:::UO:::

SusieBW

youngin12 said:

You may think I'm a horrible person but if you willingly take the life of someone else, you deserve to have your life taken.

I'm truly, truly sorry that your DH had to experience that, and then be made to relive it again and again over the years.  That's horrible.

But the bolded is exactly what the government is doing through capital punishment.  I can't get behind the idea of an eye for an eye.  Like, at all.  Killing other human beings is wrong, the end.  Just because someone killed another person, that doesn't make it right to then turn around and kill them.

youngin12

LightBright515 said:

Uhhh it makes a difference to their family and their kids!

It absolutely does not. If they willingly killed someone, they knew exactly what they were doing and they knew the consequences. 

trisharenee0316

MrsSinner402 said:

There is a gray area here, just as there are gray areas in the Democrat vs. Republican debate. I'm all for it for people that did the crime, but unfortunately there's not much we can do about those wrongly convicted. And of course I'm not all for it for them. It's an unfortunate series of events for that person and I know when I hear about someone being found innocent after being put to death you can bet your ass I feel terrible. So I guess I'm right there with you with the pro-cap most of the time.

There really isn't a gray area here.  There may be some dissonance regarding that fact, but there's no real shades of gray.  You say that you're all for it for people who did the crime and that's where my line is/was as well, but after studying crime and capital punishment at least through a legal lens, I've seen there are too many times where it just seems obvious that the person did it, they confessed, etc. only to have it revealed after they were put to death that there was serious misconduct by the police and/or prosecution and later DNA evidence or other types of evidence prove the individual didn't commit the murder.  And frankly, even once is enough.  So even in cases where it seems like a slam dunk, we still have to acknowledge there's a chance that the person is innocent and have to be OK putting that thought to the side if that person is executed. 

If we are saying the life of an innocent person is worth putting a murderer to death, then when the capital punishment system has taken the life of more than one innocent person, is it worth putting that system to death?  I grapple with this question every time I hear about an execution, honestly.

MollyC20

LightBright515 said:

LightBright515 said:

Uhhh it makes a difference to their family and their kids!

Tough shit, for real. I feel WAYYYYY worse for the victims families and kids.

Their children are victims too. One victim just trumps another?

The difference is the offender CHOSE to commit the crime, the victim's didn't have a choice.  If the offender didn't give two shits about doing it, and what it would do to their family, why should we?  

Eastie156

PurpleHippo19 said:

I hate cheesecake.

Sorry, didn't have anything juicier.

Blasphemy! I love it when I'm not pregnant. Right now it just sounds so gross. I can't even...

SusieBW

TheOtherJacobsons said:

I have an UO that I have been dreading posting and I am sure that I will get some flack for it. I know that it will offend some women on here, women that I respect and actually like. I am sorry in advance because I am not judging you, I just really don't understand it and I don't think I ever will. With that being said, my UO is that I don't understand extended BFing. Why not pump if you want to continue to provide the nutrients from your milk? It is not because I feel that BFing is in any way a sexual thing, but I do find the idea of BFing a walking talking human weird. I think it is a strange behavior and it creeps me out. I am not even sure why it does, but it does. I have probably felt this way my whole life. My mom didn't even have to wean me. I was something like 1 and I refused the breast. I decided that I was done and that was the end of that. 

Maybe I'll get lucky and the topic of capital punishment will be more interesting than this.

I agree with this too.  To each their own, but somehow I feel like when a kid is old enough to ask for it, they're too old to nurse.  But I only nursed until DD was about 5 months old and that's probably about all I'll do with this baby, too.  I don't mind it, but I certainly didn't love it, and I truly hated pumping.

@theresat858, you said you were glad your friend was still nursing her 18 month old because kids need more than a vegan diet can provide - like what?  I'm not sure any human NEEDS more than a vegan diet can provide, we just like it.  Personally, I often feel like I'd die without cheese, but I know for a fact that's not true.

Eastie156

PBJellyTime said:

I LOVE Cheesecake! And melons, and I do agree with Capital Punishment - even the botched ones.  I heard about the guy who got the first of 3 lethal injections, but had a heart attack and died after the first injection and thought - well, saved some money on the rest of those shots! LOL, maybe I'm a horrible person, but after working at a sex offender facility for 3 years, I have seen TOO many bad people - and watched them go free and ruin lives again.

My UO is I don't think young children should be brought to see every 3D movie. I think every once in a while is okay, but not all the time.  ESPECIALLY youngans with ADD & ADHD.  Based on my experiences, I believe 3D movies are waaaay to overstimulating and children have a hard time processing all of it.

I should clarify. I love titted for the cheesecake part.

Eastie156

Big UO- I'm against capital punishment. I don't think it's necessary and IMO doesn't teach anyone anything, except that it's ok to kill. I don't think an eye for an eye is right to teach. I agree jailing inmates is incredibly expensive, but so are executions.

[Deleted User]

When I see debates like this, I always wonder what tune the people who are against capital punishment would be singing if it were their own young child who was brutally raped/tortured/murdered by one of these criminals. Would they be feeling so righteous then? Of course, I hope we never get a chance to find out. It's just easy to say "Think of the criminal's family!" when you are not one of the poor victim's family who is going through unspeakable suffering due to the choices and actions of said criminal.

SusieBW

I HATE 3D movies.  They mostly look like a jumbled mess to me.
Apparently there is some kind of vision problem that makes it so the 3d images don't line up right, and I think I might have that.  Sometimes I can see the 3d stuff, but mostly it's a big mess and a whole feature film of it gives me a terrible headache.

MrsSinner402

SusieBW said:

I HATE 3D movies.  They mostly look like a jumbled mess to me.
Apparently there is some kind of vision problem that makes it so the 3d images don't line up right, and I think I might have that.  Sometimes I can see the 3d stuff, but mostly it's a big mess and a whole feature film of it gives me a terrible headache.

Me too! Now if its an animated film like Pixar, I love those. But actual movies in 3D just don't cut it for me.

JessAnnJ

SusieBW said:

I HATE 3D movies.  They mostly look like a jumbled mess to me.
Apparently there is some kind of vision problem that makes it so the 3d images don't line up right, and I think I might have that.  Sometimes I can see the 3d stuff, but mostly it's a big mess and a whole feature film of it gives me a terrible headache.

This. I'm really irritated that they are making so many movies into 3D. Then when you watch the non 3D versions there are random parts thrown in for the purpose of the 3D version that look stupid.

youngin12

SusieBW said:

I HATE 3D movies.  They mostly look like a jumbled mess to me.
Apparently there is some kind of vision problem that makes it so the 3d images don't line up right, and I think I might have that.  Sometimes I can see the 3d stuff, but mostly it's a big mess and a whole feature film of it gives me a terrible headache.

You're not alone! This is me, too. DH and I refuse to get a 3D TV because of this reason.

golfingdarwinfish

theresat858 said:

JessAnnJ said:

I am for capital punishment. I don't care about their children having to deal with it. I imagine that dealing with a parent that committed an heinous crime is the most difficult part. However, I did hear at one point, and I am not sure if it's true anymore that it's actually more costly to execute someone than put them in prison for life.

I am not against capital punishment, but isn't it LESS of a punishment to let the person die than to make them rot in jail? This where I've never understood this one... and yes, the cost thing makes no sense, but apparently is (or was) true, which also makes the pro-capital punishment argument make less sense.

It's in large part due to costs associated with the appeal process.

When I was in business school in 2011 we had had to run the analysis of a life sentence (I would have to pull up the analysis to recall the number of years that we used) vs. death by lethal injection.  I forget which state was used in our example as that did drive the cost portion, but the outcome was lethal injection was more expensive.  Things may have changed, but I know the professor made every first year foundations of finance class conduct the analysis with the most recent costs. 

Heartwood0519

I love reading this debate, and all debates, actually.  I always have my own opinions, but I never feel like I'm educated enough on a topic to state them.  If I don't have enough information from either side, I feel stupid stating what I think in case I'm horribly wrong on something.

Anyway, I admire all of you that are debating, though!

SusieBW

noonandj04 said:

When I see debates like this, I always wonder what tune the people who are against capital punishment would be singing if it were their own young child who was brutally raped/tortured/murdered by one of these criminals. Would they be feeling so righteous then? Of course, I hope we never get a chance to find out. It's just easy to say "Think of the criminal's family!" when you are not one of the poor victim's family who is going through unspeakable suffering due to the choices and actions of said criminal.

Even if my child/husband/parent were the victim, I think killing is wrong, the end.  It has nothing to do with the criminal's family for me, it's about morals.  I could not live with a clean conscience if I believed it was ever okay to take someone's life.  Let the fucker rot in jail, but I cannot get behind state-sanctioned murder, no matter what the circumstance or it's personal effect on me.

youngin12

VCGolfNYC said:

theresat858 said:

JessAnnJ said:

I am for capital punishment. I don't care about their children having to deal with it. I imagine that dealing with a parent that committed an heinous crime is the most difficult part. However, I did hear at one point, and I am not sure if it's true anymore that it's actually more costly to execute someone than put them in prison for life.

I am not against capital punishment, but isn't it LESS of a punishment to let the person die than to make them rot in jail? This where I've never understood this one... and yes, the cost thing makes no sense, but apparently is (or was) true, which also makes the pro-capital punishment argument make less sense.

It's in large part due to costs associated with the appeal process.

When I was in business school in 2011 we had had to run the analysis of a life sentence (I would have to pull up the analysis to recall the number of years that we used) vs. death by lethal injection.  I forget which state was used in our example as that did drive the cost portion, but the outcome was lethal injection was more expensive.  Things may have changed, but I know the professor made every first year foundations of finance class conduct the analysis with the most recent costs. 

I may be in the minority on this one but, honestly, I don't care if it costs more for capital punishment. They do not deserve to live. If they stay in jail for life or even are able to get out on parole, they still have the chance at living a somewhat normal life. They have human interaction, they have TV, they have phone, internet, and they get to see and hear what is going on in this world when the innocent person(s) they murdered cannot do those things.

persephonerose

@theotherjacobsons what do you consider extended? I did 14 months and I got a lot of strange looks for that. I didn't get why people were so concerned over it. The AAP recommends at least a year.

I do agree with PP. Pumping at that stage was very annoying and took much longer than the 3-5 minutes my son wanted to nurse. At 11 months I would say he certainly "asked" for boob. He would come up and pat them then look at me waiting. If I didn't respond he would lift my shirt and help himself sometimes. 

persephonerose

I dislike when parents tell their children "adults are talking" I feel like it dimishes the child and teaches them that whatever they have to say is not as important or as valuable as what adults are saying.   Maybe it is not important to YOU but to them they consider it very important.  Making your kid stand around for 30+ minutes while you talk about celebrity gossip with your BFF because "adults are talking" is dumb. 

I am for teaching kids not to interrupt conversations and waiting their turn, but that phrase needs to die. Andplusalso if it was an adult they would not make them wait that long to ask what they wanted. 

It also bugs me when parents with insurance don't take their kids to well check ups. Most insurance covers it at 100%. By not taking your kid I think you are teaching them only to go to the doctor when they are sick, when more Americans can benefit from preventative care.

SusieBW

theresat858 said:

SusieBW said:

@theresat858, you said you were glad your friend was still nursing her 18 month old because kids need more than a vegan diet can provide - like what?  I'm not sure any human NEEDS more than a vegan diet can provide, we just like it.  Personally, I often feel like I'd die without cheese, but I know for a fact that's not true.

Well, for one, there are definitely certain vitamins (I think it's B6, but it might be a different B vitamin) that vegan diets are lacking.  We evolved as omnivores, so our bodies are designed to process both plant based sources of food and animal based sources. When you entirely cut out animal sources, you leave a gaping nutritional hole...if you are very careful with a vegan diet, yes, you can still be healthy (at least as an adult), though I'm not sure the same is true of a developing child.  Supplements (I think its B6?) are necessary for all vegans, because plant sources really can't provide everything we need... and it's far trickier to get proper protein intake of all of the essential amino acids as a vegan, but certainly possible (though maybe not for a picky toddler).

Nope.  The key is in having a nutritionally balanced diet, but that by no means has to include animal sources to cover all of the vitamins and minerals that we need.  B12 is the vitamin deficiency you're thinking of, and industrial food production is the reason that many vegetables and plant sources now lack the B12 that they used to and should contain.  Eating fresh, organic, locally grown plants solves the problem.  So does eating supplements and enriched foods or just taking vitamins, but that's not even necessary.  I'm not a vegan, or even a vegetarian anymore (I still don't eat cow, pig, or any of the more uncommon animals like deer), but there is no doubt in my mind that it's completely possible to eat a well-balanced, nutritionally complete diet with no animal sources at all.

TheOtherJacobsons

Nicb13 said:

persephonerose said:

@theotherjacobsons what do you consider extended? I did 14 months and I got a lot of strange looks for that. I didn't get why people were so concerned over it. The AAP recommends at least a year.

I do agree with PP. Pumping at that stage was very annoying and took much longer than the 3-5 minutes my son wanted to nurse. At 11 months I would say he certainly "asked" for boob. He would come up and pat them then look at me waiting. If I didn't respond he would lift my shirt and help himself sometimes. 

I don't consider 14 months "extended". 2 or 3 years old, yes, that's extended IMO.

What she said. 

I think it'll happen naturally for me since I will need to pump when I go back to work after 6 months. I heard it's hard to manage BFing and pumping. Regardless, once teeth happen, I am pumping exclusively. 

jcsumm0

Nicb13 said:

theresat858 said:

SusieBW said:

@theresat858, you said you were glad your friend was still nursing her 18 month old because kids need more than a vegan diet can provide - like what?  I'm not sure any human NEEDS more than a vegan diet can provide, we just like it.  Personally, I often feel like I'd die without cheese, but I know for a fact that's not true.

Well, for one, there are definitely certain vitamins (I think it's B6, but it might be a different B vitamin) that vegan diets are lacking.  We evolved as omnivores, so our bodies are designed to process both plant based sources of food and animal based sources. When you entirely cut out animal sources, you leave a gaping nutritional hole...if you are very careful with a vegan diet, yes, you can still be healthy (at least as an adult), though I'm not sure the same is true of a developing child.  Supplements (I think its B6?) are necessary for all vegans, because plant sources really can't provide everything we need... and it's far trickier to get proper protein intake of all of the essential amino acids as a vegan, but certainly possible (though maybe not for a picky toddler).

So you can judge vegans when you clearly aren't one and don't know all that much about it (hence all your "I thinks" and question marks) but you think others shouldn't judge extended BF'ers? No, you don't have to be a parent or have a kid to think it's strange to see an older toddler nursing.

I know tons and tons of vegans, with healthy vegan children. It can be done.

And I agree with the extended BF thing. I think it's weird. Yep, weird.

I'm sorry, but fuck that.  I don't care what you do with your boobs and your kid, but it is just. not. weird.  In societies where BFing is the norm and kids wean themselves, the average age of natural weaning is 2-7 years old.  If you look at evidence from other species and human history, it is perfectly normal for children to nurse into toddlerhood.

You don't wake up one day and latch on a 3 year old.  Your newborn becomes a baby, your baby becomes a toddler, your toddler becomes a preschooler.  And each day you nurse them because it makes them happy and it makes you happy too (well, most of the time, anyway). 

And the idea of pumping for an toddler makes me LOL.  Pumping sucks, it is really hard work.  And toddlers are there for the nutrition somewhat, but more for the bonding and cuddles with mom.

Interesting reading about normal-term nursing: https://www.kathydettwyler.org/commentaries/weaning.html

https://www.incultureparent.com/2011/02/breastfeeding-land-genghis-khan/

SusieBW

persephonerose said:

I dislike when parents tell their children "adults are talking" I feel like it dimishes the child and teaches them that whatever they have to say is not as important or as valuable as what adults are saying.   Maybe it is not important to YOU but to them they consider it very important.  Making your kid stand around for 30+ minutes while you talk about celebrity gossip with your BFF because "adults are talking" is dumb. 

ITA with this too.

jcsumm0

Oh and saying that kids who can "ask for it" are too old to nurse is absolutely ridiculous.  An infant gives feeding cues to ask to nurse.  DD could do the sign for "nurse" when she was 11 months old.  Guess I should have started giving her formula then!

LightBright515

noonandj04 said:

When I see debates like this, I always wonder what tune the people who are against capital punishment would be singing if it were their own young child who was brutally raped/tortured/murdered by one of these criminals. Would they be feeling so righteous then? Of course, I hope we never get a chance to find out. It's just easy to say "Think of the criminal's family!" when you are not one of the poor victim's family who is going through unspeakable suffering due to the choices and actions of said criminal.

I am apart of one of those families. I'm a victim, and I won't be dismissed because another victims side is more "heartfelt." It still sucks. And although my personal testimony isn't as black and white as those not affected like to make it seem, it still sucks. But again, you're entitled to your stance, and ill continue to hold mine

LightBright515

On a lighter note, I hate dill.

SusieBW

theresat858 said:

jcsumm0 said:

Oh and saying that kids who can "ask for it" are too old to nurse is absolutely ridiculous.  An infant gives feeding cues to ask to nurse.  DD could do the sign for "nurse" when she was 11 months old.  Guess I should have started giving her formula then!

I'm pretty sure your newborn crying is also "asking" for it.  But preverbal communication doesn't count?

I don't know, I just think it's different when a walking, talking toddler is asking to nurse versus an infant crying.  I can't really explain or back myself up on this one, it's just how I feel.  And I honestly don't feel very strongly about this issue at all - if you're into extended BFing, have at it.  You do what works out best for your family.  I still think it's kind of odd, but that's me.  Again, BFing was fine for me, DD latched well and it was pretty easy for us from the beginning, but I never felt that OMGbonding with her because of it.  When I got sick of doing it, and it was no longer best for my family, I stopped.

pushgal84

theresat858 said:

JessAnnJ said:

I am for capital punishment. I don't care about their children having to deal with it. I imagine that dealing with a parent that committed an heinous crime is the most difficult part. However, I did hear at one point, and I am not sure if it's true anymore that it's actually more costly to execute someone than put them in prison for life.

I am not against capital punishment, but isn't it LESS of a punishment to let the person die than to make them rot in jail? This where I've never understood this one... and yes, the cost thing makes no sense, but apparently is (or was) true, which also makes the pro-capital punishment argument make less sense.

That pretty much sums up why I'm undecided on the topic and I'm not against capital punishment. If someone intentionally kills someone else they deserve to suffer, period. What I'm not sure about is whether the death sentence is worse than sitting in jail for the rest of their life. So I guess you could say I'm for whatever punishment the offender would least prefer and would cause the most personal suffering. I guess until that can be cleared up, go with whatever is more cost effective. IMO I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life in jail, but than again I don't really know what it's like to be incarcerated.

SusieBW

I have another!  I don't like seeing infant car seat things with the handle up and a blanket over them.  You know how people will do that in stores or whatever to keep the germs away from a baby?  I don't like it.  It makes me think of the baby being in an isolation chamber, deprived of sights and sounds or whatever.  I know that I'm totally being over-dramatic with that comparison, but that's honestly what it reminds me of.  I always feel bad for the baby because they're not getting to see anything happening around them.

JessAnnJ

@noonandj04‌ I wonder that as well.

@SusieBW‌ do you really believe it is never okay to take someone's life or are you just referring to the capital punishment issue? I would absolutely take someone else's life to protect my family. Even though I don't share your opinion, I get where you are coming from regarding capital punishment and I respect your opinion, I'm just curious if you really meant never.

@youngin12‌ I don't care that it costs more. I just mentioned it because I don't think everyone is aware.

@TheOtherJacobsons‌ I feel the same way about older toddlers but I think it's one of those things I might feel differently about if I had a toddler wanting to breastfeed. Maybe I'll have more success with breastfeeding this time around and see if my opinion changes.

pushgal84

Nicb13 said:

SusieBW said:

I have another!  I don't like seeing infant car seat things with the handle up and a blanket over them.  You know how people will do that in stores or whatever to keep the germs away from a baby?  I don't like it.  It makes me think of the baby being in an isolation chamber, deprived of sights and sounds or whatever.  I know that I'm totally being over-dramatic with that comparison, but that's honestly what it reminds me of.  I always feel bad for the baby because they're not getting to see anything happening around them.

Haha this is a silly one. I used to do that all the time with DS because when he was asleep, I'd basically go to the ends of the earth to make sure he stayed that way and if a blanket kept some of the noise and the light out, I was all over it!

Yeah, I'd only do that if the baby is asleep and I wanted it to stay that way. However, I can't imagine using a blanket over the carrier too often seeing as it's always so hot in Southern CA.

yoyopez

i hate when people say "maybe" when they really mean "no."  if i don't want to or can't do ______(whatever), i say so.  i'd rather someone be a little butt-hurt than to keep them wondering or have them keep bugging me about it.

SusieBW

JessAnnJ said:

 @SusieBW‌ do you really believe it is never okay to take someone's life or are you just referring to the capital punishment issue? I would absolutely take someone else's life to protect my family. Even though I don't share your opinion, I get where you are coming from regarding capital punishment and I respect your opinion, I'm just curious if you really meant never.

I really mean never.  If it came down to the point where I had to kill someone to defend myself or my family, I honestly don't think I could do it.  I don't know.  I hope to never, ever be put in that situation, obviously, and I'd like to think I would do anything to defend my family, but I really don't know that I could.  And maybe that's an UO in and of itself.

jcsumm0

It's one thing to say "Extending BFing is not for me."  It's another thing to say something that lots of women here do, something that is normal for many, many parts of the world, something that is biologically normal for human toddlers, is "weird."  IDK maybe I'm just feisty/sensitive today.  That just really rubbed me the wrong way.

SusieBW

pushgal84 said:

Nicb13 said:

SusieBW said:

I have another!  I don't like seeing infant car seat things with the handle up and a blanket over them.  You know how people will do that in stores or whatever to keep the germs away from a baby?  I don't like it.  It makes me think of the baby being in an isolation chamber, deprived of sights and sounds or whatever.  I know that I'm totally being over-dramatic with that comparison, but that's honestly what it reminds me of.  I always feel bad for the baby because they're not getting to see anything happening around them.

Haha this is a silly one. I used to do that all the time with DS because when he was asleep, I'd basically go to the ends of the earth to make sure he stayed that way and if a blanket kept some of the noise and the light out, I was all over it!

Yeah, I'd only do that if the baby is asleep and I wanted it to stay that way. However, I can't imagine using a blanket over the carrier too often seeing as it's always so hot in Southern CA.

I said myself it's kind of a silly overreaction, and I understand that the point is to keep germs away from tiny babies, and that makes perfect sense.  And you're absolutely right, most babies in those little tents are probably sleeping anyway, but I always think of isolation chambers for some reason . . .

fireflyrebirth

Either killing is wrong or...nope, killing is wrong.

Emerald27

TheOtherJacobsons said:

I have an UO that I have been dreading posting and I am sure that I will get some flack for it. I know that it will offend some women on here, women that I respect and actually like. I am sorry in advance because I am not judging you, I just really don't understand it and I don't think I ever will. With that being said, my UO is that I don't understand extended BFing. Why not pump if you want to continue to provide the nutrients from your milk? It is not because I feel that BFing is in any way a sexual thing, but I do find the idea of BFing a walking talking human weird. I think it is a strange behavior and it creeps me out. I am not even sure why it does, but it does. I have probably felt this way my whole life. My mom didn't even have to wean me. I was something like 1 and I refused the breast. I decided that I was done and that was the end of that. 

Maybe I'll get lucky and the topic of capital punishment will be more interesting than this.

The immunological benefits of breastmilk are not tailored to your kid's needs if it's pumped milk. And it's about the relationship, not just about the milk. I nurse my 2.5 year old because he hasn't outgrown the need for it. I love the snuggles, the closeness, and he gets the added bonus of the nutrition within my milk that is formulated specifically to meet his unique needs. Breastmilk rocks and doesn't lose it's nutritional value at any arbitrary age:

fireflyrebirth

Doesn't the WHO recommend breastfeeding through age two?

Emerald27

SusieBW said:

TheOtherJacobsons said:

I have an UO that I have been dreading posting and I am sure that I will get some flack for it. I know that it will offend some women on here, women that I respect and actually like. I am sorry in advance because I am not judging you, I just really don't understand it and I don't think I ever will. With that being said, my UO is that I don't understand extended BFing. Why not pump if you want to continue to provide the nutrients from your milk? It is not because I feel that BFing is in any way a sexual thing, but I do find the idea of BFing a walking talking human weird. I think it is a strange behavior and it creeps me out. I am not even sure why it does, but it does. I have probably felt this way my whole life. My mom didn't even have to wean me. I was something like 1 and I refused the breast. I decided that I was done and that was the end of that. 

Maybe I'll get lucky and the topic of capital punishment will be more interesting than this.

I agree with this too.  To each their own, but somehow I feel like when a kid is old enough to ask for it, they're too old to nurse.  But I only nursed until DD was about 5 months old and that's probably about all I'll do with this baby, too.  I don't mind it, but I certainly didn't love it, and I truly hated pumping.

@theresat858, you said you were glad your friend was still nursing her 18 month old because kids need more than a vegan diet can provide - like what?  I'm not sure any human NEEDS more than a vegan diet can provide, we just like it.  Personally, I often feel like I'd die without cheese, but I know for a fact that's not true.


@SusieBW‌ Newborns are old enough to ask to nurse. They do so by rooting for the breast, sucking on their hands, and crying if mom didn't notice the more subtle cues. 6mo olds are old enough to ask by pressing their cute faces into mom's shirt, and maybe tugging at it. Just because a 1yo is beginning to communicate via language doesn't mean that he couldn't ask in other ways before his tongue was developed enough to form the word. I respect your opinion, but honestly it makes no sense to me that asking for it is a bad thing...we don't withhold cuddles when they're old enough to ask for them, just because they're old enough to ask.

youngin12

SusieBW said:

JessAnnJ said:

 @SusieBW‌ do you really believe it is never okay to take someone's life or are you just referring to the capital punishment issue? I would absolutely take someone else's life to protect my family. Even though I don't share your opinion, I get where you are coming from regarding capital punishment and I respect your opinion, I'm just curious if you really meant never.

I really mean never.  If it came down to the point where I had to kill someone to defend myself or my family, I honestly don't think I could do it.  I don't know.  I hope to never, ever be put in that situation, obviously, and I'd like to think I would do anything to defend my family, but I really don't know that I could.  And maybe that's an UO in and of itself.

To me, this is a different topic than the capital punishment we are talking about. I think there is a *huge* difference between defense and willingly (or premeditated) murder. You best believe I would kill in self-defense of me or my family. And there's another UO, that's why I have a handgun carry permit. Granted, I'm the worst permit holder ever and rarely carry but the option is there.

FWIW, even though I feel so strongly on these topics, I wholeheartedly respect everyone's decision and hope, regardless of situation, none of us are ever in a place to have to make a choice to kill.