September 2018 IVF ER

mkr_0128

That's nice it's something @blackhottamales! It is scary to be in other stressful situations while going through this, because we know IF is stressful enough itself! 

wishiwaspreggo

@funkykey - I'm really hoping the procedure we did (INVOcell) will expand and provide access to more couples who can't swing IVF financially. We couldn't, I know that. My first RE quoted me at $20,000 for regular IVF and $25-$30K for IVF with PGS and eSET (selective embryo transfer, just one). That's without medication. They said that would tack on an additional $4-$5K. With that much money I could buy a wonderful, spacious brand new car. INVOcell, while still expensive, was $5500 for the procedure and an additionally $3K in testing, trial transfer, medications, and office visits. After paying for freeze we'll have spent a bit less than $10K. Still a big hit to the wallet but we can at least afford it. Fertility coverage really should be mandatory. It's outrageous.

@zamora_spin - I'm glad to hear you're tolerating the medication well! I didn't really have much pain/pressure until my 2nd scan when my follicles registered 14-18 mm in size. It was at that appointment my nurse recommended switching from water to Gatorade. I drink TONS of fluids all day (mostly water) so it was rough for me but I did it. I'm glad I did because I staved of OHSS. After my first day of drinking 64 ounces (ugh) the pain and pressure was 80% relieved.

@riathewolf - Oh, no, that is terrible I am so sorry to hear that. Do they think the second trigger shot will help mature the other follicles into eggs?

suzycupcake

I'm so sorry this is happening @riathewolf Hugs. I hope tomorrow is a better day.  

@funkykey Sorry AF isn't here yet. That's just so frustrating! And oh snap! You've given me another calculator to obsess on, thanks a lot The money, yes! It's absolutely ludicrous that we have to spend this much. Like our infertility should be treated no differently than someone's diabetes or high blood pressure. I have so many strong opinions on that. I'm gonna make that my next film project. 

My biggest challenge financially is feeling guilty about spending all of this on something that quite possibly might not work. There are so many people out there who are in need and I sometimes feel like I'm being selfish. 

@blackhottamales That was really smart to do that. I wish I had thought of that when I resigned from my last job to work from home for a little while. Part of it was because I was moving up the ladder in my career but the other part, TW* in spoiler

I resigned after I got my first ever bfp and thought that everything was going to be just fine. Then I also experienced my first loss.

I wish I had been more practical in the decisions that I made because we could've very well have had at least some IF coverage through the other company my husband works for. At least though, we will be able to deduct the cost of IVF and everything else medically related on our personal taxes which should bring our tax liability down significantly. I should probably ask my accountant if I can also give myself, as an employee of my S Corp, a check for IF as a form of employer help or whatever. 

zamoraspin

@suzycupcake The sucky thing about taking the medical deduction is that, even though the "floor" is temporarily down to 7.5% for this year, you still can only deduct medical expenses that are 7.5% or more of your AGI. And, in 2018 the standard (non-itemized) deduction is $12k individually/$24k married filing joint/$12k each married filing separate. When I used a calculator and talked to my CPA about it, it looks like even with our mortgage deduction we're not going to be much better off itemizing. Because we have an HSA we are electing instead to pay ourselves back through that over the next bunch of years. 

suzycupcake

Ooh good catch zamora! I forgot about that change. That does suck a bit. We probably will be able to squeeze a few K past that though because of IVF, two IUIs we did this year, one medicated TI cycle, all of the labwork, etc., all of our other healthcare costs aside from IF, medical miles and parking, donations, tax prep, our mortgage deduction, IRAs, and other joint investments interest, etc. Our S Corp is a pass through so we will have a lot of deductions from that end too coming through to our personal. Gah, I hope we get to itemize over that allowed deduction. 

I've looked into HSAs before and couldn't decide. What do you think of it? Like, love about it vs hate about it. I need to sit down and compare with what we are doing now. 

funkykey

@riathewolf - OMG, did I read this right? Did you have an ER on your 30th birthday?! What a nightmare.

I'm so so so sorry about those follicles.  

I know some birthdays are happy, but I find for me, since I've been IF, each birthday has been such a drag. I know you said everyone wishing you a good day is making you cry, so I don't want to say that... But I will say, you are a trooper, pushing through all of this. Hoping you get good news tomorrow, and sending you a big hug.

In other news: Wow! Some of the things you ladies have done to pay for IVF are so inspiring! @blackhottamales - that is amazing! I mean, I wish insurance weren't so f*cked, but wow!

@mkr_0128 - I've heard that people have to jump through a lot of hoops to get in at the military hospitals. Is that true? Did you find that? 

@wishiwaspreggo - I hope the INVOcell does that too, makes it more accessible. I think it was brave of you to do it, and I feel like your success is going to make a lot of women think differently. It's awesome!

@suzycupcake - I know, don't get me started. I live in Canada, so almost everything here is covered... except IF. I mean, some regions do it differently, but where I am?... I could drive drunk & get into an accident, and I'd have more financial support from the health care system than a 27-year-old girl with PCOS trying to conceive. It's actually made me really rage-y sometimes, with some people. 

I never, ever thought I'd argue for privatized health care, but sometimes, when I realize that I've paid all these taxes, and I'm looking at my fertility clinic bills, and I'm thinking about all these other people who get coverage for totally preventable ailments, and I'm like: "F*ck this. Why should I help these people?" 

  

mkr_0128

@funkykey there are definitely some hoops, though I can't compare it to a non-military facility since I haven't done that, so I guess I'm not really sure haha. It may be the same for regular facilities, but the waiting for  appointments is the most annoying thing (more so referring to when DH was trying to see the urologist specialist there because of his poor, prior SA results. It took maybe 2 months to get a damn consult, and then another 2 months to get him in for the MESA. By then we had missed the march/April AND June/July IVF cycles. I was pretty livid, as I was told initially we wouldn't have trouble getting into the march/April cycle. Then here we were not starting til end of August, 5 months later...). I'm sure we all play the waiting game in some aspect! But thats my biggest complaint since they only do 5 cycles a year...And not everyone gets into every cycle... AND there's only 6 military hospitals that offer IVF throughout the country, so that's insanely frustrating!

zamoraspin

@riathewolf Thinking of you today. I hope you get some better news. 
@funkykey Oh man. You don't want privatized, trust me, it sucks. For example you pay a lot into the system in a lot of years when you don't need anything (generally in the thousands of dollars per year per person just to have coverage), and then when you do have a lot of medical expenses it is largely not covered anyway and/or you have to pay your out of pocket max before things are covered, which again, is thousands of dollars. 
@suzycupcake HSA's are one of the most tax advantaged accounts you can ever own. I don't want to give you advice on them here, but if you do some research you'll get an idea of what is good, and the main downside is you have to be on a high deductible plan, so how high your deductible is makes a big difference. 

Update from u/s today - R ovary: 5 @ 15, 1 @ 12, 1 @ 11, 1 @ 9. L ovary: 1 @ 17, 3 @ 15. E2 was 379 on Monday and 603 on Tuesday. Unless they call me today (I guess if my e2 has gone super nuts) I stay on the same meds and come in again on Saturday, likely trigger on Saturday and retrieval Monday. It's going by super quick! The Cetrotide and Menopur are definitely the more intense shots and I'm getting bruised from those. I have started to get tired in the afternoon and a little foggy, and I have some discomfort especially on the right side, but all in all it's not bad. 

blackhottamales

Thinking about you today @riathewolf

@zamora_spin sounds like it's going pretty well for you! I luckily only had one bruise but it's annoying and i can still see it on my belly . hopefully you can just relax all weekend before retrieval.  

riathewolf

First of all thank you so much to everyone for your kind words. I DO have good news today. The second trigger worked and my ER was successful with 17 eggs! I could not be happier with that number after what happened yesterday. Hell, it’s a good number in general!! Now I can rest and have some birthday cake .

mkr_0128

Wow such a relief @riathewolf!! Congrats   can't wait to hear your next update!! Enjoy every bit of that cake 😊

wishiwaspreggo

@riathewolf Excellent update!!!! I was thinking about you and hoping so hard you’d get better results. 17 is a great number - it’s what I had at my retrieval can’t wait to hear about your fertilization report and progress updates!

blackhottamales

@riathewolf

suzycupcake

@riathewolf 17 is a great number! 

suzycupcake

@funkykey She is right about privatized. Unless you're with an employer that offers great coverage, you probably just won't be going to the doctor (aside from covered preventive; a new thing in recent years) while paying a hefty premium. It's astronomically difficult and expensive to regulate personal responsibility though I wish it could be done. Aside from that, mentality/policies need to be changed surrounding infertility. The bigger questions are, why does a person get more care/coverage for a car accident than one who has trouble conceiving? What beliefs go into that equation and can we find a way to circumvent this problem? Education? Maybe . . .

Afm; TSH came back 2.990 after 5 months without Levothyroxine. RE wants me to get back on Levo at 12.5mcg instead of the 50 I was taking back then. When I asked him if this is going beyond subclinical (family hx of thyroid disease on both sides), he says he wants to bring it down to 2.5, that I can still make embryos before that, but that I will "continue on it until the baby is born and then we can reassess". Lol I told him that I love his confidence in that statement and he replied that he is keeping his fingers crossed. He is quite a Doctor! 

I'm doing okay on stims so far. I'm definitely feeling nutty though and my tits really hurt today. Last night, it felt a little harder to inject, but I got through it. Still really tired but hey at least it's making me go to sleep at a decent hour. Got some whey protein and electrolyte drinks coming in the mail to try to prevent OHSS since I got that mildly when I was on Clomid. I want to try to minimize it as much as possible. 

Bonniebonsall

Just caught up and phew - @riathewolf - I'm so relieved to hear that your second trigger worked and you got 17 eggs! Congrats, and happy belated birthday! Yesterday was my 4th wedding anniversary so we share a special day! 

AFM - Had my ER yesterday and got 23 eggs! I just heard from my nurse and 19 were mature and 17 fertilized! Over the moon with this news! Will find out how things are progressing tomorrow. My RE also reviewed my scans and thinks that we should still move forward with the fresh transfer on Monday (as long as I don't get OHSS in the meantime! Fingers crossed for that). Had some pain yesterday after ER, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. I get pretty bad cramps with AF so I would compare it to that, but more of a sore muscle feeling, getting more intense when I move a certain way or laugh. Yesterday I rested on the couch with a heating pad, chugged gatorade, and had my favorite salty sandwich for both lunch and dinner! It wasn't the most exciting or romantic anniversary, but it's pretty cool to think that our future babies will have been conceived on our anniversary! I was able to go back to work today, but I brought my heating pad and have been taking tylenol regularly.

I also did my first PIO shot by myself yesterday (DH was there for moral support but couldn't pull the trigger). It actually wasn't too bad! I put the EMLA cream on one hour before. Once I drew the PIO into the syringe, I warmed it up with the heating pad, and then as soon as I gave myself the injection, I had DH massage it in with a washcloth warmed up with hot water. Barely any pain at all! I'm sure it will get worse as I start doing them every day, but I'm relieved that it was much easier than I anticipated, and pretty proud of myself for being able to do it by myself!

suzycupcake

Aww @Bonniebonsall That is sweet, Happy Anniversary! And congratulations on such a great embie report. Fx that everything will go perfectly on Monday!

mkr_0128

@Bonniebonsall wow congrats!! Monday is SO SOON!!! I'm relieved to hear you think the PIO wasn't so bad, I'm still dreading that part of my process 

zamoraspin

@riathewolf I am so relieved and happy for you! Yes! 17 eggs is amazing!
@Bonniebonsall Happy belated anniversary to you! Way to go with the PIO. I hope you get to do your fresh transfer as desired!
@suzycupcake How was your appt today? 

riathewolf

@Bonniebonsall oh congrats!! Monday will be here before you know it!

Fertilization report is in! 12 of our 17 eggs were mature. And 8 fertilized. We are so happy!! Now we wait till Tuesday to get a report on what is being frozen. 

zamoraspin

@riathewolf That is great! I hope you get lots of good blasts. 

Guys. My brain. It does not work right now. Did others have extreme brain fog? I'm on day 8 of stims and this is probably the last day before trigger. I am also fighting the urge to vomit after I eat. I get really hungry, eat a reasonable amount of food, and then feel like I'm going to be sick. 

wishiwaspreggo

@riathewolf - Hooray!!!! That's fabulous Hope you get some good blasts from your batch there!

@zamora_spin - have you been drinking the Gatorade? I know I sound crazy pushing it on everyone but it helped me soooooo much. I had that feeling (the pressure on my belly and not able to eat much) and it could be from the follicle fluid with all the eggs developing. The electrolytes keep it all moving and replace the lost nutrients. I'm just saying, you should really guzzle the stuff. I know it's gross but it helped me a TON.

zamoraspin

@wishiwaspreggo I haven't had regular water since early yesterday. I've been doing mostly Pedialyte (higher sodium content that Gatorade and not as gross to me) and coconut water. I started having crazy salt cravings yesterday and I took that as a sign that I needed to steer clear of regular water. 

suzycupcake

@zamora_spin Did you tell your RE about the nausea and almost vomiting? Real important okay? Like you, I have an aversion to Gatorade so I'm doing coconut water too except mine is electrolyte enhanced. What do you think of the taste of the Pedialyte? Eta: Fatigue and brain fog, check!

Afm; u/s showed 18 follicles growing so I'm starting Cetrotide Sunday evening and will do another u/s Monday morning. RE says ER will be next Friday for sure. I was told not to exercise at all and to take it easy so I'm gonna listen. When he was about to put the vag wand in, I told him that there definitely has been some activity. He said, "As long as there isn't any bowel activity going on, I'm good!" There was a cyst in there that's big so he's gonna aspirate it during the ER. He said no blood work is needed and hasn't done any so far. Is that normal? Eta: He said he could take my blood if I want and then I told him I'm a vampire! I really just don't want to stress out about anything so I let it go. Maybe I don't need any /shruggy

blackhottamales

@riathewolf that's great report!!

@zamora_spin i'm sorry you aren't feeling well.  I wasn't nauseous, but i felt bad those last 3 days too.  I rested a lot and binge watched lots of tv (all of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Jack Ryan--both of them i loved). 

@Bonniebonsall wow! those are great numbers.  I'm still impressed with you and @wishiwaspreggo for doing the shots yourself.  I'll have to figure that out when i get to my FET since DH travels lots for work.  

@suzycupcake I don't know what's 'normal' I did have my bloodwork taken every day i went in for ultrasound.  But maybe it's just to watch the estrogen level and you don't have other signs yet?  Friday is coming up soon!! It's crazy to me once you start  stimming how quickly the time goes.  It's great because at least you feel like you're doing something.  How are you feeling overall?  

AFM:
still waiting, i knew this week would be a week of zero updates so I think i actually was less distracted than when i knew an update would be coming.  They said two weeks last Sunday, so I'm assuming nothing next week and then hopefully CCH results early in the week of 1st.  

Have a wonderful weekend ladies! DH is out of town again so i'm trying to decide if i should be nice and be productive or have a wonderful lazy weekend--maybe i can't have a little of both.  

suzycupcake

@blackhottamales Yea Idk. I thought it was like a thing to monitor E2 levels. I sent an email to my coordinator to ask. Also, to ask her about the trigger shot because I didn't get one from the pharmacy when I picked up stims. I'm feeling okay. Just really fatigued. I have MS so I'm used to that symptom already; managing well. I do feel somewhat bloated. Thanks for asking  

Sorry that you're still in limbo. I wish those kinds of tests would go faster, but it does seem to be a tedious lab process. I hope you decide to have a lazy weekend. We women rarely feel we are entitled to total pampering and relaxation. You are doing something super important and difficult. Always remember that! 

wishing-and-hoping

@suzycupcake i guess since you are doing a frozen transfer, the progesterone level wouldn't matter.  i think the estradiol level is supposed to give them information about how mature your follicles might be.  it can also warn them if you are at risk of OHSS.  i would get it checked if it were me!  sounds like things are going well so far!!

@zamora_spin i had those feelings but only after the retrieval (i assume my progesterone was high after all the follicles growing) so i had lots of nausea during the week after retrieval.  i don't know what would cause that during stims so maybe check @ your next appointment?

suzycupcake

Thought you ladies might enjoy this: https://www.facebook.com/txtuniversity/videos/319850748593138

zamoraspin

Went in for monitoring and saw my RE (as opposed to the other RE). I did mention the nausea and fogginess and she is not concerned but said it is always good to let them know about symptoms. The good news is things are still growing. The bad news is she wants my follicles bigger before trigger. There are some above 18 mm in length, but then they aren't as wide, if that makes sense. She saw 7 big ones on the right and 6 on the left so the left has caught up some, although there is still one on each ovary that is just under 10 so I doubt those will make it. Pending bw it is now sounding like trigger on Monday or Tuesday. I know it's for the best to get the most eggs we can get but I also was looking forward to being done and having the last few days fall over a weekend. I'm finding it hard to get a lot done at work with the way my brain is working. 

suzycupcake

Glad to hear you're okay Z! I really hope those couple of follies catch up. They absolutely can. Are you gonna have one more u/s before ER?

suzycupcake

@Bonniebonsall How are you feeling and how are the shots going now that it has been a couple of extra days? Eta have you guys decided how many embies you are going to transfer?

blackhottamales

@zamora_spin sorry the ER was delayed but it sounds like things are progressing nicely. I wish I had a tip for being productive but I was a complete slug the 3 days before retrieval. 

@suzycupcake did you get the info on your trigger shot? I think because I had hi E2 I only trigger with lupron and not pregnyl. 

zamoraspin

@blackhottamales Thanks, lady. I've been feeling better over the weekend than I was during the week but I'm also not doing a ton, like the biggest activity I did yesterday was grocery shopping!

Bonniebonsall

Thank you everyone for the support and well  wishes! Tomorrow is the day — my embryo transfer is at 8:45 AM! Will let you know how it goes! 

@riathewolf Congrats on all those embies! Hope you have plenty that make it to Tues! 

@zamora_spin Yes on the brain fog! Although I don’t know if it was the stims or all of the early morning monitoring appointments (not really a morning person!). I was pretty much there daily during my last week of stims. 

GL with your trigger! Those follies can definitely still grow after trigger, and some of the smaller ones could be mature too — I only had 6 over 18mm the morning of trigger, but ended up with 19 mature! 

@wishiwaspreggo Agree on the Gatorade! I started about a week before trigger, and upped my intake to 64 oz a day plus some coconut water since ER. It is gross but seems to be staving of OHSS so far! How long did you continue with it after your ER? And is your first beta coming up soon? 

@suzycupcake I’m surprised at no blood work! During my last week of stims I had blood work daily and my arms are still a mess (found out that I have fragile veins and bruise easily). They were mainly monitoring my E2 and LH — they had to adjust my dosage of Lupron and Gonal F because both were getting too high. I would definitely ask for it!

And I’m feeling pretty good, thank you for asking! The first few days after ER I was pretty bloated and achy, and TMI — very constipated! But feeling much better now and so far no signs of OHSS! My butt is definitely a bit sore but the shots haven’t been too bad so far! 

Our clinic only lets you transfer one if it’s your first transfer and you’re under a certain age, so we’ll just be doing one! Hoping to have a few extra to freeze in case we need to do an FET! 

@blackhottamales Thank you! I definitely have to psych myself up for them — aiming the shot and almost sticking it in a few times before actually doing it! But so far so good. I had one that was a little more painful but I think it’s because I accidentally did it outside of the area where my EMLA cream was. It’s kind of an awkward angle! But you’ll be able to do it!!

funkykey

@zamora_spin @suzycupcake - yeah, I didn't mean it literally re: privatized care. Just that it really bothers me that everything is covered, except IF. I often wonder, if IF disproportionately affected men instead of women, would it still be uncovered? I don't think so. It makes me really angry, and that kind of sexism makes me want to help my fellow citizen less.

I've seen some people argue that more coverage goes to car accidents than trouble conceiving because "car accidents are more life threatening, whereas IF is not life threatening", and I think I'm much more cutthroat than those people. I generally value justice above mercy, and a lot of deaths/ailments I don't have a lot of pity for.

Of course, I do have other opinions about privatized care, just besides all that. For example, "privatized" should not = "price gouging", and unfortunately, a lot of private companies seem confused about that. Some health care systems are so totally corrupted by greed, they should be burned to the ground.

@Bonniebonsall - great news! Good luck tomorrow!

@riathewolf - what a relief! I'm so glad that the second trigger worked!! Great news re: your 8 fertilized!

@zamora_spin - I had a bit of brain fog, but I think it was more due to the stress than the stims. Not much longer til ER! Sending your ovaries lots of good vibes!

AFM: another week to go until results. I am hoping to do a November FET, depending on how things go. But I'm not signing up for anything until I get news!

zamoraspin

@funkykey I have wondered that too re fertility and if more men had to deal with it. I read a rather alarming article recently that said male sperm counts are trending down at an alarming rate due to all the chemicals we expose ourselves too - phthalates and BPA. The unfair thing is even when infertility is male factor it is still the female partner who bears most of the physical burden with treatments. How are you distracting yourself from the waiting game? I am thinking I will also have a November FET because we've tentatively decided to to an ERA immediately following this cycle. 

AFM -- Good news at monitoring this am. My RE is satisfied with the size of my follicles and (pending bw) we will trigger tonight for a Wednesday retrieval. Today she saw 9 good sized follies on the right and 6 on the left, all but one was over 1.4 at it's "longest" point so we may get more eggs than anticipated which would be great. 

funkykey

@zamora_spin - I don't know about the phthalates and BPA. Honestly, even though I did a lot of the ISWTE suggestions, some of that was kind of, err, questionable. But I did recently see a compelling argument about male sperm counts linking the drop in sperm counts to the milk supply - I guess some think this is another issue that may be influencing men's sperm. 

The argument is, basically: "Milk consumption in the developed world has increased at a staggering rate over the past 50-60 years. This demand has prompted farmers to push cows to produce milk for consumption, even milking them throughout their pregnancies. Indeed 70% of milk in the world comes from cows who are pregnant." 

The hormones in that milk, butter, and cheese may be affecting the counts, is the idea.

This was the reference:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27692435

wishiwaspreggo

@bonniebonsall - I drank Gatorade until transfer day. Then I cut it back to one Gatorade drink a day for a few days and then I stopped all together. No more ovarian pain so I think I'm good now beta isn't until Thursday. I have no idea why they make us wait a full 2 weeks. By then I'll technically be 19 DPO. It's just silly. But whatever, it's their protocol so I'll hang tight for now.

zamoraspin

@funkykey That’s interesting as well. This is the article I read: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/sperm-count-zero/amp

I admit I made the ISTWE changes as much as possible (except I really do need to wear antiperspirant) but remained skeptical of the phthalate and BPA stuff until recently. The scary thing about the above article is it says, essentially, due to epigenetics the trend will continue. Whatever the cause, it seems the drop in count is well documented and is going to become a huge problem very soon.

blackhottamales

@zamora_spin woohoo! that's great news.  

@bonniebonsall i hope the transfer went well!

@wishiwaspreggo wow 19DPO--that's patience right there (although i know you tested but still...it'd be nice to have the blood work). 

@funkykey waiting is so hard...I keep hoping the results will come back early but in reality i know i won't get them until next week.

AFM: [RANT] I'm slightly annoyed, really it's just my control issues.  I have zero idea when i can do an FET.  originally my RE stated 5 weeks after ER.  That would put me around October 15th, but so many of you all (and people on the Oct FET board) already have their calendars so it makes me feel like i won't transfer until much later.  I could call and ask, but i don't want to be "that" person.  It really doesn't impact me except for my curiosity.  [END OF RANT] . Other than that, things are good, MH is back home and i have lots of things to get done this week.