Man, I thought I was going to catch heat on my @normalizebreastfeeding post. Guess I picked a good day for that UO
No I agree with you. We can normalize breastfeeding without being overly confrontational about it. It's like yeah, I would dare someone to say something to me if I was breastfeeding my baby but I'm also not going to make it my profile picture and drive around with a "peace love and breastfeed" bumper sticker (I have seen this). There was a group of moms recently in my town who all got together (at least 20+ women) to go see Bad Mom's at the movie theater, which is rated R. A few of them tried to bring their breastfeeding infants into the movie with them. The theater told them they could not go in with a baby since the movie was rated R, but instead the women chose to raise hell and get the news involved saying the theater employee kicked them out for breastfeeding. Come on.
@kater622, I defriended someone on facebook because they posted pics/status updates/and AWARD certificates almost daily about breastfeeding...."Here I am at 18 months of breastfeeding (insert breast shot and paper award she made for herself)....followed by 15 hashtags and a slew of bullet points about why breastfeeding is better than bottle feeding. She even had the audacity to call out a friend of mine who was bottle feeding (not by choice), and said she would have been more successful with it had she not had the "crutch" of formula. What an asshole.
Momma to Amelia Marie (7/14) and Austin Samuel (11/17). Adding baby (girl) #3 on 7/21
I will say the other night DD took one of her dolls and was pretending to breastfeed it. I took a pic and used the hashtag #normalizebreastfeeding So when I saw your original u/o post about this I chuckled and wanted to share this cute thing that happened.
@Jellybelly119 You encompassed everything that I just couldn't seem to put into words. "Facets" was the perfect word choice. My DH often works overnights and for him to skip sleep and take DS in the morning so that I can sleep in is a special thing. I truly believe that small things like that are considered putting me first and loving me. We share parenting duties in our household from diapers to bath-time as well as household chores. We both take time for one another as much as we can. We always put one another first as it is important for our children to see such love. We have weekly date days or nights and are always affectionate. However, I would much rather have a longer shower or family time at the beach than have flowers or any romantic gestures. We are parents, we are married- we identify as both. But the reality for us is that we tried for 10 years for our children and there is no other light I love more right now than seeing DH as a father.
Dude, I'm hoping to end up with one of those mystical unicorn babies who sleep for 3 hour stretches so I can sneak in to see Star Wars: The Last Jedi. Because the nerd is strong with me.
Also... hot damn. I was telling my Sept '09 mommy friends that the Bump has reaaaallllly changed since back in the day. This post makes me think maybe it hasn't! Yay for entertainment.
Me: 38 l DH: 41 Gavin - 8/27/10 *TW* Gabriel - 2nd tri loss 5/17/16 Trisomy 18 & 21 Hope - 2nd tri loss 12/7/16 complications from pneumonia
I'd like to apologize to any board members I have upset or insulted by conflating gender with sex. I'll work on the language (which I have my own opinions/experiences about, but that's less important than being respectful of what is obviously an important distinction to so many community members!).
When I have said I am excited to learn the gender of my child, I have meant that I am excited to know more about him -- which right now is limited, for all of us, to the observable traits of their physical form and behavior. As soon as my child expresses any sort of gender preference of their own (or other pieces of their self-directed identity), it will be honored and celebrated.
@kyrwyn I agree that old habits die hard. I imagine that most of us are old enough to have been raised in a time where the terms gender and sex were used interchangeably, even in biology class, and sometimes gender was used more in conversation because using the term sex felt awkward, especially when you're younger. I appreciate how society has continued to learn and adapt and more appropriately use language like this, but I also try to remember that *most* of the time folks aren't being intentionally insensitive when conflating the two terms. Kind of like how there is a lot of lowkey racially offensive terminology out there that many of the older adults I know still use, simply because it was what they learned at a time where people hadn't figured out not to say that ish yet. I remind them it isn't polite, but know it's easy to forget to turn on your "filter" during casual everyday conversation after such a long time.
The #normalizebreastfeeding comments are making me chuckle. I guess as a girl who has been large-chested since an abnormally early age, and still traumatized by the amount of unwanted attention it has brought me over the years, the tits-in-your-face breastfeeding brigade has always been a mystery to me. Shrug.
@elcd458 i do agree that some of it is just because our culture is all like, "teehee, oh my god, he just said SEX!!" so people are weird about it. and it is practically set in stone in the vernacular to call it a "gender reveal" but that just isn't what it is. i don't assume people mix them up on purpose but that also doesn't stop me from pointing out that they aren't the same thing.
@barrbaby-2 that graphic is excellent. thanks for posting! opening minds and educating as you go, high five
Met: September 2005Married: October 2008 DS: 09/2014
Am I the only one who had to look up the word "conflating"? Lol it was used like three times in this post.. I'd never seen or heard that word before. I feel stupid.
I'm so late to the party. I just wanted to chime in on the "normalize breastfeeding" part.
This is probably due to the group of moms I usually hang around in (babywearing groups = tend to be more attachment parents, natural mommas) but I kind of feel like formula feeding is sometimes bashed more (particularly in the international groups) and because of that the whole #normalizebreastfeeding movement confounds me. I feel like it has been normalized at this point.
Adding that i also breastfed both of my children, each for several months, and I never felt like anyone was judging me. Maybe I just live in a progressive area.
@NME44....I also breastfed and was never harassed, looked at, made to feel uncomfortable. Where are all these victims of breastfeeding judgement? Part of me feels like it's our martyr/victim culture. Sure, there are people that have experienced this, but I think 99% of them are just attention whores who want recognition for for basically doing what most moms do without seeking public recognition and approval.
Momma to Amelia Marie (7/14) and Austin Samuel (11/17). Adding baby (girl) #3 on 7/21
My UO:: I don't think there is anything wrong with using those children's backpacks with leashes. As long as you're not dragging or lurching your kid around, they are a perfectly justifiable safety gear. Any parent who judges another for using them has obviously never experienced a dangerous situation with a child who has no regard for personal safety. In the words of Cam from Modern Family, "I'd sew a kangaroo pouch onto my midriff if it meant it'd keep my child safe."
I just wanna chime in on the normalizebreastfeeding UO: I had a family member that would make a big stink about me feeding DD even while he was in my home. And I made one of those tree of life photo and shared it (I thought it was cute, I was a ftm flame me for it lol) and he got really snarky about it so then I went full out bitch and would post my weekly pump hual some times totaling over 100oz. But I did find out I had a friend who was secretly struggling with breast feeding and I helped her feel empowered so not useless snark after all. Sidenote: reading this was the best use of my pregnancy insomina so far.
Guys... I haven't been on in a couple days because... honestly... it was getting boring as fuck.. But man! You all redeemed it for me! But I just checked before bed and now I'm too tired to respond... I will be back
1- I can't remember who posted the gif, but it reminded me of Elena of Avalor. You are now my new BFF because my DD is obsessed. 2- The snark is unreal and I love it 3- #normalizebreastfeeding is awesome, but I agree with everyone else. Its going over the top. How about #normalizeFEDisBEST? I got sooooo much shit for actually needing to use formula (flat nipples, lazy latch, low supply) 4- I also agree with the post on SO's. DH should be assisting in raising our kids, and I shouldn't have to praise him for it to continually get him to do things. I do praise him when he does things all on his own (like when he lets me sleep in and takes DD down the street to pick up breakfast pastries and coffee for us, or when we plans a family outing and surprises us). But I think that there is way more to being an awesome SO than taking care of your shared children. What happened to Date Night? I can't praise my husband for these things because he's so consumed with making sure that DD is happy. What about US?!
My UO is I really don't understand how y'all have so much free time to come play!! Lol. I only have 1 kid, I'm a SAHM, and I just don't have the same time to be on here like I did when I was pregnant with DD. I apologize for being a "drive-by"/lurker, I just don't have that same free time anymore.
I want to add to my comment, I also had the chance to bring it up in conversation in a group of babywearing strangers (it was at a babywearing conference) about how I sometimes felt isolated in that particular community as a formula feeder, and everyone was actually super open and supportive about it, so I don't really have any issues with that group either. I didn't want it to come off like I did; just that I'm largely exposed to one particular way.
Omg thanks @barrbaby-2@blueskies@rainbowdashh@amcsquared for standing up or gender non conforming/trans folks and all the identities that may be harmed by the sex= gender thinking . I appreciate the respectful discussion especially when it comes to the tolerance of different religions and viewpoints
Sorry I'm so late to the discussion this was a hell week for me
@GraysonsMama I wish you all the best. I hope that you may take the comments directed to you as people trying to show you another perspective and show you how hurtful this line of thinking can be. I hope you can see how it may be a little off step with the claim of trying to be a compassionate religious individual. At the end of the day I think we can all make the world a better place if we all try to do less judging and more listening as everyone is on a unique journey and trajectory in life that can be very different from our own. I don't think that means however that our differences need to necessarily divide us in judgement or hurtful words or behaviors
@jackiesmom324 I agree that words can be very hurtful. I respect other people's perspective and I hope that mine is respected as well. To me, being a "compassionate religious individual" means, in part, to share what I believe to be the Truth. I meant no disrespect and responded to criticism with nothing but love.
@GraysonsMama while I understand and 110% completely respect your religious views, I think other mamas were merely pointing out that Jesus is not necessarily the answer for everyone. I, for one, do not believe Jesus to be our savior, as I am Jewish.
Oh, please don't misunderstand. I totally respect other people's religions or lack of religion. I'm fine with discussion, debate, and disagreement. However, accusations and name calling I'm not fond of. Maybe I misunderstood what "line of thinking" @jackiesmom324 was referencing, I don't know.
New UO..... people wishing my DH a happy fathers day. he even said it himself, "thats for next year." it's a sweet thought from people, but secretly we were both like uh no.
Me: 31 DH: 32 DH since 12.2009 Married 08.2013 EDD 12.2017
AFM sex=gender, gender=sex. I believe both to be God given physical characteristics of your genetics.
The line of thinking that just because you believe something that has to be the only perspective without leaving room for the experiences of others and the different life experiences they may have. Honestly I've never had trouble with my gender identity but just like people have inherent differences in what they believe like you are able to believe, people also have differences in how they experience gender. I just have never felt the need to tell them "the truth" about their experiences as I do not share those experiences and can not know. I can believe them and do what I can to be a helpful decent neighbor, colleague , friend etc. It worries me that you have gone out of your way to share your feelings on this as an unpopular opinion as it does not seem to come from a place of earnestly, warmth and love as you suggest. Instead it comes off as judgemental and invalidating of someone with a different experience than your own.
@jackiesmom324 Ok, I fear that I am being gravely misunderstood. Just to be clear I am not discounting anyone else's experience. I originally posted here because I saw all over that people were being slammed for not using the word that has been deemed by others to be "correct". I was simply sharing what I find to be "correct". I am the only one who is being called names for my beliefs. I am being told that my opinion is stupid and that I'm hateful and close minded. The flip side of my opinion has been expressed many times over as fact and no one has called them out as bring close minded even though my opinion is being blantently discounted. Please tell me how this is consistent. I AM NOT SAYING that anyone is wrong. I am expressing my beliefs and if you are as tolerant as you claim to be then they will be respected the same as anyone else's.
This belief is what causes people to live in fear for being themselves and leads to suicide. This is NOT "I like chicken and you like steak" opinion difference and you are correct-I cannot respect it. I cannot see the other side of this, and I don't believe it deserves respect. Do you think children wake up and decide to be gay? Do you believe it's ok to be gay as long you don't act on your feelings? That is asking someone to be who they are not, and pretend to live a life just because you don't find it to be "correct". The responses are trying to get you to understand that this way of thinking is NOT ok. Whether you hide it behind religion or something else, it's not ok and it will never be ok. This thinking is archaic and detrimental to our society, and deserves a call out.
@jackiesmom324 Ok, I fear that I am being gravely misunderstood. Just to be clear I am not discounting anyone else's experience. I originally posted here because I saw all over that people were being slammed for not using the word that has been deemed by others to be "correct". I was simply sharing what I find to be "correct". I am the only one who is being called names for my beliefs. I am being told that my opinion is stupid and that I'm hateful and close minded. The flip side of my opinion has been expressed many times over as fact and no one has called them out as bring close minded even though my opinion is being blantently discounted. Please tell me how this is consistent. I AM NOT SAYING that anyone is wrong. I am expressing my beliefs and if you are as tolerant as you claim to be then they will be respected the same as anyone else's.
uh, i'm sorry, what? you want to call out those of us (myself included) that correct people for using gender and sex as equivalent for being "close-minded"...? you think your opinion is entitled to be held up as equal to those of us that have educated ourselves on the SCIENTIFIC, BIOLOGICAL TRUTH?
you are entitled, as everyone in this country, to freedom of religion. you are entitled to your beliefs. you are NOT entitled to having those beliefs upheld "fairly and equally" with any other person's beliefs, particularly in situations where your beliefs are contrary to established scientific and medical opinion, just because you think it's not fair. i assume you believe the universe was created by God. many other people believe in things like the big bang theory and evolution. does that make them "close-minded" because their beliefs have the nerve to be different from those you uphold in your religion?
ideally we can all post here, with us each having our own systems of belief. however, if you expect to post an opinion like yours without anyone becoming upset, i think your expectations are off. it's one thing to say that you believe in God or creationism or whatever and another thing to specifically talk about gender and sex being the same thing and act like this opinion is not, in fact, against common consensus AND HURTFUL to a portion of your fellow human population.
Met: September 2005Married: October 2008 DS: 09/2014
If this were a true opinion I would get it but it's not. It's fact. It's like you are trying to argue 2+2 does not equal 4. It's simply not true, no matter what reasoning and justification you try and give.
Haha objectively true? The only thing that is objectively true is that a person is born with XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes. Everything else is opinion and person belief which is what I'm expressing. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you, that's it.
Haha objectively true? The only thing that is objectively true is that a person is born with XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes. Everything else is opinion and person belief which is what I'm expressing. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you, that's it.
I usually stay out of heated topics. But that's scientifically not true. It is not as simple as being born with XY or XX. First, scientifically, there have been people that have been born with sexual gene mutations, (getically XY but have female genitalia for example). Additionally, those who have have had the NIPT can verify that there are other sex chromosomal issues that can take place. So it's not cut and dry XY and XX. I will try and attach my personal genetic paperwork so you can see that there are other scientific reason it's not so.
@GraysonsMama - Legit questions for you. There are more scientific studies finding that there is a biological differences between transgender and cisgendered (the scientific word for those who identify as the same gender as their sex).
Are you aware they exist? Do you just not believe in the science or these studies? Do you think the studies are invalid or don't prove what others see them as proving? Do you think the evidence just isn't strong enough to challenge your belief? I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it appears that this opinion you have is tied to religion. If that's true would you hold that belief because it's what your religion tells you to be true, no matter what other evidence is put in front of you?
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32 TTC Since 11/2015 #1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
@Tennis11785 Yes, many of my beliefs are tied to religion but I don't hold my beliefs because it is what my religion tells me to be true but rather what I believe God tells me to be true. I am so willing to have an open conversation. If you would like to, reference a specific scientific study and we can talk about it.
Re: UO 6/15
Married: Nov 2015
Team Pink!
@AmeliaBedelia1119 I get what you mean.
I will say the other night DD took one of her dolls and was pretending to breastfeed it. I took a pic and used the hashtag #normalizebreastfeeding
So when I saw your original u/o post about this I chuckled and wanted to share this cute thing that happened.
edited to add more!
Together since May 19, 2001
Baby #1 was born in May 2013.
Diagnosed : unexplained infertility
6 rounds of IUI and a MC 2/2014, rainbow twins 4/2015
TTC #3 5/2016
Restarted Fertility tx
IUI 2 rounds, baby girl 12/17
Also... hot damn. I was telling my Sept '09 mommy friends that the Bump has reaaaallllly changed since back in the day. This post makes me think maybe it hasn't! Yay for entertainment.
Gavin - 8/27/10
*TW*
Gabriel - 2nd tri loss 5/17/16 Trisomy 18 & 21
Hope - 2nd tri loss 12/7/16 complications from pneumonia
When I have said I am excited to learn the gender of my child, I have meant that I am excited to know more about him -- which right now is limited, for all of us, to the observable traits of their physical form and behavior. As soon as my child expresses any sort of gender preference of their own (or other pieces of their self-directed identity), it will be honored and celebrated.
The #normalizebreastfeeding comments are making me chuckle. I guess as a girl who has been large-chested since an abnormally early age, and still traumatized by the amount of unwanted attention it has brought me over the years, the tits-in-your-face breastfeeding brigade has always been a mystery to me. Shrug.
@barrbaby-2 that graphic is excellent. thanks for posting! opening minds and educating as you go, high five
Met: September 2005 Married: October 2008 DS: 09/2014
This is probably due to the group of moms I usually hang around in (babywearing groups = tend to be more attachment parents, natural mommas) but I kind of feel like formula feeding is sometimes bashed more (particularly in the international groups) and because of that the whole #normalizebreastfeeding movement confounds me. I feel like it has been normalized at this point.
Adding that i also breastfed both of my children, each for several months, and I never felt like anyone was judging me. Maybe I just live in a progressive area.
My UO::
I don't think there is anything wrong with using those children's backpacks with leashes. As long as you're not dragging or lurching your kid around, they are a perfectly justifiable safety gear.
Any parent who judges another for using them has obviously never experienced a dangerous situation with a child who has no regard for personal safety.
In the words of Cam from Modern Family, "I'd sew a kangaroo pouch onto my midriff if it meant it'd keep my child safe."
Sidenote: reading this was the best use of my pregnancy insomina so far.
But man!
You all redeemed it for me!
But I just checked before bed and now I'm too tired to respond... I will be back
2- The snark is unreal and I love it
3- #normalizebreastfeeding is awesome, but I agree with everyone else. Its going over the top. How about #normalizeFEDisBEST? I got sooooo much shit for actually needing to use formula (flat nipples, lazy latch, low supply)
4- I also agree with the post on SO's. DH should be assisting in raising our kids, and I shouldn't have to praise him for it to continually get him to do things. I do praise him when he does things all on his own (like when he lets me sleep in and takes DD down the street to pick up breakfast pastries and coffee for us, or when we plans a family outing and surprises us). But I think that there is way more to being an awesome SO than taking care of your shared children. What happened to Date Night? I can't praise my husband for these things because he's so consumed with making sure that DD is happy. What about US?!
My UO is I really don't understand how y'all have so much free time to come play!! Lol. I only have 1 kid, I'm a SAHM, and I just don't have the same time to be on here like I did when I was pregnant with DD. I apologize for being a "drive-by"/lurker, I just don't have that same free time anymore.
Sorry I'm so late to the discussion this was a hell week for me
@GraysonsMama I wish you all the best. I hope that you may take the comments directed to you as people trying to show you another perspective and show you how hurtful this line of thinking can be. I hope you can see how it may be a little off step with the claim of trying to be a compassionate religious individual. At the end of the day I think we can all make the world a better place if we all try to do less judging and more listening as everyone is on a unique journey and trajectory in life that can be very different from our own. I don't think that means however that our differences need to necessarily divide us in judgement or hurtful words or behaviors
AFM sex=gender, gender=sex. I believe both to be God given physical characteristics of your genetics.
The line of thinking that just because you believe something that has to be the only perspective without leaving room for the experiences of others and the different life experiences they may have. Honestly I've never had trouble with my gender identity but just like people have inherent differences in what they believe like you are able to believe, people also have differences in how they experience gender. I just have never felt the need to tell them "the truth" about their experiences as I do not share those experiences and can not know. I can believe them and do what I can to be a helpful decent neighbor, colleague , friend etc. It worries me that you have gone out of your way to share your feelings on this as an unpopular opinion as it does not seem to come from a place of earnestly, warmth and love as you suggest. Instead it comes off as judgemental and invalidating of someone with a different experience than your own.
Do you think children wake up and decide to be gay? Do you believe it's ok to be gay as long you don't act on your feelings? That is asking someone to be who they are not, and pretend to live a life just because you don't find it to be "correct".
The responses are trying to get you to understand that this way of thinking is NOT ok. Whether you hide it behind religion or something else, it's not ok and it will never be ok. This thinking is archaic and detrimental to our society, and deserves a call out.
you are entitled, as everyone in this country, to freedom of religion. you are entitled to your beliefs. you are NOT entitled to having those beliefs upheld "fairly and equally" with any other person's beliefs, particularly in situations where your beliefs are contrary to established scientific and medical opinion, just because you think it's not fair. i assume you believe the universe was created by God. many other people believe in things like the big bang theory and evolution. does that make them "close-minded" because their beliefs have the nerve to be different from those you uphold in your religion?
ideally we can all post here, with us each having our own systems of belief. however, if you expect to post an opinion like yours without anyone becoming upset, i think your expectations are off. it's one thing to say that you believe in God or creationism or whatever and another thing to specifically talk about gender and sex being the same thing and act like this opinion is not, in fact, against common consensus AND HURTFUL to a portion of your fellow human population.
Met: September 2005 Married: October 2008 DS: 09/2014
If this were a true opinion I would get it but it's not. It's fact. It's like you are trying to argue 2+2 does not equal 4. It's simply not true, no matter what reasoning and justification you try and give.
Married: Nov 2015
Team Pink!
And this is incredibly rude.
Are you aware they exist? Do you just not believe in the science or these studies? Do you think the studies are invalid or don't prove what others see them as proving? Do you think the evidence just isn't strong enough to challenge your belief? I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it appears that this opinion you have is tied to religion. If that's true would you hold that belief because it's what your religion tells you to be true, no matter what other evidence is put in front of you?
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32
TTC Since 11/2015
#1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17