- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
2nd Trimester
S/O Pro-life or Pro-choice thread
I posted this near the bottom of that thread but at the suggestion of Calinsbride, I'm making it a new post.
I was just curious, since we were able to have such an intelligent discussion, if you're pro-life, how do u feel about capital punishment, i.e., the death penalty. Although I asked for input from the pro-lifers, I guess it'd be beneficial to hear from all.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: S/O Pro-life or Pro-choice thread
I thought it was an excellent question.
I'm pro-choice and I have to say I'm not pro-death penalty. The justice system is not flawless and there are so many variables and in some instances I think the bastards need to suffer and that jail itself should be harder than it is. You have a 3 strikes thing the US that we do not have here in Canada and well Prison Reform is highly needed I think in both of our countries.?
Haha I just posted the same thread. Must of been doing it at the same time.
I am pro-choice and against the death penalty!
i suppose i am not morally opposed to it- but the death penalty convictions seem to be costlier to tax payers than life in prison, and i wonder which is worse- knowing you are going to die or rotting in jail for the rest of your life. Especially if you are a child killer/child rapist. Life in jail would probably be bigger hell (although I guess they would be in solitary).
I am not against it... i just don't know if i think it's the 'worst' punishment for some of the heinous crimes, and i don't know how being a deathrow inmate, or a prisoner for life pans out.
Does this make sense?
Proud mama to a boys- 6/17/09 - a girl 2/23/11- and a boy 8/20/12
I'm against the death penalty in practice, because I think there are too many vairables. Plus, innocent people are put to death and then evidence is later found proving their innocence. Not okay. Plus the system is very, very biased--racist, etc. A black person is more likely to be put to death than a white person who committed the same crimes.
HOWEVER. . .some peoples' services are no longer required on the earth. They are a drain on society and don't deserve to live or deserve a second chance. Plus, they are so deranged that it may actually be an act of mercy to just put them out of their misery. Death isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person.
So here's the hangup I've always had...and it doesn't necessarily speak to my opinion on the subject, it's just something that sort of bothers me...
For those who are against abortion for religious reasons, I don't get how you could be pro-life. Taking a life is taking a life right? If you believe life starts at conception or before, then a life is a life. That doesn't change because a person commited a heinous crime. The commandment is thou shall not kill. Not thou shall not kill except... It's deciding when and how somebody dies, period. And if you're pro-life because of religious reasons, I want to understand how you can be okay with that.
?And that country is what????? Never Never Land????
The difference is that there's always a chance you'll be let out, and with a BIG, HUGE settlement to help get you back on your feet and try to make up for the pain and suffering.
VERY interesting idea about capital punishment not always needing to include death, though. . .very interesting.
The United States, for example. Last we checked, we have the constitutional right to a trial of our peers. I haven't heard of anyone condemned to death row who didn't have a trial. That's not true in a lot of places in this world.
The problem is that the Bible does actually advocate for the death penalty. . .in certain situations its actually commanded.
The quote "an eye for an eye" is actually from the Bible.
Thou shalt not kill is actually more like, thou shalt not murder. . .
Love the comment about if you are Pro-Life how can you be Pro-Death Penalty. LOVE that it sums up the hypocrisy. If you are Pro-LIFE then you inherently must be against the DEATH penalty or else your arguments for being Pro-LIfe are rendered absolutely moot.
Perhaps the better terminology would be Anti-Abortion (which sounds less PR savvy of course) and Pro-Death Penalty.?
?
I'm sure if you look at the track record for over-turned cases after the fact or false convictions in the US you would be shocked to learn that getting a FAIR trial in the US is a hard thing to come by. Factor in the extreme polarization between rich and poor in your country and as someone else pointed out the difficulty for people of colour or minority to be properly represented compared to a white person.... I think I would take my chances on a trial say in Sweden or Denmark before EVER choosing to have a trial in the US.?
Actually the Pro-life "platform" is against Death Penalty/Euthanasia/etc. Some people just misuse the term, just like lots of Pro-choice people don't actually want women to have a choice when the baby is 8mo gestation & healthy.
Umm what are you saying about Pro-Choice people and 8mo Gestation?? You can't perform an abortion then.
My BIL works for a very famous doctor here in Canada who is responsible for Abortion Rights across Canada. There is a definite cut off point as to when the procedure can be done up until. If you think that doctors are aborting fetus' at the 8 month mark you are being fed an absolutely B*llSh*t sensationalized story to manipulate you.?
I look at the overturning of false convictions (for example, by DNA evidence) as plus for our justice system, not a negative. I support entities such as the Innocence Project and I'm very aware of their work. I understand that for some people, their issue with the death penalty is not a moral one as much as an "in practice" type of issue - a belief that we aren't able to perfectly ensure that only the guilty die. Then there are others who think the death penalty is immoral because it's killing a life. I respect and understand the former argument (yours I think?), but reject the latter. As much as I understand the argument that you seem to be having here, and respect it, your arguments are not enough for me personally to conclude that we should abolish the death penalty in our country.
not to sound confrontational, but you don't consider rape a heinous crime??? Try telling that to someone who has been raped, or the fact that there are serial rapists that torture women leaving them never the same. Or what about someone who rapes little kids? Treason I see, but then i think of 9/11, and if there were people in our country who orchestrated an event like that- without whom it could not be pulled off- does that make them any less responsible than the men on the plane?
sorry- again not trying to argue, but to point out that there is a reason capital punishment gets applied to crimes besides premeditated murder
Proud mama to a boys- 6/17/09 - a girl 2/23/11- and a boy 8/20/12
Yeah, that's a good point. However I also have a feeling that even if you get let out, people will still think you did it no matter what, you know? It's just impossible to know what actually happened sometimes. But I think if we had some sort of caning (like in Asian countries where you get smacked with a bamboo cane) maybe there'd be less petty crime out there at least. I mean, some people think jail is cool, but being caned in public? Not cool!
I can get with that Calinsbride. The Bible is subject to interpretation and I won't argue with the interpretation you have or receive. But imagine if we really lived life like that - an eye for an eye. You steal from me, so I break into your house without fear of retaliation or punishment. I sleep with your husband, you sleep with mine.
I don't believe one commandment trumps any of the others. But again, your comments are most definitely something to think about.
Exactly.?
Again, abortion kills an innocent life by definition. A convicted murderer is not innocent life. There's nothing hypocritical there.
I do hear you on the problem with these terms though. A person who is pro choice is not anti life. A person who is pro life isn't necessarily anti death penalty - so maybe that term should really be pro-innocent-life. A person who is pro choice isn't pro abortion.
Huh? Go back and read what I said. I never wrote that rapes are not heinous.
Proud mama to a boys- 6/17/09 - a girl 2/23/11- and a boy 8/20/12
So now we should poll the people who are prolife and anti-death penalty- that hypothetically, if they could time travel, and Hitler's mother was considering an abortion- what would they advise her to do?
Proud mama to a boys- 6/17/09 - a girl 2/23/11- and a boy 8/20/12
I think the semantics are very important in these issues. I am a supporter of choice because I think people should be able to clearly and reasonably articulate their beliefs in a safe environment. Unfortunately, legislating morality issues (which this is ultimately) doesn't allow that to happen.
Prevention is the key. Unfortunately, many people who are against abortion are also against birth control. Again, this is counter-intuitive. It also places much of the responsibility on the women to abstain. There are many double standards that still exist between the sexes especially when it comes to sex and responsibility for birth control. Abstinence based human sexuality programs are not the answer. Education and information is power. There are other choices out there to prevent pregnancy and schools should be given the mandate to make them known - with sensitivity of course.?
That would be her choice to make. Who he becomes has nothing to do with it.?
"Even though there's no gestational limits in Canada, over 90% of abortions are done in the first trimester, only 2-3% are done after 16 weeks, and no doctor does abortions past 20 or 21 weeks except for compelling health or genetic reasons."
THERE ARE NO ABORTION LAWS IN CANADA--PERIOD. Just because doctors are not performing them, doesn't mean that it is not legal.
I think you are still misunderstanding what I wrote. I think the death penalty should be for the most heinous types of murders. To me, the death penalty is reserved for those who take a life, particularly those who take a life in the most horrendous ways possible. It doesn't mean I don't think other crimes are heinous, and I'm sure that people who are completely against the death penalty would also agree that rapes and conspiracy are heinous crimes.
Another wonderful reason to live here. Our government lets us make our own decisions about our bodies!
You clearly don't give women a lot of credit do you? I don't understand the logic about legalization or not. You can smoke pot here too and it doesn't mean everyone is turning into a coke or meth freak.
Doctors provide medical care. Abortions past 21 weeks can not be done. So they aren't. We don't legislate it because it's been determined that the government can't legislate our bodies. Pretty straightforward logic.?
no- i am just stating my opinion that those kinds of crimes, while not murders, are still as heinous as you get- in my opinion. I am not trying to come down on yours.
Proud mama to a boys- 6/17/09 - a girl 2/23/11- and a boy 8/20/12
One of Obama's main platforms is to allow late-term abortions. There are doctors who will do it, its just not done very often. Abortions past 21 weeks can be done and are done. They stick in scizzors to cut the baby's scull and then suck out its brain.
OK. But I look at it this way - if there is any incentive for a child rapist not to kill his victim during the crime, that's a good thing. If a child rapist gets the same penalty for raping his victim as he does killing him, why would he let the child live?
That was NOT one of his main platforms. He may support an expansion of options available to woman but that sounds more like hysterical sensationalization for propaganda purposes than actual platform fact.
CHOICE is CHOICE.
In Holland, euthanasia is legal as well. Did you know that statistically speaking, in countries that have greater freedoms around decisions of choice - body/life death, there are significantly reduced stats on violent crimes. Same with countries with more tolerant policies around recreational drug use.
Food for thought.?
So I should be able to choose anything? Even to murder someone?
Trust me, I didn't believe that he supported late term abortions either, because who would support that, it's monstrous, but after researching direct quotes from him and watching interviews, I have come to conclude that he is just fine with killing a full-term baby as long as its inside the mother's womb at the time of death.
And euthenasia has nothing to do with this. If someone asks to die after the reach a certain point in their illness, that's their business. No one's asking the 8 month old baby what their choice is.