Unpopular/Unsolicited Opinion Thursday

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darkangel42

jessa8907 said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Why should it?

If it isn't enough to survive on, why does it need to exist?

If the minimum wage isn't the minimum amount to fulfill basic human needs for food and shelter then what is the point in it even being a thing?

helloblueeyes

jnnfrrose6 said:

helloblueeyes said:

This brought to you by the fact that my mom tried to talk my aunt out of some kitschy origami owl necklace as a present for me for my shower. I am not a cutesy type shit person, or even a girly person, i don't even wear necklaces. I hardly change my earrings because i purposely put in ones that go with everything except rare special occasions. I do not even have an engagement ring because they are too fragile. I am really tough on my things and i tend to break or wear stuff out a lot. My aunt knows all of this. 

I'm going to snip this because I agree with the overall UO, but I keep going back to the bolded.  How exactly are engagement rings "fragile," or any more "fragile" than any other ring you might wear on your hands?  

I guess they seem more fragile to me because most of the designs are the sort where the stone is elevated or have elaborate decorative detailing and would get bumped/banged a lot. This actually applies to most rings, not just engagement ones, it was just what popped into my head.

I didn't want anything with a stone or anything that can be damaged, broken or knocked loose. I only wear 2 rings, one is a sterling silver plain band on my right hand that i have worn since i was a teen (and cannot actually get off at this point) and my wedding band, which is a plain white gold band. Both are scratched to hell. It would kill me if my DH paid for a diamond or ruby or whatever and i lost it. 

I actually had a nickname as the destroyer for awhile because i really am ridiculously tough on stuff and most doesn't hold up. I am not at all delicate and it can be an issue.

jensavicci

sharmon1317 said:

jensavicci said:

ashleysyn2 said:

All I want to drink right now is milk, all I want to eat is breakfast food, and I love my pearls.

I think cats are the worst.

Cats are some evil SOBs.

@jensavicci‌ Cats are amazing! My two cats love me almost as much as my husband does! They greet me at the door when I come home, snuggle with me all the time and are the friendliest kitties ever. They love every one.. even cat haters! Haha I mean c'mon how can you not love them!

Lol well.....they are pretty cute. :P

AutumnBonfire

My first year out of college I took a job working with special needs children that did not require a degree and paid minimum wage (5.15). They paid me $7 an hour because I had a college degree. I was in graduate school at the time. A year later I took a job (also working with special needs children) that required a bachelor's degree. I got paid $13 an hour. I lived on my own during that time working part time and obtaining a post-master's degree.

I'm all for people being able to support their families by working, but I just can't get on board with someone being paid $15 an hour to make an effing burger at McDonald's.

cakebatter27

SaraRL07 said:

I refuse to shop in Walmart.  

Hi, my name is Cake and it's been 15 months since my last trip to Walmart. ::waves::

Csltdk

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too.

-"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school, missed their education and have zero family support and have no other options until they can hit management level.

I'm just saying, we are all sitting at our nice comfy desks right now judging and dismissing a huge percentage of the American class system. I don't think min. wage should be raised to $15/hr but it should definitely be higher than under $10 an hour. You cannot live on $10 an hour. It's near impossible to better your situation on the mousewheel when you are constantly in debt.


I have a receptionist who works 35 hours a week in one of my salons and she lives in an apartment by herself drives her own car and pays all of her bills. She gets $8.50 and hour (min wage in my state) and yes she may struggle but she makes ends meet. She doesn't live beyond her means so to say people can't live off min wage is untrue. Can you support a family on it? No, but I can tell you if I was in that position I would get 2 jobs instead of expecting a raise to support my family.

I may be in a great position now but I worked my ass off for it. As far as single mothers who dropped out of school etc, that's their life. It was their choice to make a decision to have intercourse and the outcome of a child is now their responsibility. I don't think the wage should go up becuase they struggle. I think when you are a hard worker your boss notices this and will give raises appropriately.

drunkenhandstand

Yo breakfast hater… just wanted to show you what I'm eating for lunch I seriously think my entire family could survive on breakfast food…. we do "breakfast for dinner" once a week.  

AKbadwolf

BP607 In some states it is the law to move over or drop your speed to 20 mph under the speed limit.  I typically do this anyway even though it isn't the law where I live because it is safest. 

 

In regards to leaving kids in the car-

I agree that leaving infants and toddlers in the car by themselves is dangerous when the car isn't in view.  I will leave DD in the car to finish her nap in my driveway or have her start buckling in while I return the cart to the cart return. 

I will leave my 11 and 13 yr olds in the car when they request it while I run into the store to do shopping, pick up meds, etc.  I lock the doors and they are old enough to scream kick and fight if someone tries to take them, plus they can open the doors and come into the store if it is too hot. 

iris427

I'm no economist and things like minimum wage are conplicated. One of my concerns with raising minimum wage is that if everyone is suddenly making $15 an hour, what's to stop prices on everything from going up because now people have more income? And then we could end up right back where we started, where people making the minimum can't afford things. I'd rather see more govt subsidies for necessities like healthcare, child care, and affordable housing. But politically that's obviously not happening.

Saying the poor should just go get better jobs is ridiculous and not even remotely a solution for addressing poverty. And when you are poor, the very things that make it easier to climb out of poverty are often unattainable.

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netsirk2013

Do you really help naming your kid on the bump? When they grow up will you be proud to say their name was chosen through a poll on the bump, because you couldn't decide on your own?

iris427

cakebatter27 said:

SaraRL07 said:

I refuse to shop in Walmart.  

Hi, my name is Cake and it's been 15 months since my last trip to Walmart. ::waves::

I basically have no choice but to shop at Walmart where we live. If my kid needs new clothes, for example, it's literally the only place to go without driving an hour through the mountains.

Csltdk

@LiteraChick‌ those things can happen, but that's life??? I feel like bad things like that can happen to anyone wether they are making min wage or not. My husband and I make good money but if our septic tank goes we don't have an extra 30 grand lying around to fix it.

darkangel42

I'm not saying it should be 15 an hour, that seems like a lot but it should be a realistic amount to survive on.

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dobbyisfree

So serious question. Im not understanding the difference between leaving your kid buckled in a car seat in your driveway to carry groceries into the house, and leaving your kid alone in your house while you go outside to bring in the groceries. Isnt it the same thing?

ichamommy

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too.

-"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school,

My UO for the day - if you can't afford a baby at 14, don't spread your legs.

iris427

So if we don't address poverty through wage increases, what do we do? More welfare programs to pay for the things people's wages won't cover? I'm guessing a lot of people wouldn't support that either. Do we just ignore poverty altogether and do nothing to try to help people? Despite how much we know that poverty and income inequality hurts our nation as a whole?

helloblueeyes

LiteraChick said:

Csltdk said:

ichabody said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too. -"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school, missed their education and have zero family support and have no other options until they can hit management level.

I'm just saying, we are all sitting at our nice comfy desks right now judging and dismissing a huge percentage of the American class system. I don't think min. wage should be raised to $15/hr but it should definitely be higher than under $10 an hour. You cannot live on $10 an hour. It's near impossible to better your situation on the mousewheel when you are constantly in debt.

I have a receptionist who works 35 hours a week in one of my salons and she lives in an apartment by herself drives her own car and pays all of her bills. She gets $8.50 and hour (min wage in my state) and yes she may struggle but she makes ends meet. She doesn't live beyond her means so to say people can't live off min wage is untrue. Can you support a family on it? No, but I can tell you if I was in that position I would get 2 jobs instead of expecting a raise to support my family. I may be in a great position now but I worked my ass off for it. As far as single mothers who dropped out of school etc, that's their life. It was their choice to make a decision to have intercourse and the outcome of a child is now their responsibility. I don't think the wage should go up becuase they struggle. I think when you are a hard worker your boss notices this and will give raises appropriately.

I think it's awesome your receptionist can stretch her budget. But what if her car got hit? She lost her insurance? A relative dies and needs funeral expenses? She has zero debt/student loans/credit card debt/etc.

You also don't know if she is getting a supplemental income from elsewhere. I'm just saying, that is not the norm. And to say if you work hard your boss will notice and give you a raise? Most corporations do not work on raises for merit, they do them based on time served and structured raise systems. Government jobs are a great example of that and I doubt McDonald's does much besides give you a free lunch.

Also, to say that they decided to have sex and they deserve what they got... I mean... wtf, that smacks a bit of poor shaming. So they deserve to be poor because they had sex? That is a whole other can of worms there. If you don't think min. wage should go up to support them, then why not get rid of welfare, food stamps, free healthcare and food banks. Yeesh.

In the corporation i work for you really won't ever get a raise unless you are one of the few people my boss deems "indispensable" and you threaten to quit. 

I am absolutely essential to the running of our multi-million dollar a year company and i haven't had a raise in years. 

I laugh every time people talk about trickle down effects or merit based things. Because nope, doesn't work that way. 

And for the record the 2 owners make 6 figures a year, and both have at least one car on the company. Health insurance is paid for, they have their kids and wives "work" on the books so that they can earn easy money/savings/401K matching/healthcare. And lets not forget about the corporate credit cards for gas; for them, wives and kids that are old enough to drive. 

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drunkenhandstand

amlonica said:

So serious question. Im not understanding the difference between leaving your kid buckled in a car seat in your driveway to carry groceries into the house, and leaving your kid alone in your house while you go outside to bring in the groceries. Isnt it the same thing?

It's a matter of perspective. I'm not leaving my kids unattended in a locked car while I go into a store but….. um yeah, I'm not hauling three kids to the cart return, I'm not waking a sleeping babe in my own driveway while I unload groceries, etc. Sorry not sorry. And you know what? It doesn't make me a bad mom. Of course you need to take into consideration external circumstances. If it's 100 degrees out, no I'm not leaving my kid in the car, even for a few minutes. I'm also not going to leave the keys in with it running while I return my cart. Common sense… you get the idea.

darkangel42

Lori_n_Lior said:

I think most people who say the minimum wage shouldn't be raised or that people stuck in those jobs should just get a better one are pretty ignorant of what it's like to live on that wage and have been fortunate enough to not to be poor.

Observe the most bolded.

This.

I grew up poor and I'm well aware of what I/my family can and cannot live on. Some people could stand to put the effort in to do better but some haven't got the time/money to invest in education and some have the skills but better opportunities are just not there.

I'm also aware of how stupid the statement "get better education to get paid more" is. My husband has a masters degree and is currently working 2 jobs, one of which is about 12/hour part time in a hardware store and one is a few dollars more as a courier 1 day a week. We're getting by only because we're living with his parents until we can all manage to support our own homes.

I'm starting over again with qualifications you don't have over here so it's hit and miss whether my certificates even mean anything and trying to give references is a nightmare because my entire working life so far was spent in another country/another timezone. Odds are I'll end up back making coffee until I can get comparable qualifications over here and even then, we live in a rural area so it'll be a few hours drive or lower pay to get the job I'd be better suited to.

iris427

ichabody said:

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too.

-"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school,

My UO for the day - if you can't afford a baby at 14, don't spread your legs.

Yeah but people do "spread their legs." We are not talking about how people should live here, we are talking about public policy to address the way people do live. And people do have sex and get pregnant and those children will need food , shelter, clothes, medical care, etc. they need it whether or not you think they should exist.

mamakiss

There are also several other jobs that pay minimum wage that are not fast food, but also require experience to obtain. Minimum wage jobs should always be entry level positions, but that isn't true.

To say someone should just work harder to get a better job... what are they supposed to do while they go to school to get this education to get a better job? And will that job be worth the tens of thousands of dollars of debt it took the get the degree, assuming they can actually get a job in their field?

I don't work minimum wage, technically, but I'm damn near close. I'm also one of 5 people at my job who are working towards a masters degree. My job pays me less than a dollar above minimum wage, but I have the benefits I need and the flexibility I require in order to continue my schooling. However, if I was single, I could not afford to live on my own in a studio apartment and would still struggle to pay for food with supplemental assistance. That's not including various other bills, necessities, or a car payment. I don't even know how I would begin to change that if I was pregnant and single, or pregnant and with someone in the same financial situation as I am.

I definitely don't think fast food warrants $15/hour. But there are tons of other jobs where people are making minimum wage that do deserve to be making much more, the entire system is flawed.

iris427

jessa8907 said:

iris427 said:

So if we don't address poverty through wage increases, what do we do? More welfare programs to pay for the things people's wages won't cover? I'm guessing a lot of people wouldn't support that either. Do we just ignore poverty altogether and do nothing to try to help people? Despite how much we know that poverty and income inequality hurts our nation as a whole?

I definitely think it need to be a combination of things. There is not one-size fits all fix for poverty.

I completely agree.

netsirk2013

Min wage change didn't pass. So why are we still talking about it? I guess this is my UO.

darkangel42

Feel free to flame me - 

I think that if there is a minimum wage, there should be a wage cap.

Bringing down the pay for the very top earners would free up plenty of cash to sort out the lower end, not just the minimum wages but the lower end of the spectrum.

Is everyone being paid 6 digits a year and up actually worth that? Maybe some are but not all of them and I doubt any of them have had to make the choice between paying the electric bill or buying food

ichamommy

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too.

-"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school,

My UO for the day - if you can't afford a baby at 14, don't spread your legs.

............................... I just...can't even...... wow. Icha I dig you and all but that is bullshit.

Since when do 14 year olds in the majority have common sense?

You think they all come from supportive and loving homes? Have a moral sense instilled in them at that age? Or even introduced?


I dig you too @LiteraChick‌. I can definitely see your point and I understand that is the case for a lot of young girls. That's why I prefaced it with "my UO" for the day. I can see how a 14 year old in a shitty home situation I would search to find love from any source. That doesn't mean I think it's right or I would do it myself.

mamakiss

ichabody said:

LiteraChick said:

ichabody said:

darkangel42 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't be the same as a higher level of job, no, but it SHOULD be enough to survive on and, realistically, it isn't.

I survived great on $5.15 an hour in 1998 when I was living at home with my parents and 14 years old. And let me tell you, my first paycheck of $141 was like a goddamn GOLD MINE. And I was also very qualified and good at the job too.

-"First place drive-thru employee in the region" April 1998

You also lived at home and were 14. What about the single Moms out there who had to drop out of high school,

My UO for the day - if you can't afford a baby at 14, don't spread your legs.

Are we going to pretend that everyone on here didn't also "spread their legs"...

There are several people in this bmb alone that do not consider themselves in a prime position or good timeline to be having a baby, but are still over the moon about it, should we have all not "spread our legs" to end up where we are?

Not even going to touch on how our country mostly teaches abstinence only or just flat out ignores sexual education, which should put the blame off of the teenage mothers.

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chevronseven

tundrabunny said:

livelaughlove88 said:

jessa8907 said:

This might get some debate going.

I think raising the minimum wage as much as they are talking about is stupid and irresponsible in an economy that is still recovering from one of the worst recessions in decades.

THANK YOU!!! I agree that it needs to go up, but not $15/hr! That's almost what I make with a college degree! You can scrape by on a lot less than what people seem to think, because we have a funny view of what constitutes a "necessity." I have done it and I have an above average amount of student loan debt; you make sacrifices. It may not be a super comfortable life, but minimum wage isn't meant to be anyone's forever salary. I also think it should be based on dependency status (as in lower for people who are still being claimed by their parents on taxes, because they obviously have no dependants of their own to support).

I don't think it should be based on dependency status. It should be based on the work you do, both type and quality, and what the company is offering. I don't see any reason why a teenager who is responsible and hardworking should be paid less than an adult who may or may not have their same work ethic just because their parents still support them. If we start paying people based on their personal, home circumstances, we're going to start running into problems; if we can pay someone less based on their tax dependency status, then I don't think it would be too far-fetched for a company to say, "well, that woman's husband makes six figures, so we don't have to pay her as much since she's taken care of at home" or "we should pay the person over there some more money because their home circumstances suck even though the quality of work they produce is less than that person over there who has a stable living situation." I don't want companies to be able to have any power over deciding wage based on home/personal/living circumstances. You should be compensated for the work you do, not for your personal situation.


You make a good point, but I'm not saying there should be any limit on what teens make. If they're a good worker then absolutely they should be compensated accordingly. But the MINIMUM that they need to be making is not the same as the minimum that a single mother needs to be making, you know? And this is assuming their parents still claim them. I know a lot of teens are on their own sooner than others, which is why I say tax status and not age. Just one possible solution to a seemingly no win situation.

Csltdk

Are we going to pretend that everyone on here didn't also "spread their legs"...

--------

I did IVF you can't prove I spread my legs ;)

dobbyisfree

I shouldnt even enter in this convo about minimum wage because Im very biased. All I see on a regular basis at work is a blatent abuse of the system. I have a friend who told me her younger sister was part of a group that plotted how soon they could get pregnant in high school so they could get food stamps and be on welfare, and not have to finish school or work. This sister is now 21, with two children, and she sells her food stamps to get cash to buy whatever she wants and depends on her mother and sister to feed her children. And this is the situations I see all the time. Its hard to help people when they are very comfortable taking from you and have no desire to help themselves.

darkangel42

Wage should be based on the work involved but that would be common sense and the folks who set things like wages don't have any.

Making sandwiches is not on the same level as fixing cars is not on the same level as office jobs. Even on the ground floor as an entry level peon, they're totally different and should be paid accordingly. 

Your office peon has to be able to spell and use a computer, your sandwich maker doesn't so your office peon should be getting more than your sandwich making peon for that extra necessary skill. That's not to say your sandwich maker can't spell but it's not relevant whether they can or not, they just have to put stuff in bread which isn't really that hard. I know because I used to make sandwiches and have worked in an office.

acciovino

I have a car that allows me to start and lock so I can leave DD in the car while I return the cart to the cart return. I also take into consideration where I park and always park as close to a cart return as possible so my eyes are always on the car. When she was a baby and in her carrier, I would just take her with me and haul her back to the car with me. My car is always on and the doors are locked if she's in it so I don't see the problem. I would never leave her in the car to go inside a building, but to return a shopping cart or to check the mail 5 ft away from my car won't hurt her.

And yeah, it's inconvenient but if I really need something and she's asleep, I either take her with me or I go another time.

This will clearly be changing when I have LO and I will be confined to my house! lol jk

dobbyisfree

jojobean86 said:

amlonica said:

So serious question. Im not understanding the difference between leaving your kid buckled in a car seat in your driveway to carry groceries into the house, and leaving your kid alone in your house while you go outside to bring in the groceries. Isnt it the same thing?

It's a matter of perspective. I'm not leaving my kids unattended in a locked car while I go into a store but….. um yeah, I'm not hauling three kids to the cart return, I'm not waking a sleeping babe in my own driveway while I unload groceries, etc. Sorry not sorry. And you know what? It doesn't make me a bad mom. Of course you need to take into consideration external circumstances. If it's 100 degrees out, no I'm not leaving my kid in the car, even for a few minutes. I'm also not going to leave the keys in with it running while I return my cart. Common sense… you get the idea.

I think you misunderstand me - I'm not being critical of you. Im saying okay, 6 of one half a dozen of the other - youre leaving your child in the car or in the house for the groceries, why does it matter which place you choose? I wouldnt think twice about not dragging my kid to a cart return in terrible weather. Id park close to the return on purpose, but I think unless youre a kangaroo, there are going to be moments when its not ideal and you do your best.

[Deleted User]

darkangel42 said:

Feel free to flame me - 

I think that if there is a minimum wage, there should be a wage cap.

Bringing down the pay for the very top earners would free up plenty of cash to sort out the lower end, not just the minimum wages but the lower end of the spectrum.

Is everyone being paid 6 digits a year and up actually worth that? Maybe some are but not all of them and I doubt any of them have had to make the choice between paying the electric bill or buying food

Switzerland recently had an initiative that a CEO couldn't make more in a month than its lowest paid employee made in a year. I don't think it passed and I know it would never happen here but it was kind of an intriguing idea. 

iris427

It's not a glamorous life. You won't have a cell phone or cable or a car. But you will probably also qualify for government benefits of some kind as well as subsidies on health insurance if you don't qualify for Medicaid. This is all very doable in the area I live in. 

This is not accounting for someone trying to support a family off of minimum wage, obviously. But someone making that little money would most certainly qualify for government assistance if they also had children. Childcare would be the most burdensome expense at that point.

Just wanted to add here that the programs you can get vary by state. In my state, it's very hard for a non-pregnant adult to get Medicaid (and pregnancy Medicaid ONLY covers pregnancy stuff, so if you break your leg you are SOL) and the state govt opted out of the ACA Medicaid expansion. Meanwhile the ACA subsidies only kick in at 138% of the federal poverty level. So if you make less, you don't get any help with healthcare. You can also forget receiving any help with the cost of childcare--our state subsidy had a 2 year freeze last time I looked into it. TANF is just as the name suggests, temporary. And many of these programs are the first to get trimmed during budget battles--look how many kids were kicked out of Head Start during the sequester recently. It's not always so easy to get help from the government.