@RedBaramid re: tubal ligation. I am not sure if we will be done after this pregnancy but when we know we are done I figure the least DH can do to make it up to me after growing and birthing 3 children (at least) is get a vasectomy haha.
@RedBaramid This conversation has come up with DH and I recently. He volunteered to take one for the team and get a vasectomy if we decide we're done after this one because it seems to be lower risk and an easier procedure. This is of course assuming I don't have to have a CS for any reason but he was wary of the potential complications of a tubal.
There are a lot of logical reasons for us to be done after this one. For one, I'll be AMA when this baby is born and I just worry if I wait a few years or have a "surprise," we'll be pushing 40. I've also heard that MS gets worse with each pregnancy, and I don't think I could handle that! There is still a part of me that is trying to reconcile that with always having wanted a bigger family. We're probably going to see how the remainder of this pregnancy and birth goes before making a decision on anything that permanent. I had some complications last time (postpartum hemorrhage etc) and if anything like that happens again, that will make the decision for us.
Birth stories - try to find some good ones, ladies!
I think the emphasis on how horrid labor is and horrific birth is needs to stop. All you tend to hear is the bad stories. Yes, that exists, and we should be aware. But I think it's important to remember Most women are able to have an uncomplicated vaginal birth. Most women will not need a CS (and some women who do wouldn't have if their birth team had managed labor differently). I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's experiences, just state the facts. I think too many women go into childbirth expecting it to be horrific and either don't know or forget that. The expectation is that it automatically will be terrible, and it's up to a coin flip whether you'll be on the slightly better or the worst end of terrible. And I think it's hard, when everyone else is sharing horror stories, to chime in with "oh, mine was fine. Labored for six hours, first degree tear, healed in a normal amount of time."
An example: Personally, I've been blessed with good sleepers so far. Going down pretty easily and, from birth, one wake up per night to feed and sleeping through by three months, and good nappers. But when everyone else in a given group is saying, "ugh, WHY are they still waking up at night when they're a year old?," "I have to go in there and feed a little and put them down four times before they'll finally take a nap," "I've been doing cry it out for three weeks, and they're still screaming for two hours before falling asleep," "they will not sleep or nap unless they are attached to me," I keep quiet! I just don't say anything about myself and make sympathetic noises. And then people have unrealistic expectations of what infant sleep is like. Sure, it could be awful, but it also could be just fine, but no one expects that.
@hypermusic Given my current liver enzymes being a problem(though at this time it is completely UNRELATED to pre-e because there are no other markers for it at this time), and my history of pre-e, the window of "open to VBAC" is closing quickly. We almost didn't try for a second child because we were concerned with how my body would handle pregnancy, and it's very clear that the answer is "very much so not at all well."
I guess right now I'm at this point where if things finish strong here, I will have a husband and two beautiful babies to love and take care of, and I would hate to lose them. I know so many people don't agree with sterilization, but in my heart of hearts I know that my family wouldn't be complete without ME, and that any amount of children without me is not a family my husband wants for his future. This is kind of an isolating thought to be having right now though.. it feels very sad in a way to be considering it. Even if it feels like the right choice it's kind of bittersweet.
@RedBaramid I am right there with you. I haven't had a full term birth and my first birth was a semi emergency c section at 35 weeks because my liver enzymes were almost 1,000. I didnt get a choice and have never had a choice due to my body and pregnancy. I will be having a tubal to tie up my one tube and H will be getting a vasectomy before this kid is born. We were done after our second, and this baby was a surprise, conceived on birth control.
My body and pregnancy are frenemies at best and sometimes mortal enemies, so I cant begin to fathom having another. I am already AMA, and, while this baby is so loved, I am already struggling with all of this. I get where you're coming from completely. I had pre-e with my first too on top of the Cholestasis. I know it's a lot to consider and know you aren't alone.
When people ask about DD's birth, I am pretty honest with them but I do my best not to add unnecessary fear. Whatever happens section or vaginal birth, it's not going to be easy-- who said it would be easy, right? I really try to empower women to remember we are mostly built to handle this. That's not to say that it's not a struggle for some, but I believe part of a successful birth is knowing now that it's going to be work to labor, have section in some cases, and recover; And, you are strong enough to do it. My birth with DD was a shit ton of work and I pat myself on the back for it. Every woman in this process needs a statue erected in their honor.
@coldlife Your comment reminded me that I totally did labor for less than six hours with DD. I started contracting at around 4:30AM, and she was out by 10:07AM. Fast labors are definitely a thing, too!
@RedBaramid You know what’s the right decision for your health and for your family and it sounds like this is the right choice.
DH will most likely get a vasectomy when the time comes. I’m just not sure when that will be.
*TW* I was always sure I only wanted two children, but going through my losses made me question that. However, I don’t think I can handle going through another loss, so it makes me afraid to try again. I’m also 35 now, so the difficulty and risks of pregnancy will only get higher. It’s just sad thinking about this being my last child.
I’m a believer that if I have been on birth control all of these years and will still have my period after having my tubes tied, that my husband can get a snip and I better still have the chance to get pregnant, even though I don’t plan on leaving/cheating on my husband. I don’t want to have my period for no reason. I have a mom friend who already has her tubal schedule after her child’s birth. I’m over here thinking that men should do their part and get snipped and call it a day. I already told my husband and after our third it will be awhile until I make the call for him to get it done. I could have a basketball team of kids if money wasn’t an issue. So I just want to make sure that heart knows that we are done before I make the call.
Married: August 2012
TTC #1: July 2015
BFP 1: October 30, 2015; EDD: July 6, 2016- Team Pink
@blackgirlmagic I’m right there with you. I’ve done all the work of preventing and having babies for the 14 years DH and I have been together. It’s his turn next.
Question: any recommendations for books about Mommy being pregnant for young children? I'll look into anything, but I think what I specifically want is something that's pretty factual. "This is how the baby grows in Mommy's belly. This is what the baby looks like at 4/5/6 months." Nothing overly graphic but somewhat realistic illustrations that show how the baby grows "Now they have hair. They're getting bigger. This is the umbilical cord, which is how they get food." That sort of thing.
@ziggymama06 I'm going to go with a repeat c- section.
I'm sorry for sharing a birth story (especially a less than ideal one). I guess I was on the opposite end of the spectrum as a FTM and didn't hear the stories. I didn't mean to add stress or anxiety to anyone's pregnancy. My c- sections and recoveries were both pretty smooth, though!
@RedBaramid I can understand how you feel! I would love to have a larger family as well, but pregnancies that are tough and the risks involved with
@coldlife I don't have any book ideas, but the information and 3D (somewhat interactive) images of the baby each week on the bump app might be something you could share.
@ziggymama06 I'm going to go with a repeat c- section.
I'm sorry for sharing a birth story (especially a less than ideal one). I guess I was on the opposite end of the spectrum as a FTM and didn't hear the stories. I didn't mean to add stress or anxiety to anyone's pregnancy. My c- sections and recoveries were both pretty smooth, though! >snip<
Oh goodness, I would never try to stop anyone from sharing their story, that wasn't my point. I think it is important to hear a variety. I do think the general perspective on childbirth in the US reflects mostly hearing bad stories - it reflects fear and anxiety. I want everyone to tell their stories so people get an accurate perspective on what birth is like. If everyone tells their story, then women get an accurate picture of what it's like - yes, you have chances of having a very negative experience with things going wrong, but you also have a good chance of having a mostly uncomplicated birth. And then women can also use what they learn to inform their own choices.
I agree with @coldlife No two pregnancies or deliveries are exactly the same. I think it's wise to keep any open mind to learn about other perspectives and prepare yourself for possibilities.
I didn't have a birth plan with DD. I didn't even really know what a doula was at the time. I went to the hospital hoping that I could give birth vaginally and without an epidural but was prepared to be disappointed. To me, as long as the doctors/nurses communicated with me and I could advocate for myself (or DH would if I couldn't), I was cool. With ridiculous contractions, I actually decided I wanted an epidural! But then, I ended up not being able to have it because my platelet count was low. I could've still had it but DH and I agreed it wasn't worth the risk. The nurses at the hospital were everything to my labor. I will never forget it and I gushed over each of them after it was over.
@RedBaramid I know very little about tubals, but it sounds like you feel your family is complete, for many reasons, and this would be an opportunity to check that box and move forward without needing to schedule a separate procedure or deal with the uncertainty of other methods of birth control. I support all of that.
I know there's always the risk of changing your mind down the road, but that's just life. We make decisions in the face of uncertainty that we're then committed to for the long haul (having a(nother) child is one of those decisions, for that matter!). Wishing you clarity as you think and talk through all of this over the upcoming months
I certainly did not mean to make anyone feel bad for sharing their less than ideal birth stories! As a FTM, it was helpful for me to be prepared with knowledge of all possibilities vs be thrown into it blind. In the moment, it was less scary than I thought it would be.
@RedBaramid no personal experience, but my best friend recently had a Laparoscopic tubal ligation a few months after delivering her second baby vaginally. She was so sure she was done (really difficult pregnancies) she made the decision and discussed with her doctor while still pregnant. They agreed if she needed a c-section they would do it then or if not then do it later. She said the procedure itself and recovery was super easy.
She also made her husband get a vasectomy because she said even a 0.01% chance of getting pregnant again wasn’t good enough for her 🤣
@coldlife I have a book that is a great big coffee table book, amazing illustrations! So while I can't say it's necessarily "for kids," it's a great resource.
The Pregnant Body https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10853213-the-pregnant-body-book
Not sure personally, but maybe there are some good recommendations here? https://sexedrescue.com/childrens-books-about-pregnancy/
No matter how smooth or complicated a birth you have, it will be traumatic. I can’t think of a single other circumstance where your life changes so quickly and there is so much joy and pain all at once. I know people who had horrific birth stories and can’t wait to get pregnant again, and I know people who had easy boring birth stories that are traumatized by it years later. I think it’s smart to prepare for it to be emotionally hard, whether that’s reading all the stories or reading none for you, or whatever else you need to do. Please assume that you will have some level of PPD/PPA and work with you doctor/therapist/doula/etc. to plan for it and later address it. It’s part of the birth process and will help you come to terms with how it all goes down. But you are all do great given whatever circumstances are thrown at you so don’t stress now if you can avoid it. Plenty of other stressing to be done once baby is here.
My daughter's birth was long and hard. I didn't get pregnant for a long time in part because it was a bit traumatic. However, I'm always telling my daughter "you can do things that are hard" and I think that's the mantra I will use for the delivery too. I can do things that are hard!!
**Insert my husband's stupid joke here.
Married July 2014 DD born June 2016 Second due August 2020 (team green!)
Dh is too afraid of a vasectomy and I know I am done having kids. I know 100% this is my last child. I'm going to ask if it can be done after I give birth so I can recover in the hospital.
Pregnancy #1 DD 08.30.2007 Pregnancy #2 Natural Miscarriage at 6 weeks 03/2014 Due date 11/9/2014 Pregnancy #3 DS 02.23.2015 Pregnancy #4 Missed Miscarriage at 11 weeks 11/2018 Due date 5/22/2019 Pregnancy #5 Positive test 12/11/2019 Due Date 8/17/2020
@RedBaramid and @psychobutthead since this pregnancy was a wonderful surprise and we were sure we were done last time MH will be getting a vasectomy. If I can push three babies out of my body he can sit on the couch for 3 days and ice his stuff. Speaking of that, we need to get an appointment scheduled
@RedBaramid considering all goes well I'll be getting my tubes tied at the end of this pregnancy as well. Same as you I'll have 2 babies, a husband and only be 30 years old. But I only ever wanted 2 kids, esp if I had a boy & girl. My husband initially wanted more but after our experience with my son he's decided on 2 as well. Also you can still have kids with IVF or a reversal later if you just REALLY want more. And of course adopt.
STM DS (June 18 BMB vet) Married Aug 2016 Me 30 / DH 34 CS scheduled 7/26-8/12 Due 8/30
@chrissyw0618, I'm not saying this to call you out. I've seen this elsewhere on TB. More just a PSA.
A lot of people seem to think a tubal or vasectomy are reversible. Yes, sometimes they can be. But there is no guarantee, and they are considered permanent forms of BC. I personally know someone who was unable to get a V reversed, despite multiple doctors and second/third attempts, when they decided they wanted more children.
Reversals can be expensive. And fertility treatments and adoption DEFINITELY are. And I've watched friends go through "cheap" foster system adoptions. it takes a special kind of person to deal with all the traumas and psychological issues that can crop up in those children.
Not trying to change anyone's mind here. I'm just a big proponent of informed consent.
WSS. Counting on a successful reversal is tempting fate. <b> "There's always IVF," </b>just feels like a gut punch to someone who would have loved <i>absolutely nothing </i>more than just to have their own natural fertility as a couple restored, and never to have been faced with the all or nothing decision of IVF or no babies. It's not a path anyone with normal fertility would simply choose.
...And if anyone else keeps perpetuating the "just adopt" myth like it's not frought with its own set of challenges and huge expense - THAT MAY BE TOTALLY WORTH IT!!!! - But <i>not</i> easy.
None of these things should be taken lightly, IMHO.
@coldlife Well stated! We are considering a tubal here because I am considered a high risk pregnancy, and things are not exactly going smoothly. It's a hard choice considering we originally (like when we got married, before DD was born) thought we wanted 3-4 kids. Reality has struck us hard and heavy. My body does not like pregnancy, we are not friends. Continuing to have children risks leaving the one(s) (God willing this baby comes to us healthy and strong at the end of this) I have motherless. It is an extreme option and one I think should only truly be considered by people who are ready to commit to not having any more children. I watched one of my closest friends FIGHT to become pregnant with her son. I KNOW she is so happy for me that I'm having another desired child, but I also know she's upset that I am so easily able to become pregnant (even if the pregnancies themselves are very much so less than ideal and safe). I can't imagine the pain and frustration of fighting for a wanted pregnancy the way she(and several of you) had to. The pain we are going through making this hard choice to end my fertility is also really isolating. It's like grieving the future while trying to live in the moment. I'm working on coming to terms with this being my last pregnancy, with this being our last child, and I pray all the time that this pregnancy goes as smoothly as it can and that this child comes to me healthy so that I can be at peace with the hard choice we are making. I know in my heart this is the best choice for us though, my husband doesn't want a family without me, and I don't want to leave him with children who have lost a mother. I don't want to leave him without a partner.
(As a note to all the other ladies here looking at this hard choice, so much love to you guys for your openness and support. This really feels like a rock and hard place. To all the ladies who are supporting us in this hard choice but are not here yourselves, thank you so much too.)
What @RedBaramid said. **TW This is my 8th pregnancy.** I don't enter this decision lightly. My only live birth pregnancies have resulted in premature birth. I'm a very high risk pregnancy and by the end of my second trimester, it's a delicate balancing act of how sick can I be while I let the baby stay in as long as possible. It's a scary thing knowing that I put my literal life in my doctor's hands in an attempt to have another baby. My husband and I have a deal that he stays with the baby no matter what. These are things that people with normal pregnancies don't have to think about. It's hard to know that if something happens to severely complicate things that I could be alone except for my medical team, but it's the only way I will feel confident. By the time birth has happened for me, I have been through literal hell. This pregnancy was a complete surprise, I was going to my dr to talk about a hysterectomy when I found out I was pregnant. We are all a little nervous about what a third pregnancy may do to me.
@redbaramid, @wildrainbow, you don't have to explain yourself to me! Like I said, I just want people to make a good decision for themselves with all the information available. And I specifically wanted to correct the information about reversals, because it's not that simple like the pill or an IUD.
Medical issues definitely make a difference in these situations!
Re: Ask a STM+ February
I think the emphasis on how horrid labor is and horrific birth is needs to stop. All you tend to hear is the bad stories. Yes, that exists, and we should be aware. But I think it's important to remember Most women are able to have an uncomplicated vaginal birth. Most women will not need a CS (and some women who do wouldn't have if their birth team had managed labor differently). I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's experiences, just state the facts. I think too many women go into childbirth expecting it to be horrific and either don't know or forget that. The expectation is that it automatically will be terrible, and it's up to a coin flip whether you'll be on the slightly better or the worst end of terrible. And I think it's hard, when everyone else is sharing horror stories, to chime in with "oh, mine was fine. Labored for six hours, first degree tear, healed in a normal amount of time."
An example:
Personally, I've been blessed with good sleepers so far. Going down pretty easily and, from birth, one wake up per night to feed and sleeping through by three months, and good nappers. But when everyone else in a given group is saying, "ugh, WHY are they still waking up at night when they're a year old?," "I have to go in there and feed a little and put them down four times before they'll finally take a nap," "I've been doing cry it out for three weeks, and they're still screaming for two hours before falling asleep," "they will not sleep or nap unless they are attached to me," I keep quiet! I just don't say anything about myself and make sympathetic noises. And then people have unrealistic expectations of what infant sleep is like. Sure, it could be awful, but it also could be just fine, but no one expects that.
I guess right now I'm at this point where if things finish strong here, I will have a husband and two beautiful babies to love and take care of, and I would hate to lose them. I know so many people don't agree with sterilization, but in my heart of hearts I know that my family wouldn't be complete without ME, and that any amount of children without me is not a family my husband wants for his future. This is kind of an isolating thought to be having right now though.. it feels very sad in a way to be considering it. Even if it feels like the right choice it's kind of bittersweet.
My body and pregnancy are frenemies at best and sometimes mortal enemies, so I cant begin to fathom having another. I am already AMA, and, while this baby is so loved, I am already struggling with all of this. I get where you're coming from completely. I had pre-e with my first too on top of the Cholestasis. I know it's a lot to consider and know you aren't alone.
My birth with DD was a shit ton of work and I pat myself on the back for it. Every woman in this process needs a statue erected in their honor.
***TW***
****trigger warning****
1 LC, girl 5 years old
TTC #2 Summer 2017
BFP 1/5/2018, MC (D & E) 2/23/2018
TTCAL May 2018
BFP 9/20/2018, MC (D & E) 11/16/2018
*TW* I was always sure I only wanted two children, but going through my losses made me question that. However, I don’t think I can handle going through another loss, so it makes me afraid to try again. I’m also 35 now, so the difficulty and risks of pregnancy will only get higher. It’s just sad thinking about this being my last child.
I'm sorry for sharing a birth story (especially a less than ideal one). I guess I was on the opposite end of the spectrum as a FTM and didn't hear the stories. I didn't mean to add stress or anxiety to anyone's pregnancy. My c- sections and recoveries were both pretty smooth, though!
@RedBaramid I can understand how you feel! I would love to have a larger family as well, but pregnancies that are tough and the risks involved with
@coldlife I don't have any book ideas, but the information and 3D (somewhat interactive) images of the baby each week on the bump app might be something you could share.
ETA: phrasing.
No two pregnancies or deliveries are exactly the same. I think it's wise to keep any open mind to learn about other perspectives and prepare yourself for possibilities.
I didn't have a birth plan with DD. I didn't even really know what a doula was at the time. I went to the hospital hoping that I could give birth vaginally and without an epidural but was prepared to be disappointed. To me, as long as the doctors/nurses communicated with me and I could advocate for myself (or DH would if I couldn't), I was cool.
With ridiculous contractions, I actually decided I wanted an epidural! But then, I ended up not being able to have it because my platelet count was low. I could've still had it but DH and I agreed it wasn't worth the risk. The nurses at the hospital were everything to my labor. I will never forget it and I gushed over each of them after it was over.
***TW***
****trigger warning****
1 LC, girl 5 years old
TTC #2 Summer 2017
BFP 1/5/2018, MC (D & E) 2/23/2018
TTCAL May 2018
BFP 9/20/2018, MC (D & E) 11/16/2018
I know there's always the risk of changing your mind down the road, but that's just life. We make decisions in the face of uncertainty that we're then committed to for the long haul (having a(nother) child is one of those decisions, for that matter!). Wishing you clarity as you think and talk through all of this over the upcoming months
She also made her husband get a vasectomy because she said even a 0.01% chance of getting pregnant again wasn’t good enough for her 🤣
The Pregnant Body
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10853213-the-pregnant-body-book
Not sure personally, but maybe there are some good recommendations here?
https://sexedrescue.com/childrens-books-about-pregnancy/
**Insert my husband's stupid joke here.
DD born June 2016
Second due August 2020 (team green!)
Dh is too afraid of a vasectomy and I know I am done having kids. I know 100% this is my last child. I'm going to ask if it can be done after I give birth so I can recover in the hospital.
Pregnancy #2 Natural Miscarriage at 6 weeks 03/2014 Due date 11/9/2014
Pregnancy #3 DS 02.23.2015
Pregnancy #4 Missed Miscarriage at 11 weeks 11/2018 Due date 5/22/2019
Pregnancy #5 Positive test 12/11/2019 Due Date 8/17/2020
Married Aug 2016 Me 30
CS scheduled 7/26-8/12 Due 8/30
A lot of people seem to think a tubal or vasectomy are reversible. Yes, sometimes they can be. But there is no guarantee, and they are considered permanent forms of BC. I personally know someone who was unable to get a V reversed, despite multiple doctors and second/third attempts, when they decided they wanted more children.
According to this link, only half of women who get a T reversed will become pregnant. https://www.cigna.com/individuals-families/health-wellness/hw/medical-topics/tubal-ligation-reversal-hw202539 And according to this study, about 3/4 of the women got pregnant, but only half delivered. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6333701/
With a V, the best I could find was this link, which indicated about 3/4 of people who have a reversal go on to father a child. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854082/
Reversals can be expensive. And fertility treatments and adoption DEFINITELY are. And I've watched friends go through "cheap" foster system adoptions. it takes a special kind of person to deal with all the traumas and psychological issues that can crop up in those children.
Not trying to change anyone's mind here. I'm just a big proponent of informed consent.
...And if anyone else keeps perpetuating the "just adopt" myth like it's not frought with its own set of challenges and huge expense - THAT MAY BE TOTALLY WORTH IT!!!! - But <i>not</i> easy.
None of these things should be taken lightly, IMHO.
(As a note to all the other ladies here looking at this hard choice, so much love to you guys for your openness and support. This really feels like a rock and hard place. To all the ladies who are supporting us in this hard choice but are not here yourselves, thank you so much too.)
Medical issues definitely make a difference in these situations!