I do not and will not own firearms. I won’t take them away from someone else but they will not be part of my household inventory ever.
I respect that. Owning firearms is a right, but it’s not a right that everyone should necessarily exercise. Aside from the obvious (violent criminals, mentally unstable people,) anyone who isn’t comfortable with guns and doesn’t plan to become comfortable and educated regarding the safe handling and keeping of guns should not have guns. As long as you’re not trying to take that right away from others, it’s fine to not want any yourself.
To those who are against all toy guns; does that include laser tag and places like DartSide for nerf guns?
For me it does. I’ve never heard of Dartside, but if it’s anything like laser tag then the whole point of the game is to shoot other people. I have a real issue with that.
Also, nerf guns in general just seem like a bad idea. My brothers had them and all they ever did was shoot me and each other. With all the other types of toys and games out there something meant for “play” shooting just seems unnecessary.
married 7.11.09
Me: 31 DH: 36
DD (14) and DS (11) adopted from US Foster care December 2016 BFP April 24, 2018 | EDD December 29, 2018
I think our gun culture is horrifying and I happily vote to limit gun ownership in this country.
We lost someone to a gun accident in our family. At the hand of someone who was “raised around guns, educated, taught all the safe handling rules, etc etc etc.” it still happened. i think anyone who believes they can prevent gun accidents or gun violence by parenting and teaching is foolish and naive.
@julesf817 Would you say that anyone who believes they can prevent car accidents or reckless driving by parenting and teaching is foolish and naive? I'm sorry that your family suffered a loss because of a gun accident, but I don't think that teaching someone gun safety and responsible ownership is naive. People drive recklessly and behave violently on the road even if they've received proper driver education. Someone who tends towards violence will behave violently with a gun in their hand or not regardless of proper training. It's unfortunate that gun violence occurs, but I would say that proper education about gun safety by responsible gun owners is definitely an appropriate method to help prevent accidents.
Having said that, I also would support measures to limit gun ownership. I do not think the right to own a gun should be completely taken away, but I agree with heavier regulations and more thorough background checks. I think it is way too easy, especially in the area of the country where I live, to buy and trade guns and other weapons.
Off topic, but wanted to point out: It's very refreshing that this group can discuss political issues in a civil and respectful manner. It is clear that the group does listen to each other and isn't trying to just convince the other person of their opinion. Wish that kind of dialogue was more common these days (with politicians in particular)!
Off topic, but wanted to point out: It's very refreshing that this group can discuss political issues in a civil and respectful manner. It is clear that the group does listen to each other and isn't trying to just convince the other person of their opinion. Wish that kind of dialogue was more common these days (with politicians in particular)!
I had the same thought. Like seriously, the fact that we discussed gun rights in America in a civil and respectful manner gives me hope that we're not all doomed to petty partisan politics.
@katethemom to play devils advocate, while vehicles are absolutely capable of and frequently cause accidental deaths, their intention as an object is not to kill. That is the primary intent of a gun. And it is naive to think you can prevent death by either object. Can you lessen the possibility that it will happen? Absolutely. But can you be sure it won’t happen despite the precautions you take? No, you can’t. Especially when children are in the mix.
In New Jersey 10 year olds are allowed to hunt using firearms. I’m of the opinion that a 10 year old can ever be considered intelligent / conscious / responsible enough to safely use a firearm. The majority of accidental deaths of children by firearms are caused by other children who have access to firearms. And it only takes one slip up (forgetting to lock a gun cabinet, leaving a key accessible, etc) for an accident to happen.
That all being said - I promise I am not a ‘take all of your guns away’ person. I do believe there is such a thing as responsible gun ownership. I just believe that even responsible gun ownership has a level of unpredictability to it. And that’s why I personally will choose to have a gun free home (among other reasons). The majority of my family are gun owners and even that makes me nervous especially knowing that DD will be spending a lot of time there.
Me: 28 DH: 26 Married: November 2015 TTC#1: January 2016 BFP #1: 5/02/16 - MC: 5/27/16 BFP #2: 10/06/16: 6 - EDD: 06/20/17 DD Born 06/23/17 TFAS: April 2018 BFP #3: 03/21/18 - CP BFP #4: 04/23/18 - EDD 01/04/19
Slightly OT, but still related to guns, I had an older gentleman I met down at the state Capitol tell me he didn’t think it was a good idea for women to have guns or concealed carry permits because “most women don’t have enough guts to pull the trigger if they were ever in a situation where they needed to to protect themselves or their family. That’s more dangerous than not having a gun in the first place.”
I responded, “Let me get this straight, you think that if a mother’s children are being threatened or in danger, she’s going to hesitate? Because I’m telling you right now, gun or no gun, a mother whose children are in danger will do whatever is necessary to protect her children without hesitation.”
Slightly OT, but still related to guns, I had an older gentleman I met down at the state Capitol tell me he didn’t think it was a good idea for women to have guns or concealed carry permits because “most women don’t have enough guts to pull the trigger if they were ever in a situation where they needed to to protect themselves or their family. That’s more dangerous than not having a gun in the first place.”
I responded, “Let me get this straight, you think that if a mother’s children are being threatened or in danger, she’s going to hesitate? Because I’m telling you right now, gun or no gun, a mother whose children are in danger will do whatever is necessary to protect her children without hesitation.”
Wow, what that guy said is just really sexist. I'm not a fan of guns, and personally I don't want to own one, but I think there are a lot of reasons why women would want to have concealed carry permits for their protection.
And I agree with whoever said here that 10 year olds shouldn't be able to use guns. I definitely think that you should be an adult to own (or use) a gun. I mean, even the smartest, most well-behaved children are still children. Your brain isn't even fully finished developing until you're in your 20s.
Anyways, this all made me think of something DH and his friend were talking about. They had an idea for putting some sort of GPS tracking device inside guns. That way, if your gun ever gets stolen, you can track where it is. They even had the idea of what if you could also "lock" your gun (the trigger or safety or whatever), remotely, so that if it gets stolen (or your kid gets their hands on it), it can't actually be shot. I don't know how realistic that is, but it would be a really cool way to use technology to improve gun safety.
@BitterBetty12 said it better than I could have, so basically, what she said!
Mainly what i meant is parents who say “my kid would never! I taught them xyz!” Are being naive. Our family member’s parent would have have said the exact same thing.
I’m just happy to live in a state with some of the toughest gun laws and some of the lowest rates of gun violence.
I get what you're saying @jules817. It is naive to think that something could never happen just because you teach your children the right way to handle guns. But that was my main point in bringing up vehicle safety as a comparison. You wouldn't not teach your children to drive properly because they might one day go on a joy ride and drive recklessly - behavior that could potentially cause harm to (or even kill) someone else. If a family decides to have guns in their home, I don't think they would not teach their children gun safety because they might one day mishandle a gun or use it irresponsibly. I would say it would be more irresponsible and naive to not teach them. But yes, it would also be naive to think that your child would never do something wrong or make a mistake with the knowledge you share with them.
Along the same lines, I do think a 10 year old is too young to be entrusted to use a gun on their own. But with parental supervision, I don't see an issue. I mean, that's basically just parenting in general. We teach, we supervise, and then we let them fly on their own when they're old enough.
@katethemom my issue with a child that young using a gun at all is that children are accident prone and honestly unpredictable. In my opinion, putting a deadly weapon in the hands of a child (even when they’ve had training and supervision) is just an accident waiting to happen. And I’m saying this as someone who grew up with guns in the house and who’s own brother started hunting and using firearms at the age of 10. It’s just a choice I personally would never make. I understand that if you have a weapon in the house, it is important to teach your children how to be safe around it. But I don’t think that has to include teaching them how to use it. To your point about vehicles, we teach children how to be safe around cars - but we don’t teach them how to drive one or trust them to do so on the road. Why do we trust them with a deadly weapon?
Me: 28 DH: 26 Married: November 2015 TTC#1: January 2016 BFP #1: 5/02/16 - MC: 5/27/16 BFP #2: 10/06/16: 6 - EDD: 06/20/17 DD Born 06/23/17 TFAS: April 2018 BFP #3: 03/21/18 - CP BFP #4: 04/23/18 - EDD 01/04/19
To those of you who are against gun toys (nerf, water, etc.) here's something to think about. Keeping toy guns from your house does not stop them from thinking about them, hearing about them, or playing with them elsewhere. I also know that some kids will use other objects in place of guns to pretend they are guns if they don't have an actual gun. Wouldn't it be better they learn about guns according to your morals and values, rather than learn from friends or elsewhere?
Also, from a therapy standpoint (I've done a lot of play therapy in the past) guns are important in treatment rooms as just an open option (they're not encouraged to play with them, but they're around in case the child goes looking). Kids can gravitate towards darker or dangerous toys as a way to express emotions, and this is separate from them actually USING guns in real life. Just because kids want to play with guns, doesn't mean they want to kill things when they grow up.
I fully intend to allow nerf or water guns in our house, though not real looking guns. They will learn to use them appropriately, and if they're using them to be pretend guns, i will advise them that we don't point guns at people, and that we always need to be aware of where our finger is and to be safe. They're going to hear about guns, I would rather them learn about them properly from me.
Ok I get what you mean @katethemom I wasn’t saying that I don’t think it’s worth teaching gun safety. I would hope anyone who keeps guns in their home teaches and practices gun safety. My point was that the only way to make 100% sure your child isn’t going to die from a gun you keep in your home is by not keeping a gun in your home. And it seems far more common that people die from the guns in their homes than they do from whatever they’re hoping to protect themselves from.
I don’t want to ban guns, just heavily regulate them. And I’ll take my chances with the bogey man before I’d ever have one in my house.
@jules817 I'm sure you're right about that. It's far more likely that someone would be harmed by a member of their own family than by an intruder. I suppose having a firearm for some people just provides some peace of mind, though.
@BitterBetty12 I won't argue about children being accident prone. That's certainly true. I think it really just depends on the individual child, though. What may be appropriate for some 10-year-olds may not be so for others. But I think as parents to our own children, we should be able to discern when a child or teenager may be ready to learn certain skills or take on certain responsibilities. I certainly wouldn't allow my own child to handle a firearm unless I was confident that they were mature enough to take it seriously and capable of handling a dangerous weapon.
I agree that it depends on a fair judgement call about an individual child's maturity and level of responsibility, @katethemom. I also think the location and type of weapon matters. There is a big difference in my mind, for example, between a 10 year old in the woods with a powerful hunting rifle even with parental supervision, versus a 10 year old at a range shooting a .22 with a parent standing in the same lane at the time.
Also, in the appropriate context and with supervision, I think actually shooting a weapon could better convey the idea that guns aren't toys than all the lectures in the world.
That said, I do feel strongly that even if a child is well-trained in gun safety, they should still never have unsupervised access to guns. Only the adults in the household should be able to open the gun safe. You can also buy gun safes now that can send an alert to your phone if there is an unsuccessful attempt to enter the safe (e.g, if a kid is trying to guess the password).
@sweetyjenj Choosing not to have toy guns in the house doesn’t mean my kids won’t be taught gun safety. There is no way I’d be able to keep them from guns completely without also keeping them away from my parents and siblings completely, and that’s not going to happen.
My decision to not allow guns of any kind in my home is because I don’t like them, I’m not comfortable around them, and due to past experiences I know I wouldn’t react well to my kid shooting even nerf bullets or water around me. That is something I will need to trust my dad and brothers to teach if/when my kid gets curious. It’s what we have done with DD and DS and it has worked well.
From the therapy standpoint, yes, toy guns can be a tool. They are definitely not the only tool. We have done a ton of family therapy and therapeutic training as parents of traumatized children and kids with dark thoughts or memories have many ways of showing signs without needing guns or other toy weapons. It’s possible I’m overly cautious due to my experiences with guns and my kids’ past experience with violence, but I’m okay with that.
married 7.11.09
Me: 31 DH: 36
DD (14) and DS (11) adopted from US Foster care December 2016 BFP April 24, 2018 | EDD December 29, 2018
I'm shocked that they would give the gun back and not charge that person with something. They make it sound like it's not a big deal that they left a loaded gun in a place where children could pick it up.
Let me preface this UO by saying, I actually didn't vote for President Trump. (I voted for Constitution Party candidate Darrell Castle,) but pardoning these ranchers is something he's done that I fully support and gained him a little bit of my respect.
The land's rights issue has been so twisted and misrepresented over the years; those ranchers were, and are in the right. Grazing rights are like mineral rights, or any other full or usage ownership of land; the government can't seize it without just compensation and demonstrated need. The land does not now, nor has it ever, belonged to the BLM. The BLM was supposed to help the ranchers manage the land by dealing with water drainage issues, fire hazards, building small bridges when needed, etc, and in exchange, the ranchers collectively paid fees to compensate the BLM for their services. Now people call it "BLM land" as if it belongs to the BLM. And the BLM no longer helps the ranchers, but harasses them. No wonder the ranchers stopped paying the fees. The fees are not a tax paid by the ranchers as some sort of rental fee for "BLM land." It was a fee they paid for the help the BLM is supposed to be giving the ranchers on the land the ranchers have owned the grazing rights to for generations.
Re: UO (unpopular opinion) 7/5
I lost my angels 07/2010, 04/2017, 10/2017
Meimsx no more
Also, nerf guns in general just seem like a bad idea. My brothers had them and all they ever did was shoot me and each other. With all the other types of toys and games out there something meant for “play” shooting just seems unnecessary.
BFP April 24, 2018 | EDD December 29, 2018
We lost someone to a gun accident in our family. At the hand of someone who was “raised around guns, educated, taught all the safe handling rules, etc etc etc.” it still happened. i think anyone who believes they can prevent gun accidents or gun violence by parenting and teaching is foolish and naive.
Having said that, I also would support measures to limit gun ownership. I do not think the right to own a gun should be completely taken away, but I agree with heavier regulations and more thorough background checks. I think it is way too easy, especially in the area of the country where I live, to buy and trade guns and other weapons.
I lost my angels 07/2010, 04/2017, 10/2017
Meimsx no more
In New Jersey 10 year olds are allowed to hunt using firearms. I’m of the opinion that a 10 year old can ever be considered intelligent / conscious / responsible enough to safely use a firearm. The majority of accidental deaths of children by firearms are caused by other children who have access to firearms. And it only takes one slip up (forgetting to lock a gun cabinet, leaving a key accessible, etc) for an accident to happen.
That all being said - I promise I am not a ‘take all of your guns away’ person. I do believe there is such a thing as responsible gun ownership. I just believe that even responsible gun ownership has a level of unpredictability to it. And that’s why I personally will choose to have a gun free home (among other reasons). The majority of my family are gun owners and even that makes me nervous especially knowing that DD will be spending a lot of time there.
Married: November 2015
TTC#1: January 2016
BFP #1: 5/02/16 - MC: 5/27/16
BFP #2: 10/06/16: 6 - EDD: 06/20/17
DD Born 06/23/17
TFAS: April 2018
BFP #3: 03/21/18 - CP
BFP #4: 04/23/18 - EDD 01/04/19
I responded, “Let me get this straight, you think that if a mother’s children are being threatened or in danger, she’s going to hesitate? Because I’m telling you right now, gun or no gun, a mother whose children are in danger will do whatever is necessary to protect her children without hesitation.”
And I agree with whoever said here that 10 year olds shouldn't be able to use guns. I definitely think that you should be an adult to own (or use) a gun. I mean, even the smartest, most well-behaved children are still children. Your brain isn't even fully finished developing until you're in your 20s.
Anyways, this all made me think of something DH and his friend were talking about. They had an idea for putting some sort of GPS tracking device inside guns. That way, if your gun ever gets stolen, you can track where it is. They even had the idea of what if you could also "lock" your gun (the trigger or safety or whatever), remotely, so that if it gets stolen (or your kid gets their hands on it), it can't actually be shot. I don't know how realistic that is, but it would be a really cool way to use technology to improve gun safety.
Mainly what i meant is parents who say “my kid would never! I taught them xyz!” Are being naive. Our family member’s parent would have have said the exact same thing.
I’m just happy to live in a state with some of the toughest gun laws and some of the lowest rates of gun violence.
Along the same lines, I do think a 10 year old is too young to be entrusted to use a gun on their own. But with parental supervision, I don't see an issue. I mean, that's basically just parenting in general. We teach, we supervise, and then we let them fly on their own when they're old enough.
Married: November 2015
TTC#1: January 2016
BFP #1: 5/02/16 - MC: 5/27/16
BFP #2: 10/06/16: 6 - EDD: 06/20/17
DD Born 06/23/17
TFAS: April 2018
BFP #3: 03/21/18 - CP
BFP #4: 04/23/18 - EDD 01/04/19
Married: 8/11/2007
DD: Born 2/3/17
BFP#2: 5/3, EDD 1/10/19
I don’t want to ban guns, just heavily regulate them. And I’ll take my chances with the bogey man before I’d ever have one in my house.
@BitterBetty12 I won't argue about children being accident prone. That's certainly true. I think it really just depends on the individual child, though. What may be appropriate for some 10-year-olds may not be so for others. But I think as parents to our own children, we should be able to discern when a child or teenager may be ready to learn certain skills or take on certain responsibilities. I certainly wouldn't allow my own child to handle a firearm unless I was confident that they were mature enough to take it seriously and capable of handling a dangerous weapon.
Also, in the appropriate context and with supervision, I think actually shooting a weapon could better convey the idea that guns aren't toys than all the lectures in the world.
That said, I do feel strongly that even if a child is well-trained in gun safety, they should still never have unsupervised access to guns. Only the adults in the household should be able to open the gun safe. You can also buy gun safes now that can send an alert to your phone if there is an unsuccessful attempt to enter the safe (e.g, if a kid is trying to guess the password).
My decision to not allow guns of any kind in my home is because I don’t like them, I’m not comfortable around them, and due to past experiences I know I wouldn’t react well to my kid shooting even nerf bullets or water around me. That is something I will need to trust my dad and brothers to teach if/when my kid gets curious. It’s what we have done with DD and DS and it has worked well.
From the therapy standpoint, yes, toy guns can be a tool. They are definitely not the only tool. We have done a ton of family therapy and therapeutic training as parents of traumatized children and kids with dark thoughts or memories have many ways of showing signs without needing guns or other toy weapons. It’s possible I’m overly cautious due to my experiences with guns and my kids’ past experience with violence, but I’m okay with that.
BFP April 24, 2018 | EDD December 29, 2018
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46358352&nid=148&title=a-tragedy-waiting-to-happen-loaded-gun-found-in-womens-bathroom-at-utah-aquarium
I lost my angels 07/2010, 04/2017, 10/2017
Meimsx no more
The land's rights issue has been so twisted and misrepresented over the years; those ranchers were, and are in the right. Grazing rights are like mineral rights, or any other full or usage ownership of land; the government can't seize it without just compensation and demonstrated need. The land does not now, nor has it ever, belonged to the BLM. The BLM was supposed to help the ranchers manage the land by dealing with water drainage issues, fire hazards, building small bridges when needed, etc, and in exchange, the ranchers collectively paid fees to compensate the BLM for their services. Now people call it "BLM land" as if it belongs to the BLM. And the BLM no longer helps the ranchers, but harasses them. No wonder the ranchers stopped paying the fees. The fees are not a tax paid by the ranchers as some sort of rental fee for "BLM land." It was a fee they paid for the help the BLM is supposed to be giving the ranchers on the land the ranchers have owned the grazing rights to for generations.
https://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=46358469&title=trump-pardons-2-ranchers-whose-case-sparked-land-debate