I think both yelling and spankings can play a roll in raising your children. We've decided to spank when things involve our child's safety.... up until this point he has not gotten a real spanking, but a slap on the hand a couple of times. When I say "danger" now he will gently slap his hand and avoid whatever it I'm talking about. I have literally only slapped his hand maybe 4 times but he understood quickly to avoid things when I say are dangerous. Personally, @soberkfell I think it was totally fine for you to yell a little at your DS when he pulled your hair. He realized that he did something wrong and felt bad about it (which IMO he should). I also say this not knowing how old your DS is but my 15 month old when I raise my voice a little he knows he should not do something. The other day he had a 12m old friend come over and he went over and smacked the boy on the head (he was just trying to get his attention). I raised my voice and yelled that he shouldn't do that. He then went over and gently patted the boy on the head GREAT! He learned that he shouldn't do it.
Where I think parents go wrong is yelling ALL the time. My sister is constantly yelling at her preteen kids and never sits down and just talks to them about their actions. I think all yelling and no explaining/rationalizing creates a huge problem and a lack of respect for both sides. which unfortunately is what is happening in my sisters house
That's what I was trying to get at. I didn't want to have anyone over my house growing up because that's all that was done by my mother was yelling. My parents are divorced, I never remember my dad hitting or yelling at us. He would have tone though. I actually had to sit down with my husband and told him we aren't doing what his dad did, grab under the arm and pinch. I don't want to do that. Taking your child to the side and handling the unwanted behavior to me is a better method. I want to lead by example when I have to scold my kids. I'm an avid F word user and I'm trying to also get that under control. As a FTM there's going to be a lot of learning with this, where to set boundaries, set appropriate punishment to misbehaving. I just know it's going to be important for my husband and I to be on the exact same page 100% of the time and leave no openness for the kids going to the easier going parent.
Me 28 DH 30 Married May 16th, 2015 EDD July 1st July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
@elenabrent I don't enjoy that kind of play either. I have tried but it usually ends up with them telling me exactly what to do anyway so it completely defeats the purpose. I've gotten really good at distracting and deflecting them lol.
Now ask me to build a castle or fort and I'm in 100%!!
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
@KASG I agree. My nephew who is 5 NEVER gets spankings and he is a TERROR. Like, he makes me scared to have kids he acts so badly. However, my nieces (another sister) spanks her children and honestly they are angels. Of course every now and then they have their moments but for the most part they are very good children. I do have to add that I agree spankings and beatings are not the same. If you are leaving bruising or bleeding on your child I think that constitutes abuse. But if you are disciplining them with spankings I think that is good parenting. (not saying not giving spankings is not good parenting) if you find a way to discipline your child without spankings and it's working for you and your child then I think that's great too.
@ashleighhughes right. Like did I like getting spankings? No. Do I think some were unnecessary/unwarranted? Of course! But am I probably a better citizen for it? HELL YES!
Bopped Murph on the butt this morning. He wouldn't stop getting on top of the counters. At 20 months you can't really has a conversation with them (well you can but it doesn't go over well). After the 10th time getting him off the counter and redirecting and telling him no he just wasn't getting it. That small bop on the butt got my point through.
I dont judge how other people parent. I do it my way and you can do it however the hell you want.
My UO: I actually love hearing everyone's birth stories, horror stories or not, because it makes me feel better to have all of the information. As much information as possible, all the time. Even if it's terrible stories, I feel like the information is worthwhile to have.
_______________________________________________
Me: 33 DH: 32 Married 7/18/15 1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16 Team green turned BLUE! 2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18 Team green turned PINK! Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
My UO: I actually love hearing everyone's birth stories, horror stories or not, because it makes me feel better to have all of the information. As much information as possible, all the time. Even if it's terrible stories, I feel like the information is worthwhile to have.
I agree. Last time around I read all the birth stories and as a FTM found myself so many times being like "WTF that's even a possibility??!" Then when it came my turn I was much more prepared than my husband when things didn't go as planned.
Probably an UO- If you don't know how to code whatever you're requesting, you should have to STFU and take what is given to you. Why do people in marketing who view themselves as "idea people" think their ideas are worth a f**k?! Most of the time thinking one has a great idea even though one has no idea how to execute said idea is actually just being a self-important @$$hole and creating a world of trouble for everyone who actually knows how to execute anything... Ugh. Digital and creative have so many awesome ideas that are ignored for the sake marketing's ego. I wish we could toss most of marketing and PR out the window and watch the company prosper from more input from those who are actual capable instead of the people who just sit around thinking up these "great ideas".
Girl, I feel you. I feeeeeeel you so hard. (I'm a designer, and I was in-house at a big corporation with a huge marketing machine for 5 years. Painful. I freelance now, and my clients seem to be much more respectful of my expertise. It has improved my mental state 1000x.)
@Singingmama10 I definitely think there's a place for raising your voice to your kids, as long as it isn't berating them. Raised voices can be important for stopping a situation or avoiding danger. Or just telling kids that you are royally pissed at their action/choices. That's fine too.
@Taymiller I only deal with kids older than 3 at this point, so I'm sure there's a whole world of logic-less toddlerhood ahead of me that I'll have to navigate. Please try not to laugh at me too much as I eat my words in the next few years!
@ashleighhughes I think there's probably a lot more going on with how your nephew is being raised vs how your nieces are being raised than spankings. Not spanking does not equal not disciplining or setting boundaries.
I am not a hugger. I don't offer hugs, I don't especially enjoy hugs from acquaintance, I get all awkward about them. I love to hug my husband and my dad and my doggies but other than that...
yep x1005834954395375347!
I also don't like it when people touch me lol.. the only people who can are my parents, my DH, and the doctor.
Both of these things. I don't like being hugged by people who are not my family and especially don't care to be touched by people either (with obvious exceptions). I hate how in my male dominated industry I can go to a function and men shake hands but for some reason men who I'm barely acquainted with and are work associates feel compelled to hug or do the awkward cheek kissing thing with me or other women. Creepy, uncomfortable and gross. Plus I freak out about other people's germs. Yuck.
@elenabrent My childhood and yours sound eerily similar. Sometimes my mother would get creative and hit me with a hairbrush or whatever she could find. Once, she got angry with my sister but ran up to me and started choking me. I behaved because I was too scared to do anything that might set her off. I want my child to respect me and only fear of my disappointment. I don't want him to be scared shitless of me. He's extremely mellow so when we raise our voices, he gets it. He has very rarely gotten any sort of physical punishment. If he was a different kid, the punishment would probably be totally different. My nephews on the other hand have only ever been yelled at and spanked. They are constantly confused. When they get spankings, they just wait until the smoke clears and they're back to doing whatever they want. My sister gets upset and frustrated but it's not my place to point out what I think of her parenting style. If she took some time to talk to them instead of screaming at them, they might understand better. I said all this to say, all children are different. If you show a little love and patience, you can figure out what works best for your child.
@Singingmama10 I definitely think there's a place for raising your voice to your kids, as long as it isn't berating them. Raised voices can be important for stopping a situation or avoiding danger. Or just telling kids that you are royally pissed at their action/choices. That's fine too.
@Taymiller I only deal with kids older than 3 at this point, so I'm sure there's a whole world of logic-less toddlerhood ahead of me that I'll have to navigate. Please try not to laugh at me too much as I eat my words in the next few years!
@ashleighhughes I think there's probably a lot more going on with how your nephew is being raised vs how your nieces are being raised than spankings. Not spanking does not equal not disciplining or setting boundaries.
I would never laugh! Well maybe a little. You will figure out what works for you and your kid.
We would get the wooden spoon, and I own a lot of wooden spoons right now. Would I use one on my kids? More than likely no. Like @jlgriff11 said, there's to me personally a difference between a quick swat to the butt and holding a kid over your knee. I think yelling at your child can do just as much harm as physical abuse. That's played more of an impact in my mother and I's relationship and I've actually had to watch myself to not pick up that habit. Parenting is hard.
I think it's less about the way that you deliver the punishment (screaming or hitting) and more about the relationship between the punishment and the crime. I was occasionally spanked/grabbed/had my ear yanked and I was screamed at a lot and both have impacted my relationship with my mom. Mostly because there were massive inconsistencies in when/why I was getting these extreme punishments and when she was mellow about things. My personal issue with spanking is that it isn't a natural consequence. As a teacher I see all the time that consequences that fit the action and are logical results of that action make a lasting impact on the kid, and punishments that are unrelated or hard for the kid to connect to their actions don't make an impact. If a kid throws his dinner all over the floor and then gets spanked for it, it might not make total sense to him why he's getting spanked. If his consequence is to clean up his food and clean the floor, no matter how much he complains or how much time it takes, he'll likely ingest the consequence more seriously and remember it as connected to throwing his food.
Behaviorally speaking this isn't totally true. Punishments make an impact (i.e. decrease the likelihood of the behavior occurring again) when the child finds them aversive. An aversive stimulus is extremely individual and actually varies for each person over time and in different situations. Logical consequences work for some children because at that time the consequence that was applied was aversive and decreased the likelihood of that behavior occurring again. For one child having to clean up their own food might be very aversive because of the time and response effort it takes, spanking might not be as aversive because it's quick. For another child the application of the physical contact might be extremely aversive, but being left alone to clean up your food in peace may not matter. The only thing that "connects" a punishment to a behavior is the latency between the behavior and the consequence. The effectiveness of the punishing event will vary (and punishment is ALWAYS more effective when it's delivered immediately after a behavior and with consistency regardless of what the actual stimulus is)
@megstervt I can only speak to what I've seen work with the children I've taught over the years. In my experience, the vast majority of 3-6 year olds respond incredibly well to structure, boundaries, and natural consequences. And just because a child gets peace from a consequence doesn't mean it isn't a adequate consequence or wasn't effective. Unless your intention is for it to simply be unpleasant/unenjoyable for them. Which is not a mindset I agree with as an educator.
I very distinctly remember enjoying getting a rise out of my mom and then purposely not responding when she lashed out physically/verbally. It was my way of getting back at her for being cruel. I did respond deeply to my dad's rare but serious anger or disappointment. It meant more because it only came when I majorly fucked up. Otherwise his approach (divorced parents, so different rules) was to let me live with the consequences of my mistakes and that was incredibly effective.
Again, I only speak from my experience personally and my years as a Montessori preschool teacher. As PP have said, every kid is different and for some a stern look is enough to totally reset the behavior. Others need a firmer/more serious consequence. I have simply found that when the consequence is logical and they are engaged in a conversation about why you are giving them a consequence, the response is better and the tendency to repeat that behavior is less. You'll obviously always have the kids who could not give a single fuck about anything you do, but there are ways to work with them too that aren't physical.
We would get the wooden spoon, and I own a lot of wooden spoons right now. Would I use one on my kids? More than likely no. Like @jlgriff11 said, there's to me personally a difference between a quick swat to the butt and holding a kid over your knee. I think yelling at your child can do just as much harm as physical abuse. That's played more of an impact in my mother and I's relationship and I've actually had to watch myself to not pick up that habit. Parenting is hard.
Just FYI for anyone considering this type of discipline - it's actually illegal to use a wooden spoon (or any tool) to spank a child. It's legal to use an open hand as long as no mark is left on the child, but illegal to use a closed fist or any instrument (belt, spoon, switch, whatever). That's in my area, anyways... and hopefully elsewhere as well. I know you said you likely wouldn't use one, but just wanted to share that for other people reading this thread. I also totally agree with you that yelling can be just as damaging as physical punishment.
I don't have an issue with my friends and family members who give an occasional swat on the bum, although not my personal discipline style. Anything beyond that I totally disagree with.
My UO: I really hate playing imaginative games with kids. I really like hanging out with kids, I really like doing things with them, but I fucking hate getting down on the floor and playing dinosaurs or whatever. I'm not good at it, it definitely can't be that fun for them because I am absolutely phoning it in, and I try to avoid it at all costs. I'm curious if I'll feel differently when it's my kid instead of my students/nieces, but I doubt it will be.
@elenabrent it probably won't be any different. I love DD and really love watching her play, it's so cute and pretty amazing to see how her imagination is starting to work. I also love dancing, reading, colouring, etc. with her, but HATE it when she makes me play pretend. I think you'll feel the same way about it as you do now, but maybe it'll be easier to do because when it's your kid with the puppy dog eyes asking you to play, it's so hard to say no.
@elenabrent 100% agree with you on the structure and boundaries comment. My point was only that from my perspective and training a punishment is effective when it decreases a behavior. What the actual event is doesn't actually matter in terms of effectiveness. What is a punishment for one child (stern looks, yelling, spanking, talking, taking away iPad time, etc, etc) may not work for another child because at that time it's not an aversive event. Reading your response I think we're actually saying pretty much the same thing, but from two different schools of thought and with slightly different vocab.
Also I want to clarify that the term "aversive" I don't mean painful or damaging. I just mean it's unpleasant in the sense that the child wants to avoid that event happening again, whether that be avoiding Mom yelling, missing recess or having to have a talk about why poking your friend in the eye hurts them.
ETA: In my line of work physical punishment procedures are not ethical so I don't/can't/won't use them and because of background I likely won't use them with my child even though I know they can, in theory, be effective. My child will however be punished at times, and they certainly will be reinforced for positive/desired behaviors.
We would get the wooden spoon, and I own a lot of wooden spoons right now. Would I use one on my kids? More than likely no. Like @jlgriff11 said, there's to me personally a difference between a quick swat to the butt and holding a kid over your knee. I think yelling at your child can do just as much harm as physical abuse. That's played more of an impact in my mother and I's relationship and I've actually had to watch myself to not pick up that habit. Parenting is hard.
Just FYI for anyone considering this type of discipline - it's actually illegal to use a wooden spoon (or any tool) to spank a child. It's legal to use an open hand as long as no mark is left on the child, but illegal to use a closed fist or any instrument (belt, spoon, switch, whatever). That's in my area, anyways... and hopefully elsewhere as well. I know you said you likely wouldn't use one, but just wanted to share that for other people reading this thread. I also totally agree with you that yelling can be just as damaging as physical punishment.
I don't have an issue with my friends and family members who give an occasional swat on the bum, although not my personal discipline style. Anything beyond that I totally disagree with.
I don't believe in spanking or using a tool ie belt, spoon, stick, switch, cattle prod, or a sack of oranges on a child. I just want to make that 100% perfectly clear. I would hope like you said we've evolved from our parents reprimanding techniques.
Me 28 DH 30 Married May 16th, 2015 EDD July 1st July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
My UO: I actually love hearing everyone's birth stories, horror stories or not, because it makes me feel better to have all of the information. As much information as possible, all the time. Even if it's terrible stories, I feel like the information is worthwhile to have.
I'm obsessed with birth stories. I've been reading them, listening to The Birth Hour podcast (you should listen to it!), etc. and obviously I won't know until July but I feel like they give me a much better idea as a FTM of what could happen during birth.
What would you STM's and TTM's do then in this situation because I'm bound and determined not to raise my boys like this and I'm not really sure how to go about preventing it.
My nephew Maddox is going to be two this month. He is adorable, precious, fun, and an absolute holy terror. He growls, spits, bites, hits, bangs his head, screams- he won't eat regularly, he throws things, he kicks, he's just awful. The biting and growling happens when he pretends he's a dinosaur so I can understand that he's not really necessarily being "mean" all the time, but sometimes he does it just for spite.
I have to think it has to do with his home life. My sister-in-law (to be) obviously loves him and cares for him very much- but she goes to school and does not have a regular schedule- she's in school part time and works as a waitress part time. My brother is a tattoo artist and works late nights and also has a very irregular schedule. Maddox has never taken naps on a schedule, never eats on a schedule, is rarely in bed before 10, sleeps in because dad or mom sleeps in.
His mom has had some really rough times when he was very little- and she's only 23. Her mom died when she was pregnant from cancer- her dad died when Maddox was a baby of liver failure (alcoholic), leaving her to raise both her son and her little (16 year old) sister. Then last Easter her older sister died from overdose. So you can imagine the kind of life she's had- lots of stress. Their house (that her parents left in major debt) is falling down around their ears and I know she's super stressed about it. The room they had has black mold so all three of them are sleeping on the couch. So I get it- he's not in a place that is the most stable and that must be part of the reason for his behavior, right? He's well-loved, he's fed when he decides to eat- he's got clean clothes and a roof over his house- it's not really
She won't "punish" him. Never so much as a swat on the butt. She puts him in time-out in another room and he screams for five minutes and then she goes and gets him. But the behavior doesn't change. Is the cause really his schedule and his lack of structure? Her lack of discipline beyond "Don't do that Maddox, it's not nice."? How do I keep his behavior from rubbing off on my kids? He's only two, is it just a phase? I know the terrible two thing but bah.
Adam and I are the same when it comes to discipline. Swats when needed. Explanation. Structure. Consistency. We hope that's enough to make our kids not turn into dragons. Makes me nervous!
Offside: I did get a ping pong paddle broken over my ass once. Heh.
My UO: I really hate playing imaginative games with kids. I really like hanging out with kids, I really like doing things with them, but I fucking hate getting down on the floor and playing dinosaurs or whatever. I'm not good at it, it definitely can't be that fun for them because I am absolutely phoning it in, and I try to avoid it at all costs. I'm curious if I'll feel differently when it's my kid instead of my students/nieces, but I doubt it will be.
@elenabrent it probably won't be any different. I love DD and really love watching her play, it's so cute and pretty amazing to see how her imagination is starting to work. I also love dancing, reading, colouring, etc. with her, but HATE it when she makes me play pretend. I think you'll feel the same way about it as you do now, but maybe it'll be easier to do because when it's your kid with the puppy dog eyes asking you to play, it's so hard to say no.
Yeah, I'm like this, too. I was really proud of myself one time, months ago, when I avoided a huge tantrum with "Let's tell a story with your toys!" and made up this weird/fun story she participated in and it was a blast. BUT. Then she wanted me to do it every day. Um, kid, I don't watch the same TV episode or read the same book every day, you don't need this one made up story every day. And if I tried to change it up, she'd be like "No! That's not how it goes!" so all the fun of it was zapped (for me only).
After diverting her enough times, she's off that particular one, but pretend in general isn't so fun for me. And it's weird because I remember loving it as a kid, but I liked playing pretend by myself with my dolls/toys. Hint, hint, kiddo.
I know it's a ways off, but I'm reallllly looking forward to this kid having her little sister to play these kinds of games with.
So is it weird that I actually love playing pretend with children? I always got along better with kids than I did adults TBH, at family reunions even as an adult I was off playing with the kids. I think it's because I actually still have a quite an active imagination.
We would get the wooden spoon, and I own a lot of wooden spoons right now. Would I use one on my kids? More than likely no. Like @jlgriff11 said, there's to me personally a difference between a quick swat to the butt and holding a kid over your knee. I think yelling at your child can do just as much harm as physical abuse. That's played more of an impact in my mother and I's relationship and I've actually had to watch myself to not pick up that habit. Parenting is hard.
Just FYI for anyone considering this type of discipline - it's actually illegal to use a wooden spoon (or any tool) to spank a child. It's legal to use an open hand as long as no mark is left on the child, but illegal to use a closed fist or any instrument (belt, spoon, switch, whatever). That's in my area, anyways... and hopefully elsewhere as well. I know you said you likely wouldn't use one, but just wanted to share that for other people reading this thread. I also totally agree with you that yelling can be just as damaging as physical punishment.
I don't have an issue with my friends and family members who give an occasional swat on the bum, although not my personal discipline style. Anything beyond that I totally disagree with.
I don't believe in spanking or using a tool ie belt, spoon, stick, switch, cattle prod, or a sack of oranges on a child. I just want to make that 100% perfectly clear. I would hope like you said we've evolved from our parents reprimanding techniques.
That's how I thought you intended your post @oneliloaktree13 , I meant to say that in my comment but might not have been clear enough. I was mostly posting about the legalities for lurkers or anyone else reading who might think it's not a huge deal to use something like a spoon or switch, in particular, which were somewhat acceptable in recent history. Even if someone thinks it's no big deal, they may be swayed by the fact that if they use, say, a switch, and their child tells his/her teacher, there may end up being MCFD/CPS involvement or even worse.
My UO: Just because we're Facebook friends and both pregnant at the same time doesn't mean that we're all of a sudden pregnancy buddies and need to swap stories about symptoms, birth fears, and shit like that. I support you, I'm happy for you, but I'm not going to hold your hand through these 40 weeks because frankly, I've got enough going on with myself.
@elldel YES!! I have an old classmate I am FB friends with and suddenly everything is a competition. She is due two days after me (but plans on inducing a week before me, justsoyaknow). Every single conversation makes me stabby for no good reason.
@elenabrent they are being raised very different. Structure and discipline in one house and NO structure and NO discipline in the other house. Obviously the children with structure and discipline in their homes behave better than my nephew who will blatantly look you in the eyes and do something you tell him not to do just to see if he can get a reaction out of you.
@jlgriff11 different strokes, man. I think some adults really like playing imaginative games with kids and others loathe it. I think both are great though, as long as you're interacting with your kids in a meaningful way.
Re: your nephew. My guess is a total lack of structure/discipline/routine and a chaotic home life is to blame for a lot of his behaviors. It's hard to prevent behaviors from spreading between kids though, I see it a lot where something like baby talk will spread through the class like wildfire. I have no advice there, I'm sorry!
We would get the wooden spoon, and I own a lot of wooden spoons right now. Would I use one on my kids? More than likely no. Like @jlgriff11 said, there's to me personally a difference between a quick swat to the butt and holding a kid over your knee. I think yelling at your child can do just as much harm as physical abuse. That's played more of an impact in my mother and I's relationship and I've actually had to watch myself to not pick up that habit. Parenting is hard.
Just FYI for anyone considering this type of discipline - it's actually illegal to use a wooden spoon (or any tool) to spank a child. It's legal to use an open hand as long as no mark is left on the child, but illegal to use a closed fist or any instrument (belt, spoon, switch, whatever). That's in my area, anyways... and hopefully elsewhere as well. I know you said you likely wouldn't use one, but just wanted to share that for other people reading this thread. I also totally agree with you that yelling can be just as damaging as physical punishment.
I don't have an issue with my friends and family members who give an occasional swat on the bum, although not my personal discipline style. Anything beyond that I totally disagree with.
I don't believe in spanking or using a tool ie belt, spoon, stick, switch, cattle prod, or a sack of oranges on a child. I just want to make that 100% perfectly clear. I would hope like you said we've evolved from our parents reprimanding techniques.
That's how I thought you intended your post @oneliloaktree13 , I meant to say that in my comment but might not have been clear enough. I was mostly posting about the legalities for lurkers or anyone else reading who might think it's not a huge deal to use something like a spoon or switch, in particular, which were somewhat acceptable in recent history. Even if someone thinks it's no big deal, they may be swayed by the fact that if they use, say, a switch, and their child tells his/her teacher, there may end up being MCFD/CPS involvement or even worse.
I gotcha, I figured same reason to be more than 100% clear on the same front. Better to be on 100% on this type of thing than leave any room for argument.
Me 28 DH 30 Married May 16th, 2015 EDD July 1st July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
@jlgriff11 Structure is so important to ALL children. Now that I've witnessed firsthand what a lack of structure can do to a child, I am strict about keeping my kid on a schedule. He only deviates from it once in a blue moon. Once upon a time, if he went to bed maybe an hour later than normal, he would have night terrors. But, that's just how it affects him specifically. I think like @elenabrent said, the chaotic state he's living in is not promoting good habits and it's adversely affecting his behavior. I hope things turn around for them soon because it's not too late for him yet.
ETA: We also stick to our guns when it comes to discipline. That's very important.
I was spanked as a child, and we spank in our household. Growing up, I could have cared less if I was spanked, and it hasn't bothered me to this day. The thing that bothers me, is the emotional relationship that I have with my mom....well, lack thereof. That is what makes me sad when I look back on my childhood, and made me worry about if I would have a good emotional relationship with my child(ren). When it comes to our DD, there are different consequences for different situations: time outs, talks, taking things away (and having to earn it back), losing privileges, etc. Spanking is the last resort, but it does happen here and there. MH's cousins, they spank their kids all of the time and their kids don't even care. It doesn't even phase them because they are use to it. A lot of times with DD, we just have to talk to her and explain "why" she cannot do something. But she is four, and when she was younger, it was hard since she couldn't understand.
My UO is that I hate the pictures when people hold their hand on their belly and form a heart. It has been way overdone, and now I just roll my eyes at it.
I was spanked as a child, and we spank in our household. Growing up, I could have cared less if I was spanked, and it hasn't bothered me to this day. The thing that bothers me, is the emotional relationship that I have with my mom....well, lack thereof. That is what makes me sad when I look back on my childhood, and made me worry about if I would have a good emotional relationship with my child(ren). When it comes to our DD, there are different consequences for different situations: time outs, talks, taking things away (and having to earn it back), losing privileges, etc. Spanking is the last resort, but it does happen here and there. MH's cousins, they spank their kids all of the time and their kids don't even care. It doesn't even phase them because they are use to it. A lot of times with DD, we just have to talk to her and explain "why" she cannot do something. But she is four, and when she was younger, it was hard since she couldn't understand.
Just as looking at it from a different angle, would there be some correlation between them not listening because they have been so desensitized to spanking? In that sense I think it would be more beneficial for them to try different methods. This is just me typing out loud.
Me 28 DH 30 Married May 16th, 2015 EDD July 1st July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
@jlgriff11 After being a nanny for a bazillion kids....it sounds exactly like the other commenters have mentioned: a lack of structure, consistency, and consequences. One of the previous families that I worked with, were all on the same page when it came to how the kids would be "raised" during my time with them, and with their parents. We were all on the same page of "strict, but fun". Since the kids knew that the rules with mom and dad were the same as the rules with nanny (and vice versa), they all knew what was expected of them. They were expected to have respect, use manners, take care of their responsibilities, etc. Things like "We don't jump on the couch" means we don't jump on it today, tomorrow, at our house, at someone else's house, and so on. And there were NO empty threats. We did all kinds of fun shit, but that was because of the fact that we were all consistent with them.....I had ZERO issues taking all four kids out and about to public places, by myself (at the end of my job with them, the kids were 6yr, 3yr, 3yr, and 1yr). We went to the zoo, to festivals in the area, pumpkin patches, playdates, sit down restaurants, stores, everything under the sun. We were big on "you get what you get, and you don't throw a fit" (or it is taken away and you get nothing), we will leave wherever we are if you are acting out and you have gone through your three reminders, and sticking to a schedule a majority of the time (sometimes we would alter it if there was something special going on).
Fast forward to my current nanny kids (who are almost 3.5yr, twins, and I have had them since they were 4mo)....in all honesty, they are complete nightmares, and their parents are 100% to blame. The dad will punish and the coddle right afterwards. The mom will give them whatever they want, just to shut them up. Oh, your sister had the blue cup...and you want the blue cup? Let me stand here and try and convince your sister to give you the blue cup....even though she has been drinking out of it all day, while you throw a massive fit....just to shut you up. They are giving rewards for everything under the sun, their dad will even run to the toy store if they don't crap their pants during 2.5 hours of preschool. All of their threats are empty, so the kids know they won't get in trouble for a single thing that they do. They are told "no", but then as soon as they throw a fit, their parents give in. Which leads to more fits, more giving in, and them never being told "no". These kids have been running this household, since they were 18 months old. I am strict with them when they are with me, and they thrive on it, and are good 75% of the time when they are with me. As soon as the parents are around (or even grandma), shit hits the fan and it is like a light switch has been flipped....they are the type of kids that you want to run away from, and never look back. The parents own personal friends, cannot even handle hanging out with them if the kids are involved, because the kids are such terrors. I don't take these kids anywhere: no kids open gym, no story time, no pumpkin patches, no zoo.....nothing.
With DD, we aren't on a strict schedule when it comes to our daily activities, but she was never a kid that really needed that (she was okay to go with the flow, although not a lot of kids are that way and like a consistent schedule better). But because she knows that we are consistent when it comes to her behavior and what is expected of her, she is a really good kid (and I am not saying that just because I am her mom....I wouldn't deny it if she was a little turd). We are able to take her anywhere and do anything with her, and I have only had to leave a store once because of a tantrum. Its the norm to have other people request to take her and spend time with her, because they know that it will be a fun experience and she won't be a handful.
When your LO is born, you will also find that sometimes your relationships with other friends/family members with kids might change. I remember being so excited to be pregnant around the same time as my friends, I thought we would always be doing things together with our kids. But different parenting styles can change your friendships. I hardly hang out with any friends who are more into "hands off" parenting, not only because those kids destroy my house with their behavior (and never have any consequences), but it gives me anxiety and stresses me out. So then it isn't enjoyable to hang out with them. And I don't want DD seeing that behavior, and wondering why her little friend is getting away with that behavior, and she gets in trouble for acting like that. In the end, I have found that I hang out with more people that parent closer to how I parent, and it is much more enjoyable.
I was spanked as a child, and we spank in our household. Growing up, I could have cared less if I was spanked, and it hasn't bothered me to this day. The thing that bothers me, is the emotional relationship that I have with my mom....well, lack thereof. That is what makes me sad when I look back on my childhood, and made me worry about if I would have a good emotional relationship with my child(ren). When it comes to our DD, there are different consequences for different situations: time outs, talks, taking things away (and having to earn it back), losing privileges, etc. Spanking is the last resort, but it does happen here and there. MH's cousins, they spank their kids all of the time and their kids don't even care. It doesn't even phase them because they are use to it. A lot of times with DD, we just have to talk to her and explain "why" she cannot do something. But she is four, and when she was younger, it was hard since she couldn't understand.
Just as looking at it from a different angle, would there be some correlation between them not listening because they have been so desensitized to spanking? In that sense I think it would be more beneficial for them to try different methods. This is just me typing out loud.
I totally think so. They know that if they do something wrong, there is a 50% chance that they will get spanked. And a majority of the time, whichever parent does the spanking, the other one will then not back up the first parent, comfort the child, and get upset with the parent that did the spanking. Its a hot mess, and for the past couple of years, the kids have been kind of "whatever...." when they get spanked. So MH and I were always under the same agreement, that spanking would be the last resort, so when it happened, our kids knew they were in BIG trouble. That is kind of how my dad was (and MH's dad was) with spankings....they were a last resort, and we knew not to do whatever it was, again.
With DD, we usually make sure to first tell her "Why", so she knows why we are telling her not to do something. Then we move onto the punishment....either a time out, something is taken away, privilege is lost, etc (depending on what it is that she did). And then its a spanking. Its pretty rare, that we actually get to the spanking part....usually she knows what is coming next, after her first punishment. Lol! But we are always 100% consistent about it, and we always back each other up when it comes to how she is being disciplined, and we always have a talk with her on why she got in trouble and how she can change things for next time....
I remember every time my parents would spank me I'd just tighten up my little butt muscles and tell them I didn't care like a little brat hahah. I have no idea if I will spank or not. I'm not against it, I just have no experience raising children yet so I'm really just planning to figure things out as I go. I have some ideas of how I plan to do things, of course, but overall I'm keeping an open mind.
I have a feeling I'm screwed with regards to child behaviour if me as a child is anything to go by. As my mum says I was a silent terror. I didn't talk until I was 4 (they don't think I couldn't, they think I just didn't want to, because once I began talking I immediately spoke in full sentences). She never knew what I was up to, because I was sneaky and didn't make a sound. I didn't throw tantrums or anything I just out-stubborned people- at the age of 3 I beat my nana. She was adamant I was not leaving the dinner table until I ate my dinner and I sat there for 6 hours before she gave up. If someone made me eat something I immediately made myself sick. If I was continuously served something I didn't want to eat, I just didn't eat. I didn't eat for about a week at one point because I was staying with my nana and she refused to give in to me. At this point they ended up just giving me whatever I wanted because I was loosing large amounts of weight. They couldn't spank me because I immediately bruised, no matter how soft they hit me. I pretended to ignore them and basically just did my own thing so yelling did absolutely nothing. I was basically unpunishable because I just didn't care.
After all this I still turned out ok (IMHO haha). I just did everything my way and there was no way you could change my mind. If my child is like this I don't have any clue what to do, so lets hope he turns out like DH, who was a little angel to his parents.
@SparkySunshine HAHA.....I have finally gotten my husband to agree that I can stay home for awhile, and "nanny" my own kids. I have always spent so much time putting everyone else's kids first (even as a parent), that I am excited to focus on my own family/household, and finally put them first!
My mom swatted my butt twice in my whole life, one of which I don't even remember, the other was for running into the street after stepping on a bee. I don't remember the swat, I remember the bee sting. My mom never yelled when I was little (she did in my teens, but teenagers are assholes), but I remember her having the ability to look at me in such a way that made me believe I was about to burst into flames. @TattoosandLace I feel you on hearing 'I'm disappointed in you' being hands down the most terrifying thing I experienced in childhood. I still live in fear of disappointing my mom, and I think that's a good thing.
My UO: When I see people with a car full of school aged kids speeding in a school zone, I fantasize about pulling them from their car and beating them in front of their children. Just because your spawn is safe in your 2 ton death machine doesn't give you license to mow down someone else's kid because you are in a hurry.
Re: Thursday UO.
Married May 16th, 2015
EDD July 1st
July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
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I do have to add that I agree spankings and beatings are not the same. If you are leaving bruising or bleeding on your child I think that constitutes abuse. But if you are disciplining them with spankings I think that is good parenting. (not saying not giving spankings is not good parenting) if you find a way to discipline your child without spankings and it's working for you and your child then I think that's great too.
I dont judge how other people parent. I do it my way and you can do it however the hell you want.
DH: 32
Married 7/18/15
1st born at 35+4 on 6/6/16
Team green turned BLUE!
2nd born at 38+6 on 8/30/18
Team green turned PINK!
Due with #3 on 6/6/20 Team Green
@Taymiller I only deal with kids older than 3 at this point, so I'm sure there's a whole world of logic-less toddlerhood ahead of me that I'll have to navigate. Please try not to laugh at me too much as I eat my words in the next few years!
@ashleighhughes I think there's probably a lot more going on with how your nephew is being raised vs how your nieces are being raised than spankings. Not spanking does not equal not disciplining or setting boundaries.
I want my child to respect me and only fear of my disappointment. I don't want him to be scared shitless of me. He's extremely mellow so when we raise our voices, he gets it. He has very rarely gotten any sort of physical punishment. If he was a different kid, the punishment would probably be totally different.
My nephews on the other hand have only ever been yelled at and spanked. They are constantly confused. When they get spankings, they just wait until the smoke clears and they're back to doing whatever they want. My sister gets upset and frustrated but it's not my place to point out what I think of her parenting style. If she took some time to talk to them instead of screaming at them, they might understand better.
I said all this to say, all children are different. If you show a little love and patience, you can figure out what works best for your child.
July BMB May Signature Challenge
Behaviorally speaking this isn't totally true. Punishments make an impact (i.e. decrease the likelihood of the behavior occurring again) when the child finds them aversive. An aversive stimulus is extremely individual and actually varies for each person over time and in different situations. Logical consequences work for some children because at that time the consequence that was applied was aversive and decreased the likelihood of that behavior occurring again. For one child having to clean up their own food might be very aversive because of the time and response effort it takes, spanking might not be as aversive because it's quick. For another child the application of the physical contact might be extremely aversive, but being left alone to clean up your food in peace may not matter. The only thing that "connects" a punishment to a behavior is the latency between the behavior and the consequence. The effectiveness of the punishing event will vary (and punishment is ALWAYS more effective when it's delivered immediately after a behavior and with consistency regardless of what the actual stimulus is)
Married: October 2014
TTC #1 since September 2015
I very distinctly remember enjoying getting a rise out of my mom and then purposely not responding when she lashed out physically/verbally. It was my way of getting back at her for being cruel. I did respond deeply to my dad's rare but serious anger or disappointment. It meant more because it only came when I majorly fucked up. Otherwise his approach (divorced parents, so different rules) was to let me live with the consequences of my mistakes and that was incredibly effective.
Again, I only speak from my experience personally and my years as a Montessori preschool teacher. As PP have said, every kid is different and for some a stern look is enough to totally reset the behavior. Others need a firmer/more serious consequence. I have simply found that when the consequence is logical and they are engaged in a conversation about why you are giving them a consequence, the response is better and the tendency to repeat that behavior is less. You'll obviously always have the kids who could not give a single fuck about anything you do, but there are ways to work with them too that aren't physical.
I don't have an issue with my friends and family members who give an occasional swat on the bum, although not my personal discipline style. Anything beyond that I totally disagree with.
@elenabrent 100% agree with you on the structure and boundaries comment. My point was only that from my perspective and training a punishment is effective when it decreases a behavior. What the actual event is doesn't actually matter in terms of effectiveness. What is a punishment for one child (stern looks, yelling, spanking, talking, taking away iPad time, etc, etc) may not work for another child because at that time it's not an aversive event. Reading your response I think we're actually saying pretty much the same thing, but from two different schools of thought and with slightly different vocab.
Also I want to clarify that the term "aversive" I don't mean painful or damaging. I just mean it's unpleasant in the sense that the child wants to avoid that event happening again, whether that be avoiding Mom yelling, missing recess or having to have a talk about why poking your friend in the eye hurts them.
ETA: In my line of work physical punishment procedures are not ethical so I don't/can't/won't use them and because of background I likely won't use them with my child even though I know they can, in theory, be effective. My child will however be punished at times, and they certainly will be reinforced for positive/desired behaviors.
Married: October 2014
TTC #1 since September 2015
Married May 16th, 2015
EDD July 1st
July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
My nephew Maddox is going to be two this month. He is adorable, precious, fun, and an absolute holy terror. He growls, spits, bites, hits, bangs his head, screams- he won't eat regularly, he throws things, he kicks, he's just awful. The biting and growling happens when he pretends he's a dinosaur so I can understand that he's not really necessarily being "mean" all the time, but sometimes he does it just for spite.
I have to think it has to do with his home life. My sister-in-law (to be) obviously loves him and cares for him very much- but she goes to school and does not have a regular schedule- she's in school part time and works as a waitress part time. My brother is a tattoo artist and works late nights and also has a very irregular schedule. Maddox has never taken naps on a schedule, never eats on a schedule, is rarely in bed before 10, sleeps in because dad or mom sleeps in.
His mom has had some really rough times when he was very little- and she's only 23. Her mom died when she was pregnant from cancer- her dad died when Maddox was a baby of liver failure (alcoholic), leaving her to raise both her son and her little (16 year old) sister. Then last Easter her older sister died from overdose. So you can imagine the kind of life she's had- lots of stress. Their house (that her parents left in major debt) is falling down around their ears and I know she's super stressed about it. The room they had has black mold so all three of them are sleeping on the couch. So I get it- he's not in a place that is the most stable and that must be part of the reason for his behavior, right? He's well-loved, he's fed when he decides to eat- he's got clean clothes and a roof over his house- it's not really
She won't "punish" him. Never so much as a swat on the butt. She puts him in time-out in another room and he screams for five minutes and then she goes and gets him. But the behavior doesn't change. Is the cause really his schedule and his lack of structure? Her lack of discipline beyond "Don't do that Maddox, it's not nice."? How do I keep his behavior from rubbing off on my kids? He's only two, is it just a phase? I know the terrible two thing but bah.
Adam and I are the same when it comes to discipline. Swats when needed. Explanation. Structure. Consistency. We hope that's enough to make our kids not turn into dragons. Makes me nervous!
Offside: I did get a ping pong paddle broken over my ass once. Heh.
SORRY ABOUT THE WORD VOMIT OK
After diverting her enough times, she's off that particular one, but pretend in general isn't so fun for me. And it's weird because I remember loving it as a kid, but I liked playing pretend by myself with my dolls/toys. Hint, hint, kiddo.
I know it's a ways off, but I'm reallllly looking forward to this kid having her little sister to play these kinds of games with.
Re: your nephew. My guess is a total lack of structure/discipline/routine and a chaotic home life is to blame for a lot of his behaviors. It's hard to prevent behaviors from spreading between kids though, I see it a lot where something like baby talk will spread through the class like wildfire. I have no advice there, I'm sorry!
Married May 16th, 2015
EDD July 1st
July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
I think like @elenabrent said, the chaotic state he's living in is not promoting good habits and it's adversely affecting his behavior. I hope things turn around for them soon because it's not too late for him yet.
ETA: We also stick to our guns when it comes to discipline. That's very important.
July BMB May Signature Challenge
Married May 16th, 2015
EDD July 1st
July16 May siggy challenge "May the Force be with you"
Fast forward to my current nanny kids (who are almost 3.5yr, twins, and I have had them since they were 4mo)....in all honesty, they are complete nightmares, and their parents are 100% to blame. The dad will punish and the coddle right afterwards. The mom will give them whatever they want, just to shut them up. Oh, your sister had the blue cup...and you want the blue cup? Let me stand here and try and convince your sister to give you the blue cup....even though she has been drinking out of it all day, while you throw a massive fit....just to shut you up. They are giving rewards for everything under the sun, their dad will even run to the toy store if they don't crap their pants during 2.5 hours of preschool. All of their threats are empty, so the kids know they won't get in trouble for a single thing that they do. They are told "no", but then as soon as they throw a fit, their parents give in. Which leads to more fits, more giving in, and them never being told "no". These kids have been running this household, since they were 18 months old. I am strict with them when they are with me, and they thrive on it, and are good 75% of the time when they are with me. As soon as the parents are around (or even grandma), shit hits the fan and it is like a light switch has been flipped....they are the type of kids that you want to run away from, and never look back. The parents own personal friends, cannot even handle hanging out with them if the kids are involved, because the kids are such terrors. I don't take these kids anywhere: no kids open gym, no story time, no pumpkin patches, no zoo.....nothing.
With DD, we aren't on a strict schedule when it comes to our daily activities, but she was never a kid that really needed that (she was okay to go with the flow, although not a lot of kids are that way and like a consistent schedule better). But because she knows that we are consistent when it comes to her behavior and what is expected of her, she is a really good kid (and I am not saying that just because I am her mom....I wouldn't deny it if she was a little turd). We are able to take her anywhere and do anything with her, and I have only had to leave a store once because of a tantrum. Its the norm to have other people request to take her and spend time with her, because they know that it will be a fun experience and she won't be a handful.
When your LO is born, you will also find that sometimes your relationships with other friends/family members with kids might change. I remember being so excited to be pregnant around the same time as my friends, I thought we would always be doing things together with our kids. But different parenting styles can change your friendships. I hardly hang out with any friends who are more into "hands off" parenting, not only because those kids destroy my house with their behavior (and never have any consequences), but it gives me anxiety and stresses me out. So then it isn't enjoyable to hang out with them. And I don't want DD seeing that behavior, and wondering why her little friend is getting away with that behavior, and she gets in trouble for acting like that. In the end, I have found that I hang out with more people that parent closer to how I parent, and it is much more enjoyable.
With DD, we usually make sure to first tell her "Why", so she knows why we are telling her not to do something. Then we move onto the punishment....either a time out, something is taken away, privilege is lost, etc (depending on what it is that she did). And then its a spanking. Its pretty rare, that we actually get to the spanking part....usually she knows what is coming next, after her first punishment. Lol! But we are always 100% consistent about it, and we always back each other up when it comes to how she is being disciplined, and we always have a talk with her on why she got in trouble and how she can change things for next time....
I have a feeling I'm screwed with regards to child behaviour if me as a child is anything to go by. As my mum says I was a silent terror. I didn't talk until I was 4 (they don't think I couldn't, they think I just didn't want to, because once I began talking I immediately spoke in full sentences). She never knew what I was up to, because I was sneaky and didn't make a sound. I didn't throw tantrums or anything I just out-stubborned people- at the age of 3 I beat my nana. She was adamant I was not leaving the dinner table until I ate my dinner and I sat there for 6 hours before she gave up. If someone made me eat something I immediately made myself sick. If I was continuously served something I didn't want to eat, I just didn't eat. I didn't eat for about a week at one point because I was staying with my nana and she refused to give in to me. At this point they ended up just giving me whatever I wanted because I was loosing large amounts of weight. They couldn't spank me because I immediately bruised, no matter how soft they hit me. I pretended to ignore them and basically just did my own thing so yelling did absolutely nothing. I was basically unpunishable because I just didn't care.
After all this I still turned out ok (IMHO haha). I just did everything my way and there was no way you could change my mind. If my child is like this I don't have any clue what to do, so lets hope he turns out like DH, who was a little angel to his parents.
Little boy due July 31st 2016
My UO: When I see people with a car full of school aged kids speeding in a school zone, I fantasize about pulling them from their car and beating them in front of their children. Just because your spawn is safe in your 2 ton death machine doesn't give you license to mow down someone else's kid because you are in a hurry.