Controversial topics

LaxMOM44

So our wonderful neighbours have just adopted a baby girl three weeks younger than C. They are a gay couple so I invited the dadon mat leave (pat leave) to our local moms group. Well I mentioned this in my moms group and the topic of how to talk to your children about different family dynamics came up. One mom said her biggest nightmare is that her child will be a bully towards children with two same sex parents because her IL's are quite vocal about their disapproving of same sex couples raising kids. I obviously don't want DD to bully anyone

These are good friends of ours so I imagine C will be friends with their little girl. I would hope she would stick up for her friend if kids were being mean. I was wondering at what age you talk to kids about these things. I also have a gay sister so this will come up. Do you wait for the child to ask? How would you explain why some kids have two moms/dads, one mom/dad etc.

Just looking for opinions here, I'd like to see what other people think.

Also now I'm terrified of raising a bully.

jayro10

One of DH's sisters is a lesbian. She was married to a man a long time ago and they had a son, who is now 9. Currently, my SIL and her son and SIL's partner all live together (they just recently moved in together.)

SIL never had a "coming out" announcement to the family or anything. After she and her husband split and she started hanging out with women who were openly gay, and then spending the night with them and going on trips, we all just figured it out. So the other grandkids on DH's side have never known different, since they're young, and to my knowledge they've never asked why their aunt is with another woman.

If and when my LO asks why her aunt or anyone else is with someone of the same sex, we will just tell her it's because that's who they love. Just like mommy and daddy are together because we love each other. IMO, there doesn't need to be a big deal made about it, because love is love. Maybe that's very simple minded of me, but that's what I believe.

Boo0512

My children will be raised Christian and because of that they will be taught how homosexuality is viewed in a Biblical sense. This includes that you are supposed to love your neighbor, be kind to others, and not judge anyone "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

My religious beliefs shape my thoughts and feelings about the world. This includes teaching my children to be kind and loving dispite your differences.

I too am afraid of having a child that is a bully. If they are I'm going jack them up, big time. I personally will probably wait for my child to ask me about gay couples/parents and discuss it at that point.

surpriseaddition

We had 2 guys move in next to us when my kids were younger, and the great thing about kids is that they are born without preconceived notions from society. Everything they experience in their lives is "normal" and they noticed that most people lived with moms and dads....but they never really questioned anything. The biggest influence on kids is how you react. That is how these biases are passed along. Years later, my DD1who is 15 has a friend who has recently accepted, I'm not sure if that's the right term, or discovered, he is gay. She is completely unphased by this. I do think the world is changing and becoming more inclusive. Just think about that post someone put awhile back about the biracial Cheerios commercial. They interviewed kids and the kids couldn't understand why some people thought it was controversial. Kids are 2 generations removed from IL and your own parents. Parents' beliefs and attitudes are more likely what your child....and the other child in the play group will accept versus grandparents.

TradeMama

We had next door neighbors who were lesbians with a daughter the same age as my middle son (I think he was 4 when we moved there). It was always NBD to him. I think once he asked the little girl where her dad was, which was awkward, but we generally told him it was ok to love boys or girls, that everyone was different.

ILoveSnacks

I figure I will just tell her that families come in all varieties. Some kids have 2 mommies or 2 daddies or stepparents or they are raised by grandparents. We'll go from there.

Hopefully she will be compassionate enough not to bully and I will be wise enough to handle the situation well if someone tells me she has teased another kid.

jerseygirl81

ILoveSnacks said:

I figure I will just tell her that families come in all varieties. Some kids have 2 mommies or 2 daddies or stepparents or they are raised by grandparents. We'll go from there.

Same. It's come up a fair amount recently (family types, not necessarily same-sex couples, specifically), and we just go through the lists of possibilities. Yes, M only has a mom and no dad. Some people only have a dad. Some people have two moms, etc. etc. Our main emphasis has been on the fact that you can CHOOSE to marry whoever you want.

Kissimi21

Children aren't born discriminating against others.  They learn that from their environment.  If you raise her to accept others for their differences, and she sees you treat your neighbours like any other couple/family, she will grow up to do the same.

It can be hard to keep your ILs in line, but it can be done.  My stepfather is racist.  He makes racist comments and tells off color jokes, and thinks it's normal.  When DS1 was born, I told him that I would not allow DS to be exposed to racism and that he would not be allowed to be part of DS's life if he could not respect that.  DS1 is 2.5 now and my stepdad has managed to mind his manners around him. 

MrsM1111

All of the above. I also have a gay brother and know that it will come up at some point because of that. Not one person is less than the other because of who s/he loves.

emmy236

I know that I would shutter at some of the stuff my grandparents would say. I had known from my parents, school, Sesame Street, etc to love everyone and be kind and disliking someone for their differences was bad. Odds are our kids will learn the same principals like we did.

LaxMOM44

Not to rock the boat but as much as we teach our children to be kind and accepting, what if their friends are bullies. I would never allow my child to be mean to another child however if her peers are all making fun of a kid I am afraid that peer pressure and the need to be accepted will make her join in or at least sit idly by.

I will do my best to raise te kid of person who will stand up for what is right and to turn her back on mean people however my parents tried to raise me as a goo person yet I was a mean girl in school because I wanted to fit in with a group of girls that were mean.

As for teaching her specifically about different families, I like pp's opinions about saying you love who you love and you make a family around that. And since gay marriage is legal here she will likely attend my sister's wedding one day so I can explain everything then if she has questions.

When my older sister explained why my other sister doesn't live "with a daddy" to my nephew he commented that if you marry who you love the most he wanted to marry his younger brother.....adorable!!!!

Boo0512

Shantxtell said:

Boo0512 said:

My children will be raised Christian and because of that they will be taught how homosexuality is viewed in a Biblical sense. This includes that you are supposed to love your neighbor, be kind to others, and not judge anyone "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

My religious beliefs shape my thoughts and feelings about the world. This includes teaching my children to be kind and loving dispite your differences.

I too am afraid of having a child that is a bully. If they are I'm going jack them up, big time. I personally will probably wait for my child to ask me about gay couples/parents and discuss it at that point.

Genuinely curious- not trying to debate or argue- will you teach your child that homosexuality is a sin?

Well I wouldn't doubt if this did start a debate so I will just say that I'm sorry If I offend anyone but I'm going to answer this question as honestly and respectfully as I can.

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. So, yes.

That being said I want my children to take away that all people are sinners and someone else's sins are not less or greater than another person's. There is a saying "don't judge someone because they sin differently than you" and I really believe in that.

I have friends that are gay and we've had this discussion and they understand that I care about them and that I don't view myself as being better than them.

I want to raise children that are kind and respectful to people even if they have a difference of opinion/lifestyle.

Edited for spelling

LaxMOM44

@Boo0512 I think you have a great take on what the bible says. I am not religious but I think you answered that honestly and I would never flame you for your beliefs.

I believe that children should always wear the snow suits that make them look like stars because they can't lower their arms....just trying to keep the tone light lol.

Thank for your honesty!!!!

RoxZ32

laxminavkar said:

@Boo0512 I think you have a great take on what the bible says. I am not religious but I think you answered that honestly and I would never flame you for your beliefs.

I believe that children should always wear the snow suits that make them look like stars because they can't lower their arms....just trying to keep the tone light lol.

Thank for your honesty!!!!

Agreed! (About Boo's honest answer AND the snowsuits)

1and1is3

Boo0512 said:

Shantxtell said:

Boo0512 said:

My children will be raised Christian and because of that they will be taught how homosexuality is viewed in a Biblical sense. This includes that you are supposed to love your neighbor, be kind to others, and not judge anyone "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

My religious beliefs shape my thoughts and feelings about the world. This includes teaching my children to be kind and loving dispite your differences.

I too am afraid of having a child that is a bully. If they are I'm going jack them up, big time. I personally will probably wait for my child to ask me about gay couples/parents and discuss it at that point.

Genuinely curious- not trying to debate or argue- will you teach your child that homosexuality is a sin?

Well I wouldn't doubt if this did start a debate so I will just say that I'm sorry If I offend anyone but I'm going to answer this question as honestly and respectfully as I can.

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. So, yes.

That being said I want my children to take away that all people are sinners and someone else's sins are not less or greater than another person's. There is a saying "don't judge someone because they sin differently than you" and I really believe in that.

I have friends that are gay and we've had this discussion and they understand that I care about them and that I don't view myself as being better than them.

I want to raise children that are kind and respectful to people even if they have a difference of opinion/lifestyle.

Edited for spelling

Boo, this is a wonderful response.

Boo0512

I'm glad that my views came across the way I hoped. I feel like often my beliefs result in me being labeled as a hateful bigot which is hard.

CNJ4EVA

LO is biracial. I hope that being in a mixed family will teach her not to think twice about people who are different, regardless of how they differ.

I agree that bigotry is taught and she certainly isn't going to learn it from DH and I, nor anyone else if we can help it.

snowgirl427

Shantxtell said:

Boo0512 said:

I'm glad that my views came across the way I hoped. I feel like often my beliefs result in me being labeled as a hateful bigot which is hard.

I respect your answer.
Edit for clarity

I do as we'll. My sister is gay and married. I will bring LO up to understand that everyone is different and deserves the same love and respect. I am worried about bullying but I will do my best to teach LO to treat others how he wants to be treated.

I won't lie. I am a Christian but I believe that one is born gay And believing that means that God created a gay person that way specifically, just like I'm not. what I know is that I love my sister, i love her wife, and they are two of the best people I know. They are as godly (and probably more so) than many who call them Christians.

jedimindtrick

Little late to this thread... DH saw a really great report on tv the other day... The reporter was asking people "do you think being gay is a choice, or are they born that way?" A lot of people said they felt it was a choice, to which the reporter replied "when did you choose to be straight?" They had no answers and said, "you know what, that's a really good point."
I am not a religious person, but I don't believe people "choose" to be gay. So if that's the case, God made them that way. And He must have a reason for doing so. Not trying to stir the pot, just sharing my beliefs.

Boo0512

@NJAZgirl I personally don't believe people choose to be gay. I view it more as a temptation and people choose as to how they respond to it. For people who do not believe in Christianity this does not apply which I totally get.

However, if someone says they are Christian and that they follow the Bible there isn't really any way around it. The Bible is very clear with how homosexuality is viewed in the Christian religion. There are numerous Bible verses that discuss it. Again, if you don't believe in Christianity, that won't matter to you.

I'm not trying to come across as preachy but I just wanted to clarify that I personally don't believe that being gay is a choice. In so many cases it would be easier to be straight so it wouldn't make sense to choose that path.

LaxMOM44

I'm also not religious but god also made teenagers horny and then said that premarital sex is a sin. In fact sex without the intention to procreate is a sin. ( I could be wrong it's been a while since Sunday school). I think the point is we are all born with the capacity to sin and it's the process of trying not to and asking for forgiveness when you do that is important...according to my small amount of catholic education.

Anyways I think if God made gay people gay, it's just like he made everyone with some temptation.

That being said of a religion said I was a bad person for loving someone I probably wouldn't believe in that religion but that would be my perogative.

I think boo's take on how to live in harmony with people who's views you don't agree with is a great one.

Boo0512

^ pretty close to this.

LaxMOM44

Yes it seems we had the same thought.

pnutg

Boo0512 said:

My children will be raised Christian and because of that they will be taught how homosexuality is viewed in a Biblical sense. This includes that you are supposed to love your neighbor, be kind to others, and not judge anyone "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

My religious beliefs shape my thoughts and feelings about the world. This includes teaching my children to be kind and loving dispite your differences.

I too am afraid of having a child that is a bully. If they are I'm going jack them up, big time. I personally will probably wait for my child to ask me about gay couples/parents and discuss it at that point.

This 100%.

Boo0512

To me temptation is not a choice. The Christian religion teaches that the devil tempts us in an attempt to pull us away from God. Therefore, being tempted is not a sin, it's how you respond to it that determines if it becomes a sin.

ETA: @Shantxtell

ILoveSnacks

Boo, you sound like an intelligent, rational person. Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts. So many people, of all beliefs, don't.

LaxMOM44

ILoveSnacks said:

Boo, you sound like an intelligent, rational person. Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts. So many people, of all beliefs, don't.

Agree 100% in fact if LO ever wants me to explain the bibles take on the situation, I'm going to use yours

Boo0512

laxminavkar said:

ILoveSnacks said:

Boo, you sound like an intelligent, rational person. Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts. So many people, of all beliefs, don't.

Agree 100% in fact if LO ever wants me to explain the bibles take on the situation, I'm going to use yours

Thank you, I really appreciate that. It is very difficult to explain my beliefs because no matter what I know I'm going to be hurting/offending someone.

I really don't want to hurt anyone. However, my faith is very important to me and I believe I have to follow through with it even when it's not the easy or popular thing to do.

LaxMOM44

Boo0512 said:

I really don't want to hurt anyone. However, my faith is very important to me and I believe I have to follow through with it even when it's not the easy or popular thing to do.

I think this is the same argument that homosexuals are making. They don't want to hurt anyone, but they have to follow their hearts even if it's not the easy or popular thing to do.

Boo0512

laxminavkar said:

Boo0512 said:

I really don't want to hurt anyone. However, my faith is very important to me and I believe I have to follow through with it even when it's not the easy or popular thing to do.

I think this is the same argument that homosexuals are making. They don't want to hurt anyone, but they have to follow their hearts even if it's not the easy or popular thing to do.

I can see that completely. I'm not the moral compass of the world. I know that I can't force people to believe what I believe and that's ok. People have differences of opinion and that's just the way it is.

LaxMOM44

Oh that wasn't meant as a criticism on you, I just had an intelligent thought and they don't come often so I wanted to share.

Boo0512

Haha! I didn't take it as a criticism, I was just responding sorry if it came off as defensive. I really didn't mean it that way.

jedimindtrick

Boo0512 said:

To me temptation is not a choice. The Christian religion teaches that the devil tempts us in an attempt to pull us away from God. Therefore, being tempted is not a sin, it's how you respond to it that determines if it becomes a sin.

ETA: @Shantxtell

But by giving into the devil's temptation of homosexuality, they are making a choice to be gay, and are therefore sinners?

Here's my viewpoint, and maybe it's because I'm a science teacher, but I don't find it healthy or accurate to view sexuality as temptation or sin. Heterosexual or homosexual. Sexuality is biological. It's an instinct. Just like eating (even cheetos). We have that drive in order to further the species. As all of us here have done.
For whatever reason, some people's biological instinct is different. Maybe it's evolutionary (and no I don't want to debate that, lol). I don't know exactly why it's different, but it is. And it's not my place to judge it. Scientists have seen homosexual behaviors in certain other animal species as well. So I def feel there is a biological reason for it.

Boo0512

@NJAZgirl I can understand why you feel that way. Clearly we don't agree but you have the right to your own opinion. My mother was a Biology teacher for many years and I majored in Psychology and minored in Sociology so I have been exposed to this discussion many times and in many ways.

I still have my view and I don't expect everyone to understand it or respect it.

mamatohne

I was raised in a pretty religious upbringing, I know a fair amount about the bible. I have a lot of gay friends, & I work with a lot of gay people! I have had many discussions with my parents who think "its just wrong"! I live in Washington state where gay marriage is legal. And the debate will never be over. My view is" live and let live" and that is what I will teach my children! What might be right for me is probably not right for my neighbor. I will teach my children to follow their heart and be open minded. One of the co workers I have does not consider herself gay, she simply fell in love with a woman. And that's truly as deep as the choose or not choose subject should go. They simply are! On another note, the bible has 10 commandments and one of those "top 10 rules for humanity" is thou shall not JUDGE, no where on there does it say thou shall not fall in love with some one of the same sex! And not toStart another debate did any one Mention the multiple gay couples in the bible! Ruth and Naomi and David and Johnathan! 

SandiaPinaMama

DS1 and I talk about these things now..."look, that guy has two dads-how cool is that?" "see that little girl? Her skin is darker than yours, isn't she pretty?" Research indicates that toddlers are noticing such things, so we just go ahead and briefly mention it, especially if I notice him staring. BTW, he's 2.

SandiaPinaMama

Okay, well now that I've read the other responses, there's a while lot of you rock up here in this ribbon. Makes me wanna sing kumbyah (sp?). Group hug!

Truly, I have so much respect for you all right now.

Boo0512

@tarynleann out of curiosity what makes you believe that David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi were homosexual couples? My understanding was that David and Jonathan were very good friends. My understanding of Ruth and Naomi was that they were mother and daughter-in-law that stayed together as friends/ family after their husbands died. Where does it say that they were lovers/couples?

I'd also love to hear what other Christian commenters have to say about Romans 1:18-32 (or just 24-32). Romans is from the New Testament. It was written by the apostle Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles (or non-Jews). Paul is a key player in the New Testament as he wrote 14 of its books. I'm going to xp this question to the other post as well.

snowgirl427

watermelon mom said:

DS1 and I talk about these things now..."look, that guy has two dads-how cool is that?" "see that little girl? Her skin is darker than yours, isn't she pretty?" Research indicates that toddlers are noticing such things, so we just go ahead and briefly mention it, especially if I notice him staring. BTW, he's 2.

I think this is a great way to handle it with a two year old!!

mamatohne

@boo0512 I don't know about you but this sounds a lot like how the bible describes the relationship between married couple. In fact know a few different straight couples myself who use this passage as wedding vows. Just food for thought! 

Ruth chapter 1 "But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.”

mamatohne

That's kind of the point thou right? What has been translated out or lost in translation? I don't believe in organized religion because you are being taught someone else's interpretations of a book that was written thousands of years ago in a dead language! @nooniedee that is your interpretation of the passage, who's to say your right? No one! its what YOU believe is right for yourself and your family! My interpretation is different.