Let's talk confusing vaccines

avaquinn

Hey ladies! It's my first pregnancy and I never realized how many options and decisions there are even before you have the baby. I'm trying to do the right thing for my baby girl and it's hard to decide what is the right thing. I am a bit of a health freak and really feel the body can heal as long as you eat right. With that said anyone going the no vaccine route? I'm debating on it then again many public school require it . So many decisions. I feel they want to pump your child with everything by the time it's 6 months and that scares me. Why does a new born need a hep b shot exactly? The second it is born it needs a hep b shot? Weird. I don't know I'm curious what other moms thing.

Thanks

Stargirlb

my children aren't vaccinated. This baby won't be either. I'm not anti-vaccine though, I am pro-science, I research things pretty thoroughly on a case-by-case basis. 

Also-- I don't believe the body 'heals itself' as long as you eat right.. good nutrition and sanitation go a long way but we are still mortal biological beings and can be fucked up by shit pretty easily under the right conditions. This can apply not just to natural disease but also to modern medicine, so like I said, I like to look at things case-by-case, consider the complexities, and then make a decision. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to "should I vaccinate myself/my child?" like 'vaccine herd immunity' proponents do. 

There are some I would be more likely to get if we were traveling to certain places. Public school does not *require* vaccines, if you do decide to opt out for whatever reason, your child can still go to school. I have had zero issues. But non-vaxing is not super uncommon around here. My friends are a mix.

 and I am very much alone on that here on the bump though, so LOOK OUT YOU ARE GONNA GET SLAUGHTERED, everyone here is very pro-vaccine   lol

Reiden

Pro-vaccine is usually a good option, because of the 'herd vaccination' theory/practice. Some people are unable to get vaccines [ babies, elderly, some people who are ill are unable to get the vaccine/are allergic to them ], and rely on the majority of the population/of the herd to be healthy and ward of diseases in order not to catch them.

Not getting your child vaccinated also runs the risk of whatever disease you are trying to ward off infecting your child and mutating to resist the vaccinations that are already prepared, therefore requiring scientists to re-invent said vaccine to be able to fight off the disease. The same concept/principal applies to people who are sick and on antibiotics, and stop taking them when they feel 'better', then the sickness comes back with a vengeance and the antibiotics don't have any effect, anymore. 

Are vaccines necessary? Maybe not. But it's a nice buffer/defense, just in case.

Stargirlb

The ONLY circumstance I would consider an at-birth hep B shot necessary for my newborn child would be if I myself had hep B. Or if the child was born with a condition that would make blood transfusions in their early years very likely. 

sanbry

You can also do an alternative vax schedule if you feel uncomfortable doing too many at once. We looked into it but in the end we followed the recommended schedule. I did my research and decided that that was what was best for us!

SpaceGirlSpiff

SpaceGirlSpiff

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SpaceGirlSpiff

All I'm going to say, since this has been beaten to death so many times in the few years I've resided on TB

Please, please just vaccinate your kids.

Please.

BackseatDriver

I felt it was important to vaccinate. I read an article that basically said vaccines have been improved so that despite the in increasing number that are received your child is actually exposed to less antigens than they were in the last.

I personally feel there is a social obligation to participate in programs that help the whole community. For vaccination programs to work you need almost everyone to be vaccinated. There are people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons so it is important for others to opt in. I would feel like I'm abusing the system by not vaccinating.

Personally I think it is a good idea to find a pediatrician and talk to him or her about your concerns.

miabambina

Stargirlb said:

I'm not anti-vaccine though, I am pro-science, I research things pretty thoroughly on a case-by-case basis. 

 

Lololol at "I'm not anti-vaccine....but I don't vaccinate....because....Science".  

Mrs_Bennett

Vaccines are really something that you need to research on your own, and decide with your SO what is best for your LO. Each vaccine is different, and you can absolutely do an alternative/selective vaccine schedule if that suits you.

All that being said, @Stargirlb‌, vaccines are required in the US for school (and daycare) attendance. Some states allow exemptions for a few reasons (usually religion), and some do not.

emilyp2013

Agreed wholeheartedly with @emmyg65‌ . The diseases we vaccinate against in childhood are done in childhood because they often strike in childhood and, believe it or not, those diseases do so seriously suck. My grandfather contracted Hep B virus in childhood, he died of hemorrhaging in liver failure in his late 40's due to the chronic liver damage. My father had mumps as a kid, and yes modern medicine kept him alive...but didn't stop the infection from getting into his ear and causing lifelong deafness. I won't judge someone for researching and putting thought into their decision and coming to a conclusion different from mine...like, ever; I applaud you for thinking about it and considering the arguments. But, to hear the what the aftermath is for many of those illnesses, you need only bring it up with someone one to two generations our senior.

ghostof5letters

Happy Tuesday!

motherboy

"The human body can heal itself through good nutrition." That will probably be the dumbest thing I read today. And I'm about to go read about Teresa and juicy Joe Guidice.

ghostof5letters

Trek3

We vaccinate on the recommended schedule. I can't imagine choosing a path that could put my kids through a terrible sickness that is potentially deforming or fatal, or having them spread something like that to others. 

There is so much science supporting vaccines. As pps have said, PLEASE VACCINATE!!!! Let's not let polio etc back into North America!

ghostof5letters

SheHulk723

Stargirlb said:

my children aren't vaccinated. This baby won't be either. I'm not anti-vaccine though, I am pro-science, I research things pretty thoroughly on a case-by-case basis. 

Also-- I don't believe the body 'heals itself' as long as you eat right.. good nutrition and sanitation go a long way but we are still mortal biological beings and can be fucked up by shit pretty easily under the right conditions. This can apply not just to natural disease but also to modern medicine, so like I said, I like to look at things case-by-case, consider the complexities, and then make a decision. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to "should I vaccinate myself/my child?" like 'vaccine herd immunity' proponents do. 

There are some I would be more likely to get if we were traveling to certain places. Public school does not *require* vaccines, if you do decide to opt out for whatever reason, your child can still go to school. I have had zero issues. But non-vaxing is not super uncommon around here. My friends are a mix.

 and I am very much alone on that here on the bump though, so LOOK OUT YOU ARE GONNA GET SLAUGHTERED, everyone here is very pro-vaccine   lol

Someone on TB isn't pro-vax?  I'm not anti and I'm not pro, but my husband and I plan on doing a hell of a lot of research before making our decisions.  Neither my sister nor I were vaccinated and I really don't have a problem with not being vaccinated myself.  Also, we both went to public schools here in the US and never had a problem with it.

britb618

OP you should probably speak with your pediatricians. Many pediatricians will not even take newborns on as patients if you choose not to vaccinate. If you live in USA as another PP said you will have difficulty with the school system and day cares as well if you do not vaccinate. There is nothing wrong with trying to be as informed as possible by doing your research but coming onto the bump and stating that if you eat healthy and your kid eats healthy you'll be fine...I'm sorry. I just can't. Stargirlb who is our anti-vax board guru (hope thats okay to call you @stargirlb) even called you out on that one and at least she does her research. Wish I knew how to post gifs! Love all the pps

Maebb

Trek3 said:

We vaccinate on the recommended schedule. I can't imagine choosing a path that could put my kids through a terrible sickness that is potentially deforming or fatal, or having them spread something like that to others. 

There is so much science supporting vaccines. As pps have said, PLEASE VACCINATE!!!! Let's not let polio etc back into North America!

This. We vaccinate on the recommended schedule.

SRose1005

Does anyone know what happened to that lovely Penn and Teller video that came up in the last vaccine thread? That was a pretty wonderful way to put it.

Pips09

It's not confusing. Vaccinate your kid.

Pips09

SRose1005 said:

Does anyone know what happened to that lovely Penn and Teller video that came up in the last vaccine thread? That was a pretty wonderful way to put it.

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

southernyankeegirl

I just had a very long talk with a friend who is one of the smartest NICU doctors ever, IMO (fellowship at one of the top 5 programs in the country), and asked all about hep b and vitamin k and eye ointment and heel pricks.

Vitamin K can prevent internal bleeding which can go undetected and kill a baby. Rare, but very serious and preventable. Side effects are pretty much none - I am doing it.

Eye ointment is like any antibiotic ointment you'd put on a kid's cut - it isn't systemic antibiotics. I am really hesitant to over use oral antibiotics, but an ointment only kills bacteria on the surface, in this case preventing blindness for a majority of cases where it would have otherwise occurred if baby happened to be exposed to certain bacteria. I am doing it.

Heel pricks are used to determine several really serious (though rare) conditions that otherwise undetected and untreated could have serious or deadly consequences. Only impact to baby is a quick prick of a needle. Sold - I am doing it.

Hep b is the only one I may choose to wait a week on, as long as I test negative myself (which I am sure I will). Baby will get the shot, but I am still exploring why it needs to be done at the hospital so soon after birth if mother tests negative. But I WILL get it, and quickly - just not sure if immediately or his first check up.

Once I nail down which ped we are going with, I will defer to them. After all, their years and years of medical training and experience trumps my internet research any day, IMO.

Jellybean707

SheHulk723 said:

Stargirlb said:

my children aren't vaccinated. This baby won't be either. I'm not anti-vaccine though, I am pro-science, I research things pretty thoroughly on a case-by-case basis. 

Also-- I don't believe the body 'heals itself' as long as you eat right.. good nutrition and sanitation go a long way but we are still mortal biological beings and can be fucked up by shit pretty easily under the right conditions. This can apply not just to natural disease but also to modern medicine, so like I said, I like to look at things case-by-case, consider the complexities, and then make a decision. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to "should I vaccinate myself/my child?" like 'vaccine herd immunity' proponents do. 

There are some I would be more likely to get if we were traveling to certain places. Public school does not *require* vaccines, if you do decide to opt out for whatever reason, your child can still go to school. I have had zero issues. But non-vaxing is not super uncommon around here. My friends are a mix.

 and I am very much alone on that here on the bump though, so LOOK OUT YOU ARE GONNA GET SLAUGHTERED, everyone here is very pro-vaccine   lol

Someone on TB isn't pro-vax?  I'm not anti and I'm not pro, but my husband and I plan on doing a hell of a lot of research before making our decisions.  Neither my sister nor I were vaccinated and I really don't have a problem with not being vaccinated myself.  Also, we both went to public schools here in the US and never had a problem with it.

----------

When you were a child vaccination rates were higher and you were protected by herd immunity. You wouldn't have an issue with not being vaccinated because the rest of us were and you didn't get sick as a result of your parents not vaccinating you.

Vaccination rates are lower now. Not vaccinating today puts children at a real risk for catching preventable diseases that they can die from. Your response alone shows you need to do "a hell of a lot of research."

eta: quote fail and reading fail

TXUltraRunner

Vaccinate your children. End of thread. 

I truly believe that parents who do not vaccinate for no reason other than being anti vaccine should be thrown in prison.

SheHulk723

Jellybean707 said:

Stargirlb said:

my children aren't vaccinated. This baby won't be either. I'm not anti-vaccine though, I am pro-science, I research things pretty thoroughly on a case-by-case basis. 

Also-- I don't believe the body 'heals itself' as long as you eat right.. good nutrition and sanitation go a long way but we are still mortal biological beings and can be fucked up by shit pretty easily under the right conditions. This can apply not just to natural disease but also to modern medicine, so like I said, I like to look at things case-by-case, consider the complexities, and then make a decision. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to "should I vaccinate myself/my child?" like 'vaccine herd immunity' proponents do. 

There are some I would be more likely to get if we were traveling to certain places. Public school does not *require* vaccines, if you do decide to opt out for whatever reason, your child can still go to school. I have had zero issues. But non-vaxing is not super uncommon around here. My friends are a mix.

 and I am very much alone on that here on the bump though, so LOOK OUT YOU ARE GONNA GET SLAUGHTERED, everyone here is very pro-vaccine   lol

Someone on TB isn't pro-vax?  I'm not anti and I'm not pro, but my husband and I plan on doing a hell of a lot of research before making our decisions.  Neither my sister nor I were vaccinated and I really don't have a problem with not being vaccinated myself.  Also, we both went to public schools here in the US and never had a problem with it.

---------- When you were a child vaccination rates were higher and you were protected by herd immunity. You wouldn't have an issue with not being vaccinated because the rest of us were and you didn't get sick as a result of your parents not vaccinating you. Vaccination rates are lower now. Not vaccinating today puts children at a real risk for catching preventable diseases that they can die from. Your response alone shows you need to do "a hell of a lot of research." eta: quote fail and reading fail

Was just about to call you out on your reading fail  Clearly this is something that SHOULD be researched heavily, which is why we plan on doing it; Only then we can make informed decisions. 

AHemm1986

It's not that I blindly follow everything, but I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher of vaccines...therefore I'm not going to sit around and do internet "research" to find reasons not to vaccinate this little one. Herd immunity is a real thing. This generation never grew up with measles, mumps, polio, etc because of that little thing called herd immunity. When everyone gets vaccinated it works. There are NO ties to Autism from vaccines. The only thing you're doing by not vaxing is putting the rest of the population at risk because you decided to get your online medical degree. Feel free to not vax, but as pp's said, stay out of society. 

ps. Article link from NPR about how contagious various diseases are (mainly with a focus on Ebola due to current events). We're all so terrified of Ebola, but there are kids without measles and mumps vaccines because parents are afraid of whatever...yet they're WAY more contagious. https://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola

TLDR: VAX YOUR CHILDREN

firsttimeaussiemum

AHemm1986 said:

It's not that I blindly follow everything, but I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher of vaccines...therefore I'm not going to sit around and do internet "research" to find reasons not to vaccinate this little one. Herd immunity is a real thing. This generation never grew up with measles, mumps, polio, etc because of that little thing called herd immunity. When everyone gets vaccinated it works. There are NO ties to Autism from vaccines. The only thing you're doing by not vaxing is putting the rest of the population at risk because you decided to get your online medical degree. Feel free to not vax, but as pp's said, stay out of society. 

ps. Article link from NPR about how contagious various diseases are (mainly with a focus on Ebola due to current events). We're all so terrified of Ebola, but there are kids without measles and mumps vaccines because parents are afraid of whatever...yet they're WAY more contagious. https://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola

TLDR: VAX YOUR CHILDREN

I honestly can't love this post anymore

HStrawberry

If you want to do your own research be aware of the sources. Anyone can write an article. Any company can fund a study. Look for scientific articles from respected journals, conducted by reputable and neutral institutions. It may take some time and effort to learn the language and understand what is being said but you can always ask your doctor if there is a part you can't figure out. There's lots of free online textbooks you can download as well. The first year ones often have fantastic, simple explanations of how vaccines and viruses work (a great starting point). Coming from a scientific background, I approach most of my medical/biological questions this way. Good luck!

HamptonsMama

While I respect that each parent has the right to choose whether they want to vaccinate their child, I also fully support school systems that will not allow unvaccinated children to attend school. My DH was very much on the fence about vaccines due to his mothers incorrect information. We found the vaccine chapter of Baby 411 very helpful and informative. Best of luck on whatever you decide.

SRose1005

@Pips09 yep that's the one!! Thanks!!

ADC1979

HamptonsMama

@grumpycat88‌ Watching your little one get vaccinated isn't that bad. Usually the nurses that do them are very quick and are done just as the baby will start to cry. DH and I took turns being the "bad guy" holding DD down the first times she needed shots. It sucks but next time you get to be the hero!

Tsuga76

For the love of god and all humanity, vaccinate your kids.  Seriously.  It's just not ok to choose not to vaccinate for no good reason.  Your choice impacts other people - it's not just a personal preference.  On one hand it's selfish not to vaccinate (the herd immunity issues others have referred to) and on the other stupid (because you're still putting your own kids at risk.)

I 110% agree to consider your sources as you do your research. I will definitely take the advice of like 99% of pediatricians and consider the results of papers published in reputable medical journals over Jenny McCarthy's views on the subject.

Someone posted this NOVA special awhile back, and I thought it gave a really good overview of the issue: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html

kellyfo14

Repeat after me, Vaccinate! Do you trust the doctor you chose for LO? They have more medical knowledge than anyone you are likely to know and the internet is a miasma of misinformation. I have a friend who is an APRN at a children's hospital. She has seen dozens of children die from these preventable illnesses.

letsgox

I'm looking for the confusing part.

The "study" that propelled the recent anti-vax movement has been denounced and retracted.

PS: I always like @ICarriedAWatermelon‌'s beautiful responses to the vaccination questions.

southernyankeegirl

I am all for doing research to self educate, but with regards to vaccines, there isn't even a question. Do it.

Any amount of internet research won't trump the years and years of education and training and experience that pediatricians go through.

Dr. Google is a dangerous and self-fulfilling diagnostician - it is hardly a balanced source of research and facts, and like any statistician will tell you, a person with an agenda can bend any statistic or study to their favor. If you are looking for a study to support a crazy theory, you'll likely find one, but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority (nearly exclusive of exceptions) support vaccinating.

And I have never met a pediatrician who recommends not to vaccinate - most of them honestly have some unkind things to say behind closed doors (and with friends) about anti-vax parents because of the diseases those children end up bringing into their waiting rooms. I honestly would not even bring my son to a peds office that accepts non-immunized children as patients because I don't want my son to be exposed to those germs, even with his vaccines up to date.

Mrs_Bennett

grumpycat88 said:

HamptonsMama said:

@grumpycat88‌ Watching your little one get vaccinated isn't that bad. Usually the nurses that do them are very quick and are done just as the baby will start to cry. DH and I took turns being the "bad guy" holding DD down the first times she needed shots. It sucks but next time you get to be the hero!

------
I feel bad when my cats get vaccinated so I know that I'm gonna have some feelings about watching the baby get shots. I like the tag team idea! Thanks

If you're getting more than one shot at a single visit, always request that two people administer them simultaneously (one in each leg). Much quicker, less pain for LO, and less heartbreak for momma! Also, nursing during/after shots takes away pain and helps LO relax.

AHemm1986

Mrs_Bennett said:

@grumpycat88‌ Watching your little one get vaccinated isn't that bad. Usually the nurses that do them are very quick and are done just as the baby will start to cry. DH and I took turns being the "bad guy" holding DD down the first times she needed shots. It sucks but next time you get to be the hero!

------ I feel bad when my cats get vaccinated so I know that I'm gonna have some feelings about watching the baby get shots. I like the tag team idea! Thanks

If you're getting more than one shot at a single visit, always request that two people administer them simultaneously (one in each leg). Much quicker, less pain for LO, and less heartbreak for momma! Also, nursing during/after shots takes away pain and helps LO relax.

Sounds like how I got my ears pierced when I was in 4th grade! My mom somehow knew that if they did it one at a time, I'd walk out with one earring. I had two girls, one on each side, and they both pierced each ear at the same time. Thank god! That's a good idea to apply to shots. 

Maebb

Maybe I am heartless, but it is not bad for me (or DS) at all when he gets his shots. He doesn't love it, but when he was an infant, I nursed him or gave him a bottle after, and he was always fine. Now he loves lollipops (I get the organic vitamin C ones).

I agree with PPs to see if the doctors can combine the shots or do them at the same time.