed to bring children into this world...there should be some kind of IQ test!"

at least own up to what you've said. it sure makes you look obsessive, vindictive and controlling. should women who smoke pot or cigarettes be forced to get abortions? should women who drink occasionally? should they be locked up? and an iq test? really? your opinion is totally abhorrent to anyone who thinks about it for more than a second.

 

skoogirl

bstrangely:

skoogirl:

bstrangely:

skoogirl:

Prenatal cannabis exposure was significantly associated with increased mu receptor expression in the amygdala, reduced kappa receptor mRNA in mediodorsal thalamic nucleus and reduced preproenkephalin expression in the caudal putamen. 

Sample size may be small, but it's a pathology study.  So is this one. I don't understand what these things mean, but they do not sound good and I would not want any child to be exposed to something that is strongly associated with any damage of any kind. 

Also, small foot size might sound funny, but it clearly indicates that they are negatively affected by the drug.

These are abstracts from the national libraries of medicine, whose index can be found here www.pubmed.com If you feel like ordering those studies you're welcome to but the abstracts summarize their findings.

again, these abstracts are not particularly informative. that's why i don't post them unless they are simple enough for a layperson like myself to discuss. you admit that you don't understand these things you're posting, and that's fine, but what you're doing now is being paranoid. there are a lot of things that are associated with "damage" to the fetus, and they aren't illegal, for one thing, and for another thing, women do them all the time. i can list examples like eating sushi or coldcuts without heating them properly. in conversations about those things, i get chastised for providing evidence of harm, because so many women do them without incident, that others are willing to gamble. other examples would be artificial sweeteners, such as the aspartame found in the benefiber i bought and now won't use and the crystal light packets a lot of users here talk about.

why doesn't anyone ever state that she quit talking to someone because they drank crystal light while they were pregnant? it's the reaction that i find so ridiculous. there are tons of things i gave up while pregnant, but i think it's kind of odd to think everyone else has to too, on pain of excommunication.

 

I don't think it's paranoid to avoid something that affects development of parts of the brain just because I don't understand what those parts of the brain are (mu receptor, amygdala, kappa receptor mRNA in mediodorsal thalamic nucleus, reduced preproenkephalin expression in the caudal putamen). 

You asked, begged, for real scientific evidence.  The real studies are hard to understand by layman's terms. What I do understand is that smoking pot is bad for developing babies' brains.

Fine if you disagree with whatever policy that ensues, but you were saying there is no science that backs up the stance that pot is bad for babies.  I attached scientific studies for you to see.

You can continue to rant about legalization, sushi, overreaction, whatever so long as you don't try to persuade people into thinking it's not bad to smoke pot when pregnant.

and there are additional studies that prove that there is no difference in children as they age. if you looked at any of the links i provided, you would have seen this. in fact, there is one study from 1991 that says children had better motor coordination if their mothers smoked:

"The results show no significant differences in developmental testing outcomes between children of marijuana-using and non-using mothers except at 30 days of age when the babies of users had more favourable scores on two clusters of the Brazelton Scales: autonomic stability and reflexes. The developmental scores at ages 4 and 5 years were significantly correlated to certain aspects of the home environment and to regularity of basic school (preschool) attendance."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1957518

i have NEVER, NOT ONCE tried to persuade people that it isn't bad to smoke pot while pregnant. that's one reason i have not posted that particular link previously: i don't think one study is generally proof of anything, and definitely not a greenlight for drug use during pregnancy. i simply don't understand why it's perceived to be so much worse than other things. it is unfortunate that so many people fail to read what i've been saying, and you are no exception. at no point did i say that people should smoke weed when they are pregnant, and i personally do not. 

hope that isn't too complicated for you.

You are very rude. No, it's NOT too complicated for me.  You're ranting and don't make sense.

You DID say that there is no evidence to support the idea that Marijuana is bad and I refuted that with actual studies, which you said don't exist.

I did not say that there aren't studies on both sides of that equation.  There are.  I bet that in some cases the anti-nausea benefits help the fetus more than the negative effects hurt the fetus and that is why it is prescribed for m/s.  Whether or not it's legalized or worse for you than something else, blah, blah, blah. I don't care.  You said there was NO science and I disagreed.

Also, the FDA's website notes parasites as the main reason for concern regarding sushi. https://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/HealthEducators/ucm082539 So does babycenter https://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-safe-to-eat-fish-raw-or-seared-during-pregnancy_2284.bc and FDA gives specific regulations to food purveyors in the freezing of sushi-grade fish for killing parasites.  You're significantly more likely to get salmonella from eating chicken.