Thanks for the kind words, we will be hopeful that our one from the prior cycle is our one!
Chiming in on the embryo quality and PGS testing discussion...while I have no transfer experience as to how it plays out, in this last round I had six embryos that were better grading (two at 4AA, which i think is the best) and zero passed PGS whereas last time we had three lower grade quality and one passed PGS. Point being to agree with other comments these are two different issues and the “lower quality” embryos can still be just as successful.
@babydust2507 Hopefully the 4AA makes it! If not, try for another one (or two if you're comfortable with that). If you don't have success with that you might want to have them thawed and biopsied. If your embryos are mostly Day 5/6 and good quality they'll likely handle another round of thaw/freeze well (in my experience). The question then is what's more affordable: to have upwards of another 4 transfers (with 2 at a time), 8 more transfers (1 at a time), or to have them thawed/cultured/biopsied/frozen and then have another transfer with whatever is euploid. But even then the euploid may not produce a pregnancy.
Keep in mind that before PGS was a thing, people would just transfer embryos, and it would work quite well! Once the status of the embryo is known you might find that you're restricted in only transferring euploids, a lot of doctors are not comfortable with mosaics and certainly abnormal embryos. But there is evidence that mosaic embryos can correct themselves and you can end up with a normal pregnancy. This might also be possible with abnormal embryos! I remember reading a news article of a woman getting pregnant from her abnormal embryo and having a healthy child. Makes you wonder how many abnormal embryos were transferred before PGS and how many resulted in normal pregnancies.
It's possible PGS is not as conclusive as we want to believe it is. Your testing around 5 cells out of an embryo that is upwards of 300 cells in total and this may not be sufficient. Imagine a jar of 300 jellybeans - green, red, purple, etc. and pulling out 5 - what are the chances those 5 representing the entire jar? What if you only picked green ones, and missed the other ones? Well then you would say that the jar contains green jelly beans and "therefore it's euploid". That's kind of what it's like. So sometimes a euploid embryo isn't really euploid, and sometimes an abnormal isn't really abnormal. And sometimes crazy things like a mosaic embryo corrects itself! Clearly it's not as cut and dry as we like to believe, there's a ton more to know.
Personally I would probably do two transfers using my best embryos before considering PGS and would only do it if I had many embryos remaining. It can get really expensive!
I am Embryoman - your friendly neighborhood embryologist! **Removed for TOU violation**
Thank you @embryoman for taking your time to explain to me like that, it does make sense and thank you for the advice! I guess I will know pretty soon if it worked! My BETA is on Wednesday but I will probably take a home test on Tuesday. At first I couldn't wait for Wednesday to come but now I feel like I need more time to hear that news, ugh! The 2WW are definitely the worst! How are you doing @lemondrop1976?
@babydust2507 I am the same with wanting Wednesday to take its time, I just do not feel like starting all over again. I'm exhausted between IVF cycles and work. Can you sense the positive attitude?? I'm sorry I think I'm a little more hormonal today. Maybe your Tuesday POS will get things moving along in a good vibe direction for the week;)
@babydust2507 and @lemondrop1976 good both of you for ur upcoming tests. Hope that it good news for both of you.
@embryoman thanks for detailed explanation, I feel less guilty of not going for pgs testing now.
@katie35 thanks for checking on me, yes doing fine started my lupron last week and on day 1 today, will start estrace this week. The dose keeps changing every 5 days with and without monitoring and I decided to go with 1 embryo transfer after lot of debating with myself. If this doesn't work in December will transfer 2. Hoping this journey ends this year
@lemondrop1976 and @babydust2507 Thinking about you two with testing coming up. That feeling is the worst.... wanting to test...but worried about the results so also ok with not knowing. As well as the fear of starting all over again. Praying for you both this week.
AFM, I took the test this morning on my way to work and have another BFN, can't even cry, don't know what to think, just feel like I will never be a mother and just need to accept it instead of spending all that money in fertility treatment and still nothing so frustrating! Have my BETA appointment tomorrow will see what's my next step with my frozen ones. GL to you all
@babydust2507 don't get too disheartened. Things may look brighter tomorrow may be the hcg is not enough for home test or may be the implantation is slow.
You have 9 wonderful embroys. U can try again think of it like a test for paitence. Please stay hopeful.
Thank you @bkatp for your kind word, I really appreciate it! It's just so frustrating, stabbing myself with needles for almost a month from stims to PIO all that for nothing, ugh!
@babydust2507 yes I understand. Sometimes I feel that too. I have read somewhere that Endo scratch helps in implantation. Maybe u can ask ur doctor.
Did they do assisted hatching for you? If not Maybe u can ask for that too. And after transfer did u start working from day 1? Maybe be u can try differently next time if this is indeed a BFN.
@bkatp my transfer was on Sunday and I worked the next day. Yes they do assistance hatching. I will ask about that and the endo scratch thanks for the insight!
@babydust2507 I've been down in those dumps too - after 5 years of TTC +fertility treaments, natural BFP and ealry miscarriage. I was completely devastated; my biggest wish had always been to be a mom. I was completely broken inside which is why we took a 6 month break before continuing. Unfortunately, the only thing that worked to get me out of my misery was abilify prescribed by my doctor. IF fricking sucks.
-hugs-
~~ Our Story in Spoiler! TW loss/child~~
Fall 2012 -- started TTC Summer 2015 - no BFP yet, labs normal, referred to RE Fall 2015 - Summer 2016 - Further testing all normal. 3 IUI's -- BFN. Recommended move to IVF. Planned cycle for fall 2016. September 2016 - Surprise natural BFP. MMC @ 8 weeks. RE expressed confidence that we just needed the 'right' embryo. Fall 2016 - Spring 2017 -- Break from TTC June 2017 - Started IVF; egg retrieval for freeze all cycle. 9 mature eggs retrieved, 5 fertilized. 2 4BB embies on ice. August 2017 - FET transfer both embies. BFP. Twin pregnancy confirmed by ultrasound. EDD 4/28/18 September 2017 - Twin B stopped developing; Twin A doing perfectly! Graduated from RE @ 10 weeks March 2018 - Baby Girl born via C/S due to pre-eclampsia -- strong and healthy!
TTC #2 January/Feb 2021 - Freeze-all IVF cycle March 2021 - FET of 1 PGS normal female embryo. BFP! Beta #1 156, #2 472, #3 1241, #4 5268 EDD 12/5/21 - Christmas baby!
Thank you @mbradfo2 we've been TTC for about 4 yrs with 1 natural pregnancy ended up to m/c like you, I also took almost a year break between stress and changing RE. It will make it so much easier if we could know what's my problem and try to fix it. With unexplained infertility, I feel like all these it's like a lottery game, trying everything and hope that one will be the winner but it's not fun when your all and it's still a maybe...
Fall 2012 -- started TTC Summer 2015 - no BFP yet, labs normal, referred to RE Fall 2015 - Summer 2016 - Further testing all normal. 3 IUI's -- BFN. Recommended move to IVF. Planned cycle for fall 2016. September 2016 - Surprise natural BFP. MMC @ 8 weeks. RE expressed confidence that we just needed the 'right' embryo. Fall 2016 - Spring 2017 -- Break from TTC June 2017 - Started IVF; egg retrieval for freeze all cycle. 9 mature eggs retrieved, 5 fertilized. 2 4BB embies on ice. August 2017 - FET transfer both embies. BFP. Twin pregnancy confirmed by ultrasound. EDD 4/28/18 September 2017 - Twin B stopped developing; Twin A doing perfectly! Graduated from RE @ 10 weeks March 2018 - Baby Girl born via C/S due to pre-eclampsia -- strong and healthy!
TTC #2 January/Feb 2021 - Freeze-all IVF cycle March 2021 - FET of 1 PGS normal female embryo. BFP! Beta #1 156, #2 472, #3 1241, #4 5268 EDD 12/5/21 - Christmas baby!
Thank you everyone! I have only 2 more cycles available to make this happen. It took 4 yrs to come up with the final plan or stopping point and we decided to purchase a 4 cycle package this round and then call it quits for IVF mainly due to financial reasons, so far we racked up close to $100k out of pocket throughout this whole ordeal. If these last 2 do not do the trick I may be hesitantly doing one round with a donor egg which kinda freaks me out.
I am sorry to hear that @lemondrop1976. I really thought this cycle will work for u. I am with u on donor eggs. If it comes to that point, I'll probably pick adoption as my resort. I really hope and pray next one will work.
@babydust2507 I feel the same way esp when I see pregnant women walking around, I am like why is it so complicated for me.
Thank you @lemondrop1976! Exactly! @bkatp and I feel so broken like they did everything all the hard work and my body can't even hold on to that embryo, so frustrating!
I am so sorry @babydust2507 and @lemondrop1976 Getting that negative result is so hard and frustrating. Thinking of you both and sending prayers for comfort!
@babydust2507@lemondrop1976 so sorry to hear about the negative results this round. Thinking of you and positive thoughts for a better go next time.
I hear what people are saying about the frustration. All the money, hormones, mental ups and downs...it’s definitely a lot to deal with. I hear other’s stories and see the struggles so many go through, but then I hear the happy stories where it works so I try to remember that and focus on the positive. Easier said than done sometimes of course.
Thank you @mackorori and yes you are correct, the positive stories help us keep trying and believing it will happen for us too and it will happen soon!
@babydust2507 and @lemondrop1976 I am so so very sorry for your sad and heartbreaking news. I was really praying this would be both of your times. I’ll pray for comfort and that you have the energy and motivation to continue fighting for your dream.
@bkatp how have you been doing?? Any updates on your situation? I know there are several on this forum getting closer to their FET dates.
I had another ultrasound this afternoon and am 8 1/2 weeks along. Baby is growing well and the heart rate is 179 bpm! I finally got to hear it today which was music to my ears! We were officially dismissed from our infertility/high risk center (very bittersweet...I cried) and we see our new OB in just two weeks. It all seems so unreal....a blessing I wasn’t sure would come.
That is such a great news! Very happy for you @kbenner2! Congratulations again! AFM, I started BCP on Monday and waiting on my FET calendar. Will keep you all posted! Hope to have is scheduled in September as I do not wanna be too long on BCP. GL to you all!
Re: July 2018 IVF
Chiming in on the embryo quality and PGS testing discussion...while I have no transfer experience as to how it plays out, in this last round I had six embryos that were better grading (two at 4AA, which i think is the best) and zero passed PGS whereas last time we had three lower grade quality and one passed PGS. Point being to agree with other comments these are two different issues and the “lower quality” embryos can still be just as successful.
Keep in mind that before PGS was a thing, people would just transfer embryos, and it would work quite well! Once the status of the embryo is known you might find that you're restricted in only transferring euploids, a lot of doctors are not comfortable with mosaics and certainly abnormal embryos. But there is evidence that mosaic embryos can correct themselves and you can end up with a normal pregnancy. This might also be possible with abnormal embryos! I remember reading a news article of a woman getting pregnant from her abnormal embryo and having a healthy child. Makes you wonder how many abnormal embryos were transferred before PGS and how many resulted in normal pregnancies.
It's possible PGS is not as conclusive as we want to believe it is. Your testing around 5 cells out of an embryo that is upwards of 300 cells in total and this may not be sufficient. Imagine a jar of 300 jellybeans - green, red, purple, etc. and pulling out 5 - what are the chances those 5 representing the entire jar? What if you only picked green ones, and missed the other ones? Well then you would say that the jar contains green jelly beans and "therefore it's euploid". That's kind of what it's like. So sometimes a euploid embryo isn't really euploid, and sometimes an abnormal isn't really abnormal. And sometimes crazy things like a mosaic embryo corrects itself! Clearly it's not as cut and dry as we like to believe, there's a ton more to know.
Personally I would probably do two transfers using my best embryos before considering PGS and would only do it if I had many embryos remaining. It can get really expensive!
**Removed for TOU violation**
How are you doing @lemondrop1976?
@embryoman thanks for detailed explanation, I feel less guilty of not going for pgs testing now.
@katie35 thanks for checking on me, yes doing fine started my lupron last week and on day 1 today, will start estrace this week. The dose keeps changing every 5 days with and without monitoring and I decided to go with 1 embryo transfer after lot of debating with myself. If this doesn't work in December will transfer 2. Hoping this journey ends this year
Married: 06/21/2008
TTC #1:
IUI #1-bfp DS born 07/06/2010
TTC #2:
IUI #1: Sept. 2017 - cancelled (ovulated too soon)
IUI #2: Oct. 2017 - bfn
switched clinics
IUI#3: Nov. 2017 - bfn
IUI#4: Dec. 2017 - bfn
Hysteroscopy w/ ovarian diathermy: Feb. 2018
IUI#5: April 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IUI#6: May 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IVF #1: July 2018
You have 9 wonderful embroys. U can try again think of it like a test for paitence. Please stay hopeful.
Did they do assisted hatching for you? If not Maybe u can ask for that too. And after transfer did u start working from day 1? Maybe be u can try differently next time if this is indeed a BFN.
Just my thoughts not to over stress you.
I've been down in those dumps too - after 5 years of TTC +fertility treaments, natural BFP and ealry miscarriage. I was completely devastated; my biggest wish had always been to be a mom. I was completely broken inside which is why we took a 6 month break before continuing. Unfortunately, the only thing that worked to get me out of my misery was abilify prescribed by my doctor. IF fricking sucks.
-hugs-
Summer 2015 - no BFP yet, labs normal, referred to RE
Fall 2015 - Summer 2016 - Further testing all normal. 3 IUI's -- BFN. Recommended move to IVF. Planned cycle for fall 2016.
September 2016 - Surprise natural BFP. MMC @ 8 weeks. RE expressed confidence that we just needed the 'right' embryo.
Fall 2016 - Spring 2017 -- Break from TTC
June 2017 - Started IVF; egg retrieval for freeze all cycle. 9 mature eggs retrieved, 5 fertilized. 2 4BB embies on ice.
August 2017 - FET transfer both embies. BFP. Twin pregnancy confirmed by ultrasound. EDD 4/28/18
September 2017 - Twin B stopped developing; Twin A doing perfectly! Graduated from RE @ 10 weeks
March 2018 - Baby Girl born via C/S due to pre-eclampsia -- strong and healthy!
TTC #2
January/Feb 2021 - Freeze-all IVF cycle
March 2021 - FET of 1 PGS normal female embryo. BFP! Beta #1 156, #2 472, #3 1241, #4 5268 EDD 12/5/21 - Christmas baby!
"When all is lost then all is found."
Summer 2015 - no BFP yet, labs normal, referred to RE
Fall 2015 - Summer 2016 - Further testing all normal. 3 IUI's -- BFN. Recommended move to IVF. Planned cycle for fall 2016.
September 2016 - Surprise natural BFP. MMC @ 8 weeks. RE expressed confidence that we just needed the 'right' embryo.
Fall 2016 - Spring 2017 -- Break from TTC
June 2017 - Started IVF; egg retrieval for freeze all cycle. 9 mature eggs retrieved, 5 fertilized. 2 4BB embies on ice.
August 2017 - FET transfer both embies. BFP. Twin pregnancy confirmed by ultrasound. EDD 4/28/18
September 2017 - Twin B stopped developing; Twin A doing perfectly! Graduated from RE @ 10 weeks
March 2018 - Baby Girl born via C/S due to pre-eclampsia -- strong and healthy!
TTC #2
January/Feb 2021 - Freeze-all IVF cycle
March 2021 - FET of 1 PGS normal female embryo. BFP! Beta #1 156, #2 472, #3 1241, #4 5268 EDD 12/5/21 - Christmas baby!
"When all is lost then all is found."
I really hope and pray next one will work.
@babydust2507 I feel the same way esp when I see pregnant women walking around, I am like why is it so complicated for me.
Exactly! @bkatp and I feel so broken like they did everything all the hard work and my body can't even hold on to that embryo, so frustrating!
I hear what people are saying about the frustration. All the money, hormones, mental ups and downs...it’s definitely a lot to deal with. I hear other’s stories and see the struggles so many go through, but then I hear the happy stories where it works so I try to remember that and focus on the positive. Easier said than done sometimes of course.
Married: 06/21/2008
TTC #1:
IUI #1-bfp DS born 07/06/2010
TTC #2:
IUI #1: Sept. 2017 - cancelled (ovulated too soon)
IUI #2: Oct. 2017 - bfn
switched clinics
IUI#3: Nov. 2017 - bfn
IUI#4: Dec. 2017 - bfn
Hysteroscopy w/ ovarian diathermy: Feb. 2018
IUI#5: April 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IUI#6: May 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IVF #1: July 2018
I had another ultrasound this afternoon and am 8 1/2 weeks along. Baby is growing well and the heart rate is 179 bpm! I finally got to hear it today which was music to my ears! We were officially dismissed from our infertility/high risk center (very bittersweet...I cried) and we see our new OB in just two weeks. It all seems so unreal....a blessing I wasn’t sure would come.
Married: 06/21/2008
TTC #1:
IUI #1-bfp DS born 07/06/2010
TTC #2:
IUI #1: Sept. 2017 - cancelled (ovulated too soon)
IUI #2: Oct. 2017 - bfn
switched clinics
IUI#3: Nov. 2017 - bfn
IUI#4: Dec. 2017 - bfn
Hysteroscopy w/ ovarian diathermy: Feb. 2018
IUI#5: April 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IUI#6: May 2018 - bfp (chem. preg)
IVF #1: July 2018
AFM, I started BCP on Monday and waiting on my FET calendar. Will keep you all posted! Hope to have is scheduled in September as I do not wanna be too long on BCP. GL to you all!
Yes I am on medications for September 12th transfer. Hoping it won't get cancelled and will keep hoping for other things.
@katie35 @mackorori @anared when are getting ur transfer done ?