I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with heels at 12 per se. I remember when I was young, begging my mom and getting a pair of Mary Janes with small heels on them. I wore them to church and other times when I would dress up. I thought of them to be grown up and fancy but never 'sexual'. If my little girl wanted heels like that I wouldn't object. If she wanted 6 inch lucite stripper heels, that's a different story.
I was 12 around the time Clueless came out and would go to Contempo and try to copy their outfits. I was way too small for anything to not be huge but I did it anyway. I definitely started wearing a little lipstick at that time too. It had nothing to do with trying to be sexy- I just was enjoying being an almost teenage girl.
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@Notasycophant what the heck do heels have to do with budding sexuality? Maybe twelve year old should be dressed like a child not a adult. Talking to your children is a much more efficient way to express that you believe they should never be ashamed of their sexuality. Sticking them in heels, a bikini or any other adult type clothing is you sexualizing them while also robbing them of a childhood in which they don't have to feel pressed to be sexy as most women do come their late teens early twenties. Wearing heels is not about ones own sexuality it's about appearing sexy to others which is not necessary in the 6th grade.
@bizzerbee , tell that to the 12 years olds who are sexually curious or sadly active. You can stick your head in the sand all you want. But if my daughter starts wanting to wear heels and makeup, I'll start educating her instead of denying her the experience of growing up. 12 year olds are children yes, but they're also learning about their sexuality. I think you're confusing recognizing a childs sexuality with adults sexualizing children. Two very different issues from a psychological viewpoint.
ETA: childhood sexuality should be looked at in a broad sense and not taken literally.
@Notasycophant what the heck do heels have to do with budding sexuality? Maybe twelve year old should be dressed like a child not a adult. Talking to your children is a much more efficient way to express that you believe they should never be ashamed of their sexuality. Sticking them in heels, a bikini or any other adult type clothing is you sexualizing them while also robbing them of a childhood in which they don't have to feel pressed to be sexy as most women do come their late teens early twenties. Wearing heels is not about ones own sexuality it's about appearing sexy to others which is not necessary in the 6th grade.
Ummmm no. Neither a bikini or high heels are inherently sexual items and by assigning them as such, you're sexualizing young girls. They make Disney princess heels for four year olds. Baby bikinis come in size 6 months. Are you telling me those are sexual? Ew, no. They're children. They should be able to be kids and wear what they want without adults sexualizing their actions and clothing.
I'd just like to pose this question: Why is it that only girls'/women's clothes define their sexuality? I can't think of a single piece of boys' clothing that society defines as sexualizing them. On the whole, we don't restrict boys from wearing certain items of clothing because it sexualizes them or is too "mature" for their age. Why are we placing restrictions on girls?
And please don't give me the old pedophiles excuse. Pedophiles will sadly always exist and clothing will not impact their actions or feelings.
I'm torn on this issue in some ways. On the one hand, I would never judge a young girl or her parents for her choosing to wear a bikini, heels, a short skirt/dress, or leggings as pants. On the other hand, I'm very uncomfortable with the fact that commercialization and consumerism drives young girls to desire these items and is unquestionably promoting sexualization.
As a high school teacher, I hate that girls some to school with midriff tops on. Personally, I never really want to see a belly button in school, and I think it's really weird that it's fashionable now. I also hate that I'm supposed to enforce our dress code and ask them to cover up. We do have rules for boys too. The latest fad in teenage boys clothing is t-shirts with images of half-naked women. Charming.
I wish women and girls weren't bombarded with the idea that their bodies are objects for display in certain sexual ways. It's all unnerving.
I'd just like to pose this question: Why is it that only girls'/women's clothes define their sexuality? I can't think of a single piece of boys' clothing that society defines as sexualizing them. On the whole, we don't restrict boys from wearing certain items of clothing because it sexualizes them or is too "mature" for their age. Why are we placing restrictions on girls?
And please don't give me the old pedophiles excuse. Pedophiles will sadly always exist and clothing will not impact their actions or feelings.
This, and to add to that last paragraph- statistically pedophiles victimize boys and girls equally.
I just know that most (not all) women put heels on because it makes their legs look great, It makes you feel taller, more toned in your calfs, and all those things combined make you feel sexy. Most women wear heels for attractiveness not comfort or practicality. So what purpose does a four year old or twelve year have wearing heels? I personably think young girls are attracted to wearing things like heels and bikinis because it makes them feel older, more mature, and look more like a grown woman. Which they don't need to.
@notasycophant I understand that a child may develop their sexuality early. I don't think that preferring to start by just being open with them and talking about sex and sexual education equates to "sticking your head in the sand". I do not believe that most twelve year olds really do want to be having sex. I think that they come to believe that they do because we have a culture of sex and many kids just want to hurry up and be adults. I believe that talking to young kids about sex it becomes very apparent that they are seeing sex as it appears on the silver screen and that most of their desire stems from external pressures and not because they honestly feel ready for it.
How about little girls like heels because they're cute or pretty and because mommy wears them and they want to be like mommy? I'm sorry, but a four year old does NOT look at plastic Cinderella heels and think, "Gee, these will make my calves looked so toned and sexy!" What a ridiculous argument. Stop sexualizing children.
@AdventureMama hello learn to read.. I said Women wear heels for toned calf etc. Little girls want heels to dress and look like grown women which last time I checked includes mom.
@AdventureMama hello learn to read.. I said Women wear heels for toned calf etc. Little girls want heels to dress and look like grown women which last time I checked includes mom.
Your comment clearly implied that little girls want to wear heels for the same reasons women do. They don't. Don't tell me to learn to read, I fully understand what you were saying and I disagree.
So no. I stated two very different reasons for wearing heels. No where did I write that women wear heels to look older nor did I say children want heels to look sexy. I was attempting to explain that I feel like children want to mimic the adults that they see by wanting to wear the things they see adults wearing and likewise they begin to want to act the way adults act. I see this as problematic and I will personally try to avoid it with my own children. You can do as you please with your own.
So no. I stated two very different reasons for wearing heels. No where did I write that women wear heels to look older nor did I say children want heels to look sexy. I was attempting to explain that I feel like children want to mimic the adults that they see by wanting to wear the things they see adults wearing and likewise they begin to want to act the way adults act. I see this as problematic and I will personally try to avoid it with my own children. You can do as you please with your own.
The point is that by saying it's problematic for children to emulate adults because adults use certain items in a sexual context, you're sexualizing children. You can pretend it's not that all you want to, but that's what I see it as. Children aren't sexual. A little girl can wear high heels for dress up (or hell, school) and there's NOTHING sexy about it. And saying that there is is part of the problem. You're propogating this highly sexual culture we live in by assigning sexual value to something a child is wearing.
I've made no commentary here about how I plan to raise my own children. I'm just talking about the issue in the abstract.
@bizzerbee , I never said talking to them equates sticking ones head in the sand. Getting defensive or saying it's wrong for a 12 year old to wear a bikini is sticking ones head into the sand. Which is exactly what YOU were saying. I 'm specifically talking about 12 -13 year olds when I say that it's important to recognize early sexual development. Denying them without explanation or labelling clothes( negatively) and sexually is not cool.
I won't get into the 3 or 7 year olds in heels or bikinis because there's nothing sexual about a naked child or a child in clothes.
@notasycophant@AdventureMama My response was to you @notasycophabt, and you specifically said that when a child is wearing heels they are expressing their sexuality and that we should not shun them or suppress that urge because children are intact becoming more sexual at a young age. I responded to that saying that there are better ways to address budding sexuality then just allow our children to dress like mini adults. Then you, @adventuremama jumped all over me saying I am sexualizing children by saying that heels are perceived as sexy apparel which is exactly what @notasycophant stated in her post to which I was responding. Both of your arguments are inherently opposite to each other yet you are liking each other's post. Ridiculous.
My only issue with young girls wearing heels is that they aren't good for developing feet. Most heels for little girls are maybe an inch tall with a block heel and usually worn for church or dress up. I have zero issue in a young girl wearing a bikini and if I end up with a girl, she'll probably be in one next summer.
I think the idea of Disney shoes for dress up is adorable. If I do have a little girl, she will have an entire chest of dress up outfits. It is NOT because I want her to act older than she is nor to try and "sexualize" her. In these days, thanks to trashy dolls and TV shows, children are given the idea that they need to dress way older than they should. THAT has turned a pair of cute dress up heels into sex. And it is disgusting. I want my child to be a child for as long as possible. And you can bet your butt if i have a girl she will be wearing a cute little bikini next summer. 6 month adorable belly, sweet chunky legs and all.
I feel like for the most part modern women in a forum like this are pretty united against body shaming and slut-shaming so it always surprises me that so many people agree that leggings aren't pants and that "women should cover their ass" because "no one wants to see it." Uhh first of all, women should wear whatever they feel comfortable in. Second, leggings do not equal tights. Most that I've seen aren't see through. They're no different than yoga pants (which are somehow universally acceptable to wear in public whether you intend to work out or not, at least in the mom crowd) and I don't see how they're any "worse" than shorts or crop tops.
pants (noun): an outer garment covering the body from the waist to the ankles, with a separate part for each leg.
Looks like leggings fall into that description just fine.
tl;dr: Women have bodies and should dress them the way they see fit. Legging-shaming is lame and antiquated.
I think it's quite a leap to say that just because people don't want to look at camel toe and butt crack they are "body shaming and slut shaming". I simply don't get the appeal of dressing just this side of naked when you're at work, school, or elsewhere in public. But perhaps my opinion is also colored by the fact that I don't get the fashion aspect of it. They're not my style, and I actually find them uncomfortable after awhile if I'm wearing them around the house, say, after a yoga class. My skin needs to breathe!
But as I explained in my last comment, my opinion on the matter is colored by the fact that I've never seen someone's butt crack or camel toe while they were wearing leggings. Because leggings aren't tights. Leggings aren't "just this side of naked."
ETA: Judging other women publicly (aka on a public forum) for wearing something YOU think is too revealing or uncomfortable is shaming.
I've definitely seen those things, and I'm talking about leggings. I can't think of a time I've seen someone wearing tights like leggings. Maybe I can clear up my opinion by saying that if you're wearing leggings and I can't see your stuff, then go for it. I akin that to wearing skinny jeans, and I don't think those are too revealing. I still think the word "shaming" is extreme though. By your logic, if I give the opinion that I don't like to wear hats because they're uncomfortable, I'm shaming people who like hats.
I'm late to the party, I know (that's what I get for actually having a life this weekend, unlike my normal weekends) but I felt the need to put my two cents in, in the form of a picture. I'm pretty sure that most of the ladies who feel leggings are not appropriate to wear in public unless covered by a shirt/dress/etc. are referring to this type of leggings. I'm on board with that opinion, just because I feel it is inappropriate to wear something that tight and revealing. I'd feel the same if a man wore something that tight. So for good measure I'm throwing in a picture of Conan in jeggings that I would find equally uncomfortable as the pictures of ladies in leggings, were it not purely for comedy. Leggings that are thick enough that they are not see through or look painted on to the point of seeing the outline of your lady (or man!) parts are fine by me.
I don't have a problem with girls wearing heels or bikinis or makeup at any age, depending on the context. I fully expect if I have a daughter to wear heels and makeup to dress up when they are little, just like I did. I remember putting on all black with red lipstick and heels of my mom's after watching Grease to look like Sandy, but it was totally innocent fun.
I don't think I'll want my kid in a bikini, but that's just because it's how I was raised. I wasn't allowed to wear a two piece until I was around 10 or 12, and it had to be a tankini. I think tankinis are way better than one pieces often just because it's so much easier for using the bathroom at the beach (don't have to take your whole swimsuit off!)I understand that, because by 14 girls are in high school and may very well be trying to be sexy, and if the parents don't want their child in a skimpy triangle bikini but haven't said otherwise until then it may be challenging to have the child/teen respect that decision. Plus there's so many cute one pieces and tankinis!!! But if other parents choose differently, that's fine by me.
Same with makeup, I couldn't wear anything but lip gloss until high school, but if I was playing dress up or at home with my friends we could put on whatever makeup we wanted to. I don't see the need for little girls to do their makeup for anything but play, but to each their own
When I was a little kid I didn't understand the difference between "sexy" and "pretty." I thought that they were the same thing. When I wanted to wear high heels or makeup it was because it was grown up and pretty. All the heroines in anything I watched were beautiful, so that's how I wanted to look.
I was such a tomboy growing up that I cried if my sisters tried to put me in a dress or fix my hair. I wouldn't let them go anywhere near me with makeup and when I got a bit older they would hold me down and pluck my eyebrows. I'm not going to have any idea what to do with a girl that likes dress up and makeup!
I guess I'll just have to read the situation and get some context on why they want to dress a certain way as they get older. I know that many kids start early these days with being interested in their sexuality. My nieces started between 12 and 14, while I was probably 18. So, when that time comes I'll have a chat with them. I like to think I'll be more concerned with their behavior than how they are dressing, but I hate seeing young teenagers in revealing clothes. It makes me uncomfortable.
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If my little girl wanted heels like that I wouldn't object. If she wanted 6 inch lucite stripper heels, that's a different story.
ETA: childhood sexuality should be looked at in a broad sense and not taken literally.
And please don't give me the old pedophiles excuse. Pedophiles will sadly always exist and clothing will not impact their actions or feelings.
As a high school teacher, I hate that girls some to school with midriff tops on. Personally, I never really want to see a belly button in school, and I think it's really weird that it's fashionable now. I also hate that I'm supposed to enforce our dress code and ask them to cover up. We do have rules for boys too. The latest fad in teenage boys clothing is t-shirts with images of half-naked women. Charming.
I wish women and girls weren't bombarded with the idea that their bodies are objects for display in certain sexual ways. It's all unnerving.
@notasycophant I understand that a child may develop their sexuality early. I don't think that preferring to start by just being open with them and talking about sex and sexual education equates to "sticking your head in the sand". I do not believe that most twelve year olds really do want to be having sex. I think that they come to believe that they do because we have a culture of sex and many kids just want to hurry up and be adults. I believe that talking to young kids about sex it becomes very apparent that they are seeing sex as it appears on the silver screen and that most of their desire stems from external pressures and not because they honestly feel ready for it.
I've made no commentary here about how I plan to raise my own children. I'm just talking about the issue in the abstract.
edit grammar
I won't get into the 3 or 7 year olds in heels or bikinis because there's nothing sexual about a naked child or a child in clothes.
My response was to you @notasycophabt, and you specifically said that when a child is wearing heels they are expressing their sexuality and that we should not shun them or suppress that urge because children are intact becoming more sexual at a young age. I responded to that saying that there are better ways to address budding sexuality then just allow our children to dress like mini adults. Then you, @adventuremama jumped all over me saying I am sexualizing children by saying that heels are perceived as sexy apparel which is exactly what @notasycophant stated in her post to which I was responding. Both of your arguments are inherently opposite to each other yet you are liking each other's post. Ridiculous.
edited: To delete an explanation because clearly you don't comprehend what I'm trying to say and it's not worth my time.
I guess I'll just have to read the situation and get some context on why they want to dress a certain way as they get older. I know that many kids start early these days with being interested in their sexuality. My nieces started between 12 and 14, while I was probably 18. So, when that time comes I'll have a chat with them. I like to think I'll be more concerned with their behavior than how they are dressing, but I hate seeing young teenagers in revealing clothes. It makes me uncomfortable.