UO

amberpro

greenbeanqueen said:

amberpro said:

Why is education the only "job" in which people think they are fully qualified to "do better" than an entire system that's already in place?  

I have no delusions that I can fix my own AC, run a company, sew and design my own clothing, build my own house, etc.  If I'm upset at the government, I don't form my own country.  I don't even have delusions that I can teach anyone chemistry or algebra.  

For that matter, even if I WAS fully qualified, there's something to be said about being exposed to various teaching styles and points of view.

I'm not sure why you have job in quotations. As a licensed teacher I feel I am fully qualified to teach my own children. I am licensed k-6, middle and high school education.

If I were a licensed electrician or plumber you better believe I would be doing my own plumbing or electrical. 

That is why I have said there should be qualifications for homeschool moms, if public school teachers must be licensed there should at least be minimum homeschool teacher  requirements. Maybe a test of some kind. And all students should have to pass some type of test each year to have an accredited diploma. 

It's in quotes because I don't consider true teaching a job, more of a career and passion.  I also feel I am qualified to teach my children the things I am certified in.  I still think being in a classroom setting is what is best for them.  Also, no man is an island.  I feel I'm a better teacher when I'm surrounded by other qualified professionals.  

iranwithscissors

MissyC979 said:

I can't remember whether we've talked about this before, so maybe a repeat. But what's the deal with ombre hair? It usually just looks like you're not keeping up with your roots...

That is the point of an ombre, so you don't have to keep up with getting a touch up, yet you're still able to have a fun color. The girls that I do ombres on will go 4-6 months without a touch up.

azmama20

MarBee1214 said:

hckygrl909 said:

My UO: I hate the tolerance PC crap going on now..there's a double standard completely. Why can't people have different view points and live it at that without trying to throw labels on people. Example: if someone is against gay-marriage they're automatically labeled homophobic or ignorant..where's the tolerance of a different view?

If your "different view" impinges on another's ability to enjoy his own "different view" it's a little hypocritical isn't it?

Saying you don't believe in gay marriage doesn't mean you are actively fighting against it.  So no, having a different view isn't "impinging" on anyone else's different view in every case.

THIS to whatever PC thing you can come up with. There is a difference with disagreeing with someone and actively fighting against their lifestyle. You can have your own opinion and not be bigoted or whatever. We can all coexist without accepting differences of opinions. It's as simple as agreeing to disagree and moving on.

blainethetrain

Chillpr said:

hckygrl909 said:

Chillpr said:

My UO:

I hate the tolerance PC crap going on now..there's a double standard completely. Why can't people have different view points and live it at that without trying to throw labels on people.

Example: if someone is against gay-marriage they're automatically labeled homophobic or ignorant..where's the tolerance of a different view?

If your "different view" impinges on another's ability to enjoy his own "different view" it's a little hypocritical isn't it?

No. I say that because it's an opinion....everyone can have one whether you like it or not. That is my point to the UO. Who cares is someone is being a hypocrite? Its the point that no one is tolerant enough to say "ok, I don't agree so we'll agree to disagree". They make you say, "ok." And shut your mouth on the rest because if you don't you'll be labeled. Why can't the other person just say the same thing?

What if I said I wouldn't marry someone outside my race?
Reactions would be: OMG, you must be racist. Instead of, "ok, don't agree, but we can agree to disagree".

Not the same. The difference being that being anti gay marriage means no one can marry someone of the same sex, instead of saying "I would never marry someone of the same sex" which would be comparable to your statement about interracial marriage.

azmama20

superspecialsnowflake said:

rfred20 said:

Any like I was saying, No public schools in AZ (that I've heard of), offer any education of that sort. 

@rfred20 how many AZ schools have you closely examined, and in what manner have you reviewed their curriculum?

I corrected myself saying that they either aren't offered, or are made nearly impossible to schedule around. I have a lot of experience in schools here being that I have a large family and acquaintance base with school aged children, including my own education and education of my brothers and sisters here in AZ. There are a variety of ages and districts in my "pool of data" if you will. And the vast majority of families and individuals agree on my general consensus. 

Basically the education out here needs a serious overhaul. It's one of the absolute worsts in the country. 

canicksmom

It's possible to be a quiet bigot. Just because someone isn't out lobbying their beliefs doesn't mean they aren't destructive.

azmama20

CLY80 said:

It's possible to be a quiet bigot. Just because someone isn't out lobbying their beliefs doesn't mean they aren't destructive.

I will agree with you on this. Just like some people are closet racists.

azmama20

MarBee1214 said:

So if someone said they believed in segregation in schools but did not advocate for that, would they be racist?

I never said I wouldn't consider them to be racist.  But saying "I believe...." but you sit at home on your ass on voting day, you are not actively suppressing someone else's rights just by stating an opinion.  If you go vote, you are.

ETA: whoa sorry about the grammar, but I can't keep up with all these new posts!

This is why I'm libertarian-ish. Keep my opinions as my own, but let other people live their lives as they wish.

azmama20

Cashingn2 said:

@chillpr, I would never agree to disagree with someone who was in support of segregation.

I can't think of a reason to be "for" it.

MissyC979

Chillpr said:

 @colerose If someone was for segregation, agree to disagree and move on.... Did it meant they weren't still nice to their maid or cook?

Say what?!?

azmama20

Cashingn2 said:

Cashingn2 said:

@chillpr, I would never agree to disagree with someone who was in support of segregation.

I can't think of a reason to be "for" it.

Nor could I, but people were...and chillpr said it. Eta: and you love titted it so I assume you saw it.

Love tit was for everything else but that comment.

ETA: Shoudl I un-love tit because of that comment?

azmama20

Heaven802002 said:

My UO: I hate when parents move their kids to shitty cities/towns with bad schools and no real job opportunities just to be able to afford a house. I rather work my ass off and have my kids living in an apt so they can go to good schools and have better opportunities in life.

This is why DH and I haven't thought about buying a house until we get more financially stable. We don't know if we want to live in AZ permanently.

azmama20

Cashingn2 said:

@refred20, I give no fucks about what you love tit. Your comment to me suggested that you did not see why I was saying that to chillpr. I was pointing out why.

Ah, sorry if that was unclear. Not what I meant at all.

golfingdarwinfish

superspecialsnowflake said:

VCGolfNYC said:

bubblesmtu said:

superspecialsnowflake said:

This is actually a changing trend in higher education.  I've worked with a number of students who actively teach at area colleges and universities, but are being required by their schools to come back for a M.Ed.  I don't necessarily foresee this trend catching on nation-wide, but higher ed institutions are beginning to realize that good teachers are more than experts in their given field.

That's so great that some schools are addressing that issue. I hope it's a trend nation wide someday. I'm sure it's a PITA for those students who need to go to more classes and pay even more for school but it will benefit everyone in the end.
I had one prof for a chemistry class say on the first day 'I don't know how to talk down to your level so good luck'
@-)

It's really difficult to tell someone who just spent 7 years pursuing their PhD (not to mention postdoc time) that they now need to go back and earn an additional graduate degree.  Depending on the discipline and school, teaching can be a somewhat small portion of a professors duties.  Many scientists and mathematicians go into academia for a myriad of reasons, and the lecture portion isn't always high on their list.  And, universities tend to hire based on research focus (at least in the sciences) and how the individuals interests fit into the current needs.  In the sciences academia offers you the opportunity to pursue your personal research interests; that is one of the things that makes academia attractive.  For many teaching is secondary.  To get universities to approach this differently would be rocking their foundation.

Right, and this is why I don't necessarily see the "get your M.Ed." mandate being established nationwide.  If anything were to happen, I would foresee a movement for more professional development opportunities to help experts translate their knowledge into good teaching practices.  Not the demand that they go spend another few years earning a degree. 

I also think it's important to look at this form an institutional and student body perspective. Harvard University, for example, attracts different professors and students than your local private college.  Harvard is always going to have people enrolling and is always going to want to invite the top student and faculty candidates to participate at their institution.  Your local private college, however, often has to be very concerned about meeting their enrollment numbers, and they're not going to be able to do that without addressing things like the quality of classroom instruction.  Not surprisingly, the students I mentioned working with are from local community colleges.


Completely agree!

lifesaverz

so I feel that this thread is probably about the explode.  Anyways...

About the homeschooling thing, my mom homeschooled me & my 3 other siblings, & I actually feel like it was a great experience & gave me a great head-start in the world.  Although my mom doesn't have a degree in teaching specifically, she does have a bachelors degree, is extremely smart & has always been a great teacher.  Academically I feel like all my siblings & I were actually given a great start & advantage because of being homeschooled, & when I started attending a JC full time at 16 years old I had no problems learning the material & earning good grades, & I went on to earn my Masters degree by the age of 22.  My older sister didn't start college right away but just graduated with her bachelors in nursing, with amazing grades, & my younger brother is about to graduate this year with his bachelors in aerospace engineering, an incredibly difficult field, from a pretty well-renowned college, with insanely high grades as well.  My youngest brother decided college wasn't for him so he learned a trade & is working with my dad.

I do agree with rfred20 that college isn't for everyone, & I do wish schools presented a little more balanced view of the options available to people after HS & not just drilling the need for higher education, although it's great, but trades are also great options as well.  

Now in regards to homeschooling, I will say that I feel like I did have some "catching up" to do when it came to social skills as I got older, so I understand what people mean about that.  This often really is the case when people are homeschooled, until they get out into the world a little more.  I was thankful to be involved in a great youth group during high school that pretty much schooled me on the ways of the world & helped me adapt, but I definitely remember times where I felt like I was lacking.

I actually love the idea of my kids being homeschooled but sadly I could never do it, I'm just not cut out for it.  I think some people have the skill, grace, & patience for that but I just know that's not me.  

notkateanymore

I find that most people who say they're qualified to homeschool their child very rarely are.

Oh and there is not agreeing to disagree when it comes to human rights. 

KateVA

Um...what....help?!? Did I just time travel back to the 1950's?

notkateanymore

KateVA said:

Um...what....help?!? Did I just time travel back to the 1950's?

Let's all get in the way back machine!!

MissyC979

Is it just me, or is it always  the same few people with over-the-top UOs?

snorticusprime

KateMW said:

KateVA said:

Um...what....help?!? Did I just time travel back to the 1950's?

Let's all get in the way back machine!!
Make sure the butler sets it for the correct year.

amberpro

Oh, on the skills thing... usually not necessary.  

Resume writing is taught.  It's called English where they teach actual writing.  The format can be googled.  

Balancing a checkbook is also taught.  It's called math.  I believe adding and subtracting with decimals is taught in 4th grade.  

For those that are unable to translate these skills, various forms of a Life Skills class is available in most high schools.  But on the whole, those things aren't necessary as a class within themselves.  

I'm feeling a little combative today.  I'm usually a pretty neutral poster ..

KateVA

Chillpr said:

My UO:



Example: if someone is against gay-marriage they're automatically labeled homophobic or ignorant..where's the tolerance of a different view?

To answer your question, there is no tolerance because your opinion is fucking wrong.

golfingdarwinfish

KateMW said:

KateVA said:

Um...what....help?!? Did I just time travel back to the 1950's?

Let's all get in the way back machine!!

I'm sort of scared right now. Maybe it's travel related motion sickness.

KateVA

@heaven### - I can't find your original post but I think what you are saying is a pretty sweeping generalization. We moved from the big city and top schools (dc area) to the beach where we could afford a house. But it's not just about affording the house, it was about me being able to stay home and our desire to live a quieter life in a smaller town. So our local schools aren't as good, at least on paper, because they encompass a much larger socioeconomic range. It's something I do worry about but my kids teachers are great, I'm involved and they are thriving.

KateVA

And fwiw, I grew up in rural nh with 'bad schools' (of the 180 kids in my senior class, 120 graduated. So statistically it looks bad but those kids needed to work so they switched to night school or got jobs. Or become drug addicts.....). But anyway, the top students did great and went on to top colleges. There are dedicated teachers and motivated students in all schools.

azmama20

ColeRose said:

Chillpr said:

I definitely went off topic and was distracted several times.... To get back, there is a double standard to the word "tolerance".

But none of your examples showed anything other than oppression. Tolerant to me means allowing everyone to live and do their thing regardless of sex, race, religion, sexual orientation. Messing with that is morally and ethically wrong.

I think you may have been going somewhere when you brought up religion. For example, I'm Christian and believe in God and that Jesus was the son of God. I have many Jewish friends and they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. We agree to disagree, we are tolerant and respectful of each other's opinions on this subject. I am not going to berate someone of a different religion for believing something other than what I believe. I think this vastly different than some of the social issues you brought up.

On that same topic, as a Christian, the bible says homosexuality is a sin. HOWEVER, I know that it is not my place to judge or dictate someone's lifestyle choice any more than it is to question someone who gets a divorce (also not "allowed" by biblical standards). I leave that up to God and for him to judge right and wrong. I don't participate in votes regarding gay marriage, etc because again, not my place.

greenbeanqueen

@amberpro‌ I get what you're saying about job now, that is why I asked. I believe teaching is a calling and many people get into the profession for the wrong reasons.

 @KateMW‌ That many are unqualified is the reason I say there should be a test or some sort of qualifications. 

 My thoughts on the matter are that I can provide my children with a quality education using an accredited curriculum knowing that I am meeting their specific educational needs whether my children have slight learning disabilities or have extra needs such as academic giftedness, where in a school setting many times both ends of the spectrum are pushed to the side to meet the needs of the "many" to get those scores. Many public schools goals boil down to "scores". If my child was severely LD I would not feel comfortable teaching them and would illicit outside help. My children will be fine socially because they will participate in extra curricular such as dance, martial arts, sports, AWANAs and other community activities. They will be well rounded and I will ensure that. The will be prepared for college or for life, whichever their choice. They will hold jobs in high school like I did to help provide for their "fun" times. 

 As for the gay marriage thing, I'm not sure how it got brought in to all this, but I am getting to the point in life that I dont really care who gets married. It doesnt affect me or my marriage in any way. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He also said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." People who want to pick and choose portions of the Bible to justify hate toward people need to get a grip. You dont have to agree with Gay marriage, or like it or whatever but it doesnt take anything away from your marriage. God will judge all sin when it is His time. As for me I will live for Him and show love as He would. People seem to forget that Jesus dined with and resided with the "scum" of His day. Let people live their lives.

edited for word wall

azmama20

greenbeanqueen said:

 As for the gay marriage thing, I'm not sure how it got brought in to all this, but I am getting to the point in life that I dont really care who gets married. It doesnt affect me or my marriage in any way. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He also said "Judge not, lest ye be judged." People who want to pick and choose portions of the Bible to justify hate toward people need to get a grip. You dont have to agree with Gay marriage, or like it or whatever but it doesnt take anything away from your marriage. God will judge all sin when it is His time. As for me I will live for Him and show love as He would. People seem to forget that Jesus dined with and resided with the "scum" of His day. Let people live their lives.

This is exactly where I stand. Not my place to judge. I can disagree with personal choices, but I am not going to condemn you for choosing one thing over another.

azmama20

@colerose, see above post quoting GBQ. That's what I meant. 

canicksmom

Pretend I quote treed* @ColeRose‌. I'm just going to leave this here.

https://youtu.be/eD52OlkKfNs

I am on mobile, so I don’t know how the link will show up. It's a West Wing mic drop re: The Bible.

*I use my public school edumacation to invent new verbs.

azmama20

ColeRose said:

OKAY I WILL USE THE ABORTION EXAMPLE K? Personally, for myself, I am pro-life. Fortunately, I have never been in the situation of finding myself pregnant due to rape, incest, birth control failure, lack of birth control, so my opinion is already skewed. Just because I am personally pro-life does not mean I am for a pro-life society. I believe we should be a pro-choice society where woman are given the option of what to do what their bodies. Fuck, I don't want women to have to resort to back alley abortions again, we've come too far for that to ever happen again. That is tolerance.

This is how I feel too. Am I sad about unborn babies being aborted? Yes. Is it my decision? No. Not my place to decide or to condemn someone for making that choice. If it's a sin, they will be judged accordingly when that time comes.

lifesaverz

rfred20 said:

ColeRose said:

Chillpr said:

I definitely went off topic and was distracted several times.... To get back, there is a double standard to the word "tolerance".

But none of your examples showed anything other than oppression. Tolerant to me means allowing everyone to live and do their thing regardless of sex, race, religion, sexual orientation. Messing with that is morally and ethically wrong.

I think you may have been going somewhere when you brought up religion. For example, I'm Christian and believe in God and that Jesus was the son of God. I have many Jewish friends and they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. We agree to disagree, we are tolerant and respectful of each other's opinions on this subject. I am not going to berate someone of a different religion for believing something other than what I believe. I think this vastly different than some of the social issues you brought up.

On that same topic, as a Christian, the bible says homosexuality is a sin. HOWEVER, I know that it is not my place to judge or dictate someone's lifestyle choice any more than it is to question someone who gets a divorce (also not "allowed" by biblical standards). I leave that up to God and for him to judge right and wrong. I don't participate in votes regarding gay marriage, etc because again, not my place.

yeah pretty much this.  My own personal beliefs go along with what the Bible says, but I don't put that on other people at ALL, nor does that affect my feelings for people who are gay.  Many of my best friends in the world are gay & I fully love & accept them, & support them.  Sure my beliefs are different than theirs, but who cares?  They're called "personal" beliefs for a reason, I don't let that interfere with anything, nor would I put ever put my beliefs on someone else, & they know that. 

 I've counseled gay & transgendered individuals/couples, & I've loved it, I have zero judgement towards them & genuinely want the best for them.  And you know, if the law gets passed to where LGBT people can marry, I would not be sad, I'd be happy for them.  Sure I can't personally go vote because it would go against my own conscience, but I'm just glad like rfred said that it's not up to me to make the decision on what is right or wrong.  As far as I'm concerned all my job ever is as a counselor & a human being is to love people wherever they're at, & whether we agree/disagree means literally zero when it comes to my ability/desire to care about someone.

ETA: spelling

northport6

Sh*t-stirring alert!  This isn't directed at anybody in particular, but I get tiiiiiiired of the bible being picked apart to make arguments.

So, I'm Jewish (and also a broken record about it, apparently) and in Hebrew school we obviously talked about kosher law quite a bit.  Since we're into taking Leviticus super literally, let's have a review of everything Leviticus tells us not to do that I'm sure the bible-thumping, anti-gay marriage crowd definitely follows because they wouldn't want to be hypocritical while damning others' "lifestyle choices".

Let's start off easy in Leviticus 11: it says you can't eat anything that chews cud and has cloven hoofs.  Like cows and pigs.  It also says you can't have shellfish.  Bummer.  It also says you can't eat anything that is on four paws.  So, animals.  Vegetarianism: biblically approved!  It also says you can't eat anything that creeps. So, like, escargot.  In the same passage it specifically mentions no eating birds of pretty much every feather.

You also can't wear cotton-poly blends, according to Leviticus.  And you have to keep your head covered.  And you can't rend your clothes (unless you're mourning) so PLEASE don't buy distressed jeans. Men can't shave.  No tattoos.  You can't sow a field with more than one kind of thing, so forget your backyard box garden and your flower beds.

And, this isn't in Leviticus but I'm sure Maimonides said it somewhere in the Mishnah: Stop cherrypicking to make your points. He probably said it better, though.  

Don't tell me not to get judgmental, either: all the verses about not being judgmental are in the new testament of the Christian bible. 

blainethetrain

SweetSouthernMomma08 said:

amberpro said:

Oh, on the skills thing... usually not necessary.  

Resume writing is taught.  It's called English where they teach actual writing.  The format can be googled.  

---
I have stayed out until this and only this. No English is NOT enough. No googling résumé format is NOT enough. You need to be taught these skills. English has changed dramatically since I was in school. It continues to change and resume protocols are not the same. But google wont tell you those things. This needs to be taught in college.

It isn't as valuable to be taught in HS.

How has English changed since you were in school?

amberpro

SweetSouthernMomma08 said:

Oh, on the skills thing... usually not necessary.  

Resume writing is taught.  It's called English where they teach actual writing.  The format can be googled.  

--- I have stayed out until this and only this. No English is NOT enough. No googling résumé format is NOT enough. You need to be taught these skills. English has changed dramatically since I was in school. It continues to change and resume protocols are not the same. But google wont tell you those things. This needs to be taught in college. It isn't as valuable to be taught in HS.

How as English changed dramatically?  I'm genuinely curious.  

I recently created a new resume.  I googled, downloaded, filled in the blanks.  My mother is the vice president of a large company.  She is continuously hiring people, and this is exactly what she suggested.  

ETA: And when I ask, I mean since you or I have been in school.  Not like "thou art" kind of changes .

azmama20

Heaven802002 said:

I call BS on the people saying they don't go out and vote on things like gay marriage and abortion if they are against them.

This is the beauty of voting anonymously in our country -- You can vote for something, vote against it, or not vote on it at all and not have to answer to anyone for it.

I think for you to come out and say you call BS on it is intentionally stirring the pot though. If we are lying about it, then we are also sinning, and yet again it's not anyone's place to judge.

Ktrue85

So I just got here. What are the hot topics?

azmama20

@ktrue85 Education and political correctness.

northport6

@ktrue85 I think I just snorted some hummus through my nose.

greenbeanqueen

@amberpro‌ Quote tree died. How as English changed dramatically?  I'm genuinely curious.  

I recently created a new resume.  I googled, downloaded, filled in the blanks.  My mother is the vice president of a large company.  She is continuously hiring people, and this is exactly what she suggested.  

English hasn't changed. The way "English" is taught has been. They try to lump grammar, reading, and writing into one block and don't give enough time to address all three. So teachers choose to focus on the more pressing subject, reading for example, and the rest is left out because we have all these "standards" to meet. Clearly they aren't being met thus the problem with education.