I didn't mean to be insulting toward anyone- I was only saying my personal experience. I wasnt saying i find uncircumcised penises gross or anything like that- i was simply saying my personal experience--that i would be taken aback by one because in my 30 years on this planet i have never even seen one. So obviously that would be shocking to me to see one for the first time. Do I think they're gross or that there is something is wrong with an uncircumcised man? Not at all. Maybe I should've worded my post differently. But to whoever said that it's not the social norm to circumcise here in the US, I respectfully disagree. The overall circumcision rate has been over 60% in the US in the last 20 years. In the northern regions in the us it's been closer to 80% This is well documented
Thankfully DH and I both are agreed to circumcise if it's a boy. As a woman, it's what a I prefer in a partner, and DH is circumcised so it's what he knows. Also, I would feel like such a creeper having to peel back the foreskin on my infant son in order to clean him.
You're not supposed to peel back the foreskin on infants. And are you going to feel creepy wiping poop out of all his crevices?
One thing to keep in mind about social norms- trends can change drastically in a decade or two. While you may have heard a locker room conversation making fun of an intact boy, our sons will be growing up with a completely different generation of people. If we want our kids to be intact and free from harassment, we need to keep them intact and teach all children not to make fun of others for body part differences.
Thankfully DH and I both are agreed to circumcise if it's a boy. As a woman, it's what a I prefer in a partner, and DH is circumcised so it's what he knows. Also, I would feel like such a creeper having to peel back the foreskin on my infant son in order to clean him.
Please do not retract the foreskin on your infant son! That would be really painful, unnecessary, and subject it to infection. Leave it alone, we've never had to do any special cleaning on our son or our daughters. When they're adolescents, they can learn how to clean whatever needs cleaning.
This conversation is mind-blowing. If your big concern is your son getting made fun of in a locker room because he isn't circumsised, well then I don't know what to say. You're living in a bubble?
I hope your daughters never get made fun of over the size of their breasts. You can't do anything about that until they are at least teenagers.
Respectfully, there is nothing creepy about interacting with a baby's anatomy. Our daughters come fully equipped with labia and we clean poop out of them because that is what you do. Even their daddies. It's just not a big deal.
Living in a bubble? No I think I'm being very realistic. Being that it is the norm in my area, I'm not going to make my kid the odd one out bc I want to be the progressive parent and stand up to society and fight norms. If you want to go against the norm and you think it's not going to become a problem then you're living in a bubble.
Do you hear yourself @mariaalene? Do you not think kids are going to find something else to make fun of, if they want to? You can't shrink wrap your kid. What are you going to do when he gets teased for way less, or more, serious things?
God forbid anyone goes against the norms? Who thinks like that?
Pretty sure circumcision is the rarity in New Zealand. I'm basing this off what others have said as I have only seen one Kiwi penis. We won't be doing it if we have a boy. My husband and I both see it as unnecessary. We plan to consider moving to the USA within 5 years and even if it was a done deal I wouldn't feel comfortable letting social pressures make my choice for me. I'm not even sure it's as much of a thing as people make it to be...maybe slightly less than half the USA penises I have seen weren't done.
This. The circumcision rate in NZ is I think less than 10%.
ETA: I work in a hospital and we had an American Dr who wanted to circ his son because the thought it was just the thing you did. We didn't even have the supplies to do it, we had to order them in specially for him. Afterward he said he regretted it, he only did it because his older son was circ'ed when they were in America and he didn't want them to look different.
Angel baby June 2013, DD born 22 April 2014, BFP 10 Sept 2015 - Due 22 May 2016
So things not to bring up on TB as it will cause a shit storm
Formula Feeding
Not getting flu shots
Choosing to circumcise your child
Ladies, we are all adults and can all choose what is right for OUR families. A little healthy debate is always informative, but these threads tend to get preachy and feel like others values are pushed on the whole
For the record, we food have my son circumsised. I don't care what anyone else does.
I just don't know what is so wrong with "this is my personal choice, I respect your personal choice without calling it weird and foreskin creepy."
Agreed. I just find the constant combativeness annoying. Live and let live guys. If you want to circumcise, go for it. If not, then don't. We are all adults and able to make our own decisions on how to raise our children.
I can't wait until the bottle vs breast threads start.
I'm still undecided on this yet. Hubby and I talked briefly about this during the weekend and he was like, we don't even know the sex yet, how about we figure this out if it's a boy. His opinion was not to circumcise and let the boy do it when he's older if he wants. I don't think many boys would decide they want to do that because of the pain. I think I'll do more research on it if we find out its a boy, but I'm hoping for a girl. I read the circumcision rate in Wisconsin is 82%, so it seems the norm to do it. I have no idea what my family's men are, and I honestly don't want to know.
So things not to bring up on TB as it will cause a shit storm
Formula Feeding
Not getting flu shots
Choosing to circumcise your child
Ladies, we are all adults and can all choose what is right for OUR families. A little healthy debate is always informative, but these threads tend to get preachy and feel like others values are pushed on the whole
For the record, we food have my son circumsised. I don't care what anyone else does.
I just don't know what is so wrong with "this is my personal choice, I respect your personal choice without calling it weird and foreskin creepy."
Agreed. I just find the constant combativeness annoying. Live and let live guys. If you want to circumcise, go for it. If not, then don't. We are all adults and able to make our own decisions on how to raise our children.
I can't wait until the bottle vs breast threads start.
Do you hear yourself @mariaalene? Do you not think kids are going to find something else to make fun of, if they want to? You can't shrink wrap your kid. What are you going to do when he gets teased for way less, or more, serious things?
God forbid anyone goes against the norms? Who thinks like that?
Obviously circumsision is not the only reason for bullying. It's just the topic of this thread. If you want to talk about if I'll get my teen lasix bc she's bullied for wearing glasses you can start a thread on that. The point is why give your kid one more reason to be different? all they are gonna want to do is fit in.
I don't get the "it's cleaner" comments. If us ladies don't have a problem keeping our lady bits clean (we have folds too, don't we?) then I don't see an issue with an intact penis. Last I read circs are around 50/50 in this country. I wouldn't worry about your intact sons fitting in either.
We circumcised my son and will do it again if we have another boy. Contrary to what people are saying on here the American association of pediatrics recommends it because there is a hygiene advantage. My doc had an adopted brother from a country where it was not common - he got an infection at age 12 and had to be circumcised. In addition a lot of old men can't properly clean themselves and get infections.
I'm all for giving your kid a fighting chance to not put themselves on the spot like but what if they are just...different? And they can't help it? Then what?
You're willing to make a major medical/religious decision based on whether or not your kid will get picked on in the locker room.
It just seems a bit narrow-minded. I'm hoping to raise a kid who celebrates other kid's, and their own, differences, not teach them that the best way to get along is blend in or get made fun of.
It is just a conversation about circumsision, sure, but that kind of attitude really doesn't go far with me, sorry.
Serious question-- @mariaalene how the heck do you know what "the norm" is in your area? Is someone taking a penis poll? Circle if your son has been circumcised... How are you getting this very personal information?
With my son, I left the decision up to MH. I actually have a lot of experience related to circs since my maternity preceptor hated me so I spent the entire rotation assisting with circs. I assisted on 5 OB circs, 3 pedi circs, and 2 bris with a moyel (sp?). I also had to catch a fellow nursing student when he passed out watching one! I also worked in a SNF doing personal care on elderly men with both natural and circs. And I have a friend who was circ'd at age 23. Since all of my knowledge is anecdotal, I don't think it should replace personal feelings or beliefs, but I am more than happy to share more details if you want.
I want more details! Esp. re: nurse assists with the mohel. That's what we'd like: how do folks arrange that? Did you do it in the hospital or in the temple or at home? What did you think of the Mohel's technique? How did it compare to the medical procedure?
My DH is not circumcised. I have to say I live in America (east coast) and from my experience, about 50% of the men I've slept with were not circumcised. I left the decision up to my husband. We did talk about his experience and he was never made fun of growing up, in fact he noted that many of his classmates were also not circumcised. He also has never had any issues with the foreskin. We will show our DS how to properly clean it when the time comes. At this point there really isn't much to it. I think you do what is best for your family and what you're comfortable with.
With my son, I left the decision up to MH. I actually have a lot of experience related to circs since my maternity preceptor hated me so I spent the entire rotation assisting with circs. I assisted on 5 OB circs, 3 pedi circs, and 2 bris with a moyel (sp?). I also had to catch a fellow nursing student when he passed out watching one! I also worked in a SNF doing personal care on elderly men with both natural and circs. And I have a friend who was circ'd at age 23. Since all of my knowledge is anecdotal, I don't think it should replace personal feelings or beliefs, but I am more than happy to share more details if you want.
I want more details! Esp. re: nurse assists with the mohel. That's what we'd like: how do folks arrange that? Did you do it in the hospital or in the temple or at home? What did you think of the Mohel's technique? How did it compare to the medical procedure?
One of the families chose to have the mohel come and perform the bris in a small room off the nursery (the baby had developed jaundice so had to stay a few days longer) and another had the mohel come to the mother's room on the maternity floor because she had complications (first and only time I got to see a post-partum woman my entire rotation!).
I am Christian, but found it absolutely beautiful to hear the religious tradition. It was a little shocking that the mohel "freehanded" it since the OBs and pedis all used a guide. The uncle (I think) held the baby in one and then like the godfather with the other, so I was basically there to offer a binkie with Sweeties or help stem bleeding if something went wrong. Thankfully they both went off without a hitch and the mohel was very skilled (nothing like the Seinfeld episode!). I then taught both families how to care for the circumcised penis which made one of the dads a little woozy, but the circumcisions looked better than most of the ones by the MDs, which surprised me because it seemed so quick like slice and dice. Overall, I could appreciate the tradition and the importance to each family and had long discussions about the religious implications as I did more baby care teaching (bathing, diapering etc)
It's totally up to you, but make a decision with backing. Don't just do it because "that's what everyone else is doing"... Or not doing i guess. Know why you're deciding one way or the other.
We do not plan on circumsicing. My DH is not circumcised, and personally I do not care what the "norm" around my area is. I'm pretty sure DH never got made fun of in school for it either. Either way it doesn't matter to me, I basically just let DH decide.
@mhc13 the reason I believe it is cleaner is only due to the fact that elderly uncircumcised men tend to have issues with keeping it clean. I had a realative who had to have it done late in life because he kept getting infections. It was excruciating for him. I'm not saying it happens a lot but it's something I know happened and even though that's years away I would rather have it done at birth.
I asked DH about it, and he said that if we had a boy then we would be getting him circumcised since he is then our son will be too. That's our decision and we don't really care if anyone else likes it or not.
Serious question-- @mariaalene how the heck do you know what "the norm" is in your area? Is someone taking a penis poll? Circle if your son has been circumcised... How are you getting this very personal information?
Edited: spelling
Bolding added for most-recent numbers per region mentioned here, more recent data in the link above:
"Newborn circumcision rates for the four U.S. census regions showed distinctly different patterns (Tableand Figure 2). For newborns in the Northeast, the overall trend was flat across the 32 years, and no discernible patterns were evident, although annual rates varied between 60.7% (in 2007) and 69.6% (in 1994). In the Midwest, fluctuations in newborn circumcision rates generally mirrored trends in the national rate: declining until the mid-1980s, increasing until 1998, and then declining again through 2010. Rates ranged between 82.9% in 1998 and 68.8% in 2009. In the South, rates of newborn circumcision generally increased from 1979 until 1998, after which they declined. These rates ranged between 53.8% (in 1988) and 66.1% (in 1995). In marked contrast was the trend for the West. Over the 32-year period, the percentage of newborns receiving circumcision at birth decreased 37%, from 63.9% in 1979 to 40.2% in 2010. Most of this decrease occurred in the 1980s, with the rate dropping to 41.0% in 1989. Rates continued to decrease through 2010, with a low of 31.4% in 2003."
So, hey, in my region, in the past half-decade, three out of five boys will still have foreskins. In New England, it's the opposite.
But, yeah, you can find this stuff out.
--- ♥ Married since June 2009 ♥ TW: Living children & Losses:
Mom of sons "Alpha" (Feb 2012) & "Beta" (May 2016) Pregnant after 4 losses via IVF/FET with daughter "Gamma" (EDD Oct 2, 2019)
I asked DH and he said he really has no preference (but his language kind of indicated he wants to circumcise). We decided if it ends up being a boy we would leave the decision with DH. I have my opinions, but I don't want to make a decision on a piece of anatomy I don't even have.
I've watched a video of a circ once. It looks terrible. It is mutilation in the same way as how some countries cut off girls clitorises. So if you ladies are right that it's becoming more norm to keep it then that's fantastic. But right now it's not the norm where I am and I would do it. I also mentioned it casually to dh one time. He said he would take the kid and get it done behind my back if I didn't agree.
------------
1. It is not, not, NOT the same as cutting off the clitoris. That is genital mutilation and it causes a ton of terrible medical problems for girls that have them. The medical risks from a circumcision (done correctly) are minimal.
2. If you really thought it was like genital mutilation/cutting off the clitoris... You wouldn't do it just because it's the norm! It's the norm in some third-world villages to perform "female circumcision" and it's still wrong and horrible and unjustifiable!
3. I am Jewish and we will be having a Bris with a Mohel if we have a boy... and I will likely cry longer and harder than the baby does. Because no one likes to see their infant in any pain (however brief)!
I strongly suggest people do research on the procedure before assuming it is safe. We wont be circumcising after doing some research ourselves. I support mothers making their own decision for their child for personal and religious reasons. If you're unsure, educate yourselves on the procedure.
Ok, I said I wasn't going to go into this, but I just feel like there are a lot of questions/concerns about the potential pain an infant feels during the procedure and I think I can help shine a little light on that. Or not, and just disregard! :P
To address the pain issue, it is impossible to truly determine how much pain an infant feels during circumcision since pain is subjective and the objective signs we would look for (crying, guarding, etc) are not effectively differentiated in infant responses. I will say that the infants definitely express discomfort when they are held spread eagle on the procedure table with a bright light shining directly on them. The babies cried the moment they were unswaddled and their legs spread apart, either for the circumcision OR for a hip dysplasia assessment or other reasons (diapering, bathing, medical/nursing assessments etc). While no anesthesia or analgesics are given to such young infants, nurses do soothe the infant in much the same way you would if your baby cried while being changed or bathed (I got a reputation for singing to all the babies...so much so that one mom asked me to teach her a few lullabies because she remarked that I never sang the same one twice!). We are trained to also use a pacifier dipped in sweetened water for non-nutritive sucking which is very effective soothing/pain management. I will say that some pedis (not so much OBs) knew to wait until the infant was soothed to begin the (extremely quick) procedure. And in my completely non-evidence based personal experience, I did not notice an increase in agitation or signs of discomfort when the actual foreskin was cut. It was the beginning portion of being unswadddled, exposed, and legs spread apart that was most uncomfortable. There is little to no bleeding during an uneventful circumcision (I did notice that OBs tend to leave a little more foreskin, making a "lion's mane" effect and resulting in more post-procedure swelling and redness). I will say that when the mohel performed the bris and the infant was being held, there was little to no crying or signs of discomfort, probably because they felt more secure and it eliminated the Moro reflex babies have when unswaddled and lying on their backs. I even suggested to one of the MDs that I hold the infant during the circumcision to try to reduce agitation, but the pedi was uncomfortable since that is not protocol and you can't effectively put the guide on the penis unless the infant is in the specific position on the table. And MDs are traditionally very resistant to suggestions, especially from lowly nursing students!
So basically, I can't conclude whether or not the procedure is painful, but I can say that in my (limited) experience, the infants did not appear any more upset or uncomfortable during the circumcision than during any other standard nursing or medical procedure. That obviously does not take into account the post-procedure pain or discomfort, which I do believe is fairly significant and requires extra care and understanding on the parent's part of how to keep the penis clean and handle the post-circumcision site which can be tricky given the...umm...interesting consistency and incredible frequency of newborn bowel movements. In conclusion, circumcision is a big decision (like every parenting decision!) and one that should be made carefully and with consideration for all aspects.
Stay tuned for my experiences in caring for elderly men with both natural and circumcised penises and the 23 year old circumcision patient! (JK, unless anyone is actually interested in that...)
I strongly suggest people do research on the procedure before assuming it is safe. We wont be circumcising after doing some research ourselves. I support mothers making their own decision for their child for personal and religious reasons. If you're unsure, educate yourselves on the procedure.
I mean, I'm not sure if that was directed at me... But we can agree it's not the same as cutting off a clitoris, right? The medical risks and dangers and pain for that are SEVERE. So severe as to be classified as a human rights violation. We would never just tell mothers "it's up to you" if that was what we were talking about.
I think there is an article on the bump with two doctors debating the issue. The pro-circ doc argues that there are medical risks to not doing it too (like UTIs). I'm not saying it's risk free, I was just saying it was unfair from a pain/risk standpoint to compare it to female genital mutilation.
I had no opinion either way and left the decision to the dh. Hereditary medical issues with our first son at 4 months made the decision for any other boys. They will all be circumcised.
My sister's boys are not and have had no issues.
We decided not to circumcise. DH wasn't and it didn't matter. However when he turned two he began to have problems. It started getting infected and it got to a point that the skin wouldn't pull back at all. When he was 3 he ended up needing surgery to perform a circumcision. Now I wish we would have just done it in the beginning. We found out that there are a couple males on both sides this has happened to but when they were much older. If this baby is a boy we will be circumcising.
Re: Circumcision opinions
https://madsciencewriter.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-in.html?m=1
If you can still read THAT ^^^ and want to chop off baby penis foreskin, well then, go to it.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/08/22/214406903/popularity-of-circumcision-falls-in-u-s-especially-out-west
I hope your daughters never get made fun of over the size of their breasts. You can't do anything about that until they are at least teenagers.
God forbid anyone goes against the norms? Who thinks like that?
I just don't know what is so wrong with "this is my personal choice, I respect your personal choice without calling it weird and foreskin creepy."
So things not to bring up on TB as it will cause a shit storm
Formula Feeding
Not getting flu shots
Choosing to circumcise your child
Ladies, we are all adults and can all choose what is right for OUR families. A little healthy debate is always informative, but these threads tend to get preachy and feel like others values are pushed on the whole
Agreed. I just find the constant combativeness annoying. Live and let live guys. If you want to circumcise, go for it. If not, then don't. We are all adults and able to make our own decisions on how to raise our children. I can't wait until the bottle vs breast threads start.I can't wait until the bottle vs breast threads start.
--------------
Wait until the CIO debate...
I'm all for giving your kid a fighting chance to not put themselves on the spot like but what if they are just...different? And they can't help it? Then what?
You're willing to make a major medical/religious decision based on whether or not your kid will get picked on in the locker room.
It just seems a bit narrow-minded. I'm hoping to raise a kid who celebrates other kid's, and their own, differences, not teach them that the best way to get along is blend in or get made fun of.
It is just a conversation about circumsision, sure, but that kind of attitude really doesn't go far with me, sorry.
Edited: spelling
I am Christian, but found it absolutely beautiful to hear the religious tradition. It was a little shocking that the mohel "freehanded" it since the OBs and pedis all used a guide. The uncle (I think) held the baby in one and then like the godfather with the other, so I was basically there to offer a binkie with Sweeties or help stem bleeding if something went wrong. Thankfully they both went off without a hitch and the mohel was very skilled (nothing like the Seinfeld episode!). I then taught both families how to care for the circumcised penis which made one of the dads a little woozy, but the circumcisions looked better than most of the ones by the MDs, which surprised me because it seemed so quick like slice and dice. Overall, I could appreciate the tradition and the importance to each family and had long discussions about the religious implications as I did more baby care teaching (bathing, diapering etc)
Married in 2011
Baby 1: Stillborn at 27 weeks (April 2014)
Baby 2: Due May 2016
Thank you!! Super helpful!
First Pregnancy
Second Pregnancy
- BFP: 09/11/2015
- EDD: 05/25/2016
Baby Born04/15/2016
PGAL
♥ Married since June 2009 ♥
TW: Living children & Losses:
Pregnant after 4 losses via IVF/FET with daughter "Gamma" (EDD Oct 2, 2019)
I think there is an article on the bump with two doctors debating the issue. The pro-circ doc argues that there are medical risks to not doing it too (like UTIs). I'm not saying it's risk free, I was just saying it was unfair from a pain/risk standpoint to compare it to female genital mutilation.
When he was 3 he ended up needing surgery to perform a circumcision. Now I wish we would have just done it in the beginning.
We found out that there are a couple males on both sides this has happened to but when they were much older.
If this baby is a boy we will be circumcising.